Magicka Dragonknight to strong?! - PVP Build - Deadlands

Extrawelt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcEAhQdLG_s&t=303s

Build:
- 5x Burning Spellweave Frontbar with Inferno sharp
- 5x Daedric Trickery Backbar with 1h/shield powered/sturdy
- 2x Bloodspawn
- 1x Malacath
- 1x Trainee

I´m a Vampire Stage 3, for Undeath (dmg reduction) + Strike from the Shadows (spelldmg)

Food: Clockwork Citrus Filet
Race: Dunmer
Mundus: Atronarch

milllaurie

Extrawelt wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcEAhQdLG_s&t=303s

Build:
- 5x Burning Spellweave Frontbar with Inferno sharp
- 5x Daedric Trickery Backbar with 1h/shield powered/sturdy
- 2x Bloodspawn
- 1x Malacath
- 1x Trainee

I´m a Vampire Stage 3, for Undeath (dmg reduction) + Strike from the Shadows (spelldmg)

Food: Clockwork Citrus Filet
Race: Dunmer
Mundus: Atronarch

Nice build, running really similar one. I would suggest trying charged. Not only sustain is op but the damage too. Burning status overcomes Flames of oblivion in cmx easy so overperforms sharpened in overall damage (not burst tho).
Also on my double charged dw magdk I can keep up 40%+ uptime of disease and shock status effects that way. That thing is broken.

gamma71

It's not to strong I have a similar build. You out manuver your opponents and youse Los a lot. You probably are good in any thing you play.

Rhaegar75

Why not resto staff? How are you doing healing wise?

EmperorIl

gamma71 wrote: »

It's not to strong I have a similar build. You out manuver your opponents and youse Los a lot. You probably are good in any thing you play.

Agreed.....LOS>build

MEBengalsFan2001

Extrawelt wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcEAhQdLG_s&t=303s

Build:
- 5x Burning Spellweave Frontbar with Inferno sharp
- 5x Daedric Trickery Backbar with 1h/shield powered/sturdy
- 2x Bloodspawn
- 1x Malacath
- 1x Trainee

I´m a Vampire Stage 3, for Undeath (dmg reduction) + Strike from the Shadows (spelldmg)

Food: Clockwork Citrus Filet
Race: Dunmer
Mundus: Atronarch

Swap Daedric Trickery for Kynmarcher to get debuffs on targets to melt them down faster.

paulychan

i run dw swords one nirn one charged with shock and disease glyphs in that same set up

Einstein_

magDK is deffently to strong...it needed a buff before but i think ZoS can only buff/nerf stuff with a HAMMER....
so please adjsut it slightly, dont nerf it into the ground but slightly....

MEBengalsFan2001

Einstein_ wrote: »

magDK is deffently to strong...it needed a buff before but i think ZoS can only buff/nerf stuff with a HAMMER....
so please adjsut it slightly, dont nerf it into the ground but slightly....

Magika DK running plaguebreak are really strong. They are hitting you with multiple dots and if you cure you take a bit damage tick. Problem is that DOTs can stack - meaning you can get multiple stacks of Plaguebreak, Fire DoT, Poison, etc... Instead if you get hit by Fire DOT you should only have that singular fire dot until it expires before another one can be applied. Same with poison, disease, etc...

The dragonleap is a bit strong as well because the player gets a damage shield in addition to knocking/stunning the player and doing damage. Removing the damage shield and stun or knockback would make dragonleap more inline with other ultimates.

Resource regen - again this a bit to strong for stamina characters. My DK tank never runs out of stamina now. How about cutting the regen value that Posion/Fire DoT provides in half.

Whip also hits a bit harder than other similar abilities - a slight tweak to its damage would go a long way to making it more balanced.

Urzigurumash

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Einstein_ wrote: »

magDK is deffently to strong...it needed a buff before but i think ZoS can only buff/nerf stuff with a HAMMER....
so please adjsut it slightly, dont nerf it into the ground but slightly....

Magika DK running plaguebreak are really strong. They are hitting you with multiple dots and if you cure you take a bit damage tick. Problem is that DOTs can stack - meaning you can get multiple stacks of Plaguebreak, Fire DoT, Poison, etc... Instead if you get hit by Fire DOT you should only have that singular fire dot until it expires before another one can be applied. Same with poison, disease, etc...

