ZOS; will you sit idly by and allow Cyrodiil to sink?

techyeshic · October 2021

Full disclosure; I had gone to another game that shall not be named but we all know which. Yet here I am with doubts on it, as well as remembering many great times in Cyrodiil. Only to return and flirt with the past to find that the servers are no more than EP running over an otherwise empty map. Gone are the days of 3 faction queues. 2 campaigns have EP pop lock and no more than 2 bars of the other factions anywhere. Will ZOS not do anything?

You merely need to look at the forums and see a good chunk of posts about a single set to go along with poor performance, yet it's not a lot as the forums seem slow as well. Regardless of that; are there any plans to at least try to keep a healthy Cyrodiil population, or is it to just be left as an AP farm for one faction with no point?

Some things have not been all that I have hoped; but yet here we are with Cyrodiil looking ever bleaker still. I beg you to do something! Not for me; but even for others that come after. This feels like an abandonment of a large part of the game. A surrender. Will you not fight even for a niche you have carved out in an otherwise flooded market?

auz · October 2021

They are fighting for eso pvp. Didn't you see the sweet catapult emote?

Amottica · October 2021

I doubt Zenimax has a magic wand to improve Cyrodiil's performance.

I have also played NW starting in alpha and continuing in beta (except this last public beta). I do not think Zenimax has anything to worry about. I had hopes that they would polosh NW but sadly it remains unrefined. The cut and paste character selection design is very indicative of how the rest of the game's design. To play the game you first have to farm materials and craft then farm more materials and craft, and so on. The NPCs are just as predictable as they are in ESO and every other MMORPG.

For many this is new and I hope they get some enjoyment out of it. Most of the player base will stay right here and most that are trying NW will return.

I do not like playing a lumberjack and it seems my favorite piece of gear did not make it to live.

NagualV · October 2021

I've played ESO since PC launch, and pvp in ESO since around 2015. I personally am done.

I'm enjoying New World immensely. I see no real reason to come back. It is OBVIOUS the market they want to cater to in ESO. I mean, cmon, are you telling me it's not obvious?

I can only speak for myself, however, long time pvp oriented players like fengrush, Kristofer, have left this game and are enjoying NW as well. There is a reason for that. Sypher is streaming NW for gods sake.

For me, pvp in this game has run its course. If people still enjoy it, great!!! I'm happy for that. I'm a forum participant in all games I play, and so I still check forums out of habit. But I can tell you that as someone who once posted they were never leaving ESO for NW because of my love for this game, well, I have left ESO for NW.....

NW isnt perfect, but it is appealing to a certain kind of player. It has more of what I enjoy and less of what I dont(character design, cosmetics). I love the survival resource gathering element it has, the strategic use of placing a camp and having no mount.....

Finally, again I'll say NW isnt perfect, but it's new and I have more confidence that they will make improvements to it than I have confidence that ESO pvp will become a priority and have attention given to it. ESO is a casual pve game, nothing wrong with it, but that's what it is. For someone who only pvps, eso has become stale.

techyeshic · October 2021

I didn't really want to make this about NW; but I guess it has to be in some way. It's just no matter what the other game is; some people will be happy to move on, and others will come back just as the first 2 replies indicate.

For me; I have many doubts on NW working long term, and come to play ESO and the first thing I notice is just simply running around beating on some higher HP NPCs overland how unresponsive abilities are. Something I once was just used to, I guess. Seems so trivial, but yet something that should be very polished early in a game.

The 2nd thing I see is empty PvP instances save for 1 faction. Really hits a nerve as it's a concern I'd have for the new game as well. More rewarding to join the dominant side than it is to challenge them. Only 1 game is just starting out while the other has heard this issue for years and has not showed a lot of interest in addressing it.

So yes; there is interest to come back, but it feels like there is nothing to come back to. Both of the first replies are right while being opposite.

NagualV · October 2021

techyeshic wrote: »

I didn't really want to make this about NW; but I guess it has to be in some way. It's just no matter what the other game is; some people will be happy to move on, and others will come back just as the first 2 replies indicate.

For me; I have many doubts on NW working long term, and come to play ESO and the first thing I notice is just simply running around beating on some higher HP NPCs overland how unresponsive abilities are. Something I once was just used to, I guess. Seems so trivial, but yet something that should be very polished early in a game.

