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Can we have an ETA on the BG test end?
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RedTalon✭✭✭✭✭Do you guys realize DC could be much worse without DM??
Keep DC effects on objective areas for 15 minutes, the end.
Oddly no I was able to walk up to relics still, you can beat DC pretty easily by making yourself immune to somethings., remember dcs where a set before this test . It was not an effective defense,Edited by RedTalon on October 13, 2021 11:47PM1 -
Aldoss✭✭✭✭✭
✭
What im saying is that some of us are making assumptions about WHAT ZOS are testing....we dont actually know exactly what they are testing.
This.
To anyone who has complained "ZOS, your test is ridiculous and the data is tainted": you have no idea what metrics they're testing.
A grade schooler could recognize that if the metric they were testing was only participation based, removing all other mode options and only having dm would obtain poor data. I think ZOS is smarter than a grade schooler.
However, I want to commend @ZOS_GinaBruno for her response and I want to encourage her and the other admins to please do simple posts like that more!
I cannot express how much relief and joy it brought me to see the 'z' icon on this thread and it be an actual reply and not a "removing posts for bashing" or other behavioral moderations post.
A lot of pent up anger and frustration is the product of neglect or feeling neglected (I'm assuming the latter is the real problem with this player base). Sometimes all someone wants is to be told, "we hear you".
Edited by Aldoss on October 13, 2021 11:53PM4 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am not sure why we need to evaluate how popular is a pvp game mode compared to objective game mode in a PVP multi-player game.
It's not really rocket science is it? That being said even rocket science is not that hard these days
Probably should spend more time balancing sets like DC rather than testing the obvious.1 -
thesarahandcompany✭✭✭✭
What im saying is that some of us are making assumptions about WHAT ZOS are testing....we dont actually know exactly what they are testing.
This.
To anyone who has complained "ZOS, your test is ridiculous and the data is tainted": you have no idea what metrics they're testing.
A grade schooler could recognize that if the metric they were testing was only participation based, removing all other mode options and only having dm would obtain poor data. I think ZOS is smarter than a grade schooler.
However, I want to commend @ZOS_GinaBruno for her response and I want to encourage her and the other admins to please do simple posts like that more!
I cannot express how much relief and joy it brought me to see the 'z' icon on this thread and it be an actual reply and not a "removing posts for bashing" or other behavioral moderations post.
A lot of pent up anger and frustration is the product of neglect or feeling neglected (I'm assuming the latter is the real problem with this player base). Sometimes all someone wants is to be told, "we hear you".
We have precedent. Other "tests" regarding game modes lasted much, much longer than this. The deathmatch community, which is the majority of BG pvpers, believes this is another attempt for ZOS to continue to phase out pvp in ESO and hollow out our community more.
So we do know what they are testing and the DM community, which has not been allowed to play their main content in this game for two years, is very very skeptical.Sarahandcompany
She/Her/Hers1 -
Hanokihs✭✭✭✭✭Why do people keep repeating that deathmatch players are the majority of PVP/BGs players, as if all the people deathmatching where they should otherwise be focusing on objective-based strategies isn't presumably responsible for pushing out all the other PVP/BGs players? Nothing exists in a vacuum.
Is there some statistic mods/devs posted? Where do I find it, and how old is it?
"I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum."I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.2 -
thesarahandcompany✭✭✭✭Why do people keep repeating that deathmatch players are the majority of PVP/BGs players, as if all the people deathmatching where they should otherwise be focusing on objective-based strategies isn't presumably responsible for pushing out all the other PVP/BGs players? Nothing exists in a vacuum.
Is there some statistic mods/devs posted? Where do I find it, and how old is it?
It's literally within the game. The battleground master says it. It was historically the most popular one. Still is.Sarahandcompany
She/Her/Hers2 -
LordRukia✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »We should have an update on this Battlegrounds test in the next few days, including next steps for the immediate future.
I find it odd that the solo queue “test” lasted for 3 patches, yet this dm queue test isn’t even live for a full patch before you make a decision.
There’s no way the data from this is going to be useful since dm queue only started a week before New World came out, and a huge chunk of players (from pve too) haven’t even logged in since.
