Does it bother you when people call tanks selfish?

FeedbackOnly

For wearing the sets they want?

Dojohoda

The way I understand it and in this context of gear, selfish means the tank's sets don't buff the group.

On a side note, if anyone is interested in learning more about tanking in ESO visit: https://thetankclub.com/. I'm not affiliated with the website; I just like it and I think it has a lot of good information.

redspecter23

I think it's just a term used to describe the sets/skills/playstyle for that particular build. It doesn't necessarily mean the player is being selfish. They are playing in a way that puts a survivability focus on that player. This could be a huge benefit to the team in certain content, even if they are selfish as far as their build is concerned.

Brrrofski

I don't do trials as I find them mind numbingly boring, so I'm thinking of vet dungeons (mostly DLC as base game is super easy anyway).

Honestly, I want the tank to taunt the big stuff and stay alive.

If they need "selfish" sets to do that, then that's what it is.

Any buffs they can give is then a bonus.

mocap

it all depends on content. Random n/v dungeon? Don't care. Progressive vet trial? Group will not allows you to go with them with your favorite selfish set.

VaranisArano

No, I'm not bothered, because that's not what it means. I realize that we're socialized to assume that "selfish" is inherently negative, but in this case, it's more descriptive.

Non-selfish means sets that support the group directly, i.e. Ebon Armory, Powerful Assault, Alkosh, Yolnahkriin, etc.

Selfish means sets that primarily support the tank, and thus only indirectly support the group inasmuch as it lets the tank do their job properly, i.e. Leeching Plate, Plague Doctor, Whitestrakes Retribution

Selfish sets have their place. Typically, they are ideal for random groups doing random vet dungeons where a PUG might not provide all the support the tank needs or the group benefits more from the tank dealing direct damage than they would from the buffs. As we know, a buff to low DPS is not much of a buff. And since a tank dying can lead to a group wipe, it's natural that a tank should wear the gear they feel they need to stay alive.

Meanwhile, when you hit 12-man content, the non-selfish sets are king because that content requires group effort and higher DPS. Since buffs are proportionate to DPS, tank buffs benefit the group far more than trying to add some measly direct damage.


Tanks, more than most roles, fall into the category of "wear whatever gear is needed so the group completes the content." The attitude of "I wear what I want" seems a bit odd to me. Wear whatever
works, sure. Just understand that different sets work better in different situations as the needs of the tank and the group change.

Even in normals, I'll swap between Grothdarr and Lord Warden depending on whether the group needs a little more DPS or a little more defense.

the1andonlyskwex

It bothers me a little with both tanks and healers. The word "selfish" has negative connotations that I don't really appreciate, especially when applied to gear choices in a PuG environment where buffing your group isn't always the most effective strategy.

Even more annoying is the fact that gear and encounters are designed in ways that push tanks and (especially) healers into mindless buff-bot roles. My power fantasy is to be a tank or healer, not to serve the whims of DPS players seeking bigger numbers.

Stx

So I don't tank often, but I have in the past and currently I have one tank character that I play in PUG dungeons.

I have never had anyone call me out for wearing a selfish set. Currently I am wearing two group buff sets and one selfish set, because that's all I have. I don't have yolnakrin, drakes rush, or Crimson oath. I use spaulder of ruin with powerful assault and crest of cyrodil because that's what I've been able to aquire.

That being said, I don't have an issue with people calling tanks using only selfish sets out. Because buffing the group is part of the tanks role... obviously if it's a newer player, people should be nice about it. And if it's in easier content, it really doesn't matter much. But in the end I feel tank players should learn to maximize their contribution to the group, and that includes buffs and debuffs.

etchedpixels

It doesn't bother me but I think there's a lot of confusion and wrong assumption about it. For some roles you want selfish sets, for some builds you use "selfish" sets in order to have a lower health and bigger resource pool to use actual skills to buff the group instead.

Much of it is about the group and scaling. For situations without formal groups selfish sets are often a win. I don't wear group buff sets when punching dragons in the face in Elsweyr. For dungeons it often goes either way and can be very situational. Trials tend to be favour gear because whilst there are gear sets that buff 11 group members there are very few buff skills that scale that way and with the same kind of power.

