Instead of a new class, what about...

adyreonb14_ESO

A classless system. Instead of having a class for the characters (Dragonnight, Nightblade, Warden, etc.) with 3 specific lines for their class, what about removing the "class", but allowing a character to choose any 3 class specific lines for a custom class any time they want to "respec" those lines (but would always be limited to 3 of the class specific lines).

For example, a Nightblade has Assassination, Siphoning, and Shadow for their class lines, and a Dragonknight has Ardent Flame, Draconic Power, and Earthen Heart. Changing all characters to a "custom" class would allow one to create a character with Ardent Flame, Siphoning, and Assassination for example, but they could still create a Nightblade by choosing the standard Nightblade lines if they so wish.

Then for chapters or DLC, they could introduce new class lines (one or more) without having to introduce a new class. They could also release more weapon, world, guild, etc. lines as well to give a large pool to create a character from without the pain of trying to balance a new class.

DrSlaughtr

Yes, that wouldn't be abused at all to create OP characters.

Darian_Rath

It's a balancing nightmare that ends with a single "top build" that everyone would use.

adyreonb14_ESO

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Yes, that wouldn't be abused at all to create OP characters.

At this point, it seems once you unlock enough skills now, you are already OP in PvE; however, I assume you mean PvP, which I don't do much of. Being already limited to 6 skills per bar I don't see where PvE would be affected that much; though I admit since I don't play PvP, I don't know if people mostly use class skills or other skills more.

Just looking to add some more variety to builds...

adyreonb14_ESO

Darian_Rath wrote: »

It's a balancing nightmare that ends with a single "top build" that everyone would use.

Although I don't play meta builds, I've seen a lot of videos on them. Always seems there will always be those that play the top-most DPS or other type builds regardless of any changes that are made.

I create my own, and play PvE almost exclusively; hybrid tanking, etc. and just thinking it could add some creativity to characters rather than always wanting a new class.

Chaos2088

You can sell classes as a new feature for chapters….so they won’t get rid of them.

Also after chapters you can buy them solo in crown store as well. Why would they get rid of a product people buy?

Plus everyone would just pick the best skill lines for damage, tanking, healing etc….and a new meta would be created and just become boring.

WhyMustItBe

Darian_Rath wrote: »

It's a balancing nightmare that ends with a single "top build" that everyone would use.

So pretty much like it is now, or like any other system designed for any MMO ever? That is just human nature.

I actually think they should remake RACIALS this way, so you choose tier 1, 2, 3, 4 from ANY of the available races. Then you could role play your character being a mix-breed as well as not having to be a certain race to have passives that benefit your build.

As for a classless system though, I think while it works great in games like Rift, they would need to completely redo the entire system they have, which sadly isn't very likely to happen. We have a hard enough time getting them to add new morphs like Stamina Whip for DK.

I would much rather see some new weapon trees added after 8 years, like spear, book offhand, etc. which could effectively function like mixed class mechanics as you would be gaining a lot of magicka/stamina skill overlap from existing classes in the new skill trees (ideally).

Gilvoth

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Yes, that wouldn't be abused at all to create OP characters.

no it wont.
morrowind had a classless system and so did oblivion, all they did was make it so you choose from a list of healing skill, damage skill and then magicka and stamina skill trees, it balanced in both those games and it will here as well.

CP5

Gilvoth wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Yes, that wouldn't be abused at all to create OP characters.

no it wont.
morrowind had a classless system and so did oblivion, all they did was make it so you choose from a list of healing skill, damage skill and then magicka and stamina skill trees, it balanced in both those games and it will here as well.

Single player games aren't mmo's. Combining the available classes would result in setups that would greatly out preform all others, pvp would be full of these optimal setups and pve would grow more toxic if people learned a member of their group wasn't running one.

Red_Feather

Guild Wars used a dual profession system to great success. It had well thought out rules.

It prompted websites that listed the hundreds of builds used in game. https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Category:All_working_PvE_builds

Last year's anniversary event only added 10 new skills after years of nothing. And it caused a massive population resurgence. Just 10 skills.

It was the last greatest online rpg I've played. And it seems lately only Josh Strife Hayes has given it attention. Which is a shame because it was a system so well designed it could have gone on and on with such little effort required to keep players coming back.

Sylvermynx

Gilvoth wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Yes, that wouldn't be abused at all to create OP characters.

no it wont.
morrowind had a classless system and so did oblivion, all they did was make it so you choose from a list of healing skill, damage skill and then magicka and stamina skill trees, it balanced in both those games and it will here as well.

