Idea: Companions should supplement poor dps.

Eormenric

Spend any length of time on these forums and you'll find a thread about someone questioning how any player can perform such low dps in any breadth of content. While suggestions for fixing this range from the feasible to the downright impossible, my brief research didn't find companions as the answer. (Do let me know if this has already been suggested to better results.)

Right now, companions only appear in group content when there's not enough real players to fill the slots--a fairly niche use for their potential. But what if companions were dynamic? Popping in and out of combat with you when your personal dps was below a certain threshold for certain content--obviously nothing competitive; just dungeons and vet dungeons.

Imagine a player, uh, doing whatever they think is amounting to sufficient dps (when it isn't), when suddenly Mirri jumps out of the shadows and says, "Looks like you could use a hand!" and begins attacking enemies appropriately until your dps reaches a fair threshold. By this, she is simply doing the most damage as per your build of her without stepping into tank or healing roles. Or maybe in these moments, companions add a flat range of dps, say up to 10k.

We have to realize that this brings up talks of pay-to-win because, until ESO is bundled with the Blackwood chapter, someone would need to purchase Blackwood in order to access this dps supplement. But I'd argue that a Venn Diagram of people that don't already own Blackwood and that still produce poor dps would reveal a small amount of players affected by this.

I want a solution to unfortunately queuing with low dps output players as much as anyone. I think companions need to be looked at as a solution now that they're been out for awhie. Not only does it allow these players not to get kicked for poor performance, it gives them a clear visual cue that they are underperforming. Could they simply not care? Of course. That's always a possibility. But an objective mechanic can be more persuasive than an abrupt kick or lots of shouting from team members to "get gewd". Heck, the companion could even stick around after combat for a minute and call out, "Come talk to me if you'd like some pointers for next time". When you talk to them you can have an option that says, "How did I do?" and they tell you your damage and how it can be improved--no different than when you die and the death recap gives you tips on how to survive.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Perhaps anyone's companion (or the most dps-built) could step forward and help a player (with all the same functionality), phasing to only be seen by the player lacking in damage? That way it isn't up to every individual to train their companions.

Fennwitty

I feel for the sentiment, but this is almost making automatic combat where the player no longer has real responsibility for being a group member or even pressing buttons.

Almost like being a bot.

_Zathras_

Eormenric wrote: »

I want a solution to unfortunately queuing with low dps output players as much as anyone.

The solution is already there: run with your guild/friends.

That way you won’t have to suffer through groups that don’t meet your standards.

Bouldercleave

So essentially you are so good that you feel that ESO should regulate and add DPS for players that aren't up to your standards?

[snip]
[edited for flaming]

Amottica

Umm, no. For many reasons but starting with the first and most important fact is that companions are not part of the base game. As such they should never be included in any group content when the group is full.

The suggestion would lead to players getting kicked because they do not have companions. Then we have the subsequent threads about being kicked before the first set of trash mobs because I did not have a companion and the P2W threads which would be the first such theads in these forums that would be close to being correct.

While that is more than sufficient of a reason, we also have how poorly companions deal with damage and reset bosses. They are not reliable. We also have that some companions are set to healing and other companions are set to tanking which means they would be of little benefit to augmenting DPS.

Hapexamendios

A tank in Crimson Twilight, Bahraha's Curse and Grothdarr would supplement low DPS better than any companion.

bmnoble

Depends what if that persons companion is set up as a tank or healer? what if the companion just gets killed a few seconds after appearing?

My original hope for companions was being able to use them in addition to a group of 4 in dungeons not as a replacement to solve the low DPS issue. As in the group of 4 doing the dungeon could choose to have their companions out as well if they wanted to regardless of a full group.

That way if the group was lacking Damage a few group members could summon their companions to try and make up the difference without having to resort to kicking someone and finding a replacement right away.

BretonMage

I do think companion's DPS should be improved, and I'm not sure I like the idea of them popping up like Microsoft's Clippy.

VaranisArano

Just make it a new Mythic item. Call it "Training Wheels."

"Once equipped, the sum of your damage per second on a boss-level enemy is 10k, no more, no less. This ring adds damage up to the cap for each second that you damage the boss."

(This would be a terribly cheesy idea as a Mythic, but it would be less clunky than trying to completely rework Companion combat.)

