PVP is all about stun/gank now

CaptainVenom

What happened to that beautiful and inspiring "play how you want" mantra I heard so much about? Because from what I see, stun/gank/executioner isn't really how I want to play.

It's time to rethink pvp, ZOS. For non-meta (and by meta I mean the extremely strict two-handed/stun/gank), calling it a disgrace is a monumental understatement. One-handed builds don't work; magicka hits like a wet toilet paper; stun is a must and two-handed is your only chance to win most of the time.

Really, I enjoy pvp and competitive games, but this is becoming awful.

Jeremy

CaptainVenom wrote: »

What happened to that beautiful and inspiring "play how you want" mantra I heard so much about? Because from what I see, stun/gank/executioner isn't really how I want to play.

It's time to rethink pvp, ZOS. For non-meta, calling it a disgrace is a monumental understatement. One-handed builds don't work; magicka hits like a wet toilet paper; stun is a must and two-handed is your only chance to win most of the time.

Really, I enjoy pvp and competitive games, but this is becoming awful.

PvP on this game has always been about stun/gank. I don't like it either. But as long as I can remember, with maybe only a few exceptions that were quickly nerfed or removed from the game entirely, that has always been the most effective strategy in PvP.

DrSlaughtr

We must be playing two different games. What my friends and I are dealing with are armies of unkillable tanks that are doing more damage than my NB which has been relegated to running Caluurions because it's the only way to do enough damage to have any chance to compete with these brawlers.

Play what you want is a great mantra but most players, especially casually, want to do the damage of a 23k health NB on a 40k health Necro. Or at least that's what I observe.

Vevvev

Play how you want actually is talking about play what activities you want, but if you don't play the activity correctly.... That's not the game lying to you.

Also stun and burst has been the way to kill people for years. Even during the DoT meta that still held true to an extent so it's nothing new.

CaptainVenom

Vevvev wrote: »

Play how you want actually is talking about play what activities you want, but if you don't play the activity correctly.... That's not the game lying to you.

Sure.

Vevvev

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Play how you want actually is talking about play what activities you want, but if you don't play the activity correctly.... That's not the game lying to you.

Sure.

"PLAY THE WAY YOU LIKE
Battle, craft, steal, siege, or explore, and combine different types of armor, weapons, and abilities to create your own style of play. The choice is yours to make in a persistent, ever-growing Elder Scrolls world."

Had to go out and pull the whole statement. It's not lying though as you can get any PvP build to work as long as it's not 100% utility. (The amount of people I run into who just refuse to slot self heals or have abilities that deal more than 6k damage is way too high.) Been playing around with a Simmering Frenzy vampire build lately and the one thing I got rid of to make room for it was a stun. Very brute force way of doing things and I've met mixed results with it. I really do need an unblockable stun for those block holding tanks with high recovery.

newtinmpls

...And this is new...?

FluffWit

I'm happy with the balance right now.

We can't keep reinventing the wheel every 6 months. It's fine. If you can't handle peoples burst reassess your build.

jerj6925

I would love to see PVP return back to the days when all build options were viable builds, basically armor and weapons only slightly enhanced your play style but didn’t define it. Unfortunately, the good ole boys club of players that are a very small minority but are the loudest and always seem to be successful in getting the changes they want. An example was the destruction of the Hrothgar’s chill set, it upset the ivory tower elitists play style and they screamed like little girls saying its wrong for an armor set to get kills for players and requires no skill. Yet they will defend to the ends of time the armor sets that made bombers so amazing they could instantly kill 5, 10, 15, 20, up to how ever many players might be close enough and to those who died and those killed were bad players who should know better than to group up… yet when they died to Hrothgar they are not bad players for … grouping up and in this case it was the armor doing the killing not the player. This armor never even really got a fair shake before it was destroyed much to the delight of the ivory elitist and ball group players, sad thing was this armor set proc was so easy to avoid unlike bomber attacks.

The other aspect of this new meta build approach is to keep everyone farming new gear and having to revisit older zones not really played in anymore, I guess they get to report how they are breathing new light into older content I guess.

