Stamina DPS builds?

Teverus

I'm a returning player - I've been back to the game for a little over a month and am just now creeping into doing Veteran dungeons again. I was in a veteran dungeon earlier and a couple of randos were razzing my friend for running with a dualwield/bow stamina dps build instead of a magicka build. Is this where the meta is now, or were those guys just 100% being joy-vampires? Also, what's the expectation for races with stamina passives like orcs? Aren't they best optimized by following a stamina build? Thanks for any thoughts.

BejaProphet

Magicka builds are currently Meta in trials for two reasons. One is the extra penetration, the other is the way range DPS can simplify some mechanics. (I think this is accurate, more sweaty raiders, feel free to correct me)

But that being said, stamina DPS can still pull high enough damage to absolutely trivialize 4 man veteran dungeons. Anybody not giving you, or your friend, a chance is just because you are running Stam is being absolutely rediculous. Ignore them.

However, if you fail at your role as DD, you can expect the mocking to target your non meta features.

summ0004

Things change all the time frm patch to patch, and its just ridiculous that people are only playing magika builds in the meta tbh.

Unless you are going for achievements and high scores, you can play whatever you like as many different build styles have enough dps to clear content in the game providing you play it welll.

If that is how toxic the meta is, then my advice is to just not play it or find people people to play who are more open minded.

MashmalloMan

To your other question, the difference between the high and low end for race optimization regarding DPS is about 0-5%, so even if you don't have the best, you will do just fine provided you know what you're doing.

Eg. Someone using a Dark Elf getting 105k dps on a trial dummy should be able to achieve 100k with a Breton.

For best in slot, it probably goes something like this order:

1. Dark Elf - 258 Weapon Damage + 1.9k Stam OR Khajiit - 12% Crit Damage + 915 Stam + 85 Stam Regen
2. Orc - 258 Weapon Damage + 1k Stam
3. High Elf - 258 Weapon Damage
4. Wood Elf - 2k Stam + 950 Penetration + 258 Stam Regen (Roughly 200-220 Stam/s depending on class)
5. Redguard - 2k Stam + 1k Stam every 5s from Direct DMG (200 stam/s) + 8% Weapon Cost Reduction (Typically 500-1000 stamina saved every 10-14s rotation depending on your setup)
6. Imperial = 2k Stam + 6% Cost Reduction to Stamina AND Ultimates
7. Nord - 1.5k Stam
8. Argonian - 1k Stam + 3.1k Stam from Potions (67 stam/s)
9. Breton - Nothing

Khajiit may come out a tinnnny bit under Dark Elf because of the crit cap changes, but has better sustain so they're pretty much equal in my opinion. For solo/4 man content, sustain races like Wood Elf, Redguard and even Imperial can start to make up for the damage they're missing as you may get more oportunities to focus on damage as a result of higher sustain, in trials, this isn't possible so they remain mid range on the list.

ArcaneScientius

Hi. I am not a veteran, but a bow - dual wield build has great potential. Stack bleed and poison dots. Bow also has an interrupt skill that I am sure is also the poison dot morph and there is a minor breach skill morph if there is no tank debuffing the boss with M+m breach or if the mag guys only apply the major breach debuff.
Also, the dual ultimate is an excellent bleed over time damage. As is the bow ultimate but for poison.
Put some champ points into increasing damage/time, if you need more damage.

Edit: If you are playing as a warden you can stack even more bleed dots.

I would just ignore the puggies.

Teverus

Hey guys. Just dropping in to thank everyone for their thoughtful replies. I think the problem my friend and I faced earlier is that I rushed him into veteran dungeons without gear sets in place thinking that more difficult dungeons would be a fun way to gear. Some already geared players who wanted to farm alternate gear sets were getting impatient with my friend for his dps output, using mods to kind of just inspect why his dps was underperforming without maybe realizing his build was incomplete, and of course jumping to conclusions and passing judgment in a kind of pushy opinionated fashion. It put a dent in our fun for a little while and then we jumped into some veterans and some normals and really kind of got reacquainted with how much a preparedness leap normals -> veterans really is.