Raideen

I just wish I could control companions as effortlessly as I could control my pets on my hunter in wow.


I spend more time trying to keep the companion alive, or to keep them from running out of the mobs aggro range and resetting the mob than I would if I just did not use them.

I love the idea of compantions, love their customization...heck I even made a house for one of mine. On paper companions are great.

In game, not so much.

Succuby

Fennwitty wrote: »

I feel for the sentiment, but this is almost making automatic combat where the player no longer has real responsibility for being a group member or even pressing buttons.

Almost like being a bot.

Sorcs have 2 pets that do DPS by the way.

I would like companions work and be like real deal - do dps like middle plyer, tank 1 target as real tank.

And want any other game stiles be possible - not only LA is the best with huge dps buffed number.

I do not see problem if people want to play with companions and if it can have more options to operate.

I would like to try to pass dunguans and trials with half players and companions.

But you will not find now a lot of players like that. Even if you do, dore will not open, as example in AA or HRC.

It is really good toy, but it is weak now.

Fun to play and if it can be more powered it can be even more fun.

Vevvev

I misread it as "door DPS" and then was thinking, "But they can't be used in PvP." Sadly the companions are not really all that good damage dealers either. They're pretty terrible in all honestly and only slightly better than someone doing below 10k DPS. Great as healers and support characters though thanks to the fact they can slot Blood Altar, immobilize waves of enemies, and have unique debuffs for enemies.

Amottica

VaranisArano wrote: »

Just make it a new Mythic item. Call it "Training Wheels."

"Once equipped, the sum of your damage per second on a boss-level enemy is 10k, no more, no less. This ring adds damage up to the cap for each second that you damage the boss."

(This would be a terribly cheesy idea as a Mythic, but it would be less clunky than trying to completely rework Companion combat.)

First, I laughed at the idea of training wheels, but I do agree that it would be very difficult, and probably clunky, as you said, to rework companions combat in this manner.

Succuby

Vevvev wrote: »

I misread it as "door DPS" and then was thinking, "But they can't be used in PvP." Sadly the companions are not really all that good damage dealers either. They're pretty terrible in all honestly and only slightly better than someone doing below 10k DPS. Great as healers and support characters though thanks to the fact they can slot Blood Altar, immobilize waves of enemies, and have unique debuffs for enemies.

If companion can use just spammable with no 5-8 seconds CD it will not even be a problem !

Game has not CD on skills but companions do - thats all the problem.

Skill->Skill->Skill->Skill-> X* Spammable

Or HA->skill->HA->Skill and etc.

But no such option.

If it can have 1 skill becomes spammable - problem would be solved.

But no such option. So it is only cool for doing combo and one shot mobs 30 k hp and a little help with healing.

Succuby

Amottica wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Just make it a new Mythic item. Call it "Training Wheels."

"Once equipped, the sum of your damage per second on a boss-level enemy is 10k, no more, no less. This ring adds damage up to the cap for each second that you damage the boss."

(This would be a terribly cheesy idea as a Mythic, but it would be less clunky than trying to completely rework Companion combat.)

First, I laughed at the idea of training wheels, but I do agree that it would be very difficult, and probably clunky, as you said, to rework companions combat in this manner.

To say trully some times i want to start dps 1 k dps in some groups i really do not like So may be people do it for a reason )))

AJones43865

I still don't understand how a digital companion should even be in an MMO. MMO's are for playing the game with other real human people, not an NPC.

buttaface

Players should be encouraged (required) to learn the very basics of dps, dropping aoe dots, spammables, not crutched by what effectively is an aimbot.

A better solution would be a free training dummy that can fit in any house that includes such tips inherently, "apply aoe 1 then light attack, apply aoe 2 then light attack, switch bars, apply spammable then light attack, do that sequence twice. Reapply aoe 1, reapply aoe 2." Give some meaningful reward for completing an attached tutorial.

The tutorial attempts some of that. but only covers light attacks, blocking, breaking free and interrupting, so I know it's doable. No idea why that wasn't included in the new tutorial from the start.

In 90% of all the multiplayer games I've played, players seem to learn these things on day one, maybe because learning them is required before any progress can be made in the game. Else you die over and over in content. For example, in ancient WOW, if you did not learn these things, you couldn't solo veteran level mobs, they would kill you. Not so ESO, and I've never been able to figure whether that's by design or a gaping design flaw.

