Do you want the ability to buy horse upgrades all at once?

Destai

After leveling 12 toons, I came to realize the most painful part of creating a new character, other than hearing Stuga. It's the horse training. 180 days to get full power in horse. What doesn't make sense to me, now that ESO is subscription-optional, is why do we have this? I would think all the other daily rewards (daily rewards, endeavors) offer more appealing incentives than this. Also, I can buy my bag and bank upgrades all at once, they have successful monetization, so why is this system like this still?

So, should this be something we can buy all at once?

Vevvev

Yes.

A results button when you can already view the results before voting. Odd but okay.

I'd love to buy them all at once, but if they did this they'd have to go with the inventory and bank space upgrade method where each additional one costs more gold. Otherwise it'd be a no brainer and every alt on a decently wealthy account would be maxed out day one.

Hanokihs

Yes.

Yeah this system worked as a gold-sink back when each horse was different, but now it's just inconvenient and annoying.

I'd also like the ability to buy single books that give the maximum of the bag/stam/speed skills, instead of having to buy them a few at a time and spam the interact button whenever I decide to play a character that doesn't have them yet.

SilverBride

Results only.

I would like to see it reduced to 30 days and be able to put a point into each of the three categories every day.

MEBengalsFan2001

SilverBride wrote: »

I would like to see it reduced to 30 days and be able to put a point into each of the three categories every day.

This right here is how it should be done. It would greatly improve the player experience, even for new players.

spartaxoxo

Yes.

They would probably have fixed this ages ago if they hadn't monetized the solution

Destai

Yes.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They would probably have fixed this ages ago if they hadn't monetized the solution

I think the monetization is fine, I mean it's bit too high, but I'm fine with it staying there so long as I can upgrade all at once with gold too. Players like options, and that's something ZOS needs to see - if their marketing analytics will let them.

Franchise408

Yes.

Dear god yes.

spartaxoxo

Yes.

Destai wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They would probably have fixed this ages ago if they hadn't monetized the solution

I think the monetization is fine, I mean it's bit too high, but I'm fine with it staying there so long as I can upgrade all at once with gold too. Players like options, and that's something ZOS needs to see - if their marketing analytics will let them.

It's not about it being fine or not. Zos isn't gonna want the in-game mechanic to deter sales.

Eshkerigal

Results only.

I know, that we will never get this. But player who has already maxed one of mount's stat should have 30% of this stat on every new alt.
For example: if player has main character with speed 60%, bag 60 and stamina 20%, then all new alts should start with 30% speed, 30 bag slots and 10% stamina.

Kiralyn2000

No.

What doesn't make sense to me, now that ESO is subscription-optional, is why do we have this?

Every free game in existence has some sort of (or MANY sorts of) "get them to log in daily" mechanic. It's not just for sub games.

(ESO has login rewards, dailies, daily quests, Endeavors, horse training...)

Folkb

Yes.

Yeah the current system is just dumb.

Tandor

No.

I've yet to see a clear and compelling reason as to why someone who has only been playing for a month needs to have all three mount stats maxed. Should they have all other class and guild skills maxed in that time too? If not, why not?

UGotBenched91

Yes.

I don't understand any argument against this. Going up to an NPC and paying them gold every day to upgrade a horse once is not good content. [snip] Getting rid of this would be great.

[edited for bashing]

Aldoss

Yes.

This system is the exact kind of money sink this game needs. The 20hr cooldown is really unnecessary.

It should be a 20hr cooldown to avoid ramping costs, such as the way shrine cooldown. If I want to drop exponential amounts of gold to max my new toons horse, I should be allowed to do so and dump hundreds of thousands or millions of hoarded gold to do so.

I think it's more than reasonable that instant gratification of horse levels should be equivalent to buying crowns with gold.

On PCNA you can find most people selling around 600g per crown. That means maxing one skill line like speed costs 3.6Million.

I think this game definitely needs some gold sinks to combat the rampant inflation we're experiencing and this is poised and ready to do it.

I'm not sure how to make the math work, but I think there are plenty of vet players with multiple toons and hundreds of millions of gold at their disposal to decide to skip the time and load screens required to log in to all their toons every 20hrs just to level their horse.

Destai

Yes.

Tandor wrote: »

I've yet to see a clear and compelling reason as to why someone who has only been playing for a month needs to have all three mount stats maxed. Should they have all other class and guild skills maxed in that time too? If not, why not?