The dragonleap is a bit strong as well because the player gets a damage shield in addition to knocking/stunning the player and doing damage. Removing the damage shield and stun or knockback would make dragonleap more inline with other ultimates.

Resource regen - again this a bit to strong for stamina characters. My DK tank never runs out of stamina now. How about cutting the regen value that Posion/Fire DoT provides in half.

Whip also hits a bit harder than other similar abilities - a slight tweak to its damage would go a long way to making it more balanced.

All I read here is "please homogenize". You're asking for StamDK to have our sustain nerfed, please. Noxious Breath's DoT has an impressive 1% chance of proccing Poisoned per tick, same for Corrosive. Venomous auto-procs on the Direct Damage, with a 3% chance per DoT tick, same value for Alchemical Poisons. A normal StamDK has no other sources of Poisoned.

Everybody is running Stage 3 Vamp, and StamDK sustain needs a nerf in particular?

Dojohoda

I should gear up my magDK for pvp. I have not pvp'd on that character since 2015 and I would stink so much that people would think DK needs a buff. Joking aside, I've been considering playing a class other than magblade for pvp.

Apologies, continue with the topic.

Rhaegar75

Too strong...nope not at all.

On par with other strong well rounded classes? yep..finally I'd say

Plaguebrake is borderline irrelevant unless you fight a zerg: BSW and defensive set of your choice will outweigh it in my opinion but still nothing overpowered

milllaurie

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Too strong...nope not at all.

On par with other strong well rounded classes? yep..finally I'd say

Plaguebrake is borderline irrelevant unless you fight a zerg: BSW and defensive set of your choice will outweigh it in my opinion but still nothing overpowered

You guys should really stay on topic 😀. Extrawelt shared a build and now you are decostructing a class 😀

Rohamad_Ali

Too strong? No. Maybe too much fun. Thank you for sharing this.

Urzigurumash

[Quoted post has been removed.]

This alone is insufficient evidence of an imbalance, because a Duel is a dream scenario for the MagDK kit, which dream scenario only occasionally arises in other forms of PvP. On my server MagDK was an excellent duelist even in patches when the class was regarded as weak in other forms of PvP.

A comparison can be made to MagSorc in Solo Queue Deathmatch. This is a dream scenario for the MagSorc kit, but, if MagSorc were adjusted to be on par with other classes in Solo Queue Deathmatch, it would become non-viable in forms of PvP where MagSorc's kit is only occasionally superlative - which even includes Group Queue Deathmatch.

Know what I mean?

Rhaegar75

My dilemma is still between 1h+shield and resto.

Any feedback or preference?

Vevvev

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

My dilemma is still between 1h+shield and resto.

Any feedback or preference?

Resto is great for sustain while one hand and shield is an amazing fallback option for extreme circumstances. I prefer the restoration staff since it restores Magicka while blocking, has great healing options, and makes room for a stronger enchantment. I did try the sword and shield but it's not my style of play and the lack of Radiating Regeneration took too long for me to get used to.

Also restoration staff returns a lot of Magicka back on heavy attacks and those attacks can't be dodged.

MEBengalsFan2001

Urzigurumash wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Einstein_ wrote: »

magDK is deffently to strong...it needed a buff before but i think ZoS can only buff/nerf stuff with a HAMMER....
so please adjsut it slightly, dont nerf it into the ground but slightly....

Magika DK running plaguebreak are really strong. They are hitting you with multiple dots and if you cure you take a bit damage tick. Problem is that DOTs can stack - meaning you can get multiple stacks of Plaguebreak, Fire DoT, Poison, etc... Instead if you get hit by Fire DOT you should only have that singular fire dot until it expires before another one can be applied. Same with poison, disease, etc...

The dragonleap is a bit strong as well because the player gets a damage shield in addition to knocking/stunning the player and doing damage. Removing the damage shield and stun or knockback would make dragonleap more inline with other ultimates.

Resource regen - again this a bit to strong for stamina characters. My DK tank never runs out of stamina now. How about cutting the regen value that Posion/Fire DoT provides in half.

Whip also hits a bit harder than other similar abilities - a slight tweak to its damage would go a long way to making it more balanced.

