Corrupting Bloody Mara... trolling vampires or just a happy accident?

drsalvation

Are the devs trolling us vampires with the effects, was it unintentional or am I misunderstanding the purpose?
Corrupting Bloody Mara drops you down to vamp stage 4, it increases your max health and magicka by a lot, BUT it also adds 505 health recovery...
Shouldn't the health recovery be part of the Purifying Bloody Mara instead? Vampires at stage 4 have 0% health recovery, you get a nice effect which becomes useless unless you're not a vampire.
Far as I remember you can only wait your vamp stage off to the previous level, but if you wait it out, your food buff will wear out before you even get there. If you use Purifying, you cancel the effect anyway, the only alternative I can see to make it viable is with a vamp fountain you buy off the crown store.

So again, was that intentionally to either troll vampires or force to spend crowns on the fountain, or was that an overlooked effect, or was there a purpose to serve some balancing issues I'm not yet aware of?

drsalvation

I mean, it's already bad that even at stage 1 there's a 10% drop on health recovery, wouldn't it make a bit of sense that a vampire could drink those to mitigate some of their side-effects?

Vevvev

Accident and then stubbornness.

When we brought it up on the Greymoor PTS they refused to change the food effects despite numerous feedback on the matter.

Grandchamp1989

Mag recovery would make more sense IMO.

drsalvation

dang, it's been that long? I doubt it's a MUST to fix since there's other foods and other ways to compensate, it just seems like a way out of place "buff" for a vampiric drink that drops your regen to 0%
It would be a lot easier to just remove the health regen buff instead lol

drsalvation

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Mag recovery would make more sense IMO.

Yeah, that too.

Cirantille

It used to add health recovery in the old-vampire system

They didn't change the description, i do not know why

xeNNNNN

Possibly but what most of us do at least in PvP to take full advantage of mitigation (particularly on my magnecro) is take corrupting, then take purifying. Immediately bumping yourself down to stage 3 instead of 4 because stage 3 is alls thats required for the undeath passive. I honestly dont know why beyond immersion and role play reasons anyone would want to be stage 4 lol Unless its some sort of stealth build I guess.

That said, I mean yeah it probably should be changed seeing as it doesn't make sense and its cancelled out by purifying when reducing to stage 3.

Its also from a different time when the vampire skill line was different (before the rework).

Vevvev

xeNNNNN wrote: »

I honestly dont know why beyond immersion and role play reasons anyone would want to be stage 4 lol Unless its some sort of stealth build I guess..

Aggressive ambushing and cheaper sprinting primarily. It's amazing how much freedom the passive gives you in terms of engagement options if you get the drop on someone. Cheaper sprint helps while chasing or running from a situation, but in combat it is very.... niche. Stage 4 is also super useful in the Imperial City due to all the back stabbing, close quarters fighting, and hostile NPC forces.

drsalvation

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Possibly but what most of us do at least in PvP to take full advantage of mitigation (particularly on my magnecro) is take corrupting, then take purifying. Immediately bumping yourself down to stage 3 instead of 4 because stage 3 is alls thats required for the undeath passive. I honestly dont know why beyond immersion and role play reasons anyone would want to be stage 4 lol Unless its some sort of stealth build I guess.

That said, I mean yeah it probably should be changed seeing as it doesn't make sense and its cancelled out by purifying when reducing to stage 3.

Its also from a different time when the vampire skill line was different (before the rework).

I remember the old days before vampire lord morph, there was only "Bloody Mara" drinks. After the rework they became "Purifying bloody mara" (I know because all my regular bloody drinks turned to purifying, the purifying recipe didn't change from the original recipe either, and it was until fairly recently that I discovered the corrupting version). And the regular drink would increase your vamp stage by 1 (AKA, reducing your vamp skill line). I can see how confusing that could be for devs to remember which option gives you stages, which one reduces, and if increasing or reducing was supposed to improve or reduce your vamp skills.
That said, the corrupting version is quite hard to make, but wouldn't it make more sense if it increases your vamp stage by 1 instead of all the way to 4?
Or as someone said above, instead of health regen, maybe make it a magic regen?
Or just completely remove it so that we don't waste time trying to make it useful on vamp characters lol (the health regen passive, not the drink itself lol)

Stage 4 is fun on story content tho lol (it's the only way I could think of making story content an actual challenge... that plus gaze of sithis, even tho I have lots of CP on blocking, shame I need to nerf myself like that tho), and I'd assume it would work well with thieves and assassins on heists or sacraments.

Vevvev

drsalvation wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Possibly but what most of us do at least in PvP to take full advantage of mitigation (particularly on my magnecro) is take corrupting, then take purifying. Immediately bumping yourself down to stage 3 instead of 4 because stage 3 is alls thats required for the undeath passive. I honestly dont know why beyond immersion and role play reasons anyone would want to be stage 4 lol Unless its some sort of stealth build I guess.

That said, I mean yeah it probably should be changed seeing as it doesn't make sense and its cancelled out by purifying when reducing to stage 3.