What data?? The data of how many people quit because there is only 1 mode? There is literally nothing to compare it to. Useless data. The logical move would have been to put a dm only queue added to what we had then see how many people use it. not rocket science good god0 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Can we, for god's sake, stop fighting against each other, and just demand the ability to queue whatever game mode we'd like to play? It's so easy ZOS, just do it already.3 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Let me drive this point home even further. THE PVP COMMUNITY IS DYING AND ON ITS LAST BREATH. You either give us what we want or whatever is left, will just stop playing. We are fed up with not having the basic ability to choose to play what we like.
Do you get this ZOS or are you going to continue to mismanage the PVP side of the game?
You want to know how badly you’ve mismanaged it? A sub par mmo with crappy PvP took away half your player base...
The combat system in eso is far superior but you still lost your PvP community...Edited by Skoomah on October 14, 2021 12:50PM6 -
_adhyffbjjjf12✭✭✭✭✭
What im saying is that some of us are making assumptions about WHAT ZOS are testing....we dont actually know exactly what they are testing.
This.
To anyone who has complained "ZOS, your test is ridiculous and the data is tainted": you have no idea what metrics they're testing.
A grade schooler could recognize that if the metric they were testing was only participation based, removing all other mode options and only having dm would obtain poor data. I think ZOS is smarter than a grade schooler.
However, I want to commend @ZOS_GinaBruno for her response and I want to encourage her and the other admins to please do simple posts like that more!
I cannot express how much relief and joy it brought me to see the 'z' icon on this thread and it be an actual reply and not a "removing posts for bashing" or other behavioral moderations post.
A lot of pent up anger and frustration is the product of neglect or feeling neglected (I'm assuming the latter is the real problem with this player base). Sometimes all someone wants is to be told, "we hear you".
What we do know is that they took away 80% of content from players for no other reason than to trial something, which is some way to treat your paying customers. That aside, anyone with any reasonable level of testing and software development experience can tell you why the 'test' results involving DM metrics will have been skewed by this action.Edited by _adhyffbjjjf12 on October 14, 2021 6:26PM1 -
_adhyffbjjjf12✭✭✭✭✭thesarahandcompany wrote: »
Screw players who like other types of BG is it? How would you feel if all PVP was removed because the devs wanted to experiment on PVE only ESO...1 -
thesarahandcompany✭✭✭✭_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »
Screw players who like other types of BG is it? How would you feel if all PVP was removed because the devs wanted to experiment on PVE only ESO...
Pretty much. I don't care about objective modes. If y'all get them, great. If you don't, I don't care. No tea, no shade to you.
Most of the players who left were because we've effectively not had DM queues for two years until now.
I'm not responding to your scenario because it's bait, illogical and irrelevant to the conversation.Sarahandcompany
She/Her/Hers0 -
thesarahandcompany✭✭✭✭Can we, for god's sake, stop fighting against each other, and just demand the ability to queue whatever game mode we'd like to play? It's so easy ZOS, just do it already.
Disagreement isn't fighting. Different points of view isn't fighting. Having an opinion that *seems* to be neutral like you are suggesting here isn't a superior intellectual stance. It's a forum for people to voice their thoughts.Sarahandcompany
She/Her/Hers1 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thesarahandcompany wrote: »Can we, for god's sake, stop fighting against each other, and just demand the ability to queue whatever game mode we'd like to play? It's so easy ZOS, just do it already.
Disagreement isn't fighting. Different points of view isn't fighting. Having an opinion that *seems* to be neutral like you are suggesting here isn't a superior intellectual stance. It's a forum for people to voice their thoughts.
I think he just means that we can keep saying we want and love dm, and the objective crowd can keep saying they want objectives and dislike dm, but ultimately that won't go anywhere.
But if we all say "let us choose" it could get us somewhere.PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden2 -
Urvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »We should have an update on this Battlegrounds test in the next few days, including next steps for the immediate future.
I find it odd that the solo queue “test” lasted for 3 patches, yet this dm queue test isn’t even live for a full patch before you make a decision.
There’s no way the data from this is going to be useful since dm queue only started a week before New World came out, and a huge chunk of players (from pve too) haven’t even logged in since.