All I read here is "please homogenize". You're asking for StamDK to have our sustain nerfed, please. Noxious Breath's DoT has an impressive 1% chance of proccing Poisoned per tick, same for Corrosive. Venomous auto-procs on the Direct Damage, with a 3% chance per DoT tick, same value for Alchemical Poisons. A normal StamDK has no other sources of Poisoned.

Everybody is running Stage 3 Vamp, and StamDK sustain needs a nerf in particular?

You forget that you get Stamina back when you cast a magika ability. My friend runs a stamina DK and a Magika DK in PVP ; and has no issues with resources. My tank does not have an issue with resources. If you have an issue with resources, maybe it is your build.

I'm not saying remove it; maybe cut it in half or a 1/3. It needs a slight adjustment.

Urzigurumash

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Einstein_ wrote: »

magDK is deffently to strong...it needed a buff before but i think ZoS can only buff/nerf stuff with a HAMMER....
so please adjsut it slightly, dont nerf it into the ground but slightly....

Magika DK running plaguebreak are really strong. They are hitting you with multiple dots and if you cure you take a bit damage tick. Problem is that DOTs can stack - meaning you can get multiple stacks of Plaguebreak, Fire DoT, Poison, etc... Instead if you get hit by Fire DOT you should only have that singular fire dot until it expires before another one can be applied. Same with poison, disease, etc...

The dragonleap is a bit strong as well because the player gets a damage shield in addition to knocking/stunning the player and doing damage. Removing the damage shield and stun or knockback would make dragonleap more inline with other ultimates.

Resource regen - again this a bit to strong for stamina characters. My DK tank never runs out of stamina now. How about cutting the regen value that Posion/Fire DoT provides in half.

Whip also hits a bit harder than other similar abilities - a slight tweak to its damage would go a long way to making it more balanced.

All I read here is "please homogenize". You're asking for StamDK to have our sustain nerfed, please. Noxious Breath's DoT has an impressive 1% chance of proccing Poisoned per tick, same for Corrosive. Venomous auto-procs on the Direct Damage, with a 3% chance per DoT tick, same value for Alchemical Poisons. A normal StamDK has no other sources of Poisoned.

Everybody is running Stage 3 Vamp, and StamDK sustain needs a nerf in particular?

You forget that you get Stamina back when you cast a magika ability. My friend runs a stamina DK and a Magika DK in PVP ; and has no issues with resources. My tank does not have an issue with resources. If you have an issue with resources, maybe it is your build.

I'm not saying remove it; maybe cut it in half or a 1/3. It needs a slight adjustment.

I did not forget, but we're not really proccing Burning on StamDK much unless we're running Flames of Oblivion, and Cauterize is too good not to run. I do use Molten Whip but only when it's fully stacked, so not often enough to matter for Combustion.

I, however, have benefited considerably from the update to Battle Roar. This was the number one most requested and most logical change for the DK "engine".

We've been awaiting a buff to our sustain for years. Consistently sustain was our number one complaint - sure enough, it was buffed, and now both DKs are doing much better. Many of us agree that Battle Roar + Leap is what makes a DK fun to play compared to other classes. Some would say "Battle Roar helps DKs get out of situations that other classes don't get into", which may be true, but it's what gives DK a unique feel more than anything, in my opinion.

Again, everybody's running Stage 3 Vamp. It's probably a big reason why MagDK is so successful right now. If sustain passives are being cut in half then that should go for everyone.

Maybe I'm wrong about all of this here - but I feel like the massive buff to Constitution at Dark Brotherhood was partly compensation to DK for the removal of sources of dynamic Ult Gen - around which Battle Roar was initially balanced. On Xbox DKs never really had much dynamic Ult Gen, most of it was removed by the time we got the game. Constitution was then massively nerfed at Morrowind or Clockwork City and DK had big sustain problems in PvP ever since. It's been a long time coming and it's quite welcome, of course we're going to defend it tooth and nail.

gamma71

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

My dilemma is still between 1h+shield and resto.

Any feedback or preference?

I bounce back and forth between the two but always go back to resto staff. 30k rapid Regen and life giver far out weigh 1h and sheild if I'm having to block that might buy a few seconds I like to keep moving and rather use my stam for dodge rolls and break frees. One on one sheild is fine but bgs and cyrodil we're u fight multiple oponents your gonna blow thru your stam to quick. Unless your a block tank built for it.

