Necromancer vs other classes

XXX

How come that the necromancer class is so strong in pve, Im lvl 20 and only died once at a boss. I tried to lvl shado wblade, and I feel like that I barely do any damage died like 25 times and im only lvl 10(maybe im doing something wrong).

Vevvev

Nightblade plays differently. For starters your primary source of Major Resolve is tied to your usage of Shadow Abilities as one of the passives. This means your primary spammable, Veiled Strike, is also one of your most reliable ways of increasing your armor. Another thing is your healing abilities are very different where some require a prerequisite like casting the bow attack in melee range, hitting a target first, or killing a target that's marked. There are instant self heals like the reworked Malevolent Offering, but you'll find Nightblade does better when it engages with it's whole kit.

El_Borracho

Comparing a necro to a stamblade at Level 20 is not an accurate comparison. All nightblades are squishy little noodles when they first start out. They are heavily CP dependent for damage and survivability. Skill morphs are also how to stay alive and do damage. Finally, the rotation is one of the hardest in the game to master as its dynamic with several different timers you have to pay attention to, specifically spectral arrow and leeching strikes. You will not see real results until after you hit CP 300 in terms of damage and survivability.

With all of this, you might think nightblades, specifically stamblades, are not worth the effort. That would be wrong. They are constantly near the top of the DDs classes. While stam necros may be above them in the DD rankings, its not by much. Additionally, a lot of the top necro builds are group/synergy dependent for sustain. Nightblades do not have that problem, and if played properly, are one of the more tanky/survivable DDs out there.

One thing you will absolutely need as a stamblade is vigor. You need to do PVP to get that. I would recommend doing it now while you can still run under level 50 campaigns. Much easier to level up that skill now than later.

XXX

El_Borracho wrote: »

Comparing a necro to a stamblade at Level 20 is not an accurate comparison. All nightblades are squishy little noodles when they first start out. They are heavily CP dependent for damage and survivability. Skill morphs are also how to stay alive and do damage. Finally, the rotation is one of the hardest in the game to master as its dynamic with several different timers you have to pay attention to, specifically spectral arrow and leeching strikes. You will not see real results until after you hit CP 300 in terms of damage and survivability.

With all of this, you might think nightblades, specifically stamblades, are not worth the effort. That would be wrong. They are constantly near the top of the DDs classes. While stam necros may be above them in the DD rankings, its not by much. Additionally, a lot of the top necro builds are group/synergy dependent for sustain. Nightblades do not have that problem, and if played properly, are one of the more tanky/survivable DDs out there.

One thing you will absolutely need as a stamblade is vigor. You need to do PVP to get that. I would recommend doing it now while you can still run under level 50 campaigns. Much easier to level up that skill now than later.

I agree. It did make a big difference when I switched to necro. Nightblades are too hard for me.

VaranisArano

Wardens and Necromancers were both designed later, so their toolkit is fairly well-rounded and they are designed to tackle pretty much any role.

Nightblades were designed much earlier, and while they've been reworked some for ZOS' new "viable, but not optimal in any role" idea, their squishy damage dealer roots still show. It's pretty obvious that unlike Wardens and Necromancers, stamina was an afterthought when Nightblades were made.

For what it's worth, it took me years to level up a Nightblade to 50 because every time I tried, I had the same experience as you. What finally made the difference was really making sure I chose skills that boosted my survivability. Even then, I don't play my Nightblade much. MagDK, Stam Sorc, and Warden are more to my taste.

If you can't get Vigor right away on your stamblade, I'd use Dual Wield and take the healing morphs of the first two skills (Bloodthirst and Blood Craze). Skills advisor and all the build guides will tell you these are not the preferred morphs. They are correct and you'll want to change them eventually, but in the meantime, they are a really useful source of stamina healing in combat until you get Vigor.

ANewHand

It's a lot easier to kill mobs when you first stun them with a backstab Veiled Strike, which you can easily do with Cloak's invisibility. Unfortunately, you don't have much high-damage AoE spam like necros do, but your single-target burst is higher.

If you're trying to tackle Bosses, you can try attacking them at range with Strife/Swallow Soul, as it deals damage while healing you. It's a Magicka-based ability but at your level Stam/Mag doesn't matter as your stats are evenly spread.

It also gets better when you get sustain abilities like Siphoning Strikes/Executioner and the high-damage burst Grim Focus, but you'll have to wait a few levels to get those.

ANewHand

XXX wrote: »

Nightblades are too hard for me.

You shouldn't give up on NBs forever tough. Maybe level up your first (necro) character, get some Champion Points (CP), get some better gear for your NB alt, and you'll have an easier time. NBs are really fun, and Cloak allows you to go wherever you want without bother.

And the Nightblade rotation is, IMO, much simpler than Necro's. You only have single target (point-and-click) abilities and a couple timer (Grim Focus and Siphoning Strikes, if using). Otherwise it's a bunch of good ol' spamming. Necros have many more timers to keep track of, AoE you need to recast when the Boss moves, and finicky abilities (Blastbone, tethers...).

Stx

Nightblades are very fun, but at the moment there isn't much reason to play one over other classes. Their strength is single target damage but other classes can deal just as much single target damage while also dealing heavy cleave damage at the same time.

One thing NB isn't bad at though is surviving. They have some pretty good defenses, they just aren't all available at level 20.

master_vanargand

Sadly, PvE NB DPS is currently the weakest class.
Compared to other class, it is about 10,000 DPS lower in now ver.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

....PvE stamblade is currently the third hardest hitting stam dps in the game, and hardest hitting base game class. Necro and warden being the hardest hitting overall. I'd say play around with them all and see what works, personally I'm terrible with necromancer, but I've been doing achievement runs with ease on my StamDK, so you may find it is just you class, you may find something else.