What data?? The data of how many people quit because there is only 1 mode? There is literally nothing to compare it to. Useless data. The logical move would have been to put a dm only queue added to what we had then see how many people use it. not rocket science good god
The data of how many people quit because the test took place exactly when a new pvp mmo released that a huge portion of the eso pvp population went to try out. It’s a test where the data is nearly entirely affected by external factors and won’t mean anything more than that unless the duration is increased so the player population can level out over time.1 -
Hanokihs✭✭✭✭✭thesarahandcompany wrote: »Why do people keep repeating that deathmatch players are the majority of PVP/BGs players, as if all the people deathmatching where they should otherwise be focusing on objective-based strategies isn't presumably responsible for pushing out all the other PVP/BGs players? Nothing exists in a vacuum.
Is there some statistic mods/devs posted? Where do I find it, and how old is it?
It's literally within the game. The battleground master says it. It was historically the most popular one. Still is.
I meant real life, not lore-wise."I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum."I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.0 -
thesarahandcompany✭✭✭✭gariondavey wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »Can we, for god's sake, stop fighting against each other, and just demand the ability to queue whatever game mode we'd like to play? It's so easy ZOS, just do it already.
Disagreement isn't fighting. Different points of view isn't fighting. Having an opinion that *seems* to be neutral like you are suggesting here isn't a superior intellectual stance. It's a forum for people to voice their thoughts.
I think he just means that we can keep saying we want and love dm, and the objective crowd can keep saying they want objectives and dislike dm, but ultimately that won't go anywhere.
But if we all say "let us choose" it could get us somewhere.
That's not what we're saying. We're saying this test is fundamentally biased at the detriment to deathmatch queue players. The test should be extended for another patch or until the next DLC release.Sarahandcompany
She/Her/Hers0 -
_adhyffbjjjf12✭✭✭✭✭thesarahandcompany wrote: »_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »
Screw players who like other types of BG is it? How would you feel if all PVP was removed because the devs wanted to experiment on PVE only ESO...
Pretty much. I don't care about objective modes. If y'all get them, great. If you don't, I don't care. No tea, no shade to you.
Most of the players who left were because we've effectively not had DM queues for two years until now.
I'm not responding to your scenario because it's bait, illogical and irrelevant to the conversation.
its not bait, its the same lthesarahandcompany wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »Can we, for god's sake, stop fighting against each other, and just demand the ability to queue whatever game mode we'd like to play? It's so easy ZOS, just do it already.
Disagreement isn't fighting. Different points of view isn't fighting. Having an opinion that *seems* to be neutral like you are suggesting here isn't a superior intellectual stance. It's a forum for people to voice their thoughts.
I think he just means that we can keep saying we want and love dm, and the objective crowd can keep saying they want objectives and dislike dm, but ultimately that won't go anywhere.
But if we all say "let us choose" it could get us somewhere.
That's not what we're saying. We're saying this test is fundamentally biased at the detriment to deathmatch queue players. The test should be extended for another patch or until the next DLC release.
It was grossly biased for DM players i.e they literally forced every BG play in the game to play DM or nothing, you cant get much more biased than that. Its Moot anyway, the impact of Dm only BG was so dire that objective modes are returning asap, but BM players get a nice bonus, a DM only queue. If its popular the queue will tick over quickly. win win for all.1 -
thesarahandcompany✭✭✭✭_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »
Screw players who like other types of BG is it? How would you feel if all PVP was removed because the devs wanted to experiment on PVE only ESO...
Pretty much. I don't care about objective modes. If y'all get them, great. If you don't, I don't care. No tea, no shade to you.
Most of the players who left were because we've effectively not had DM queues for two years until now.
I'm not responding to your scenario because it's bait, illogical and irrelevant to the conversation.
its not bait, its the same lthesarahandcompany wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »Can we, for god's sake, stop fighting against each other, and just demand the ability to queue whatever game mode we'd like to play? It's so easy ZOS, just do it already.
Disagreement isn't fighting. Different points of view isn't fighting. Having an opinion that *seems* to be neutral like you are suggesting here isn't a superior intellectual stance. It's a forum for people to voice their thoughts.
I think he just means that we can keep saying we want and love dm, and the objective crowd can keep saying they want objectives and dislike dm, but ultimately that won't go anywhere.
But if we all say "let us choose" it could get us somewhere.
That's not what we're saying. We're saying this test is fundamentally biased at the detriment to deathmatch queue players. The test should be extended for another patch or until the next DLC release.
It was grossly biased for DM players i.e they literally forced every BG play in the game to play DM or nothing, you cant get much more biased than that. Its Moot anyway, the impact of Dm only BG was so dire that objective modes are returning asap, but BM players get a nice bonus, a DM only queue. If its popular the queue will tick over quickly. win win for all.