The_Lex

I know the is post is one week old but....

Does a resto light attack (or heavy) count as direct damage for Kynmarcher's? I can never remember how it works for resto.

Rhaegar75

The_Lex wrote: »

I know the is post is one week old but....

Does a resto light attack (or heavy) count as direct damage for Kynmarcher's? I can never remember how it works for resto.

It works with trickery so I presume it will be the same for Kynmarcher

The_Lex

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

I know the is post is one week old but....

Does a resto light attack (or heavy) count as direct damage for Kynmarcher's? I can never remember how it works for resto.

It works with trickery so I presume it will be the same for Kynmarcher

I was thinking so, but Trickery says "when you deal damage" (which, to me, means any type of dmg), while Kyn says "When you deal direct damage" (which implies a certain type of damage). ZOS' tooltips are notoriously unhelpful.

Rhaegar75

The_Lex wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

I know the is post is one week old but....

Does a resto light attack (or heavy) count as direct damage for Kynmarcher's? I can never remember how it works for resto.

It works with trickery so I presume it will be the same for Kynmarcher

I was thinking so, but Trickery says "when you deal damage" (which, to me, means any type of dmg), while Kyn says "When you deal direct damage" (which implies a certain type of damage). ZOS' tooltips are notoriously unhelpful.

My interpretation is that Kyn doesn't work with DoTs but I've never used it so can't really say for sure

gariondavey

Resto attack is direct damage

angelofdeath333

Magdk need all the sustain it can get, becsuse their skills are rediculously expensive!

With stage 3 vamp Talons and deep breath is around 3,4k magicka, and engulfing is close to 3k mag. This is with 4 pieces light armor and 3 reduce cost glyphs....so no, dont nerf combustion! You have to use Charged to "abuse it", and you sacrifice ALOT of dmg by running 3 reduce cost and charged. But you kind of have to if you want good sustain.

Vevvev

angelofdeath333 wrote: »

Magdk need all the sustain it can get, becsuse their skills are rediculously expensive!

With stage 3 vamp Talons and deep breath is around 3,4k magicka, and engulfing is close to 3k mag. This is with 4 pieces light armor and 3 reduce cost glyphs....so no, dont nerf combustion! You have to use Charged to "abuse it", and you sacrifice ALOT of dmg by running 3 reduce cost and charged. But you kind of have to if you want good sustain.

Don't have to go that insane on sustain. I use a charged Flame staff with Vampire's Blood for Blood ability and it's more than enough to keep dealing damage on target. All my jewelry is infused spell damage glyphs alongside that, and in trials and dungeons I use Whip and grab all the synergies that come my way.

If I do run out for whatever reason that's what the tri-pots and resto staff back bar are for.

angelofdeath333

Vevvev wrote: »

angelofdeath333 wrote: »

Magdk need all the sustain it can get, becsuse their skills are rediculously expensive!

With stage 3 vamp Talons and deep breath is around 3,4k magicka, and engulfing is close to 3k mag. This is with 4 pieces light armor and 3 reduce cost glyphs....so no, dont nerf combustion! You have to use Charged to "abuse it", and you sacrifice ALOT of dmg by running 3 reduce cost and charged. But you kind of have to if you want good sustain.

Don't have to go that insane on sustain. I use a charged Flame staff with Vampire's Blood for Blood ability and it's more than enough to keep dealing damage on target. All my jewelry is infused spell damage glyphs alongside that, and in trials and dungeons I use Whip and grab all the synergies that come my way.

If I do run out for whatever reason that's what the tri-pots and resto staff back bar are for.

I assume we're talking about different things here. You need all that sustain, imo, if you wanna fight outnumbered in PvP. Is that for everyone? No, not at all. But you need all that sustain to be competetive with just any class in the same scenario.

Pve is easier on sustain, PvP is more intense.

Magdk can now compete in terms of sustain, and the change to combustion was well needed.

Vevvev

angelofdeath333 wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

angelofdeath333 wrote: »

Magdk need all the sustain it can get, becsuse their skills are rediculously expensive!