The 2nd thing I see is empty PvP instances save for 1 faction. Really hits a nerve as it's a concern I'd have for the new game as well. More rewarding to join the dominant side than it is to challenge them. Only 1 game is just starting out while the other has heard this issue for years and has not showed a lot of interest in addressing it.

So yes; there is interest to come back, but it feels like there is nothing to come back to. Both of the first replies are right while being opposite.

Yeah, I hear you loud and clear. I didnt want to leave ESO, I posted just that some time ago in a different thread.

For me the key is priority.....theres a reason why all of these issues havent been fixed/addressed. ZOS is very smart, they know what they are doing. ESO is highly successful. They chose the path they are on, and it really works for them. I dont feel pvp is a serious part of that path. And I think that's what those who want to stay here are having a hard time realizing. Maybe deep down they know it, but they dont want to admit it. I see no indication that path is changing.

I definitely dont think NW is a threat to ESO, outside of pvp. And then, I'm a pvp only player who has always loved open world cyrodil the most. NW is like, exactly what I like most(despite people not flagging enough, I've still already made a lot of friends after open world fights, which is my idea of a good time). So NW might even only be a threat to ESO for a certain type of pvp player, just my thought.

It may or may not work out in NW, but as you've said, here there isnt anything right now, and that's by choice. Why eat stale bread when there's a new loaf.

Kartalin · October 2021

I’m playing both games right now, guild has ESO pvp raids twice a week and some of us play NW the rest of the time.

We play on DC in Ravenwatch right now and the pops were 3-1-1 with AD at three bars. We actually started with Emp and 1 keep left because of night capping (another issue entirely) but we just could not gain any ground, our 11 trying to face literally 30+ players (two larger guild groups, and a mix of smaller groups and pugs) on a no proc campaign everywhere we went, even at resources. Eventually they pushed us to gates and took scrolls.

The mindset is baffling: they’d rather completely dominate the map and quash any chance of opposition showing up rather than try to foster and balance the population. But also they are insane because while there was a total of 15 people defending the last scroll we get accused of zerging on top of it all. It’s pretty much a joke at this point. We still got 200k AP in a little over two hours with low pop, but it was hard fought.

neferpitou73 · October 2021

Kartalin wrote: »

I’m playing both games right now, guild has ESO pvp raids twice a week and some of us play NW the rest of the time.

We play on DC in Ravenwatch right now and the pops were 3-1-1 with AD at three bars. We actually started with Emp and 1 keep left because of night capping (another issue entirely) but we just could not gain any ground, our 11 trying to face literally 30+ players (two larger guild groups, and a mix of smaller groups and pugs) on a no proc campaign everywhere we went, even at resources. Eventually they pushed us to gates and took scrolls.

The mindset is baffling: they’d rather completely dominate the map and quash any chance of opposition showing up rather than try to foster and balance the population. But also they are insane because while there was a total of 15 people defending the last scroll we get accused of zerging on top of it all. It’s pretty much a joke at this point. We still got 200k AP in a little over two hours with low pop, but it was hard fought.

Yep, we fought 20ish v 50 tonight. We'll wipe a dozen of them but more just show up The pops are just way to unbalanced for the campaign to be winnable right now. AoC used to have a rule against gate camping for this reason, noone wants to play in Raven right now.

As to the thread title: *begins to play "Nearer My God to Thee"*

hands0medevil · October 2021

They have everything to fix cyro, but they need to want it and do it seriously. Sadly, we have to accept it that Devs priority is to release 1 chapter and 3 dlc each year, because it brings profit. As long as money is flowing, noone can be blamed in Zeni for the state of Cyrodiil. If there is no money from Cyrodiil on the horizon, why even bother touching it. They treat pvp players like some incredibly not so smart people by disabling or enabling sets as some part of greater performance fix plan (yeah sure), adding some silly emotes as new pvp content etc. It's so good to see smiling zos staff during official streams, it really is, but it is not reflecting state of the game.

techyeshic · October 2021

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

I’m playing both games right now, guild has ESO pvp raids twice a week and some of us play NW the rest of the time.

We play on DC in Ravenwatch right now and the pops were 3-1-1 with AD at three bars. We actually started with Emp and 1 keep left because of night capping (another issue entirely) but we just could not gain any ground, our 11 trying to face literally 30+ players (two larger guild groups, and a mix of smaller groups and pugs) on a no proc campaign everywhere we went, even at resources. Eventually they pushed us to gates and took scrolls.