Kryptonite_Kent

The problem isnt stuns and burst... its the fact that all the damage is from procs, not abilities... all these proc sets ruined the game honestly, its no longer about how good you are with a class or skill builds, its about what sets are currently OP at playing the game for you

CaptainVenom

FluffWit wrote: »

We can't keep reinventing the wheel every 6 months.

jerj6925 wrote: »

I would love to see PVP return back to the days when all build options were viable builds, basically armor and weapons only slightly enhanced your play style but didn’t define it. Unfortunately, the good ole boys club of players that are a very small minority but are the loudest and always seem to be successful in getting the changes they want. An example was the destruction of the Hrothgar’s chill set, it upset the ivory tower elitists play style and they screamed like little girls saying its wrong for an armor set to get kills for players and requires no skill. Yet they will defend to the ends of time the armor sets that made bombers so amazing they could instantly kill 5, 10, 15, 20, up to how ever many players might be close enough and to those who died and those killed were bad players who should know better than to group up… yet when they died to Hrothgar they are not bad players for … grouping up and in this case it was the armor doing the killing not the player. This armor never even really got a fair shake before it was destroyed much to the delight of the ivory elitist and ball group players, sad thing was this armor set proc was so easy to avoid unlike bomber attacks.

The other aspect of this new meta build approach is to keep everyone farming new gear and having to revisit older zones not really played in anymore, I guess they get to report how they are breathing new light into older content I guess.

Good old times when there was no Caluurion's Legacy and proc set helped the player, not played for them.

DestroyerPewnack

There's a no CP, no proc campaign. You'll have to invest a little bit more into recovery, but you have that option now.
I'm pretty happy with the way the game is balanced right now. Dark Convergence isn't everywhere. Hrothgar doesn't give crazy numbers. It's pretty decent, compared to where the game just was, a month or two ago.

I suspect your problem is really just lag. Maybe you don't have time to break free and dodge roll to survive the burst, with the game being so unresponsive at times.

EmperorIl

CaptainVenom wrote: »

What happened to that beautiful and inspiring "play how you want" mantra I heard so much about? Because from what I see, stun/gank/executioner isn't really how I want to play.

It's time to rethink pvp, ZOS. For non-meta (and by meta I mean the extremely strict two-handed/stun/gank), calling it a disgrace is a monumental understatement. One-handed builds don't work; magicka hits like a wet toilet paper; stun is a must and two-handed is your only chance to win most of the time.

Really, I enjoy pvp and competitive games, but this is becoming awful.

We're playing two different games right now because all I see are unkillable tanks, shield sorcs, and MagDKs.

EmperorIl

FluffWit wrote: »

I'm happy with the balance right now.

We can't keep reinventing the wheel every 6 months. It's fine. If you can't handle peoples burst reassess your build.

What is this balance you speak of? Please explain to the audience how on Earth PvP is balanced right now. I'll be waiting.....

Valion

I feel ya all, but...

Playing as an ambush based executioner (which I always did, even when it was weaker), I need to express a bit of contradiction here.
It is true - weak opposing teams are easy prey for me as long as my two or three mates in BG do well, at least.
Then again, a coordinated enemy team with, say, a good healer and a sturdy tank CAN take the wind out of my sails rather fast.
They won't kill me often since I can stealth out, but I won't drag them down either.
Those situations are very common in DM BG, and then it, once again, is a question of focus, coordination and - yes - teamwork.

I actually like the different "waves" of playstyle dominance ESO has gone through in PVP by now.

The only constancy is change.

Dorkener

It is what it is... and a bit of a vicious circle:
- Damage gets raised / new procc sets are introduced (like the recent patch that gave everyone free 1k S/WD)
- People get tired of getting instagibbed by any ape capable of cloak->hold left click->Ult, so they build like a tank
- Fights devolve into tank apes crosshealing each other with kills only happenning Xv1 / coordinated stun+ult dumps
- People get tired of world of tanks / Xv1 zerging and cry for TTK to get lowered...
And repeat.
I think the problem is the difference between a min-maxed meta build (both sides of the spectrum, ie the pariah mistformer AND caluurion/*insert more proccs* ganker) and a "normal"/balanced build is too big. Not building to either extreme just leaves you in a position to be frustrated by both.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Nah this is definitely a tank meta right now. It will quickly become a damage meta though if zos nerfs survivability too much. Just need to give it a little tap. Its mostly heals and block that are making the current tank meta so obnoxious. You either kill someone instantly or they will turtle up with heals and become unkillable.

Could even let them stay that survivable, but give us something to counter the tank builds. Something that hits hard exclusively on people with high % mitigation. Like hrothgars, but without the stupid aoe component and have it scale only off of % mitigation instead of armor. Would hit like a truck against someone holding up block. Should never need more then 1 person to kill anyone in pvp imo(perma blockers included).

Parasaurolophus

TheEndBringer wrote: »

We must be playing two different games. What my friends and I are dealing with are armies of unkillable tanks that are doing more damage than my NB which has been relegated to running Caluurions because it's the only way to do enough damage to have any chance to compete with these brawlers.

