Bow-Bow Build

Jerkica

Hi:

I could use advice for my bowblade (bow-bow build). I used to be pretty current on things, but these days I mostly only play with scheduled groups and I'm behind.

What is best in slot for gear these days for my build? I know that they just made magika sets give weapon damage and whatnot. The problem is that bow-bow kinda requires using arena bows on front/back bars (or it did when I was current with things). That means to use light/heavy armor, I either lose the arena bows, which are the only real good items in game geared to the bow-bow build, or I have to have two pieces of light/heavy armor.

My current strat is to use kinras/relequen for single target (with master's bow/vateshran bow and maelstrom bow on back bar, depending on the fight), and VO/kinras (master's bow and asylum's bow) for multi target (i.e. trash mobs and bosses with lots of trash).

Any thoughts on improving my gear combos to improve DPS?

RandomKodiak

Hi I main a Stamsorc bow/bow but have played all the classes. Tzogvin's Warband is a bow/bows best friend Great crit chance and has extra pen which is always useful for Stam. I run Tzogvin's/Reli front bar with MA bow backbar. If you are not using the Kilt and a 1 piece Slimecraw, I suggest Stormfist as a Monster set, it is hitting like a truck right now and can be procced from a distance. For trash groups switch to Tzogvin's/Kinras's. Remember with the new crit damage cap at 125% if you are Khajiit you will have to switch around some CP (depending on level) but easy to do and you get extra damage out of the deal. Hope this helps.

Jerkica

Thanks. The problem with tzogvins for a nightblade is we reach crit cap easier than other classes. Based on parses, tzogvins is worse for me than relequen.

Also, do you find monster set better than front/back bar arena bows? I just tend to assume arena bow is better, because they're more bow-bow specific than monster sets, many of which are distance dependent.

Ippokrates

Well, i am currently playing with bow/bow builds and learning how things works, cause finally i was able to get Asylum bow ^^

IMHO penetration is crucial. Unlike magicka or melee builds, bows do not have extra penetration so depending on type of pve content: solo, 4-man or trial, you will need to somehow cover missing penetration, that could be somewhere between 12k solo (if you have source of major breach) to around 4k (with good tank with additional reduction), but usually be somewhere around 6-8k.

If you are playing Warden, you can use Stuhn on front bar - this set is really great and let all your skills punching with max efficiency in vet dung (regular dps 35k, not in dummy hugging) & i found it useful even in pvp (broke my first record of 24 kills ).

But if you are playing any other class, source of pen could be a problem.

If you wanna use your class skills, playing for example Necro you need to get sharpened bow that will give you 3k pen, and with Heartland Conqueror (which is also a great set) you can increase this bonus to 6k+. Plus as another bonus, if you will use HC on body, your backbar infused bow with weapon glyph will raise to ca. 550 dmg.

But if you are playing other classes that do not use class skills but rather rely on bow tree, like DK, Templar or Stamsorc, i would rather advice to take Asylum bow on frontbar - this will solve all your pen issues, let you choose precision trait and help you in keeping hawk eye bonus - weaving with other than bow tree skills sometimes get tricky

NB is probably most difficult class, as it is using mix of class and weapon skills, so you just need to plan it for yourself -_-

Of course you can try to cummulate penetration in other ways, using bosmer, taking sets like NMA, Tzogvin or Red Eagle or putting few light armour pieces (max 2 if you wanna use shuffle) but imho it is just too much micromanagement to keep a reasonable penetration - it is far better to focus on sets focused purely on dmg or crit. It is just more efficient. Plus you will not harm your sustain.

So Rele is a really good choice but if you want to optimize it, i will advise some good dmg set that will increase your winds power ^^, like Diamond's Victory (rele doesn't crit). DV works with Asylum bow and skills like warden bugs or NB reaper's mark or leeching strikes. Optionally Kinras as it will enhance Rele too.

But if you are going for crit build, i would rather ignore Rele and replace it with Yandir (SulXan is the best if you wouldn't mind to run for the ghosts and manage to keeping its uptime ^^). Then as a second set you can get Tzogvin or Dragonguard Elite (which is imho better than Tzogvin but it was always getting tricky with backstabber - to use both you need to stand in very specific place ^^ Now with crit dmg cap it is not so much issue now. Plus minor force you can get from FG light trap). This way you should have really good balance of dmg & crit, which is crucial for U32.

And of course backbar - the best option would be probably Maelstorm, unless your build can do a lot of dots - then Master could be comparable option.

But with those two sets + Asylum on front and Maelstorm/Master on back, you do not have much more place for monster set or mythic on most classes.

Basically only Warden and Necro can get this (with trial set on body+Stuhn on front OR trial set on front and HC on body), so you can use Slim+Kilt or monster. I am currently running Molag Kena, it is really easy to keep with bows, it works great with HawkEye and improve your Rele winds with additional dmg). Other sets are fun to use but in terms of dmg improvement, Molag is the best.

RandomKodiak

Jerkica For reference as to bows.