Why should I be able to walk faster than my horse? Imagine you're a new player, drop $40 on a new horse, and guess what? Goes slow. Then you have to wait 30-60 days for it to be fast enough to really get wowed by it. Au contraire, I don't see any valid argument for it to exist. It's punitive. And between endeavors, daily logins, flash sales, and guild events, I have way more positive incentives to support ESO monetarily.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They would probably have fixed this ages ago if they hadn't monetized the solution

I think the monetization is fine, I mean it's bit too high, but I'm fine with it staying there so long as I can upgrade all at once with gold too. Players like options, and that's something ZOS needs to see - if their marketing analytics will let them.

It's not about it being fine or not. Zos isn't gonna want the in-game mechanic to deter sales.

Bank upgrades are monetized in the same fashion and can be upgraded at once.

Aldoss wrote: »

This system is the exact kind of money sink this game needs. The 20hr cooldown is really unnecessary.

It should be a 20hr cooldown to avoid ramping costs, such as the way shrine cooldown. If I want to drop exponential amounts of gold to max my new toons horse, I should be allowed to do so and dump hundreds of thousands or millions of hoarded gold to do so.

I think it's more than reasonable that instant gratification of horse levels should be equivalent to buying crowns with gold.

On PCNA you can find most people selling around 600g per crown. That means maxing one skill line like speed costs 3.6Million.

I think this game definitely needs some gold sinks to combat the rampant inflation we're experiencing and this is poised and ready to do it.

I'm not sure how to make the math work, but I think there are plenty of vet players with multiple toons and hundreds of millions of gold at their disposal to decide to skip the time and load screens required to log in to all their toons every 20hrs just to level their horse.

I think the gold sink is necessary too, I just want to be done with it rather than running a spreadsheet to manage it.

Araneae6537

Yes.

The horse should at least start out faster, ugh, I’d forgotten how awful slow it is without anything until visiting the EU server (I play on NA) and without any CP or the Alliance skill, at 8 pts it feels like trying to wade through molasses and I can’t even get sprint to give a kick to speed! Stamina and Inventory whatever, I can upgrade them over time, but I can’t stand to use a mount until I have at least 25 points in speed and Major Gallop.

And no, I will not spend Crowns to ungimp mount speed faster — that is one thing I’ve not changed my mind on! I use my Crowns to buy cool stuff, not because I’m impatient or to fix things made broken.

Edit: IMHO, it would be better to get rid of this stupid system entirely and let players want to log in for positives — playing the game, daily log in reward, endeavors, etc. It doesn’t bother me much for myself at this point, but I would like the system to be improved for new players. I remember how bad an impression it made on me when I started so that for over a year, I was turned off from buying any mount for Crowns.

vsrs_au

SilverBride wrote: »

I would like to see it reduced to 30 days and be able to put a point into each of the three categories every day.

Agreed, but wouldn't that be 2 points per category per day? They max out at 60 points each.

A bit off-topic: I just wish having a horse fully trained in all categories actually made a noticeable difference, but in my case it doesn't. I play with high ping (typically around 400ms), and the horse doesn't go particularly fast.

redspecter23

The cooldown is there for a reason, but the overall grind is insane, especially when you multiply it for every toon. ZOS would tell you the solution is to just go to the store and buy them for real money. They need to protect that answer by keeping the grind in place. It's monetization negatively affecting gameplay.

We could find a middle ground. I think the suggestion of ramping costs, perhaps with a 20 hour cooldown to reset the cost could work. Each training lesson after the first in a 20 hour period ramps up. You can level faster, but at a rising cost. Once the cost gets prohibitive, wait the 20 hours. Rather than 180 days to fully level you could be looking at 90, 60, 30 or even lower, depending on the ramping cost. I'd say if you double the cost for each additional upgrade with a daily reset, that would allow you to fast track it with gold as an option rather than real money being the only way.

Perhaps something as simple as in game riding lesson cooldown reducers similar to the research scrolls. You can buy one extra day every day so you can level it twice as fast for in game resources (gold or writ vouchers)

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Because it works. I don't buy much in the crown store, but I do buy horse upgrades. Never the whole thing, but I do usually buy at least a decent amount of riding speed when I create a new toon. I agree that it is a garbage policy, but it wont change.

On the flipside, I have never bought a backpack upgrade. I think I might have bought one of the last bank upgrades way back, because all the upgrades cost the same, but the last few are pretty expensive (at least they were relatively speaking once upon a time). Fairly certain that if they removed the cooldown, crown sales of horse upgrades would dry up, and I am guessing mount upgrades far outweigh bag/backpack upgrades in terms of ZOS bottom line.

What would be nice, increase the cost of training and have it ramp up drastically, but then have the cooldown reset every 20 hours or so. So if you want to do it in a day, you can do it for $$$$$$. If you want to do it in a week, it might be $$$, and if you want to take your time, well its pretty much how it is now (although 250 is nothing and should be increased). 45,000 is not a lot to fully level a horse, purely from a gold standpoint. Make it cost like a 5 million to do it in a day, a million to do it in a week or two, maybe 100k normally. This game needs better gold sinks.

vsrs_au

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Because it works. I don't buy much in the crown store, but I do buy horse upgrades. Never the whole thing, but I do usually buy at least a decent amount of riding speed when I create a new toon. I agree that it is a garbage policy, but it wont change.