The mindset is baffling: they’d rather completely dominate the map and quash any chance of opposition showing up rather than try to foster and balance the population. But also they are insane because while there was a total of 15 people defending the last scroll we get accused of zerging on top of it all. It’s pretty much a joke at this point. We still got 200k AP in a little over two hours with low pop, but it was hard fought.

Yep, we fought 20ish v 50 tonight. We'll wipe a dozen of them but more just show up The pops are just way to unbalanced for the campaign to be winnable right now. AoC used to have a rule against gate camping for this reason, noone wants to play in Raven right now.

As to the thread title: *begins to play "Nearer My God to Thee"*

I'm sorry, but there indeed is not enough room for one more on this door.

neferpitou73 · October 2021

hands0medevil wrote: »

They have everything to fix cyro, but they need to want it and do it seriously. Sadly, we have to accept it that Devs priority is to release 1 chapter and 3 dlc each year, because it brings profit. As long as money is flowing, noone can be blamed in Zeni for the state of Cyrodiil. If there is no money from Cyrodiil on the horizon, why even bother touching it. They treat pvp players like some incredibly not so smart people by disabling or enabling sets as some part of greater performance fix plan (yeah sure), adding some silly emotes as new pvp content etc. It's so good to see smiling zos staff during official streams, it really is, but it is not reflecting state of the game.

The thing tho is a lot of PvPers are loyal subscribers and many of them are dropping and moving to NW because of the performance. Now, that might not cut into their bottom line much, but it's still money lost.

NagualV · October 2021

neferpitou73 wrote: »

hands0medevil wrote: »

They have everything to fix cyro, but they need to want it and do it seriously. Sadly, we have to accept it that Devs priority is to release 1 chapter and 3 dlc each year, because it brings profit. As long as money is flowing, noone can be blamed in Zeni for the state of Cyrodiil. If there is no money from Cyrodiil on the horizon, why even bother touching it. They treat pvp players like some incredibly not so smart people by disabling or enabling sets as some part of greater performance fix plan (yeah sure), adding some silly emotes as new pvp content etc. It's so good to see smiling zos staff during official streams, it really is, but it is not reflecting state of the game.

The thing tho is a lot of PvPers are loyal subscribers and many of them are dropping and moving to NW because of the performance. Now, that might not cut into their bottom line much, but it's still money lost.

I'm one of them. Here since PC launch.

It's not just performance for me, either, although that's a big part of it.

What's new in cyrodil since launch? I prefer open world pvp, I'm not that into battlegrounds. Again, what's new since launch in cyrodil?

Ballcap · October 2021

NagualV wrote: »

What's new in cyrodil since launch? I prefer open world pvp, I'm not that into battlegrounds. Again, what's new since launch in cyrodil?

New since launch? Well, the breakable gates and bridges are new. They removed the doors from resource towers. They added new outposts at Brindle, Drakelowe, and Dragonclaw. They changed the way the outlying castles work giving them an AP bonus if owned. The resources affect the strength of the walls/doors/npc's. Love it or hate it, the hammer is new. Imperial City is new since launch. There used to be entrances to it within Cyrodiil. Respawn camps are new too. The new and different PVP vendors. A new quest board with bigger rewards. The towns are also new since launch. They were also changed since their launch to become fast travel locations. That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

I'm with you, there are things I would like to see changed about Cyrodiil but it's not right to say that nothing has changed since launch.

Integral1900 · October 2021

Yay 😁

NagualV · October 2021

Ballcap wrote: »

NagualV wrote: »

What's new in cyrodil since launch? I prefer open world pvp, I'm not that into battlegrounds. Again, what's new since launch in cyrodil?

New since launch? Well, the breakable gates and bridges are new. They removed the doors from resource towers. They added new outposts at Brindle, Drakelowe, and Dragonclaw. They changed the way the outlying castles work giving them an AP bonus if owned. The resources affect the strength of the walls/doors/npc's. Love it or hate it, the hammer is new. Imperial City is new since launch. There used to be entrances to it within Cyrodiil. Respawn camps are new too. The new and different PVP vendors. A new quest board with bigger rewards. The towns are also new since launch. They were also changed since their launch to become fast travel locations. That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

I'm with you, there are things I would like to see changed about Cyrodiil but it's not right to say that nothing has changed since launch.