Stx

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

....PvE stamblade is currently the third hardest hitting stam dps in the game, and hardest hitting base game class. Necro and warden being the hardest hitting overall. I'd say play around with them all and see what works, personally I'm terrible with necromancer, but I've been doing achievement runs with ease on my StamDK, so you may find it is just you class, you may find something else.

Do you have a source for these class dps rankings?

I have seen stam dk parses for 120k this patch, but not nightblade anywhere close to that.

Ippokrates

Necro is relatively easy class, with well developed skill trees that can benefit chop-chop style of gameplay ^^

On the other hand, NB is amazing in flanking and sneak attacks and can one shot most of overland mobs, but you will need a lot of practice to learn how to play it.

El_Borracho

@ANewHand I completely agree with you on this. My first character was a Stam DK. Played it until CP 160 (in the old days) then built a stamblade. Super squishy, hard to figure out. So I went back to my Stam DK, hit CP 600, THEN went back to the stamblade. World of difference. Also helped that I had all the trials gear I needed at the time, too.

The stamblade and magblade are two of my favorite DDs in the game. The stamblade is still harder as the magblade has a constant damage/heal spammable. They're so versatile, can flip back and forth between PVE and PVP, make great werewolves, and are awesome stamina DDs.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

XXX wrote: »

How come that the necromancer class is so strong in pve, Im lvl 20 and only died once at a boss. I tried to lvl shado wblade, and I feel like that I barely do any damage died like 25 times and im only lvl 10(maybe im doing something wrong).

You simply cant compare class balance at level 20. You dont have enough of the skills unlocked to draw any meaningful conclusions.

That said, Nightblade is about as strong as anything at early levels. I much prefer my nightblade to my necromancer for soloing content. You can clear the entire main questline just using Swallow Soul, and it is available right out of the gate.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

XXX wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Comparing a necro to a stamblade at Level 20 is not an accurate comparison. All nightblades are squishy little noodles when they first start out. They are heavily CP dependent for damage and survivability. Skill morphs are also how to stay alive and do damage. Finally, the rotation is one of the hardest in the game to master as its dynamic with several different timers you have to pay attention to, specifically spectral arrow and leeching strikes. You will not see real results until after you hit CP 300 in terms of damage and survivability.

With all of this, you might think nightblades, specifically stamblades, are not worth the effort. That would be wrong. They are constantly near the top of the DDs classes. While stam necros may be above them in the DD rankings, its not by much. Additionally, a lot of the top necro builds are group/synergy dependent for sustain. Nightblades do not have that problem, and if played properly, are one of the more tanky/survivable DDs out there.

One thing you will absolutely need as a stamblade is vigor. You need to do PVP to get that. I would recommend doing it now while you can still run under level 50 campaigns. Much easier to level up that skill now than later.

I agree. It did make a big difference when I switched to necro. Nightblades are too hard for me.

Nightblades are one of the most difficult playstyles to master, but they do reward the effort once you get the hang of it. In PVP, you need to be elusive. In PVE at the higher end of things, they have probably the least forgiving rotation. It requires a very good light attack weave to maximize Relentless focus/Merciless resolve, the ult is very short duration and you need to line up spammables to maximize its effectiveness, I could go on. Necro rotation can be played very circular and static.

On the magic side of things, they have a very high ceiling in actual combat (dummy parses never tell the full story), but most people will pull more DPS on a mag sorc, for example (probably the closest comparison to a magic nightblade), because their rotation is more difficult.

Now from the context of this thread, i am guessing you couldnt care about trial effectiveness and DPS parses. You want to feel powerful when doing overland and questing. I wouldnt give up on that nightblade, just yet. You can make a very simple build that will fly through that type of content. I have 18 toons, if someone deleted my account tomorrow and I was forced to start over, first toon I roll is a mageblade. They are far and away my favorite for farming and 4 man stuff. Good damage, good sustain, great passive self heals, and you can sneak past anything (useful for farming).

My go to NB build:
Gear double fire staffs and any two sets that give benefits to magic, spell damage, and spell crit. Dont over think your gear at low levels. At high levels, Bahsei, Tzogvin, one piece crit, Mythic item (content dependent).

Bars: May not have everything right away at your level.

Front: Swallow Soul, Merciless Resolve, Impale, Sap Essence, Inner Light, Soul Harvest
Back: Twisting Path, Unstable Wall, Mystic Orb, Siphoning Strikes, *Flex, Destro Ultimate.

*Flex: for damage, dark shade. For survival, harness magic. For sneakiness, Cloak.

Sure you can min/max for different encounters, but I can run any PVE content in the game with that bar setup.

Skill Basics:
Swallow Soul: main spammable. It does damage and heals you. You can clear entire main quest with this one skill.
Merciless: Probably trickiest skill to use. Keep up the buff, cast instead of spammable when it procs.
Impale: Execute, cast instead of SS when target is below 25% health.
Sap Essence: Basically AOE version of swallow soul. Becomes your spam when 3 or more enemies. Also give Major Sorcery which is very important buff.
Inner Light (mages guild): slot for the passives, never cast. Gives lots of magic and major prophecy, second most important buff.
Soul harvest: Really there for the ultimate generation. If you want to use single target, better of with incap strike.

Twisting Path: Ground AOE, keep it on target.
Unstable Wall (destro staff): Ground AOE, keep it on target.
Mystic Orb (undaunted): Treat it like a ground AOE, technically it moves: Safe to always cast these 3 together. Orb, Wall, Path, Sap Sap Sap. will take out 99% of the things you rune into in overland.
Siphoning Strikes: Cast on cooldown for sustain.
Flex, use as needed.
Destro Ult: Main AOE ultimate unless on a long single target fight. Will melt most things.

There, now you are a nightblade. LOL