Add a 0 to Vykosa's tooltip for PvP

Urzigurumash

This might be a simple and effective way to provide some counterplay to super procs and would give a powerful purpose for "Full Tanks" in PvP.

While Bani's may be more powerful than Vykosa in PvP, there are more viable options for 5 piece sets than Monster Sets for a potential Damage Debuff Tank in PvP. Vanguard's Challenge remains extremely difficult to use effectively and none of the Monster Sets provide sufficient survivability to run Vanguard's + Bani's, in my opinion - Bani's and Glorgoloch are also fundamentally incompatible since the sustain/GCD demand of relying on gapclosers to maintain Bani's is severe.

Right now I don't think a full debuff stack of Vykosa, Bani's, Heartland + Infused Weakening, and Minor Maim/Cowardice/Enervation/Uncertainty provides enough reduction of Damage to effectively counter some of the strongest procs.

A large buff to Vykosa is probably the most straightforward and versatile way to increase the viability of this concept in the present PvP environment.

People hate Tanks in PvP - no news there - but the ecosystem begs for this role to be effective, in my opinion.

Fennwitty

I don't think it's the role tank that people hate in ESO PvP, but the common meaning of "a character who's near impossible to kill," often due to some kind of broken combination.

I agree it would be nice for tanks in the sense of "debuff enemies, keep them controlled" etc.

In PvP now everyone's a DPS or a healer. Some of them very "tanky".

Though werewolves act as tanks many times -- tons of people immediately focus attacks on unkillable (and wet noodle) werewolves despite all logic :P

drsalvation

Fennwitty wrote: »

I don't think it's the role tank that people hate in ESO PvP, but the common meaning of "a character who's near impossible to kill," often due to some kind of broken combination.

I agree it would be nice for tanks in the sense of "debuff enemies, keep them controlled" etc.

In PvP now everyone's a DPS or a healer. Some of them very "tanky".

Though werewolves act as tanks many times -- tons of people immediately focus attacks on unkillable (and wet noodle) werewolves despite all logic :P

It's because this game takes things to the extreme, either you're a tank and get one-shot by a sneaky nightblade, or you're immortal... often times the former.
The problem with those "unkillable" tanks is that they can't really do anything else other than not die, but the necessity of survivability by tanking comes from the fact that there are damage dealers who deal MASSIVE burst damage all the time, barely giving you time to react at all (while break free animation plays, you're still CC'd, so you can't even chug a potion, let alone cast any skills).
I get that this is a math game, often times you can start a battle an after 20 seconds you already know you're not going anywhere because your damage is low and your sustain is high. Same for your opponent.

And it sucks, in PvP if you don't deal massive burst damage, you're pretty much stuck on an endless loop.
Most MMOs have cooldowns on skills, not ESO, and because of the large numbers you can pile on your builds, things often times end as stalemates.
Any other PvP game has low resource sustain, because of that a fight can last 5 minutes if you must, but you're ALWAYS making progress towards a deciding match.

The fact that stamina builds can cast and buff way more defensive skills than a tank build, making stamina builds more tanky thank actual tanks without any of a tank's nerf (movement speed) is one of many reasons why actual tank builds are so unreliable in this game.

Urzigurumash

Fennwitty wrote: »

In PvP now everyone's a DPS or a healer. Some of them very "tanky".

A very important point I left out - Vykosa also reduces most Healing Done (outside of HP-scaled and Proc heals), unlike Bani's or Vanguard's Challenge. There is no direct debuff to Healing Done, like Defile is to Healing Taken.

drsalvation wrote: »

Most MMOs have cooldowns on skills, not ESO.

Let's not construe that as a bad thing - it's one of the things that makes ESO so great. You are absolutely correct that mobility and sustain strongly outperform raw health and mitigation for staying alive right now, and that there isn't sufficient return on building as a full tank to make it as operationally powerful as it could be, or debatably, should be.

I approve of massive burst and massive healing being accessible - but strong counters to these should also be accessible, perhaps, to help even the odds in some situations and provide for a more dynamic environment.

I don't mind cheese, I just like a variety of flavors. Since Debuffing will generate little AP without helping to win an XvX engagement, Vykosa would probably never become popular in the way Harbinger's was, but for situations when a faction is desperately outnumbered by over-healed zergs and super proc Emps, or when a group in IC is facing multiple Imperial Physique Werewolves, it would be nice to have a new tool to help turn the tide.

Fennwitty

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Fennwitty wrote: »

In PvP now everyone's a DPS or a healer. Some of them very "tanky".

A very important point I left out - Vykosa also reduces most Healing Done (outside of HP-scaled and Proc heals), unlike Bani's or Vanguard's Challenge. There is no direct debuff to Healing Done, like Defile is to Healing Taken.

Oh that's true. But it's only affecting one character, you'd really have to pick wisely.