Engine Guardian pet is destroying the game balance of PvP

master_vanargand

It's a nightmare to be able to target of Engine Guardian pet as an attack.
No one wants to attack pet.

Maw of the Infernal pet is now no target.
Why can Engine Guardian pets still be targeted?

Enemy players equipped with the Engine Guardian will not die forever in duels.
Should make it impossible to attack the pet of sets.

Kory

Or just make it stationary, put large aoe minor protection on it, and the same resource recovery proc. That way it's still Engine Guardian but it's not this silly body blocking dummy that floats around and follows the player so tightly.

AdamLAD

Blastbones is a bigger culprit, such an annoying skill.

BlakMarket

OR keybind your tab target button, to tab target the player, not EG. Yes, it is annoying but I have no issue with anyone running it in duels or open world, once I learned how important tab targeting is.

master_vanargand

BlakMarket wrote: »

OR keybind your tab target button, to tab target the player, not EG. Yes, it is annoying but I have no issue with anyone running it in duels or open world, once I learned how important tab targeting is.

Tab target has no meaning.
Tab target just marks.
Stop telling the false myth of tab target.

Elo106

If its not targetable we cant interrupt it though. You can bash it and it will stop giving resources.

xylena_lazarow

BlakMarket wrote: »

OR keybind your tab target button, to tab target the player, not EG. Yes, it is annoying but I have no issue with anyone running it in duels or open world, once I learned how important tab targeting is.

Tab target player, crosshairs on player, attack still hits pet. WTB option to disable targeting pets.

vms11934

As much as Engine Guardian probably shouldn't be a target, the idea that it is "destroying the game balance of pvp" is quiet dramatic. However much it might be an issue in duels, duels are not the alpha and omega of pvp. Can't say I have noticed it as an issue in Cyro.

master_vanargand

Elo106 wrote: »

If its not targetable we cant interrupt it though. You can bash it and it will stop giving resources.

Playing bash minigames while fighting enemy players is hell.

master_vanargand

vms11934 wrote: »

As much as Engine Guardian probably shouldn't be a target, the idea that it is "destroying the game balance of pvp" is quiet dramatic. However much it might be an issue in duels, duels are not the alpha and omega of pvp. Can't say I have noticed it as an issue in Cyro.

Depending on the situation, Cyrodiil and BGs also have 1v1.
And 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, etc ... Engine Guardian is a nightmare in every case.
Did you know that the pets festival (unofficial event) was held in PC NA Cyrodiil a long time ago?
It was the worst hell in ESO history.

divnyi

master_vanargand wrote: »

BlakMarket wrote: »

OR keybind your tab target button, to tab target the player, not EG. Yes, it is annoying but I have no issue with anyone running it in duels or open world, once I learned how important tab targeting is.

Tab target has no meaning.
Tab target just marks.
Stop telling the false myth of tab target.

It's fun how untrue message has more upvotes than actual solution.

Tab targeting works. I know that because I used it all the time playing snipeblade, and I had no problem targeting single enemy with multiple snipes inside the tight group so that all hits land on that specific enemy.

https://youtu.be/1DmMSbUsDjk

Check at 0:40, 2:12

You need to follow pointer to be exactly on where the enemy is. Tab targeting doesn't mean you don't need to aim. But it gives priority for tabbed target if two things overlap at your crosshair, instead of targeting closest one.

master_vanargand

divnyi wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

BlakMarket wrote: »

OR keybind your tab target button, to tab target the player, not EG. Yes, it is annoying but I have no issue with anyone running it in duels or open world, once I learned how important tab targeting is.

Tab target has no meaning.
Tab target just marks.
Stop telling the false myth of tab target.

It's fun how untrue message has more upvotes than actual solution.

Tab targeting works. I know that because I used it all the time playing snipeblade, and I had no problem targeting single enemy with multiple snipes inside the tight group so that all hits land on that specific enemy.

https://youtu.be/1DmMSbUsDjk

Check at 0:40, 2:12

You need to follow pointer to be exactly on where the enemy is. Tab targeting doesn't mean you don't need to aim. But it gives priority for tabbed target if two things overlap at your crosshair, instead of targeting closest one.

I watched the video but it didn't make sense.
This video does not prove that tab target works.
Can you make a video of a 10-minute duel with the pet build player?
Please tell me how many times you attacked pet in 10 minutes.

divnyi

master_vanargand wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

BlakMarket wrote: »

OR keybind your tab target button, to tab target the player, not EG. Yes, it is annoying but I have no issue with anyone running it in duels or open world, once I learned how important tab targeting is.