In the end, yeah, we bumped into some not-entirely-constructive criticisms, but it was my fault for dragging my friend in over his head without realizing the equipment preparedness gap he'd face. We spent some of last night getting him some good set gear that he chose for his character and discussing some good skill synergies. We'll ease into endgame a bit more slowly from now on, but I think he's got a decent hybrid bowzerker/dualwield thing going on now.

I appreciate all the helpful advice here in the forum, it helped me reach the proper perspective. It didn't seem right that Stamina was so under the meta that people would complain about stam-dps specifically. I think it was probably the most obvious low-hanging fruit for a couple of well-geared players hoping to slam out a run for alternate gear.

hafgood

Gear whilst hping doesn't make high damage, it's a mistake to think it does.

What makes high damage is Weaving and Rotation. Get them right and then you can enhance with good gear. Get them wrong and the best gear just makes you a pretty potato.

I play Stamplar, have done everything (except arenas) on vet, including some DLC Trial HM's. There is nothing wrong with DW/Bow, it works well. So don't listen to those poking fun at stam but do make sure to learn to weave and to learn your rotation. Because once you have, you will be out performing many of those mag's that were being obnoxious.

ixthUA

With 20k combined DPS (~3k from tank and ~4k from healer, so DDs need to do around 13k DPS) any non-DLC veteran dungeon can be passed, and doing 7k DPS is not hard. So it's about impatience, and farming gear in veteran dungeons is very time-inefficient.

vesselwiththepestle

Just use a vma destro staff on your backbar instead of vma bow and they will think you are a meta mag dps builds with dw daggers . Keep in mind you can get arena weapons from the normal versions. Last patch I was dealing actually more dps with a destro backbar than with a vma bow on my Stam DK, even using the destro ulti in trash fights and short boss fights.

In 4-player-content it might help if the tank runs some penetration support set, though. Usually putting on something like Tremorscale should be enough.

BejaProphet

ixthUA wrote: »

With 20k combined DPS (~3k from tank and ~4k from healer, so DDs need to do around 13k DPS) any non-DLC veteran dungeon can be passed, and doing 7k DPS is not hard. So it's about impatience, and farming gear in veteran dungeons is very time-inefficient.

😳

20k total group DPS?!? I confess, a lot of vet dungeons can potentially be slogged through at that pace, but I’d rather win a free root canal.

A damage dealer is not a damage dealer at 7k DPS any more than a guy without a taunt is a tank.

Sun7dance

BejaProphet wrote: »

Magicka builds are currently Meta in trials for two reasons. One is the extra penetration, the other is the way range DPS can simplify some mechanics. (I think this is accurate, more sweaty raiders, feel free to correct me)

[...]

There is at least one other reason and that is the group support.
Magickas have skills like the bubble (heureka, sustain for everyone!) and sets like Z'en, Catalyst (could be a problem now!), Encratis (mostly on Tank or Heal) and since the latest Update even Kinras', if Minor Beserk is really needed.

And what do Staminas have?
Kinra's isn't stamina only now!
So let me think...we have Night Mother's Gaze...ah, damn,...nerfed!
Hey, we have Sunderflame...ah, damn,...nerfed!
Maybe Tremorscale then? Ah, damn,...no player would run a set just for 1 or 2 Staminas in a raid group.

Maybe Gourmet could be the winner, but is it really needed? Good groups don't need more Major Force uptime. Ok, Empower for 10sec isn't bad for sure, but thing is, players must pick it up first and then have 33% chance to get the right bonus.
I dont' know...

Why the hell ZOS makes stamina supporting sets so complicated?

Vevvev

ixthUA wrote: »

With 20k combined DPS (~3k from tank and ~4k from healer, so DDs need to do around 13k DPS) any non-DLC veteran dungeon can be passed, and doing 7k DPS is not hard. So it's about impatience, and farming gear in veteran dungeons is very time-inefficient.

7k DPS is the bottom of the barrel in terms of DPS. That's a beginner who has no idea what they're doing but has this one ability that kinda hits pretty hard so they cast it and only it. 15k is around the point where the beginner doesn't have a real build but they understand how ESO's combat system works and can use their abilities to modest effect. A group below 30k combined DPS (ignoring tank and healer) is going to be experiencing a brutal slog in my opinion. Doable? Maybe, but don't go expecting to have an enjoyable time in DLC dungeons, especially at veteran difficulty.