Its also from a different time when the vampire skill line was different (before the rework).

That said, the corrupting version is quite hard to make, but wouldn't it make more sense if it increases your vamp stage by 1 instead of all the way to 4?

Back in the day the Disastrously Corrupting Bloody Mara's straight to stage 4 was thought of as a kind of "debuff" for getting the health regeneration to combat the vampire HP recovery debuff. It was an incentive to feed on targets immediately after drinking it to reduce the debuffs on you after drinking it.

With the vampire rework and the flip on what feeding does ZOS thought just changing the names on the drinks would be enough to accurately describe what it was doing to you. The design philosophy of the drinks were not adjusted however to be more in line with the change, and they probably thought this drink sending you straight to stage 4 would be a buff because they designed it so "feeding makes you stronger!" so you'd want to always be stage 4, but also had the thought process of "this power comes at a price.". Why the stage debuffs are so painful and I honestly think they went a little overboard on the HP recovery at stage 4... Next logical progression of it would be -90% HP regen.... not -100%.

Chrysa1is

I just think that vampires are a confusing mess right now and ZOS don't know where to go with them.

notyuu

You...do relise that non-vampires can use the drink too, right?

Vevvev

notyuu wrote: »

You...do relise that non-vampires can use the drink too, right?

Yes, but a drink designed for vampires should cater to them, no? Like Dark Convergence being a PvP set will be balanced around that despite it being great in PvE to.

drsalvation

notyuu wrote: »

You...do relise that non-vampires can use the drink too, right?

of course I do.
It's a vampiric drink tho, it's a drink that puts you on a stage with 0 health regen BUT the drink gives you a 505 health recovery. For non-vampires, it makes no difference if you drink the purifying or the corrupting version, both give you the same health and magic, but the corrupting version specifically gives you more health recovery (but sets vampires on a stage where this health recovery becomes completely void and null), so for non-vampires, what difference would it make to drink either purifying or corrupting versions? Non-vampires could drink the purifying version for the health regen instead of the corrupting one, it makes no difference (other than it's easier to create). For vampires, it makes a big difference if you want that extra bonus.

So again: A vampiric drink with a bonus that becomes useless for vampires.
I'm not saying the drink is completely useless.
It's just illogical that a health regen buff will be completely mitigated on a drink that's focused on vampires.

If stage 4 had 90% reduction instead of 0, it would make perfect sense, because now the way you get to vampirism stage 4 would matter, if you eat people, you get no health regen bonus, if you get to stage 4 through the drink, you get a buff that helps you mitigate one of the nerfs of vampirism.


To be fair, I didn't really think this discussion would lead to finding better alternatives to how this should work lol...
Either vamp stage 4 should have 90% health regen nerf instead of 0, or the corrupting drink should give magicka regen instead of health, OR the health regen should be on the purifying version, not the corrupting one.

And while I'm at it, I think a stage 0 for vampirism (where you can't use any vampire skills, but you get to be more 'human' without any the nerfs, and even make your skin look normal instead of pale) would be a nice addition. Or at the very least, a way to sustain vampire lord... I don't think I've ever met anybody who uses the stage 5 vamp lord morph...
And if they do, how is that working out? Is there any value to it?

FeedbackOnly

It's a legacy before negative health recovery

TX12001rwb17_ESO

They should just implement my idea of how Vampirism stages should work, as you go up stages you gain Health Recovery at the cost of healing from outside sources, makes the Vampires stronger solo then mortals but weaker then them in groups.

gamma71

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

They should just implement my idea of how Vampirism stages should work, as you go up stages you gain Health Recovery at the cost of healing from outside sources, makes the Vampires stronger solo then mortals but weaker then them in groups.

In most lore vamps are hard to kill because they Regen so fast. Of course zos has to be contrary just for the sake of it. Vamp is such a mess now.

They really should make vamp like they do werewolf s we're u have a set skill bar say at stage 4. Problem is there trying to balance the normal skills with the vampire skills all at the same time.

And as we have seen with a set like Dc there pretty clueless on how to balance anything.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

gamma71 wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

They should just implement my idea of how Vampirism stages should work, as you go up stages you gain Health Recovery at the cost of healing from outside sources, makes the Vampires stronger solo then mortals but weaker then them in groups.

In most lore vamps are hard to kill because they Regen so fast. Of course zos has to be contrary just for the sake of it. Vamp is such a mess now.

They really should make vamp like they do werewolf s we're u have a set skill bar say at stage 4. Problem is there trying to balance the normal skills with the vampire skills all at the same time.

And as we have seen with a set like Dc there pretty clueless on how to balance anything.

Actually they are hard to kill because they are undead and cannot be fatally wounded as easily.

Vevvev

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

gamma71 wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

They should just implement my idea of how Vampirism stages should work, as you go up stages you gain Health Recovery at the cost of healing from outside sources, makes the Vampires stronger solo then mortals but weaker then them in groups.

In most lore vamps are hard to kill because they Regen so fast. Of course zos has to be contrary just for the sake of it. Vamp is such a mess now.