On the flipside, I have never bought a backpack upgrade. I think I might have bought one of the last bank upgrades way back, because all the upgrades cost the same, but the last few are pretty expensive (at least they were relatively speaking once upon a time). Fairly certain that if they removed the cooldown, crown sales of horse upgrades would dry up, and I am guessing mount upgrades far outweigh bag/backpack upgrades in terms of ZOS bottom line.

What would be nice, increase the cost of training and have it ramp up drastically, but then have the cooldown reset every 20 hours or so. So if you want to do it in a day, you can do it for $$$$$$. If you want to do it in a week, it might be $$$, and if you want to take your time, well its pretty much how it is now (although 250 is nothing and should be increased). 45,000 is not a lot to fully level a horse, purely from a gold standpoint. Make it cost like a 5 million to do it in a day, a million to do it in a week or two, maybe 100k normally. This game needs better gold sinks.

Making fast horse upgrades a lot more expensive will just widen the affordability gap, so those players who can't afford to spend the extra money will be disadvantaged. So even if it makes more sense from a gold economy point of view, it will be unfair.

runa_gate

Yes.

I, like so many, did the daily horsey upgrade
EVERY
DAY
On EIGHTEEN characters

I finished this long ago at this point.

I fully support all-at-once upgrades as the only downside I can see is those people who troll under-50 Cyro campaigns in all gold gear doing this when actual new players cannot

kargen27

Yes.

This is one of those popular on the surface types of questions. Then you get a bit deeper and not so much. Of course I would like to train my mounts all at once. I also know why that isn't allowed and why it might not particularly be good for the game.

Kind of like if the question was "would you like to see crown store prices cut in half." All kinds of people would vote yes. Then we find out that means going back to subscriptions being required and all of a sudden the idea loses support.

What we have now is actually a decent compromise compared to how it started. In the beginning if you got a new mount you had to level that mount.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

vsrs_au wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Because it works. I don't buy much in the crown store, but I do buy horse upgrades. Never the whole thing, but I do usually buy at least a decent amount of riding speed when I create a new toon. I agree that it is a garbage policy, but it wont change.

On the flipside, I have never bought a backpack upgrade. I think I might have bought one of the last bank upgrades way back, because all the upgrades cost the same, but the last few are pretty expensive (at least they were relatively speaking once upon a time). Fairly certain that if they removed the cooldown, crown sales of horse upgrades would dry up, and I am guessing mount upgrades far outweigh bag/backpack upgrades in terms of ZOS bottom line.

What would be nice, increase the cost of training and have it ramp up drastically, but then have the cooldown reset every 20 hours or so. So if you want to do it in a day, you can do it for $$$$$$. If you want to do it in a week, it might be $$$, and if you want to take your time, well its pretty much how it is now (although 250 is nothing and should be increased). 45,000 is not a lot to fully level a horse, purely from a gold standpoint. Make it cost like a 5 million to do it in a day, a million to do it in a week or two, maybe 100k normally. This game needs better gold sinks.

Making fast horse upgrades a lot more expensive will just widen the affordability gap, so those players who can't afford to spend the extra money will be disadvantaged. So even if it makes more sense from a gold economy point of view, it will be unfair.

That's how they do it with bag space, which can be done immediately. If you want to talk fairness, is it fair to change the policy that has existed since beta for those of us already on the other side of it? Sure I have bought some horse upgrades, but I have also fed a LOT of them the old fashioned way. There were periods in the game where I was feeding 7-8 horses a day.

45000 gold is nothing in this game. Even a new player can get that in an afternoon with a little work. I also dont believe a new player should have a maxed out horse overnight.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

On the bright side, we don't have to level 3 different horses for different activities anymore!
Huzzah!

Chaos2088

Yes.

SilverBride

Results only.

vsrs_au wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I would like to see it reduced to 30 days and be able to put a point into each of the three categories every day.

Agreed, but wouldn't that be 2 points per category per day? They max out at 60 points each.

Yes that is a good point. 2 points each day then.

vsrs_au

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Because it works. I don't buy much in the crown store, but I do buy horse upgrades. Never the whole thing, but I do usually buy at least a decent amount of riding speed when I create a new toon. I agree that it is a garbage policy, but it wont change.

