Maintenance for the week of March 3:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – March 3
• NA megaservers for maintenance – March 5, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 11:00AM EST (16:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – March 5, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 16:00 UTC (11:00AM EST)
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 6, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EST (21:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – March 3
• NA megaservers for maintenance – March 5, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 11:00AM EST (16:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – March 5, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 16:00 UTC (11:00AM EST)
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 6, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EST (21:00 UTC)
The main story is written like a book
Gleitfrosch
✭✭✭✭
The title is my conclusion to the question why I enjoy the sidequests more than the main story.
In a book, the writer creates the characters based on his own expectations towards what these should be and how they should behave abd the decisions these characters make fit the personalities the writer wanted to give them. Also the reader can easier accept the decisions the characters make, even if they do not agree with them, because by reading the book, he experiences the adventures of someone else.
In a game where every player creates his own character and can become everything, from a nice healer priest who tries to make the world a bit better every day to an assassin necromancer who just looks at his own advantage, the bookwriting approach does not work for everyone.
Like in a book, decisions are predefined in the game by the ideas and expectations of the story writer and only fit to players who have the same moralic compass and intentions like the writer has. For other players, who would act different than the writer, the predifined answers and decisions are more or less breaking the immersion how these players see their own characters and what they want them to be in the game.
The sidequests have a far shorter stories and therefore leave less options for the writer to make the decisions for the players. Also there are some points in side quests which at least give players the illusion of making a decision. Will we save the NPC or let him die? While there is no real effect on the game, the player can choose the answer they see most fitting for their character. Such options are missing at many points in the main stories.
A good game story writer should be able to think beyond his own decisions and try to consider decisions and options which other people would choose, be it good or evil. It is still possible (but difficult) to lead these decisions to the same or very similar results, but it improves the experience of all players.
Of course that would require a bigger effort than writing the story just from one perspective ,like in a book. But that should also be the requirement if someone wants to write good game stories.
EDIT:
And of course because side quests do not have the "who are you again and what am I doing here" questions
Edited by Gleitfrosch on November 2, 2021 12:14PM In a book, the writer creates the characters based on his own expectations towards what these should be and how they should behave abd the decisions these characters make fit the personalities the writer wanted to give them. Also the reader can easier accept the decisions the characters make, even if they do not agree with them, because by reading the book, he experiences the adventures of someone else.
In a game where every player creates his own character and can become everything, from a nice healer priest who tries to make the world a bit better every day to an assassin necromancer who just looks at his own advantage, the bookwriting approach does not work for everyone.
Like in a book, decisions are predefined in the game by the ideas and expectations of the story writer and only fit to players who have the same moralic compass and intentions like the writer has. For other players, who would act different than the writer, the predifined answers and decisions are more or less breaking the immersion how these players see their own characters and what they want them to be in the game.
The sidequests have a far shorter stories and therefore leave less options for the writer to make the decisions for the players. Also there are some points in side quests which at least give players the illusion of making a decision. Will we save the NPC or let him die? While there is no real effect on the game, the player can choose the answer they see most fitting for their character. Such options are missing at many points in the main stories.
A good game story writer should be able to think beyond his own decisions and try to consider decisions and options which other people would choose, be it good or evil. It is still possible (but difficult) to lead these decisions to the same or very similar results, but it improves the experience of all players.
Of course that would require a bigger effort than writing the story just from one perspective ,like in a book. But that should also be the requirement if someone wants to write good game stories.
EDIT:
And of course because side quests do not have the "who are you again and what am I doing here" questions
5
-
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Gleitfrosch wrote: »A good game story writer should be able to think beyond his own decisions and try to consider decisions and options which other people would choose, be it good or evil. It is still possible (but difficult) to lead these decisions to the same or very similar results, but it improves the experience of all players.
Of course that would require a bigger effort than writing the story just from one perspective ,like in a book. But that should also be the requirement if someone wants to write good game stories.
Definitely.