Tab target has no meaning.
Tab target just marks.
Stop telling the false myth of tab target.

It's fun how untrue message has more upvotes than actual solution.

Tab targeting works. I know that because I used it all the time playing snipeblade, and I had no problem targeting single enemy with multiple snipes inside the tight group so that all hits land on that specific enemy.

https://youtu.be/1DmMSbUsDjk

Check at 0:40, 2:12

You need to follow pointer to be exactly on where the enemy is. Tab targeting doesn't mean you don't need to aim. But it gives priority for tabbed target if two things overlap at your crosshair, instead of targeting closest one.

I watched the video but it didn't make sense.
This video does not prove that tab target works.
Can you make a video of a 10-minute duel with the pet build player?
Please tell me how many times you attacked pet in 10 minutes.

Just because I can, doesn't mean I would.
After all, I know how it works and I use it. It's not me who needs this.

Honestly, idk how you duel necros without target locks.

master_vanargand

divnyi wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

BlakMarket wrote: »

OR keybind your tab target button, to tab target the player, not EG. Yes, it is annoying but I have no issue with anyone running it in duels or open world, once I learned how important tab targeting is.

Tab target has no meaning.
Tab target just marks.
Stop telling the false myth of tab target.

It's fun how untrue message has more upvotes than actual solution.

Tab targeting works. I know that because I used it all the time playing snipeblade, and I had no problem targeting single enemy with multiple snipes inside the tight group so that all hits land on that specific enemy.

https://youtu.be/1DmMSbUsDjk

Check at 0:40, 2:12

You need to follow pointer to be exactly on where the enemy is. Tab targeting doesn't mean you don't need to aim. But it gives priority for tabbed target if two things overlap at your crosshair, instead of targeting closest one.

I watched the video but it didn't make sense.
This video does not prove that tab target works.
Can you make a video of a 10-minute duel with the pet build player?
Please tell me how many times you attacked pet in 10 minutes.

Just because I can, doesn't mean I would.
After all, I know how it works and I use it. It's not me who needs this.

Honestly, idk how you duel necros without target locks.

It's a good idea to duel with a pet build sorc equipped with an engine guardian.
Then you will change your opinion.

Abyssmol

divnyi wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

BlakMarket wrote: »

OR keybind your tab target button, to tab target the player, not EG. Yes, it is annoying but I have no issue with anyone running it in duels or open world, once I learned how important tab targeting is.

Tab target has no meaning.
Tab target just marks.
Stop telling the false myth of tab target.

It's fun how untrue message has more upvotes than actual solution.

Tab targeting works. I know that because I used it all the time playing snipeblade, and I had no problem targeting single enemy with multiple snipes inside the tight group so that all hits land on that specific enemy.

https://youtu.be/1DmMSbUsDjk

Check at 0:40, 2:12

You need to follow pointer to be exactly on where the enemy is. Tab targeting doesn't mean you don't need to aim. But it gives priority for tabbed target if two things overlap at your crosshair, instead of targeting closest one.

I watched the video but it didn't make sense.
This video does not prove that tab target works.
Can you make a video of a 10-minute duel with the pet build player?
Please tell me how many times you attacked pet in 10 minutes.

Just because I can, doesn't mean I would.
After all, I know how it works and I use it. It's not me who needs this.

Honestly, idk how you duel necros without target locks.

It is funny how players are taking about Engine Gardian as a broken pet, when we have sorc pets, and Blastbones doing a better job blocking incoming damage. Unreal!!! [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

katorga

Engine Guardian and pet sorcs have been in the game a long, long time. People seem to kill them just fine.

Amottica

master_vanargand wrote: »

Elo106 wrote: »

If its not targetable we cant interrupt it though. You can bash it and it will stop giving resources.

Playing bash minigames while fighting enemy players is hell.

Bashing/interrupting is a skill of the game and they do point out a valid benefit for interrupting the sphere.

DrSlaughtr

It's targetable so you can bash it to interrupt the regen.

baselesschart

I agree in the sense that it is annoying and should not be targetable. I've played the game since launch and not once have I ever actually wanted to attack a sorc pet, EG, blastbones etc. If tab target actually did its job all the time, which it doesn't, then I'd be less inclined to have a problem with stuff like EG. But since the game freaks out as soon as a player crosses path with another entity and can't figure out targeting I'm going to continue having a problem with it.

ealdwin

Similar conversations occurred many patches ago, so I'll share my opinion/suggestion that I had back then.

If the pet, whether skill or set sourced, does damage it should be targetable. If I have something in my face hitting me, I want
the ability to bash it, kill it, or knock it back with a ring of fire. (Such as pesky daedroths.)