That's not true. BGs are less populated right now because of New World. Period.Sarahandcompany
She/Her/Hers1 -
_adhyffbjjjf12✭✭✭✭✭thesarahandcompany wrote: »_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »
Screw players who like other types of BG is it? How would you feel if all PVP was removed because the devs wanted to experiment on PVE only ESO...
Pretty much. I don't care about objective modes. If y'all get them, great. If you don't, I don't care. No tea, no shade to you.
Most of the players who left were because we've effectively not had DM queues for two years until now.
I'm not responding to your scenario because it's bait, illogical and irrelevant to the conversation.
its not bait, its the same lthesarahandcompany wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »Can we, for god's sake, stop fighting against each other, and just demand the ability to queue whatever game mode we'd like to play? It's so easy ZOS, just do it already.
Disagreement isn't fighting. Different points of view isn't fighting. Having an opinion that *seems* to be neutral like you are suggesting here isn't a superior intellectual stance. It's a forum for people to voice their thoughts.
I think he just means that we can keep saying we want and love dm, and the objective crowd can keep saying they want objectives and dislike dm, but ultimately that won't go anywhere.
But if we all say "let us choose" it could get us somewhere.
That's not what we're saying. We're saying this test is fundamentally biased at the detriment to deathmatch queue players. The test should be extended for another patch or until the next DLC release.
It was grossly biased for DM players i.e they literally forced every BG play in the game to play DM or nothing, you cant get much more biased than that. Its Moot anyway, the impact of Dm only BG was so dire that objective modes are returning asap, but BM players get a nice bonus, a DM only queue. If its popular the queue will tick over quickly. win win for all.
That's not true. BGs are less populated right now because of New World. Period.
no, it was less populated because of new world AND drop of objective based BG, its already been confirmed by an official.
" A frequent complaint we saw, though, was the disappointment that we removed something that is ultimately at the core of our game: the freedom of choice. And in the case of this test, the data appeared to back that up as well. Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state."
Edited by _adhyffbjjjf12 on October 18, 2021 6:41PM2 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »
Screw players who like other types of BG is it? How would you feel if all PVP was removed because the devs wanted to experiment on PVE only ESO...
Pretty much. I don't care about objective modes. If y'all get them, great. If you don't, I don't care. No tea, no shade to you.
Most of the players who left were because we've effectively not had DM queues for two years until now.
I'm not responding to your scenario because it's bait, illogical and irrelevant to the conversation.
its not bait, its the same lthesarahandcompany wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »Can we, for god's sake, stop fighting against each other, and just demand the ability to queue whatever game mode we'd like to play? It's so easy ZOS, just do it already.
Disagreement isn't fighting. Different points of view isn't fighting. Having an opinion that *seems* to be neutral like you are suggesting here isn't a superior intellectual stance. It's a forum for people to voice their thoughts.
I think he just means that we can keep saying we want and love dm, and the objective crowd can keep saying they want objectives and dislike dm, but ultimately that won't go anywhere.
But if we all say "let us choose" it could get us somewhere.
That's not what we're saying. We're saying this test is fundamentally biased at the detriment to deathmatch queue players. The test should be extended for another patch or until the next DLC release.
It was grossly biased for DM players i.e they literally forced every BG play in the game to play DM or nothing, you cant get much more biased than that. Its Moot anyway, the impact of Dm only BG was so dire that objective modes are returning asap, but BM players get a nice bonus, a DM only queue. If its popular the queue will tick over quickly. win win for all.
That's not true. BGs are less populated right now because of New World. Period.
no, it was less populated because of new world AND drop of objective based BG, its already been confirmed by an official.
" A frequent complaint we saw, though, was the disappointment that we removed something that is ultimately at the core of our game: the freedom of choice. And in the case of this test, the data appeared to back that up as well. Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state."
No one cares about what some test result lol
I am a ZOS customer who likes to play only DM'S in their video game. If ZOS cannot provide me value for my time and money, i will simply move on.
What game mode others want to play or prefer is none of my concern3 -
Slyclone✭✭✭✭The solo queue takes too long.
The regular queue has a winning team that wins all day, driving everyone that is left away.
It's too late.
Simple as that.
That's it, that's all.2 -
Magio_✭✭✭✭_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »no, it was less populated because of new world AND drop of objective based BG, its already been confirmed by an official.