With stage 3 vamp Talons and deep breath is around 3,4k magicka, and engulfing is close to 3k mag. This is with 4 pieces light armor and 3 reduce cost glyphs....so no, dont nerf combustion! You have to use Charged to "abuse it", and you sacrifice ALOT of dmg by running 3 reduce cost and charged. But you kind of have to if you want good sustain.

Don't have to go that insane on sustain. I use a charged Flame staff with Vampire's Blood for Blood ability and it's more than enough to keep dealing damage on target. All my jewelry is infused spell damage glyphs alongside that, and in trials and dungeons I use Whip and grab all the synergies that come my way.

If I do run out for whatever reason that's what the tri-pots and resto staff back bar are for.

I assume we're talking about different things here. You need all that sustain, imo, if you wanna fight outnumbered in PvP. Is that for everyone? No, not at all. But you need all that sustain to be competetive with just any class in the same scenario.

Pve is easier on sustain, PvP is more intense.

Magdk can now compete in terms of sustain, and the change to combustion was well needed.

I'm just pointing out having all three jewelery glyphs be cost reduction is a bit overkill.

angelofdeath333

Vevvev wrote: »

angelofdeath333 wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

angelofdeath333 wrote: »

Magdk need all the sustain it can get, becsuse their skills are rediculously expensive!

With stage 3 vamp Talons and deep breath is around 3,4k magicka, and engulfing is close to 3k mag. This is with 4 pieces light armor and 3 reduce cost glyphs....so no, dont nerf combustion! You have to use Charged to "abuse it", and you sacrifice ALOT of dmg by running 3 reduce cost and charged. But you kind of have to if you want good sustain.

Don't have to go that insane on sustain. I use a charged Flame staff with Vampire's Blood for Blood ability and it's more than enough to keep dealing damage on target. All my jewelry is infused spell damage glyphs alongside that, and in trials and dungeons I use Whip and grab all the synergies that come my way.

If I do run out for whatever reason that's what the tri-pots and resto staff back bar are for.

I assume we're talking about different things here. You need all that sustain, imo, if you wanna fight outnumbered in PvP. Is that for everyone? No, not at all. But you need all that sustain to be competetive with just any class in the same scenario.

Pve is easier on sustain, PvP is more intense.

Magdk can now compete in terms of sustain, and the change to combustion was well needed.

I'm just pointing out having all three jewelery glyphs be cost reduction is a bit overkill.

For pve, yes.

Vevvev

angelofdeath333 wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

angelofdeath333 wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

angelofdeath333 wrote: »

Magdk need all the sustain it can get, becsuse their skills are rediculously expensive!

With stage 3 vamp Talons and deep breath is around 3,4k magicka, and engulfing is close to 3k mag. This is with 4 pieces light armor and 3 reduce cost glyphs....so no, dont nerf combustion! You have to use Charged to "abuse it", and you sacrifice ALOT of dmg by running 3 reduce cost and charged. But you kind of have to if you want good sustain.

Don't have to go that insane on sustain. I use a charged Flame staff with Vampire's Blood for Blood ability and it's more than enough to keep dealing damage on target. All my jewelry is infused spell damage glyphs alongside that, and in trials and dungeons I use Whip and grab all the synergies that come my way.

If I do run out for whatever reason that's what the tri-pots and resto staff back bar are for.

I assume we're talking about different things here. You need all that sustain, imo, if you wanna fight outnumbered in PvP. Is that for everyone? No, not at all. But you need all that sustain to be competetive with just any class in the same scenario.

Pve is easier on sustain, PvP is more intense.

Magdk can now compete in terms of sustain, and the change to combustion was well needed.

I'm just pointing out having all three jewelery glyphs be cost reduction is a bit overkill.

For pve, yes.

PvP to, but I am the ridiculous person with the 10k+ effective spell damage build. My DK is built around overwhelming force to end fights fast over battles of attrition. Also use Shattering Rocks and Burning Embers to keep myself healed while on the offensive as I'm very reliant on flame procs and Vampire's spammable for sustain. I don't like spamming Coagulating Blood for very long as you can imagine as a result.

Edit: And I think recovery glyphs would help you better than the cost reduction glyphs. Cost reduction glyphs work better on low cost abilities like Mistform and Ash Cloud due to the fact it is a flat value. Recovery can be boosted by effects and a DK making use of potions with magicka/stamina restore for the Major Intellect/Endurance is further boosting those values by 30%.