For NB Just switch out one or both of the crit damage CPs as needed to stay as close to 125% as possible.
Same toon with Stormfist monster set instead of kilt/slimecraw was only 1k less damage

RandomKodiak

@Jerkica Not used to doing NB and I have shakey hands so I can never get the Relentless proc off without screwing up the rotation but here's a quick NB bow parse. One off didn't crit hunt as you can tell from LA and Lethal.

RandomKodiak

Hope that helps or at least gives you ideas

CP5

As it hasn't been mentioned, yet I would also like to suggest the blackrose bow as a decent front bar option if you want to run either 2 5p sets on both bars. The damage that dot provides is actually pretty decent and while I ignored it for a while, in sunspire you get the max duration on the dot by just taking a few steps away from the dragon's kill field and in many other trials and dungeons not only is the dot good but the utility to knock mobs around can be useful.

summ0004

I have dabbled in bow bow builds on my nightblade and can never decide on what front bar option is best for me.

I have the vateshran bow, blackrose bow, or normal bow and monster set options(2x 1pcs or stormfist) and honestly dont know which option to go for.

The normal bow and monster set gives the best stats, but the vateshran bow buffs snipe, and the blackrose gives a decent DOT so cant decide.

MudcrabAttack

Funny you should mention Vateshran bow, I noticed it dealing an improved dps on the Nightblade bow build relative to past updates since the relentless focus now builds up 300 weapon damage - as long as you never fire off an assassin's scourge. My playstyle is built to deal maximum dps up close, so I use killers blade, soul harvest, barbed trap. The option to deal decent enough dps from range is always there if needed. Blackrose bow deals the maximium dps, but I hate running back and forth like a lunatic so I stick with melee range most of the time.

With Vateshran equipped the rotation looks like snipe / snipe /snipe / snipe /snipe / snipe /snipe / snipe / endless hail / twisting path / darkshade / etc




This was a test on the pts, I like using harpooners kilt, so I would drop the other 5 piece set and slot Kjalnar's monster set + 2 pieces that add crit. The only other thing to take into account is penetration, as a nightblade you have a lot of it already so maybe you would run 2 pieces of light armor to get to max when running with mages.


Kinras / relequen deals almost the same amount of dps for me, Here is my live build:

Fizzyapple

I did this with the Blackrose Prison bow front bar and MA bow back bar with Rele and Agility. There are many different things you can do with bows these days. You can also replace Agility with Eagle Eye and get the same results (106k). No minor force needed I just stopped using it entirely.

summ0004

So are the arena bows(masters, BRP and Vateshran) better than running a monster helm set?

Fizzyapple

I believe so. If you look at my parse above BRP (Virulent Shot) out performs most everything at range. If you include scattershot (magnum shot) which is the skill used with the BRP bow you have 10.2%+2.7& = 12.9%. That places it right above sub assault.

I haven't played around with many monster sets since patch but the ones I tested were not performing significantly better than they were before the patch. Keep in mind there are not many great monster sets (not one that really stands out) for a bow/bow user save a couple.

The issue is of course the requirements placed on bow users to achieve optimal results from arena bows (everything really). You have to be ever mindful of range percentages and timing. If I'm too close the DoT from BRP decreases from a max of 12 secs down to 4 incrementally.

Then there are our passives to consider. One passive adds 12% to damage based on how far away I am which decreases the closer I get. The vat bow increases damage to snipe the closer I am. You can see how difficult things can get until you get the hang of it. Another passive adds damage based on light attacks which absolutely have to fire once a second to keep up the stacks. Its a constant game of distance and numbers.

Now if you play bow/bow (warden) and you have skills with different ranges like shalks then you need to be close enough that it lands while maximizing all the rest. Dive has a range req to set off balance. etc. etc. It's quite possibly the most difficult setup to play well but it is also the most rewarding imo.

So the next time your in a trial and you see your good natured Bosmer with a bow at distance you'll understand why. It's not because they hate to be stacked like sardines with the rest of the herd (although they do).

Totally underrated. Go with Bosmer

RandomKodiak

Fizzyapple wrote: »

Totally underrated. Go with Bosmer

Master Race ^^

Fizzyapple

I decided to do two parses on PTS just to make sure everything I said about the monster helm versus BRP is true and to give you a little more confirmation on that and I want to convince you to try Bow/Bow because there are so few of us and it kicks the pants off most other styles of play. The first parse I am using my build which incudes Agility BRP bow Relequen Kilt and one piece Slimcraw. The second parse I am wearing Relequen Tzogvrins and Stormfist. The skills cp rotation etc everything is as close to the same as I could humanly get without doing more than one each because parsing is BORING. lol.. ok.





I feel that 12k for BRP is pretty impressive but it would be totally fair if we add the 2.7k from scatter shot to that giving us 14.7k for one arena weapon. No mythic or anything compares. As you can see if used correctly it is one of the strongest sets in the game.

Now I'm sure we could mix this around and create something that incorporates Stormfist but maybe we can look at it again another day I'm all parsed out 2 or 3 and I'm done.

Take care and I hope to see you around Tamriel firing a bow (and stealing shinies from the Altmer).