" A frequent complaint we saw, though, was the disappointment that we removed something that is ultimately at the core of our game: the freedom of choice. And in the case of this test, the data appeared to back that up as well. Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state."
That complaint of removing freedom of choice also came from Deathmatch players because we hadn't been able to play the way we want for 2 years, after the original change to the queues from Group Specific to Solo-Only Specific. We were trying to keep our ability to queue for only DM after this test ended.
You have no idea what timeframe "it quickly declined" means. Not a single player posting here knows. It could mean one day after the test started or New World launch day. Before you say anything, one week can be considered "quick" when talking about the BG queue that has been going on for years. Like others have said, you're making assumptions and trying to spin it to fit your narrative.
Also, if you don't understand that Dark Convergence has a bigger impact in lowering the quality-of-gameplay in a Deathmatch Battleground than it does in Cyrodiil because of the confined spaces, environmental damage and match time limit, then you're either blind or trying to ignore that fact because it doesn't help your argument.
Idk how casual you have to be to not know, but people that play ESO almost solely for BGs made guilds, then made Discord communities where different guilds congregate and discuss BGs and PvP. I'm talking about hundreds of people that would do nothing but spam BGs all day everyday. We've seen a very obvious decline in participation, both in-game and on our Discord servers ever since New World came out. Actually, even before release day. There was a "lame duck" phase days before release in which people stopped logging-in to ESO in anticipation of New World.
Also, please realize ZOS is sacrificing your ability to queue specifically into Objective Modes to be able to keep Solo Queue options. Every mistake they've done for the past two years that has lowered the Battleground population has been to introduce or keep the Solo Queues. Imagine removing the ability to group up for a Team Arena for the sake of introducing Solo Queues. Then, when there was enough outrage and population declined a fair amount they brought back the ability to group queue, but yet again to be able to KEEP the failed Solo Queues, ZOS sacrificed the ability to choose your objective modes.
Finally, the fact is ZOS, who can actually look at the data, decided it was best keep the DM queue separate. So your argument boils down to "ZOS is incompetent/dumb".2 -
thesarahandcompany✭✭✭✭_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »
Screw players who like other types of BG is it? How would you feel if all PVP was removed because the devs wanted to experiment on PVE only ESO...
Pretty much. I don't care about objective modes. If y'all get them, great. If you don't, I don't care. No tea, no shade to you.
Most of the players who left were because we've effectively not had DM queues for two years until now.
I'm not responding to your scenario because it's bait, illogical and irrelevant to the conversation.
its not bait, its the same lthesarahandcompany wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »Can we, for god's sake, stop fighting against each other, and just demand the ability to queue whatever game mode we'd like to play? It's so easy ZOS, just do it already.
Disagreement isn't fighting. Different points of view isn't fighting. Having an opinion that *seems* to be neutral like you are suggesting here isn't a superior intellectual stance. It's a forum for people to voice their thoughts.
I think he just means that we can keep saying we want and love dm, and the objective crowd can keep saying they want objectives and dislike dm, but ultimately that won't go anywhere.
But if we all say "let us choose" it could get us somewhere.
That's not what we're saying. We're saying this test is fundamentally biased at the detriment to deathmatch queue players. The test should be extended for another patch or until the next DLC release.
It was grossly biased for DM players i.e they literally forced every BG play in the game to play DM or nothing, you cant get much more biased than that. Its Moot anyway, the impact of Dm only BG was so dire that objective modes are returning asap, but BM players get a nice bonus, a DM only queue. If its popular the queue will tick over quickly. win win for all.
That's not true. BGs are less populated right now because of New World. Period.
no, it was less populated because of new world AND drop of objective based BG, its already been confirmed by an official.
" A frequent complaint we saw, though, was the disappointment that we removed something that is ultimately at the core of our game: the freedom of choice. And in the case of this test, the data appeared to back that up as well. Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state."
There might be a correlation between those two things, but the true cause as to why BGs have faltered, and pvp generally, is the release of New World. It's also partially due to ZOS being unresponsive to the PvP community, especially deathmatch players, over the last two years moreso.
Time to lie in the beds we make.Edited by thesarahandcompany on October 22, 2021 6:04PMSarahandcompany
She/Her/Hers2 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thesarahandcompany wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »Can we, for god's sake, stop fighting against each other, and just demand the ability to queue whatever game mode we'd like to play? It's so easy ZOS, just do it already.