Good. Someone finally provided a list.

Go back through that list, think about it, think about how much content that is. What type of content. Think about the fact that this is since April of 2014, and tell me if that is enough content added. Its October 2021.

If someone feels like that's enough content for cyrodil, great. Carry on and enjoy.

For me it's just lol.

blktauna · October 2021

Why do people even care what this Sypher person streams? He's been gone how long? Srsly.

My thoughts are that pvp is getting phased out step by step.

techyeshic · October 2021

blktauna wrote: »

Why do people even care what this Sypher person streams? He's been gone how long? Srsly.

My thoughts are that pvp is getting phased out step by step.

Streamers tend to be free advertising and generally have followers also play their main game. There's not a lot left, if any; ESO streamers that really focus on PvP.

I think you are right; though. Its getting phased out. There is good logic in people coming back as they often do when a new game loses that shine; but I played tonight and its just become even more noticeable how unresponsive abilities are. It's not bad; it's abysmal.

Rhaegar75 · October 2021

just a few thoughts on NW.....soooooo boring. I was hoping for a ton of open world PvP but it's fundamentally a PvE survival game with a rather boring grind!!

geonsocal · October 2021

I have a feeling I'll still be in cyrodiil pouring flaming oil on folks when zos finally turns the lights out on the game...

danthemann5 · October 2021

I'll answer for them: Yes.

Artim_X · October 2021

At this rate Cyrodiil will be sunsetted and turned into the pve zone that some of the forum pvers crave.

A random Whitestrake's Mayhem right after the Halloween event might be exactly what Cyrodiil needs to boost up the pop, albeit temporarily especially if new rewards are added to incentivize participation.

Karivaa · November 2021

Maybe they should make a completely different map for Cyrodiil and start over with the coding to fix everything in it? New maps would be fun!

Artim_X · November 2021

Karivaa wrote: »

Maybe they should make a completely different map for Cyrodiil and start over with the coding to fix everything in it? New maps would be fun!

I would actually like that and I'm sure others would like to see a different type of Cyrodiil that actually works. From a lore perspective they could just do a dragon break to explain why some things are a bit different (jungle terrain mentioned in lore returns). The only issue I see is that this would require a lot of time and effort just to make a more functional version of old content, which I don't see ZOS doing anytime soon (takes away from content release schedule) even if new added features might draw in more players.

vamp_emily · December 2021

I think Zeni failed because they let one faction dominate in numbers. I have seen it 1 bars vs a poplock before. This is not fun and should never be allowed.

I think they should lower the pop cap to maybe 2 bars until all sides have a high que.

I don't play any more, not sure if I ever will again. I'm not playing any other game. ESO was the only game I will ever play. But from a customers view, I found the game fun but it becomes not fun when 1 faction becomes over populated when other factions only have a few people playing.

Theignson · December 2021

vamp_emily wrote: »

I think Zeni failed because they let one faction dominate in numbers. I have seen it 1 bars vs a poplock before. This is not fun and should never be allowed.

I think they should lower the pop cap to maybe 2 bars until all sides have a high que.

I don't play any more, not sure if I ever will again. I'm not playing any other game. ESO was the only game I will ever play. But from a customers view, I found the game fun but it becomes not fun when 1 faction becomes over populated when other factions only have a few people playing.

I echo this post. I have PVPed for many years. There used to be poplocked factions on all 3 alliances and there would be huge battles-- tons of fun.

About 2 years ago I had to switch to PST time zone.

For about a year when I log on (~1030 PST), there is a pop locked AD zerg that nightcaps, and 1-2 bars of EP that gets steamrolled, almost every night. DC is also 1-2 bars. The only visible DC online are packs of trolls, 2-4 per group, who run to every battle or to towers at objectives and 2-4v1 hapless pugs (sometimes it is solo trolls who usually run around the towers). The DC trolls have no interest in the map. After the AD zerg Emps and takes EP scrolls they often take DC scrolls.

As noted, the game used to be fun, but it is no fun to get steamrolled every night. I have, regretfully, recently stopped playing. Maybe I can find a way to log on earlier and maybe the populations are healthier.