If you stop and think about it, every player-driven or character-driven branch in the story is a different story, with different dialog, and potentially different scenes, locations, and outcome. This can easily escalate the size and complexity of the quest, which has to have limits set in place for a variety of reasons, from budget to technical.
Not disagreeing with anything in particular, but I am also never expecting the ESO writing team to create anything but a theme park ride. We get in on one end, ride through the story, then get out when the story is done.
2 -
Gleitfrosch✭✭✭✭Gleitfrosch wrote: »A good game story writer should be able to think beyond his own decisions and try to consider decisions and options which other people would choose, be it good or evil. It is still possible (but difficult) to lead these decisions to the same or very similar results, but it improves the experience of all players.
Of course that would require a bigger effort than writing the story just from one perspective ,like in a book. But that should also be the requirement if someone wants to write good game stories.
Definitely.
If you stop and think about it, every player-driven or character-driven branch in the story is a different story, with different dialog, and potentially different scenes, locations, and outcome. This can easily escalate the size and complexity of the quest, which has to have limits set in place for a variety of reasons, from budget to technical.
Not disagreeing with anything in particular, but I am also never expecting the ESO writing team to create anything but a theme park ride. We get in on one end, ride through the story, then get out when the story is done.
yes, it can be very colpmex.
but other games managed it, maybe I am spoiled by these games. A very good example is a game where you play a character in an old republic (guess cant say what game it is becasue then mods will delete the post because of avertising).
In the game you have the choice between a good, neutral and evil reaction during conversations and when it comes to a decision. The result can even go that far that you kill one of your companions and then he/she is really gone.
1 -
tohopka_eso✭✭✭✭I've only played one MMO with the style of story you are looking for. Unfortunately all other MMO's with story has the same ending in it that I've played except for single player games.
So, not sure what type you are looking for. MMO style story or single player style story?0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This "year long storyline written like a book for a generic hero" is a big problem when the writer(s) don't stop to think "Does my plot make sense for certain TES archetypes that I know Elder Scrolls players roleplay?"
Because whoever wrote Blackwood did not think about the archetype of the Dark Brotherhood assassin. They forgot about the Dark Brotherhood DLC where we become a Silencer of the Dark Brotherhood.
I'm sorry, but some of us have been playing Dark Brotherhood members since Oblivion, and one rule that's drummed into us from TES 4, repeated in Skyrim, and hammered in ESO is: Don't betray your family.
Guess what the Blackwood writer(s) make us do.
I'm sorry, but when ESO writer(s) think their story is so good it justifies railroading Dark Brotherhood members into breaking the Tenets because we're somehow now bestest friends with Eveli, they've lost touch with some of the lore of their series and the roleplaying aspects that make TES so good.
I'm glad I did Blackwood on my main. My Dark Brotherhood Silencer character will never do Blackwood. She literally cannot make it past the first quest without breaking the Tenets, and it only gets worse.
Next time you write a year-long storyline, writers? Try not to leave a gaping plot hole created by your lack of respect for the established lore and obvious player archetypes.10 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.VaranisArano wrote: »This "year long storyline written like a book for a generic hero" is a big problem when the writer(s) don't stop to think "Does my plot make sense for certain TES archetypes that I know Elder Scrolls players roleplay?"
Because whoever wrote Blackwood did not think about the archetype of the Dark Brotherhood assassin. They forgot about the Dark Brotherhood DLC where we become a Silencer of the Dark Brotherhood.
I'm sorry, but some of us have been playing Dark Brotherhood members since Oblivion, and one rule that's drummed into us from TES 4, repeated in Skyrim, and hammered in ESO is: Don't betray your family.
Guess what the Blackwood writer(s) make us do.
I'm sorry, but when ESO writer(s) think their story is so good it justifies railroading Dark Brotherhood members into breaking the Tenets because we're somehow now bestest friends with Eveli, they've lost touch with some of the lore of their series and the roleplaying aspects that make TES so good.