Those are single player games. There is no relevance to an mmo - none.

tripp

All singleplayer TES games have always been impossible to balance. In Morrowind it was Alchemy. In Oblivion it was 100% chameleon. In Skyrim it was Enchanting. A free-for-all system like that would not carry over to an MMO. If you were to remove the limitations, you would have to remove all PvP and group PvE activities.

Maya_Nur

With Armory system coming with U32 it is the right time! We already have world skill lines and weapons, so there is nothing impossible After the abolition of a class system ZOS will finally be able to buff vampires and psijic order. There are already players who uses just weapon skills and non-class abilities and do content with no problem.

To earn former-class skill lines we can just do quests related to them:
— For a nightblade it may be the overwrighting DB's skill line
— Telvani quests for a sorcerer (as dunmers worship daedric princes)
— For a templar some knight orders in Daggerfall
— Same as previous for a dragonknight
— Wardens may come from some of the forest locations
— Elemental magic through mages guild
And so on. And it is still can be sold if someone worries about poor devs As for me, all classes should be free for all.

alanmatillab16_ESO

Gilvoth wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Yes, that wouldn't be abused at all to create OP characters.

no it wont.
morrowind had a classless system and so did oblivion, all they did was make it so you choose from a list of healing skill, damage skill and then magicka and stamina skill trees, it balanced in both those games and it will here as well.

How do you know it was balanced when those games were single player? It isnt like there were forums full of NPCs complaining about how a certain abilithy was OP and needed nerfing.

While ESO has its current PVP system classless system would simply end up with flavour of the month "builds" that the top % of guilds would insist you have. Just like we have now and would have with any system, such is the nature of MMOs.

Monte_Cristo

I've wanted this for a while, too. I want my elemental wizard!

Dark_Lord_Kuro

So everyone is told to use thes 3 skill line for a dps, these 3 for a heal and these other 3 for a tank
So instead of having 6 class×4 type of build we would get 3-4 type of build

Sorry but its one of the dumbest idea i heard of for this game

Tandor

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

So everyone is told to use thes 3 skill line for a dps, these 3 for a heal and these other 3 for a tank
So instead of having 6 class×4 type of build we would get 3-4 type of build

Sorry but its one of the dumbest idea i heard of for this game

I couldn't agree more.

Also, attempts to justify it by reference to single-player RPGs are a nonsense.

finehair

Gilvoth wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Yes, that wouldn't be abused at all to create OP characters.

no it wont.
morrowind had a classless system and so did oblivion, all they did was make it so you choose from a list of healing skill, damage skill and then magicka and stamina skill trees, it balanced in both those games and it will here as well.

Morrowind, oblivion and Skyrim all had classless systems.
In all of them you could make a literal god build that one shots everything with just by looking at their general direction.

Ksariyu

It'll never happen, but I agree it would be a better solution. Classes just don't work if you also have a system that allows people to bypass every weakness they have, and which in many cases actually outshines the class system itself. Yes, the change would take time to re-balance, but I think it'd be worth it.

Maya_Nur wrote: »

With Armory system coming with U32 it is the right time! We already have world skill lines and weapons, so there is nothing impossible After the abolition of a class system ZOS will finally be able to buff vampires and psijic order. There are already players who uses just weapon skills and non-class abilities and do content with no problem.

To earn former-class skill lines we can just do quests related to them:
— For a nightblade it may be the overwrighting DB's skill line
— Telvani quests for a sorcerer (as dunmers worship daedric princes)
— For a templar some knight orders in Daggerfall
— Same as previous for a dragonknight
— Wardens may come from some of the forest locations
— Elemental magic through mages guild
And so on. And it is still can be sold if someone worries about poor devs As for me, all classes should be free for all.

For real, this. If they wanted to keep the idea of the classes, just make them new guilds, but at least they'd be accessible to everyone. In no other ES game are necromancy and daedric summoning exclusive to each other. Why here?

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

So everyone is told to use thes 3 skill line for a dps, these 3 for a heal and these other 3 for a tank
So instead of having 6 class×4 type of build we would get 3-4 type of build

Sorry but its one of the dumbest idea i heard of for this game

So, if I look at the current meta builds for Trials, we have every Stam-DPS under the sun using bow back-bar with Endless Hail, which isn't a class skill. They're also all using Vigor, which isn't a class skill. Barbed Trap is also universal, and also not a class skill. Dawnbreaker is also on every one of these builds, and is not a class skill.
Then on the magic side we've got literally EVERYONE using Elemental Wall, one morph or the other, which isn't a class skill. Non-tanks are using Orbs pretty much everywhere, which isn't a class skill. Then Shooting Star. . . Inner Light. . . . And of course let's not forget Warhorn.