Disagreement isn't fighting. Different points of view isn't fighting. Having an opinion that *seems* to be neutral like you are suggesting here isn't a superior intellectual stance. It's a forum for people to voice their thoughts.
I think he just means that we can keep saying we want and love dm, and the objective crowd can keep saying they want objectives and dislike dm, but ultimately that won't go anywhere.
But if we all say "let us choose" it could get us somewhere.
That's not what we're saying. We're saying this test is fundamentally biased at the detriment to deathmatch queue players. The test should be extended for another patch or until the next DLC release.
Yes, I agreePC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden1 -
Dem_kitkats1✭✭✭✭thesarahandcompany wrote: »_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »
Screw players who like other types of BG is it? How would you feel if all PVP was removed because the devs wanted to experiment on PVE only ESO...
Pretty much. I don't care about objective modes. If y'all get them, great. If you don't, I don't care. No tea, no shade to you.
Most of the players who left were because we've effectively not had DM queues for two years until now.
I'm not responding to your scenario because it's bait, illogical and irrelevant to the conversation.
its not bait, its the same lthesarahandcompany wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »Can we, for god's sake, stop fighting against each other, and just demand the ability to queue whatever game mode we'd like to play? It's so easy ZOS, just do it already.
Disagreement isn't fighting. Different points of view isn't fighting. Having an opinion that *seems* to be neutral like you are suggesting here isn't a superior intellectual stance. It's a forum for people to voice their thoughts.
I think he just means that we can keep saying we want and love dm, and the objective crowd can keep saying they want objectives and dislike dm, but ultimately that won't go anywhere.
But if we all say "let us choose" it could get us somewhere.
That's not what we're saying. We're saying this test is fundamentally biased at the detriment to deathmatch queue players. The test should be extended for another patch or until the next DLC release.
It was grossly biased for DM players i.e they literally forced every BG play in the game to play DM or nothing, you cant get much more biased than that. Its Moot anyway, the impact of Dm only BG was so dire that objective modes are returning asap, but BM players get a nice bonus, a DM only queue. If its popular the queue will tick over quickly. win win for all.
That's not true. BGs are less populated right now because of New World. Period.
no, it was less populated because of new world AND drop of objective based BG, its already been confirmed by an official.
" A frequent complaint we saw, though, was the disappointment that we removed something that is ultimately at the core of our game: the freedom of choice. And in the case of this test, the data appeared to back that up as well. Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state."
There might be a correlation between those two things, but the true cause as to why BGs have faltered, and pvp generally, is the release of New World. It's also partially due to ZOS being unresponsive to the PvP community, especially deathmatch players, over the last two years moreso.
Time to lie in the beds we make.
I agree. The DM only que wasn't at all the biggest factor in the decline of population in BGs. The population was declining before then. The introduction of more overtuned sets that people didn't want, and the ongoing issues with lag and bugs with servers was what really pushed a lot of people to leave. That paired with the launch of New World was a deadly combo for pvp.Edited by Dem_kitkats1 on October 24, 2021 2:57AM2 -
_adhyffbjjjf12✭✭✭✭✭gariondavey wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »Can we, for god's sake, stop fighting against each other, and just demand the ability to queue whatever game mode we'd like to play? It's so easy ZOS, just do it already.
Disagreement isn't fighting. Different points of view isn't fighting. Having an opinion that *seems* to be neutral like you are suggesting here isn't a superior intellectual stance. It's a forum for people to voice their thoughts.
I think he just means that we can keep saying we want and love dm, and the objective crowd can keep saying they want objectives and dislike dm, but ultimately that won't go anywhere.
But if we all say "let us choose" it could get us somewhere.
That's not what we're saying. We're saying this test is fundamentally biased at the detriment to deathmatch queue players. The test should be extended for another patch or until the next DLC release.
Yes, I agree
the test was biased against players who want to play anything apart from DM, i.e:
DM only fans - you go what you want.
Players that like both - lost 80% of all content in test.
Players that like objective BG only - lost 80% of all content in test.
new players that would like to try both - lost any chance of trying objective based content
Thats obviously not good, but the end result is how the test should have been - offer both in a menu.
1 -
thesarahandcompany✭✭✭✭_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »Can we, for god's sake, stop fighting against each other, and just demand the ability to queue whatever game mode we'd like to play? It's so easy ZOS, just do it already.