Play what you want is a great mantra but most players, especially casually, want to do the damage of a 23k health NB on a 40k health Necro. Or at least that's what I observe.

This

TiberX

U know what they say: if u can't beat them, joinem! That's what I did.😂

soniku4ikblis

CaptainVenom wrote: »

One-handed builds don't work;

May you please be more specific? I personally don't know of one-handed builds. Intriguing.

CaptainVenom wrote: »

magicka hits like a wet toilet paper; stun is a must and two-handed is your only chance to win most of the time.

Magplar is in a good place at the moment. Clever Alchemist/Balorghs/Insert DPS gear and defense champion points are doing quite well for me and many others. In fact, the defense champion points are pretty high-end solid. It's possible to stay tanky if you want to be a magicka bralwer.

Stuns and immobilization have always been a part of PVP.

I'm sorry to hear you're having a poor go of it. I have been frustrated by this game countless times and, thankfully, the base mechanics of PVP are still enjoyable enough that I simply come back another day. ZOS is listening to the player-base (finally).

Btw, NBs cannot one shot me anymore. I backbar Major and Minor protection. (Shield helps after break.) I would think NBs would be pretty frustrated about that lol.

divnyi

My last 2 characters have no stun abilities on them. Idk what's your problem, but you definitely can play this game in any way you want, if you know what you are doing.

divnyi

Vevvev wrote: »

Been playing around with a Simmering Frenzy vampire build lately and the one thing I got rid of to make room for it was a stun. Very brute force way of doing things and I've met mixed results with it. I really do need an unblockable stun for those block holding tanks with high recovery.

Have no stun in my simmering frenzy build. Snipe, Silver Shards / Poison Injection, Bombard. You either land it all in 2 GCD with a kill, or no stun is gonna help you.

When snipe stunned from sneak it was actually easier to execute. Now it's a reaction/guessing game. If they adapt to snipe snipe finisher setup and block/dodge after first snipe, you do snipe -> poison injection -> cloak and repeat fast. Two dots kick in after good portion of burst, not that easy to outheal.

vms11934

TiberX wrote: »

U know what they say: if u can't beat them, joinem! That's what I did.😂

Yeah, and you're far from alone. That's the real problem with the meta. Armies of super tanky or almost unkillable players all going against each other is making pvp increasingly ridiculous.

vms11934

divnyi wrote: »

Have no stun in my simmering frenzy build. Snipe, Silver Shards / Poison Injection, Bombard. You either land it all in 2 GCD with a kill, or no stun is gonna help you.

Are you saying a Snipe/Injection/Bombard series can be enough to kill most players?

divnyi

vms11934 wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Have no stun in my simmering frenzy build. Snipe, Silver Shards / Poison Injection, Bombard. You either land it all in 2 GCD with a kill, or no stun is gonna help you.

Are you saying a Snipe/Injection/Bombard series can be enough to kill most players?

Double snipe injection is like ~24k with simmering. Bombards on top because that's source of undodgeable instant damage.

Not all, but all squishys and up to fighters that sleep on danger.

techyeshic

EmperorIl wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

What happened to that beautiful and inspiring "play how you want" mantra I heard so much about? Because from what I see, stun/gank/executioner isn't really how I want to play.

It's time to rethink pvp, ZOS. For non-meta (and by meta I mean the extremely strict two-handed/stun/gank), calling it a disgrace is a monumental understatement. One-handed builds don't work; magicka hits like a wet toilet paper; stun is a must and two-handed is your only chance to win most of the time.

Really, I enjoy pvp and competitive games, but this is becoming awful.

We're playing two different games right now because all I see are unkillable tanks, shield sorcs, and MagDKs.

All I hear is Ratfinks, Suicide Tanks, and Cannibal Girls.

geonsocal

i play a bunch of different builds, some are really hard to gank, even on a mount, afk ...some, if you sneeze on me while i'm reading the map - i'm dead...

i like a really clean UI, so, i pretty much just see folks' health bars...my understanding though is that to be successful at ganking folks - you need to be aware of who exactly you're attacking...

i don't really worry too much about getting jumped, i play solo and ride alone a lot, got a health draught quick slotted and ride around/stand around with a heal and shield ready...what worries me - is that player that comes running at me, when there are other allies around me, sometimes when i'm standing right in front of my own keep gate...

i really do not like to be part of the X - in a 1 v X...

when it comes to eso pvp, i think at this point, most of the casuals have left and gone home...it's mostly just us lifers out there now battling each other...

everyone is working really hard not to die

TheS1X

Stuns prevent people to burst heal, this is why they use it. When missed timing, opponent will heal and NB needs to escape because there is no more chance to win this battle.