KhajiitLivesMatter

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

For wearing the sets they want?

if a tank wears tanky sets when they dont need them (like nearly all dungoens and vet raids(not hm)) they are selfish and just not a pretty good tank

if they wear this sets when they are actually needed (if group is trash and all are dying or in some hms) than thats totaly fine

many people dont understand that GOOD tanks and healers in eso are basicly buff bots

buttaface

It's not something to get particularly offended at any more than 100 other examples of inaccurate/slanted gamer jargon is. It and all the other slanted language simply need to be done away with or ignore those using it as not being reasonable sources of information.

Healers aren't called "selfish" when they use resource sets instead of buffing sets. DPS aren't called "selfish" when they run dummy humping gear they saw in a video or guide that is not optimal for the specific content they are doing. DPS were never called "selfish" for not wanting to run DPS set Alkosh and insisting a tank run it...

Ever notice in PvP in -every- game that it's always the other guy zerging? Never one's own team doing the zerging? Same illiterate gamerboi "broscience" principle in action, many such cases.

Vevvev

No, and I laugh at how selfish my tank is. Sure it has some group buffs but you can't get me to unslot the Whitestrake set! Saved me so many times I just can't part with it no matter how selfish it is. Would you rather have me dead? Yeah, thought so...

(It's my only selfish set as the rest are group buffing, but to some having one selfish set drops you in that bucket for some reason.)

Pet

For me, it depends on what the tank is actually running. If they're not buffing groups dps whatsoever, then yeah, that's selfish. The role of the tank is to hold aggro of things that do high damage to players, and to debuff them while also buffing group dps so that the enemies can die faster. This is like having a healer in no buffs and being offended when they're called selfish. It's a support role, so to not support the group is indeed selfish. You can play that way if you'd like, but it is still selfish regardless.

Amottica

I am assuming this deals with raiding. In that context, players wear what is best for the group as determined by the leadership. I have seen players removed from a raid group for ignoring requests and doing their own things. I would expect no less in ESO.

Raideen

Brrrofski wrote: »

I don't do trials as I find them mind numbingly boring, so I'm thinking of vet dungeons (mostly DLC as base game is super easy anyway).

Honestly, I want the tank to taunt the big stuff and stay alive.

If they need "selfish" sets to do that, then that's what it is.

Any buffs they can give is then a bonus.

Agreed 100% I am always ready to debuff the mob as a DPS or even a healer. I'd prefer the tank be able to take a real beating. Nothing worse than squishy tanks.

What_In_Tarnation

As a tank main myself, not really bother me at all. It's a learning curve for tanks.

Tank's first priority is stay alive, then buff group. If you can't stay alive when use group buff sets, then it's no point at all. Gotta learn to stay alive first then can consider buff your group next.

For any tank that actually want to be competent, it shouldn't be bothered at all. But maybe that's me.

Opalblade

As someone who wants to play as a tank and not a boring buffbot, yes. Apparently that's not allowed in this game, so I just avoid it by soloing whatever dungeons I can instead.

BXR_Lonestar

Brrrofski wrote: »

I don't do trials as I find them mind numbingly boring, so I'm thinking of vet dungeons (mostly DLC as base game is super easy anyway).

Honestly, I want the tank to taunt the big stuff and stay alive.

If they need "selfish" sets to do that, then that's what it is.

Any buffs they can give is then a bonus.

Honestly, the difference between a trials tank and a tank that needs selfish sets to survive is just experience. Once you have tanked enough content in selfish gear, you learn the mechanics, learn the tells, and you figure out how much resources/health you really need to survive an encounter, and once you know that, you can start shedding the survivability sets for more group support sets.

McTaterskins

If you fake queued, have zero dps, and/or can't heal, I'm going to swap into something selfish depending on the content.

Giving someone an extra 200 or 300 weapon/spell damage isn't going to suddenly bring a 5k dps to a 25k dps. Which means I'll need to opt to making sure that I can survive the execute phase, enrage mechanic, etc. etc. so that content can be completed. (Or... so I can solo it if need be. Which happens more often than some would expect. I run a lot of vet random though.)

While I should have probably selected "other" instead, I would say yes. Its annoying.