You get the point? There already is no build diversity. Just because your class uses a slightly different color DoT than the other doesn't actually change the build or the gameplay. Sorcs are the ONLY real outlier and that's because of their pets. There already is only 4 builds, which would be 3 if there wasn't an arbitrary divide between physical and magical damage. So if every top-tier build is going to be the same anyway, then I'd rather at least have options for my garbage overland RP build. RIP Elemental mages ESO 2014

ealdwin

While I would love to see a more open system akin to the TES main series titles, the proposed solution would end up a balancing nightmare. Keep in mind that while similar skills are balanced against each other, skills are also balanced within the context of the class kit. Removing that context would allow build variety, yes, but it would also allow unbalanced combinations of skills that were not balanced to be used together. The end result would likely be significant nerfs across the board to a number of skills.

Rather that opening up that pandora's box, there are some other solutions that might work.

For one, finally ditch the nonsense that the "schools of magic don't exist in this era". They do, and they were mentioned in the Meet the Character for Waking Flame. New skill lines could be created for each of the schools of magic that are not dependent on a weapon (ie. "guild' type skills) that cover all the basics for Mages. For the Warriors, you could go further and create skills such as Athletics to give more generic options. The essential idea though, is that it is time to bring the schools of magic into the game as generic non-weapon skill lines.

Second, Spellcrafting. Yes, it's been brought up before, and it'll be brought up again. The ability to create a skill line according to our wants for a build would go a long way towards opening up build diversity.

Destai

Red_Feather wrote: »

Guild Wars used a dual profession system to great success. It had well thought out rules.

It prompted websites that listed the hundreds of builds used in game. https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Category:All_working_PvE_builds

Last year's anniversary event only added 10 new skills after years of nothing. And it caused a massive population resurgence. Just 10 skills.

It was the last greatest online rpg I've played. And it seems lately only Josh Strife Hayes has given it attention. Which is a shame because it was a system so well designed it could have gone on and on with such little effort required to keep players coming back.

Nothing will ever beat the feeling I had when I first discovered that game. Monk and Mesmer were the best.

jaws343

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

So everyone is told to use thes 3 skill line for a dps, these 3 for a heal and these other 3 for a tank
So instead of having 6 class×4 type of build we would get 3-4 type of build

Sorry but its one of the dumbest idea i heard of for this game

Seriously, Give me the following 3 skill lines and I will show you a build that would never die and would annihilate everyone.

Sorcerer - Storm Calling (For Streak, Boundless, execute, crit surge)
Templar - Restoring Light (For Breath of Life, Extended Ritual)
Necro - Grave Lord (For Blastbones, Boneyard, Arcanist)
And Force pulse for the spammable. Using the Sorc Ult frontbar and the Necro Ult back bar for Single and Group target options.

Iccotak

It’s too late for a Classless System

That’s something that has to be developed before the game comes out

Right now we’re getting the next best thing in the form of the Armory System.
That gives you a lot of freedom with just one class.

mocap

Iccotak wrote: »

It’s too late for a Classless System

i think ZOS can balance classless system if they start, lets say - now, and finish like in 2025. By that time they can separate PvP from PvE like skills, CP and even some gear.

Who knows? They can do anything*. It isn't that hard for ZOS as many players think.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

Phaedryn

A complete, from the ground up, redesign? Something tells me that's not going to happen (maybe in ESO 2 if there ever is one). aside from that, balancing would be nearly impossible.

Mandragora

Someone had a great idea about this before - about trees which could be used together, but it seems that ZOS decided not to go that way, but creating hybrids instead. I wish that post would be possible to dig somewhere, because it was so elegant, simple and totally TES like.

DrSlaughtr

Gilvoth wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Yes, that wouldn't be abused at all to create OP characters.

no it wont.
morrowind had a classless system and so did oblivion, all they did was make it so you choose from a list of healing skill, damage skill and then magicka and stamina skill trees, it balanced in both those games and it will here as well.

Those are single player games. Surely you understand there's a difference.

Here's an example.

Give me the Necro toolkit with shadowy disguise. Fear -> colossus - > shadowy disguise -> soul tether.

BXR_Lonestar

Instead of a new class, it would be cool if they made a new tree for each class skill line, or perhaps, just a new line of morphs for each ability. So instead of 2 morphs after hitting Rank 4, there are 3 morphs to choose from.

Mesite

I think there was a reason that the systems in the original Morrowind and Oblivion were abandoned when Skyrim came out. It was hard work to build an exceptional character in the single player games. Skyrim was better though. But I prefer the existing system in ESO with classes.

Castagere

All they have to do is give all the races their proper racial passives according to their lore and you would have a diverse game with many kinds of builds.