El_Borracho

ixthUA wrote: »

With 20k combined DPS (~3k from tank and ~4k from healer, so DDs need to do around 13k DPS) any non-DLC veteran dungeon can be passed, and doing 7k DPS is not hard. So it's about impatience, and farming gear in veteran dungeons is very time-inefficient.

This is way off. If 20K total DPS is all you need, then anyone can solo a vet dungeon. I think I can get more than 20K DPS by just light attacking.

lozq

ixthUA wrote: »

With 20k combined DPS (~3k from tank and ~4k from healer, so DDs need to do around 13k DPS) any non-DLC veteran dungeon can be passed, and doing 7k DPS is not hard. So it's about impatience, and farming gear in veteran dungeons is very time-inefficient.

If you mean 'you can grind down any boss' then you're technically correct, but realistically you want at LEAST twice that amount. You could hypothetically complete a lot of veteran content with a group of four tanks, but why on earth would you want to?

I also feel like a group where the tank and healer are contributing a total of 7k DPS suggests they're running very support-focussed meta builds, which is pretty pointless if the DPS you're buffing is ~10k. When this happens I discreetly and tactfully chuck the DSA 2H on my backbar and carve my way to glory.

ixthUA

20k DPS is the average team total DPS i get in PUG vet dungeons, average CP is around 200-250 (often below 160), average base game vet dungeon duration is 40 min. Still not a single dungeon failed.

Tanks in vet dungeons are either new (usually using HP gear) or 1000+ CP in support sets, not fake tanks.

Being a healer, i use support sets because they benefit the entire group (a lot of resource regeneration and weapon/spell damage), including me. I can get 1000 weapon/spell damage with siroria x diamond victory for myself only, or 700 weapon/spell damage for the entire group (including me), which is better?

Everest_Lionheart

Sun7dance wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

Magicka builds are currently Meta in trials for two reasons. One is the extra penetration, the other is the way range DPS can simplify some mechanics. (I think this is accurate, more sweaty raiders, feel free to correct me)

[...]

There is at least one other reason and that is the group support.
Magickas have skills like the bubble (heureka, sustain for everyone!) and sets like Z'en, Catalyst (could be a problem now!), Encratis (mostly on Tank or Heal) and since the latest Update even Kinras', if Minor Beserk is really needed.

And what do Staminas have?
Kinra's isn't stamina only now!
So let me think...we have Night Mother's Gaze...ah, damn,...nerfed!
Hey, we have Sunderflame...ah, damn,...nerfed!
Maybe Tremorscale then? Ah, damn,...no player would run a set just for 1 or 2 Staminas in a raid group.

Maybe Gourmet could be the winner, but is it really needed? Good groups don't need more Major Force uptime. Ok, Empower for 10sec isn't bad for sure, but thing is, players must pick it up first and then have 33% chance to get the right bonus.
I dont' know...

Why the hell ZOS makes stamina supporting sets so complicated?

Plenty of people shackled when I told them I was going to run ele cat on my Stamden. They chuckled even more when they saw I was using a vMA lightning staff with a flame enchant on my back bar. They laughed even harder when I paired it with Bahsei on the body and ran Magicka flies instead of stamina flies.

They stopped laughing when I still broke 105K on the 21mil. Then I got several people worm personality running that same setup. Nobody laughs at the setup any more.

So I decided to throw Zen and deadly on it next. Managed 99K on the 21mil. Those are numbers that mag toons are getting in the same sets. Stam can wear those sets if you build for them.

Athan1

Stamina is good for pvp and tanking. Stamina DD in pve is problematic because it's difficult to approach most bosses, and only Warden makes proper use of the bow. Quite frankly though, I'm enjoying playing a stamina healer.

Fizzyapple

Bosmer Bow/Bow Stamwarden.






Bosmer do everything better.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

I just run Alkosh on my StamDK, because if pen is an issue, I'll just bring my own. Before deadlands, I ran the set with kinras, and it did so well, that I'd get speed runs in vet with randos. Now that the set can crits, I slap AY on with it and the proc kinda does my work for me.