Note:
My tanks run either PA or Scorian on one bar with Yoln on the other with 1 trainee and bloodlord embrace and a full monster set.. I carry a couplefew different monster sets for content/group make-up swaps. Then a selfish set or two depending on what the problem is if it comes up. (Usually sustain related if fights will be prolonged due to super low dps/new players etc.)

Many tanks do this. I also don't harp on other tanks for not doing it. Most the time when I'm doing something on a DD I'd rather just know for sure they're going to hold agro and not die.

El_Borracho

As far as random normals, I always run the support sets to make it faster. But for vet dungeons, if a group is good enough that I can run support sets, I do. If the group is newer to the dungeon, I run a more selfish setup or a setup that heals and/or shields the group more than upping damage. Trials are a completely different animal. Run what the group needs depending if you are main or off tank

KhajiitLivesMatter

Vevvev wrote: »

No, and I laugh at how selfish my tank is. Sure it has some group buffs but you can't get me to unslot the Whitestrake set! Saved me so many times I just can't part with it no matter how selfish it is. Would you rather have me dead? Yeah, thought so...

(It's my only selfish set as the rest are group buffing, but to some having one selfish set drops you in that bucket for some reason.)

than its fine for u if i as a dd wear something like plague doctor ? thats just useless sure i would be more tanky but i would be worse in my role

but if i just argue would u prefer me dead?

than this should be fine right?

if everyone would do that everyone should run full defense ego setup and all content would just take forever

the1andonlyskwex

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

No, and I laugh at how selfish my tank is. Sure it has some group buffs but you can't get me to unslot the Whitestrake set! Saved me so many times I just can't part with it no matter how selfish it is. Would you rather have me dead? Yeah, thought so...

(It's my only selfish set as the rest are group buffing, but to some having one selfish set drops you in that bucket for some reason.)

than its fine for u if i as a dd wear something like plague doctor ? thats just useless sure i would be more tanky but i would be worse in my role

but if i just argue would u prefer me dead?

than this should be fine right?

if everyone would do that everyone should run full defense ego setup and all content would just take forever

A tank's primary job is defensive, a DD's isn't.

KhajiitLivesMatter

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

No, and I laugh at how selfish my tank is. Sure it has some group buffs but you can't get me to unslot the Whitestrake set! Saved me so many times I just can't part with it no matter how selfish it is. Would you rather have me dead? Yeah, thought so...

(It's my only selfish set as the rest are group buffing, but to some having one selfish set drops you in that bucket for some reason.)

than its fine for u if i as a dd wear something like plague doctor ? thats just useless sure i would be more tanky but i would be worse in my role

but if i just argue would u prefer me dead?

than this should be fine right?

if everyone would do that everyone should run full defense ego setup and all content would just take forever

A tank's primary job is defensive, a DD's isn't.

only 50% of its job atleast for a good tank
tank and healers in eso are 50% buff bot to
so if a tank goes more tanky than actually neccary he is wasting dmg - the same as if i would equip a tanky set

Merforum

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

For wearing the sets they want?

The term 'selfish' tank sets is actually backwards. It is NOT the TANK who is being selfish, it is the DDs who selfishly want the tank to wear BUFF sets that BUFF their DPS. It is just another insult to add to the long list of reasons people do not like to be tanks.

And I would say that DEBUFFING the boss and pulling adds into a pile is FAR MORE beneficial than any buff a tank set can give. Also they should buff TANK DAMAGE back to were it was before they nerfed it so bad because of PVPer complaining, then tanking would be fun again and stand on it's own rather than being a buff bot.

Also as a healer, I don't appreciate being called 'selfish' and relegated to being a buff bot for DDs either, especially when I can keep most players alive and at the same time do a good amount of DPS. High damage is already over tuned by a lot and the obsession with damage has made the game combat not fun, even when playing as a DD.

Vevvev

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

No, and I laugh at how selfish my tank is. Sure it has some group buffs but you can't get me to unslot the Whitestrake set! Saved me so many times I just can't part with it no matter how selfish it is. Would you rather have me dead? Yeah, thought so...