On the flipside, I have never bought a backpack upgrade. I think I might have bought one of the last bank upgrades way back, because all the upgrades cost the same, but the last few are pretty expensive (at least they were relatively speaking once upon a time). Fairly certain that if they removed the cooldown, crown sales of horse upgrades would dry up, and I am guessing mount upgrades far outweigh bag/backpack upgrades in terms of ZOS bottom line.

What would be nice, increase the cost of training and have it ramp up drastically, but then have the cooldown reset every 20 hours or so. So if you want to do it in a day, you can do it for $$$$$$. If you want to do it in a week, it might be $$$, and if you want to take your time, well its pretty much how it is now (although 250 is nothing and should be increased). 45,000 is not a lot to fully level a horse, purely from a gold standpoint. Make it cost like a 5 million to do it in a day, a million to do it in a week or two, maybe 100k normally. This game needs better gold sinks.

Making fast horse upgrades a lot more expensive will just widen the affordability gap, so those players who can't afford to spend the extra money will be disadvantaged. So even if it makes more sense from a gold economy point of view, it will be unfair.

That's how they do it with bag space, which can be done immediately. If you want to talk fairness, is it fair to change the policy that has existed since beta for those of us already on the other side of it? Sure I have bought some horse upgrades, but I have also fed a LOT of them the old fashioned way. There were periods in the game where I was feeding 7-8 horses a day.

45000 gold is nothing in this game. Even a new player can get that in an afternoon with a little work. I also dont believe a new player should have a maxed out horse overnight.

45,000 gold in 1 an afternoon? Really? It took me a great deal longer than that to get that much gold, so either I'm not the only one in this position, or I must be doing something seriously wrong.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

vsrs_au wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Because it works. I don't buy much in the crown store, but I do buy horse upgrades. Never the whole thing, but I do usually buy at least a decent amount of riding speed when I create a new toon. I agree that it is a garbage policy, but it wont change.

On the flipside, I have never bought a backpack upgrade. I think I might have bought one of the last bank upgrades way back, because all the upgrades cost the same, but the last few are pretty expensive (at least they were relatively speaking once upon a time). Fairly certain that if they removed the cooldown, crown sales of horse upgrades would dry up, and I am guessing mount upgrades far outweigh bag/backpack upgrades in terms of ZOS bottom line.

What would be nice, increase the cost of training and have it ramp up drastically, but then have the cooldown reset every 20 hours or so. So if you want to do it in a day, you can do it for $$$$$$. If you want to do it in a week, it might be $$$, and if you want to take your time, well its pretty much how it is now (although 250 is nothing and should be increased). 45,000 is not a lot to fully level a horse, purely from a gold standpoint. Make it cost like a 5 million to do it in a day, a million to do it in a week or two, maybe 100k normally. This game needs better gold sinks.

Making fast horse upgrades a lot more expensive will just widen the affordability gap, so those players who can't afford to spend the extra money will be disadvantaged. So even if it makes more sense from a gold economy point of view, it will be unfair.

That's how they do it with bag space, which can be done immediately. If you want to talk fairness, is it fair to change the policy that has existed since beta for those of us already on the other side of it? Sure I have bought some horse upgrades, but I have also fed a LOT of them the old fashioned way. There were periods in the game where I was feeding 7-8 horses a day.

45000 gold is nothing in this game. Even a new player can get that in an afternoon with a little work. I also dont believe a new player should have a maxed out horse overnight.

45,000 gold in 1 an afternoon? Really? It took me a great deal longer than that to get that much gold, so either I'm not the only one in this position, or I must be doing something seriously wrong.

You are doing something seriously wrong if you dedicate an afternoon to gold farming and come up with less then 45,000 gold. Sure, you might struggle to do that your very first afternoon in tamriel, but I don't think that is who we are really talking about here. The first line of this thread is "after leveling 12 toons". I think the OPs gripe is mostly about this in the context of a new character, and you will never convince me that a person on their first toon needs a horse powerleveled on day one. And if they do, well, they can do it with the CS.

If you have 12 toons, you can make well north of 45000 in about 20-30 minutes doing writs. Heck even 4 toons doing writs probably nets north of 50k on average if you do writs and sell your gold mats in zone at slightly less than MM pricing, which well sell instantly. If you have been playing this game for longer than about a year and dont have at least 8 figures in your bank, gold is clearly not a priority for you (which is fine) because it is absolutely trivial to farm. Too trivial IMO, which is why inflation is rampant.

AcadianPaladin

Results only.

I've been arguing for a long time for even a slightly less aggressive change:

Let us train all three disciplines once a day instead of only training one a day. Reduces total horse training time from a daunting 180 days to a much nicer 60 days. Yet still allows for the sale of training scrolls from the crown store for those who really want them.

Casul

Yes.

I miss my maxed out horse from PS4, I feel so slow on PC I just run everywhere on foot instead.