If the pet does no damage, then it likely should not be targetable. I get the use of interrupting regen-pets, but I wouldn't want to hit Warden's netch with a javelin (not that we can currently, just using it as an example).

xylena_lazarow

master_vanargand wrote: »

If the pet does no damage, then it likely should not be targetable.

I never, ever, ever want to target a pet in PvP. An option to enable/disable pet targeting would be ideal.

jaws343

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

If the pet does no damage, then it likely should not be targetable.

I never, ever, ever want to target a pet in PvP. An option to enable/disable pet targeting would be ideal.

I'd prefer to kill an incoming blastbones and avoid a 10K hit.

Or force the sorc to recast their heal skill.

Or kill the storm atro that is putting out a large DOT on me while I fight near it.

Everyone thinks they want untargetable pets. But they don't realize that it will likely make things worse for them.

NordSwordnBoard

EG is more like the Werewolf pets being targetable. The LoS is much more valuable than the intended function. The EG tooltip doesn't mention how standing behind the automaton will block enemy attacks.

Blastbones cost a GCD, Sorc pets & Bear are double barred. EG procs on any build without a GCD cost to the user.

DrSlaughtr

I like I said, you can target it so you can interrupt the beam. You pretty much kill a dude running away waiting for that mag beam to help them heal if you bash the sphere.

xylena_lazarow

jaws343 wrote: »

Everyone thinks they want untargetable pets. But they don't realize that it will likely make things worse for them.

Speak for yourself. Anyway, this is why an option to enable/disable pet targeting would make everyone happy. So would making tab targeting reliable in PvP, but I'm not holding my breath for that one.

jaws343

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Everyone thinks they want untargetable pets. But they don't realize that it will likely make things worse for them.

Speak for yourself. Anyway, this is why an option to enable/disable pet targeting would make everyone happy. So would making tab targeting reliable in PvP, but I'm not holding my breath for that one.

You cannot make it an option. It has to be all or nothing. You can't have some players just choose to turn off different competitive parts of the game they don't like.

For example, you can't have a toggle that just prevents other players from healing, or dodge rolling, or shielding. That is essentially what you are asking for. A toggle to ignore a core aspect of combat. It's not reasonable.

xylena_lazarow

jaws343 wrote: »

You cannot make it an option. It has to be all or nothing. You can't have some players just choose to turn off different competitive parts of the game they don't like.

There's nothing competitive about the state of tab-targeting in PvP. It's a dice roll at best.

jaws343

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

You cannot make it an option. It has to be all or nothing. You can't have some players just choose to turn off different competitive parts of the game they don't like.

There's nothing competitive about the state of tab-targeting in PvP. It's a dice roll at best.

I don't think that tab target is really relevant in regards to the reasons why the idea of being able to toggle pets blocking on and off. The idea is not a good one because it takes a part of the game that is working as intended and makes the rules different for different people based on a toggle.

That is an awful idea.

Right now, something like EG provides the same benefit and the same detriment no matter who is wearing it and no matter who is fighting against it. That is good, you will always know, either offensive or defensive, what to expect when the set procs.

The proposed toggle would make it to where you will never know who is making the game easier for them and who is not. Because that is what a toggle is, making the game easier so a player doesn't have to learn how to fight against a mechanic. Essentially the same as me suggesting that I should get a toggle that allows all of my skills to always hit because players being able to dodge them is unfair.

xylena_lazarow

jaws343 wrote: »

you will never know

Right now, you will never know whether your attacks will hit the player or their pet(s).

katorga

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

EG is more like the Werewolf pets being targetable. The LoS is much more valuable than the intended function. The EG tooltip doesn't mention how standing behind the automaton will block enemy attacks.

Blastbones cost a GCD, Sorc pets & Bear are double barred. EG procs on any build without a GCD cost to the user.

So what. Been that way forever, and not only are EG users killable, it is not even the goto meta set for pvp.

You can also use your own faction for LOS, and use the slots for more useful meta sets like Balorgh's

If you are a single target melee build you should be inside your target's hitbox/model, and most classes big burst is aoe anyway. EG is a pain in the behind for a ranged, single target build though. Rock paper scissors.

xylena_lazarow

katorga wrote: »

So what. Been that way forever, and not only are EG users killable

Remember the old Shuffle? Randomly negating 20% of your attacks? Shuffle users weren't unkillable, but the random nature of it made combat frustrating, so ZOS wisely changed it. Targetable pets still effectively do that, IIRC it's even about the same 20% random negation rate when I was tracking it in duels.