(It's my only selfish set as the rest are group buffing, but to some having one selfish set drops you in that bucket for some reason.)

than its fine for u if i as a dd wear something like plague doctor ? thats just useless sure i would be more tanky but i would be worse in my role

but if i just argue would u prefer me dead?

than this should be fine right?

if everyone would do that everyone should run full defense ego setup and all content would just take forever

That's funny how people like you only look at our sets. I joke about it often, but nobody ever stops to realize that I'm also packing Talons, Blood Altar, Aggressive Warhorn, both Puncture and Inner Fire for those sweet sweet debuffs, Crusher and Weakening enchantments, and Unstable Ice Wall for those group wide projectile damage shields.

One selfish set doesn't mean the tank isn't doing their job. I group up the adds, I taunt and debuff the boss, I give you powerful synergies and buffs, and I do my best to survive. If I die you all die in the hardest of veteran content, especially when you run into undodgeable stuff.

Codafarian

I've literally nev... [snip]

[edited for having an opinion]

KhajiitLivesMatter

Vevvev wrote: »

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

No, and I laugh at how selfish my tank is. Sure it has some group buffs but you can't get me to unslot the Whitestrake set! Saved me so many times I just can't part with it no matter how selfish it is. Would you rather have me dead? Yeah, thought so...

(It's my only selfish set as the rest are group buffing, but to some having one selfish set drops you in that bucket for some reason.)

than its fine for u if i as a dd wear something like plague doctor ? thats just useless sure i would be more tanky but i would be worse in my role

but if i just argue would u prefer me dead?

than this should be fine right?

if everyone would do that everyone should run full defense ego setup and all content would just take forever

That's funny how people like you only look at our sets. I joke about it often, but nobody ever stops to realize that I'm also packing Talons, Blood Altar, Aggressive Warhorn, both Puncture and Inner Fire for those sweet sweet debuffs, Crusher and Weakening enchantments, and Unstable Ice Wall for those group wide projectile damage shields.

One selfish set doesn't mean the tank isn't doing their job. I group up the adds, I taunt and debuff the boss, I give you powerful synergies and buffs, and I do my best to survive. If I die you all die in the hardest of veteran content, especially when you run into undodgeable stuff.

doens t change anything cause its expectet for a supportive role to have buff skills so its not an arguement cause its expectet
so i dont argue as a dd that i have dmg skills so i can use selfish sets....

ResidentContrarian

I stopped caring about what people thought when I was three years old. Do what you want in life, no matter who it angers. Let them boil in their own pot or rage, it's usually quite a show.

Stx

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

I stopped caring about what people thought when I was three years old. Do what you want in life, no matter who it angers. Let them boil in their own pot or rage, it's usually quite a show.

The very definition of selfish. Glad you had life figured out when you were 3 years old!

Vevvev

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

No, and I laugh at how selfish my tank is. Sure it has some group buffs but you can't get me to unslot the Whitestrake set! Saved me so many times I just can't part with it no matter how selfish it is. Would you rather have me dead? Yeah, thought so...

(It's my only selfish set as the rest are group buffing, but to some having one selfish set drops you in that bucket for some reason.)

than its fine for u if i as a dd wear something like plague doctor ? thats just useless sure i would be more tanky but i would be worse in my role

but if i just argue would u prefer me dead?

than this should be fine right?

if everyone would do that everyone should run full defense ego setup and all content would just take forever

That's funny how people like you only look at our sets. I joke about it often, but nobody ever stops to realize that I'm also packing Talons, Blood Altar, Aggressive Warhorn, both Puncture and Inner Fire for those sweet sweet debuffs, Crusher and Weakening enchantments, and Unstable Ice Wall for those group wide projectile damage shields.

One selfish set doesn't mean the tank isn't doing their job. I group up the adds, I taunt and debuff the boss, I give you powerful synergies and buffs, and I do my best to survive. If I die you all die in the hardest of veteran content, especially when you run into undodgeable stuff.

doens t change anything cause its expectet for a supportive role to have buff skills so its not an arguement cause its expectet
so i dont argue as a dd that i have dmg skills so i can use selfish sets....

I'm having a hard time understanding your broken post with tons of grammar issues and typos. DD's by their nature are selfish in that they need to look inwardly as their performance is based upon their own personal skill and rotations. Some DD's do have a couple of group synergies and buffs but they're tailored for the Trial group they're in to maximize the whole team's performance. And it's usually only a couple of them that do this as every single damage dealer is not required to do this as it would lower their DPS in most situations.

HappyTheCamper

I think fake tanks are selfish.