I'm glad I did Blackwood on my main. My Dark Brotherhood Silencer character will never do Blackwood. She literally cannot make it past the first quest without breaking the Tenets, and it only gets worse.
Next time you write a year-long storyline, writers? Try not to leave a gaping plot hole created by your lack of respect for the established lore and obvious player archetypes.
I am sure they thought about it, and that makes it worse. I stopped doing Blackwood on my assassin once I discovered that the writers were writing their story in isolation.
I am seeing this a lot in ESO writing. As the OP has stated, the writers seem like they are mainly wanting to tell their story. We are expected to set aside our story to follow their story. When we are done, we take the achievement and resume our story where we left off, ignoring theirs, if required.
I mean... it is clear that they need some rules to follow.
1. No character dies in a story line that survived another story line. Stories can be done in any order.
2. Once a character is dead in a story, the character is off the table for all other stories, no matter how popular. Stories can be done in any order.
3. Resist the urge to reuse story NPCs in multiple stories unless willing to go back into all those other quests and make necessary updates to them that reflect the variable order that players can encounter the NPC.
4. Any time a character-joinable organization plays a central part of a story, the story has to branch when a member of that organization follows that story. If that is inconvenient, then use an organization that players cannot join. (Edit: if, by chance, this ends up being viewed by someone from ZOS... Blackwood failed on this score and some other organization should have been used)
5. If an organization that the player cannot join is used in a story, then that organization should never be turned into an organization the player can join.
6. If a character has done the prolog quest, or any preceding quest, the "remind me what I am doing" player responses need to be optional and phrased such it doesn't sound like the character has dementia.
Edited by Elsonso on November 2, 2021 1:51PM6 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭tohopka_eso wrote: »I've only played one MMO with the style of story you are looking for. Unfortunately all other MMO's with story has the same ending in it that I've played except for single player games.
Yeah, between MMOs, ARPGs, and JRPGs, I'm used to "RPGs" where there isn't really all that much narrative choice or 'role playing', and the "RPG elements" are just things like Class, Race, Stats, Equipment, earning XP & skill points, etc.
I don't really expect "you can make choices and RP different options" from those genres. /shrug0 -
opaj✭✭✭✭✭I am sure they thought about it, and that makes it worse. I stopped doing Blackwood on my assassin once I discovered that the writers were writing their story in isolation.
I am seeing this a lot in ESO writing. As the OP has stated, the writers seem like they are mainly wanting to tell their story. We are expected to set aside our story to follow their story. When we are done, we take the achievement and resume our story where we left off, ignoring theirs, if required.
I mean... it is clear that they need some rules to follow.
1. No character dies in a story line that survived another story line. Stories can be done in any order.
2. Once a character is dead in a story, the character is off the table for all other stories, no matter how popular. Stories can be done in any order.
3. Resist the urge to reuse story NPCs in multiple stories unless willing to go back into all those other quests and make necessary updates to them that reflect the variable order that players can encounter the NPC.
4. Any time a character-joinable organization plays a central part of a story, the story has to branch when a member of that organization follows that story. If that is inconvenient, then use an organization that players cannot join. (Edit: if, by chance, this ends up being viewed by someone from ZOS... Blackwood failed on this score and some other organization should have been used)
5. If an organization that the player cannot join is used in a story, then that organization should never be turned into an organization the player can join.
6. If a character has done the prolog quest, or any preceding quest, the "remind me what I am doing" player responses need to be optional and phrased such it doesn't sound like the character has dementia.
Please. Please please please. I've come back to finish the yearly storyline, and I've long loved the writing in this game, but these continuity issues and "my character isn't actually an inhabitant of this world"-style dialogue is getting to be too much.
Like, seriously, I really enjoy the writing in this game! But I don't know how much more of this I can take. The game is designed in a way to let you do anything in any order, so why isn't it written that way? (Okay, so the game wasn't designed that way at launch, but surely every storyline added since One Tamriel should take this into account!)2