Can you think of any sport in existence which allows a 4 to 1 advantage on the playing field? Teams need to be equal. What if you logged into battlefields and it was 4 on the other two teams and only 1 on your team?-- of course it would make no sense. But that's what it is every night when I log in solo to Zerodil these days.

Heike · December 2021

I went with @Kartalin to NW and I think that his points are valid.

I also agree with @gameswithaspoon in that AD got to feel the sharp end of the DC/EP zergs for so many years, concurrently, that no one can blame them if they win multiple campaigns in a row. I mained AD for 6 years. I remember Braidus and Feng and the PILES of 100+ zergs, quite well.

I’m on DC now, because that’s where my guild is.
And trust me when I say that we’ve had conversations about swapping to AD, mid-raid. But the AD numbers always increase and we wind up staying on DC… and getting blasted by 40+.

When I started, I bled AD. I hated Sevric on DC. Now I’m friends with him. I screamed at Callisto on EP. Now I’ve played 3 other games with him; we’re good friends. It was great talking with Belenthor the other night. I told him it was good to see EP showing up. I hated his guild for years. lol

I think the problem for PvP’ers on this map now is, #1) they have other MMOs to run to, moreso than they did in 2015. When we get stomped… we just log. But people will come back. They always do.
And #2) Not enough people experience playing on other factions. When you DO, it changes your perspective. And with players, go their friends with them to another faction. And numbers *could* even out.

And there’s no hate there. There’s no toxicity there. I’ve never sent hatetells to Spoons. Or DC92, or his brother lol. I laugh and joke and troll back and forth with them all night. Same with Tris, Snyds, Raise… even Jadingo.

Why?

Because populations fluctuate. They always have and always will. And even though no one likes to lose, the fact is: You’re going to. Get fights where you can. And log off when you’re done. Have fun.

No amount of forum posts are going to convince guild leaders to spam zone chat with “unwritten rules.” They either will, tell people not to gate camp, or they won’t. They’ll either encourage small scale fights, or they won’t. But they’re not the politicians that some people think should be mandated, nor should they be politicians.

When EP plays, they play. If DC zergs at midnight, then they will. And if AD dethrones at 7am, holds the map and wins a campaign, then good on them.

As for ZoS, I think the Devs are just letting it play out, and doing the best they know how. I think it’s the players who should change their perspectives sometimes.

Cheers,

VagabondAngel · December 2021

Faction imbalance didn't kill Cyrodiil, knee-jerk meta changes and ***-poor performance did that a long, long time ago. Its been hanging by a thread for the simple reason that some skills are exclusive to PvP and the lure of AP and maybe even FW ranks remain for some people.

I and many of the people I played with post-launch bought ESO almost exclusively for the promise of large scale PvP battles on a huge map but it never delivered what was promised and quickly became a lag fest of epic proportions populated by many a cheat engine user with new exploits and unbeatable fotm builds with each new update.

Its sad and although I'll always have nostalgic memory of the time I spent in Cyrodiil, ESO is nothing more than a micro-transaction fuelled PvE machine for quick fix set hunters and aesthetics junkies. PvPers in ESO are the equivalent of dinosaurs now, fighting for scraps in a world too small for their appetites.

xDeusEJRx · December 2021

VagabondAngel wrote: »

Faction imbalance didn't kill Cyrodiil, knee-jerk meta changes and ***-poor performance did that a long, long time ago. Its been hanging by a thread for the simple reason that some skills are exclusive to PvP and the lure of AP and maybe even FW ranks remain for some people.

I and many of the people I played with post-launch bought ESO almost exclusively for the promise of large scale PvP battles on a huge map but it never delivered what was promised and quickly became a lag fest of epic proportions populated by many a cheat engine user with new exploits and unbeatable fotm builds with each new update.

Its sad and although I'll always have nostalgic memory of the time I spent in Cyrodiil, ESO is nothing more than a micro-transaction fuelled PvE machine for quick fix set hunters and aesthetics junkies. PvPers in ESO are the equivalent of dinosaurs now, fighting for scraps in a world too small for their appetites.

Tbh don't think the poor performance was nail in the coffin. Did it drive away a lot of people? Yes, but I think it was a mixture of factors, GH can still pop lock on console (prior to the blue screen apocalypse), poor performance helped drive down population by a lot but faction stacking really killed it for the loyal players who stuck around even in poor performance. Driving an already small community even more down