Disagreement isn't fighting. Different points of view isn't fighting. Having an opinion that *seems* to be neutral like you are suggesting here isn't a superior intellectual stance. It's a forum for people to voice their thoughts.
I think he just means that we can keep saying we want and love dm, and the objective crowd can keep saying they want objectives and dislike dm, but ultimately that won't go anywhere.
But if we all say "let us choose" it could get us somewhere.
That's not what we're saying. We're saying this test is fundamentally biased at the detriment to deathmatch queue players. The test should be extended for another patch or until the next DLC release.
Yes, I agree
the test was biased against players who want to play anything apart from DM, i.e:
DM only fans - you go what you want.
Players that like both - lost 80% of all content in test.
Players that like objective BG only - lost 80% of all content in test.
new players that would like to try both - lost any chance of trying objective based content
Thats obviously not good, but the end result is how the test should have been - offer both in a menu.
You're overlooking the broader point DM players have been making. You all lost content for a couple weeks. We lost it for two years. The least you could do is validate those feelings and understand our frustration. But you won't.Sarahandcompany
She/Her/Hers3 -
_adhyffbjjjf12✭✭✭✭✭thesarahandcompany wrote: »_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »Can we, for god's sake, stop fighting against each other, and just demand the ability to queue whatever game mode we'd like to play? It's so easy ZOS, just do it already.
Disagreement isn't fighting. Different points of view isn't fighting. Having an opinion that *seems* to be neutral like you are suggesting here isn't a superior intellectual stance. It's a forum for people to voice their thoughts.
I think he just means that we can keep saying we want and love dm, and the objective crowd can keep saying they want objectives and dislike dm, but ultimately that won't go anywhere.
But if we all say "let us choose" it could get us somewhere.
That's not what we're saying. We're saying this test is fundamentally biased at the detriment to deathmatch queue players. The test should be extended for another patch or until the next DLC release.
Yes, I agree
the test was biased against players who want to play anything apart from DM, i.e:
DM only fans - you go what you want.
Players that like both - lost 80% of all content in test.
Players that like objective BG only - lost 80% of all content in test.
new players that would like to try both - lost any chance of trying objective based content
Thats obviously not good, but the end result is how the test should have been - offer both in a menu.
You're overlooking the broader point DM players have been making. You all lost content for a couple weeks. We lost it for two years. The least you could do is validate those feelings and understand our frustration. But you won't.
Neither should lose anything, its not DM lovers versus the world (and vice versa) that aside I thought they were adding an option to select DM?1 -
thesarahandcompany✭✭✭✭_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »thesarahandcompany wrote: »Can we, for god's sake, stop fighting against each other, and just demand the ability to queue whatever game mode we'd like to play? It's so easy ZOS, just do it already.
Disagreement isn't fighting. Different points of view isn't fighting. Having an opinion that *seems* to be neutral like you are suggesting here isn't a superior intellectual stance. It's a forum for people to voice their thoughts.
I think he just means that we can keep saying we want and love dm, and the objective crowd can keep saying they want objectives and dislike dm, but ultimately that won't go anywhere.
But if we all say "let us choose" it could get us somewhere.
That's not what we're saying. We're saying this test is fundamentally biased at the detriment to deathmatch queue players. The test should be extended for another patch or until the next DLC release.
Yes, I agree
the test was biased against players who want to play anything apart from DM, i.e:
DM only fans - you go what you want.
Players that like both - lost 80% of all content in test.
Players that like objective BG only - lost 80% of all content in test.
new players that would like to try both - lost any chance of trying objective based content
Thats obviously not good, but the end result is how the test should have been - offer both in a menu.
You're overlooking the broader point DM players have been making. You all lost content for a couple weeks. We lost it for two years. The least you could do is validate those feelings and understand our frustration. But you won't.
Neither should lose anything, its not DM lovers versus the world (and vice versa) that aside I thought they were adding an option to select DM?
DM players choose DM because it's more engaging combat. Ya'll have 4 modes to pick from, we have one. DM players lost their only content for two years and ZOS hasn't indicated it's going to do anything else. They've basically taken an "L" on Cyrodill.
So, yea, we are kinda vs everyone. Most of us left for New World, and permanently unless we get newer and more content.Sarahandcompany
She/Her/Hers3