They really should make vamp like they do werewolf s we're u have a set skill bar say at stage 4. Problem is there trying to balance the normal skills with the vampire skills all at the same time.

And as we have seen with a set like Dc there pretty clueless on how to balance anything.

Actually they are hard to kill because they are undead and cannot be fatally wounded as easily.

It really depends on the story. Everyone has to be unique and TES vamps can't regenerate health in the sun.... Unless it's ESO vamps. They can't heal at all while well feed x.x

Funny how it's a trope that everyone's vampires have to be different lol.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurVampiresAreDifferent

xeNNNNN

Vevvev wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

You...do relise that non-vampires can use the drink too, right?

Yes, but a drink designed for vampires should cater to them, no? Like Dark Convergence being a PvP set will be balanced around that despite it being great in PvE to.

Heh the keyword being "balanced"

The Dark Elder Convergence Online everybody!

P.s its still [snip] in battlegrounds just slightly less. I will never understand why they didn't just completely rework it to work with out the pull but work as some sort of secondary detonation to bomb builds. The damage was never a problem for me barely scratches my magcro, it was the pull that messed me up all the time and still does. Always that damned pull lol

[edited for rude/insulting comment]

xeNNNNN

Vevvev wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

I honestly dont know why beyond immersion and role play reasons anyone would want to be stage 4 lol Unless its some sort of stealth build I guess..

Aggressive ambushing and cheaper sprinting primarily. It's amazing how much freedom the passive gives you in terms of engagement options if you get the drop on someone. Cheaper sprint helps while chasing or running from a situation, but in combat it is very.... niche. Stage 4 is also super useful in the Imperial City due to all the back stabbing, close quarters fighting, and hostile NPC forces.

I figured as much, that stage is definitely a "unique" (imagine air quotes using fingers) situation or build choice.

Vevvev

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

You...do relise that non-vampires can use the drink too, right?

Yes, but a drink designed for vampires should cater to them, no? Like Dark Convergence being a PvP set will be balanced around that despite it being great in PvE to.

Heh the keyword being "balanced"

The Dark Elder Convergence Online everybody!

P.s its still cancer in battlegrounds just slightly less. I will never understand why they didn't just completely rework it to work with out the pull but work as some sort of secondary detonation to bomb builds. The damage was never a problem for me barely scratches my magcro, it was the pull that messed me up all the time and still does. Always that damned pull lol

I didn't say it was balanced LOL! Just that it would be balanced around PvP.... when ZOS finally gets around to that..... any day now.... They're going to remove it, right?

drsalvation

[snip]
Back to bloody mara.
Please add the health regen to purifying versions instead! Or rework vamp, but I think the former is a lot easier!

[edited for inappropriate content]

deleted220614-000183

I think your Bloody Mara problems will heal itself as Daedra Heart (needed for preparation) already increased price 1000x times and you will probably not have enough golds to drink anything as expensive as healing potion (wink)-

drsalvation

trpajzla wrote: »

I think your Bloody Mara problems will heal itself as Daedra Heart (needed for preparation) already increased price 1000x times and you will probably not have enough golds to drink anything as expensive as healing potion (wink)-

dang really? I have a bunch of hearts piled up, mostly from the daedra in imperial city.
Well, then there's no reason to not fix the versions of each drink!

Vevvev

drsalvation wrote: »

trpajzla wrote: »

I think your Bloody Mara problems will heal itself as Daedra Heart (needed for preparation) already increased price 1000x times and you will probably not have enough golds to drink anything as expensive as healing potion (wink)-

dang really? I have a bunch of hearts piled up, mostly from the daedra in imperial city.
Well, then there's no reason to not fix the versions of each drink!

I don't think so. Daedra hearts are so easy to acquire with any kind of jaunt into a Daedric zone. Real limiting factor is the Dragon blood for the Corrupting version, but Dragon blood being a corruptor while Daedric blood is not is.... Weird. Feel like they should be flipped or something, idk.

xeNNNNN

Vevvev wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

You...do relise that non-vampires can use the drink too, right?

Yes, but a drink designed for vampires should cater to them, no? Like Dark Convergence being a PvP set will be balanced around that despite it being great in PvE to.

Heh the keyword being "balanced"

The Dark Elder Convergence Online everybody!

P.s its still cancer in battlegrounds just slightly less. I will never understand why they didn't just completely rework it to work with out the pull but work as some sort of secondary detonation to bomb builds. The damage was never a problem for me barely scratches my magcro, it was the pull that messed me up all the time and still does. Always that damned pull lol

I didn't say it was balanced LOL! Just that it would be balanced around PvP.... when ZOS finally gets around to that..... any day now.... They're going to remove it, right?

Haha xD I know....I keep thinking i'll see something, anything....

I might go insane before they actually do something about it. The "nerf" was almost good. They were so close...but they only slightly nerfed the pull xD

They probably won't do anything though sadly, its extremely useful in PvE. Unless of course there is all of a sudden an unnecessary amount of speed run completions lol