WraithShadow13

Considering that the game does nothing to teach you how to DPS, let alone DPS to levels where you can tell everyone they have "Poor DPS", it really seems like a weird post.


I get that new players are going to be lower dps, or that not everyone min-maxes, but you might as well be asking for a teleport feature, so that when you run ahead, the rest of the group gets teleported to you, regardless of what they're doing.

Although, technically, they DO that with some bosses...


I like being able to play as i want and build to a character, rather than min-maxing and having rotations, which seems to be how the game was actually designed. If you're having an issue with people with "Poor DPS", maybe don't play on the easiest setting?

Ermiq

Bouldercleave wrote: »

[snip]

Could NOT care less.

The topic idea is terrible, by the way. In the game where new players don't even know the very basics like the bash/interrupt mechanics existence, the least thing we need is this auto-combat stuff that will forgive even more to those new players so they have even less reason to learn the game.

[edited to remove quote]

Eormenric

I appreciate all the comments and feedback.

I think it's clear that this is a hotly debated topic for a couple reasons: One being a sense of feeling targeted or ridiculed for your performance, which is not what I'm trying to say--though text often makes conveyance difficult. The second being an observance of no combat tutorials worth retaining (if any truly exist at all).

Whether in the form of friendly companions, a free instructive training dummy, a tutorial at the beginning of the game (and maybe once you reach CP 160--because let's face it things will get more complicated from there), more guidance is certainly needed for players.

We could all benefit from only queuing with people in our same range of capabilities. But friends and guildmates are not always available. And queuing for a random dungeon isn't just for a reward. It's to hopefully meet more friends and guildmates as you see their interests match yours. So for those times when neither is applicable, it shouldn't default to a dreadful experience or increased queue times for the affected player(s). Hence, a solution is needed. One that doesn't feel insulting or demeaning to those it targets and still allows the other player(s) to accomplish what they set out to do.

Still, at the end of the day, a larger issue (though sadly one that can't really be remedied via a video game) is that we all could probably stand to improve in something and that getting defensive about it and resorting to name-calling is truly a sad moment for discussion and self-reflection. MMOs have been adding in "training wheels" since they realized a purely hardcore mindset wasn't effective for player retention. The challenge lies in making sure those implementations are fair, acceptable, and transcend simply giving away free things. You don't have to like the solution. But to respond so antagonistically shows that you're aware a problem exists--even if you don't care to do anything about it.

I feel like if we could see a Machinima-esque version of some solution, we could better visualized how this would function.

Kiralyn2000

AJones43865 wrote: »

I still don't understand how a digital companion should even be in an MMO. MMO's are for playing the game with other real human people, not an NPC.

This reminds me of an old MMO I tried where each player's "character" was a team of three people.
edit: and then there's SWtOR, where every player has multiple companion options.
edit2: and then there's people who do want to "play with other real humans", but would prefer to do dungeons/etc with Friends not Randoms, and their circle of friends is 1 or 2 smaller than the normal group size. Or someone's sick that night, so they're one short. So they fill out the group with a companion or two.


And, just like people who solo in an MMO, they're still playing with "massively multiple" other players - they're interacting in chat, they're interacting via the economy, they're interacting via competing for mob spawns & resource nodes... a game can still be "massively multiplayer" without people actively grouping up or fighting each other.

Bouldercleave

Ermiq wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

[snip]

Could NOT care less.

The topic idea is terrible, by the way. In the game where new players don't even know the very basics like the bash/interrupt mechanics existence, the least thing we need is this auto-combat stuff that will forgive even more to those new players so they have even less reason to learn the game.

[edited to remove quote]

Thank you for the english lesson I guess?

SickDuck

Companions are not part of the base game, behind a pay wall. Making them strong (well, decent) would be basically 'P2W'.

Putting them in group content as an extra would also create lot of issues as dungeons are made with FOUR players in mind. They are not pets, they do not behave as pets and should not be considered pets.So they should not be exempt from all mechanics, buffs & debuffs - which would lead to many weird situations. Also they are dumb af, die in the stupid or run away with the boss, etc.

Also agree with the comments above that people need to learn their game and not outsource it to bots. If you are struggling with someone in group content either educate or kick them. Both would create some level of motivation to improve hopefully.