Harder overland? Please, no.

myskyrim26

I'm tired of explaining why overland is pretty good now. But let me do it once more.

What you are doing wrong is:

1. You max your level, max your CPs and get all meta golden gear for VET DUNGEONES and TRIALS - the hardest ESO content. You practice rotation and weaving - actually, you try to beat the game mechanics AS MUCH AS YOU CAN.

2. You, having done all the above (!) go and oneshot a Skeever in a starter zone.

3. You, never thinking about 19 millions of other players, cry that oneshoting a Skeever in a starter zone is... boring.

Now here's my screenshot. I'm playing since 2016. This is my character, CP 1105. Killed by 3 Imps while doing Survey Map. I don't know how to do weaving (or whatever that weird game violation is called), I don't have enough mats to get proper gear for my crafter, I don't have time to farm sets for her - I play only 1-1,5 hour a day, I don't have skillpoints to make her good in fight.



I'm killed by 3 Imps at CP 1105. Harder overland?)) Seriously?))) Hard enough for me, you know. Will it be harder, it will be just unplayable.

You want a harder overland? Make a fresh character. Stop using sets, stop making yout weird rotation piano and that cheating called weaving (yeah, ZOS justified it, I know - still it IS a cheating).

Elvenheart

I agree, personally I like the overland just the way it is, and I’m glad that in this I’m in the majority of players who feel the same way and my position is supported by ZOS and all their data and statements made by Rich Lambert. 😊

Dragonredux

Ok making a thread to counter the other thread, classy

While i don't agree with making every mob harder. I just want harder bosses.

Also, no offense but you know how to press buttons right? I'm really trying to say this as nice as possible

How do you get killed by 3 imps? This isn't even a rotation, class, or gear argument. You can put some random vendor trash with no set bonuses and still survive. Like legitimately how do you do anything in this game questing included.

Also the screenshot really put you in a bad light. You have a bow which is ranged, with snipe slotted which is a spammable. Furthermore, your tripot is up which can heal you and give you stamina back if you were low. So that death was completely avoidable.

Don't want to do Dungeons and Trials? Fine.
But please understand that your struggle is hampered by your skill as a player and not because players use x sets, with y rotation.

dem0n1k

myskyrim26 wrote: »

You want a harder overland? Make a fresh character. Stop using sets, stop making yout weird rotation piano and that cheating called weaving (yeah, ZOS justified it, I know - still it IS a cheating).

TBH, it's not a really good comparison to make to compare you non-geared CP1100 character to making a new character. New characters gain a heap of power & resistance from battle leveling. I regularly roll new characters with no CP assigned & with pickup weapons & armour they can mow through over land mobs & I would have to go AFK to die from them.

Also, animation cancelling is not cheating, it's a game mechanic.

It's really not a great argument as you admit you are not even wearing sets.. because it is so easy to get sets.

(edit) I will add that I really don't care if overland difficulty is adjusted or not. It's been years since I even bothered with overland gameplay.

xclassgaming

Yeah, just keep overland the way it is.

Iron_Warrior

At this point i don't really care if we get harder overland or not but i just wish zos someday makes a poll ingame and ask players " would you like harder overland?" Because i'm sick and tired of both sides of this conversation that pull data out of their ..... And call themselves majority and the other side minority.

Tornaad

I suppose that those who want to have harder content could go without buff food/drinks and try making it harder that way.

ArzyeL

Overland difficulty and in general progression in the game is perfect as it is. There is something for everyone to do, regardless of level, gear and other factors.

Adding roaming overworld veteran bosses(coming in Deadlands zone next DLC) to all zones or a few of them, would be a welcome addition for players that are after a better overworld challenge and Guild hunting nights but that is all i'd like to see changed about it.

spartaxoxo

Dragonredux wrote: »

But please understand that your struggle is hampered by your skill as a player and not because players use x sets, with y rotation.

That's a pretty outrageous strawman. They flat out said they are not as good as a reason why they don't want overland to get harder, they didn't say they are blaming others for their difficulty in this game. Yikes.

Grandchamp1989

I would never ask for mandatory veteran overland, but I would really appreciate an OPTIONAL overland in vet.

spartaxoxo

Iron_Warrior wrote: »

At this point i don't really care if we get harder overland or not but i just wish zos someday makes a poll ingame and ask players " would you like harder overland?" Because i'm sick and tired of both sides of this conversation that pull data out of their ..... And call themselves majority and the other side minority.

The devs have flat out stated the ones who don't want or do difficult content is the vast majority of the game.

spartaxoxo

Zuboko wrote: »

I suppose that those who want to have harder content could go without buff food/drinks and try making it harder that way.

It doesn't work because you can't unlearn being skilled at rhe game even if you hinder yourself. I honestly think most of the people who want this though aren't actually engaging in the difficult content this game has to offer. Like the hardest thing they do is vet crag trials and that's where their lack of access to challenging content comes from. I think they should really try more difficult group content and then they may find Overland more of a relaxing thing in-between difficult play sessions rather than the majority of the things they do.

Iron_Warrior

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Iron_Warrior wrote: »

At this point i don't really care if we get harder overland or not but i just wish zos someday makes a poll ingame and ask players " would you like harder overland?" Because i'm sick and tired of both sides of this conversation that pull data out of their ..... And call themselves majority and the other side minority.

The devs have flat out stated the ones who don't want or do difficult content is the vast majority of the game.

"Difficult content" right now are vet dungeons, trials and arenas. The only data to back up their harder overland statement are the vet zones And to blame the state of the game in those days only on the vet zones is just stupid. So again i don't remember zos ask me or any of my guildies about harder overland content. And yes vet content right now are empty because they are simply too unrewarding for the amount of effort that it takes to finish them so even the people that are capable of doing them will stay away from them and i'm sure if someday they add harder overland with mediocre rewards they will be empty within a month.

Dragonredux

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonredux wrote: »

But please understand that your struggle is hampered by your skill as a player and not because players use x sets, with y rotation.

That's a pretty outrageous strawman. They flat out said they are not as good as a reason why they don't want overland to get harder, they didn't say they are blaming others for their difficulty in this game. Yikes.

Personally, I don't think it's a strawman, but I tire of seeing the counterargument being some form "You guys think it's easy but you do rotation with gold trial gear" when it's not the case at all. I understand people with conditions or time limiations or anything that can hamper their ability but again I feel the OP isn't even trying like
1) Buy some gear from a vendor
2) Buy gear from guild traders (Doesn't need to be expensive)
3) Ask someone from your guilds to craft an item for you

ignoring the MMO side of things, you ignoring RPG mechanics. Of course with underleveled gear, I'm assuming, you're not going to do well.

spartaxoxo

Dragonredux wrote: »

Personally, I don't think it's a strawman

It is one. "This game is already hard for me, and making it any harder would make it impossible for me. I can't do what those skilled players do" in no way equals "Skilled players are the reason I am bad."

Actually they cited their reasons: lack of time to invest into farming gear, lack of know of how to weave, etc. They didn't say "those people are the reason that I am bad." They are casual player with little time to play, such a change would be objectively bad for them. It's a routine counter argument because it's true.

merpins

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

I would never ask for mandatory veteran overland, but I would really appreciate an OPTIONAL overland in vet.

This. This is what people mean.
People aren't asking for harder overland period. People are asking for a vet overland, just like there is vet and normal dungeons.
The main 2 arguments against this are;
1. splitting the playerbase
and 2. it would take them time and resources to do this that could be used on other content.
But for 1. they could just instance non-combat zones like towns differently from other areas, making it so all players (or up to the player count as it is right now with their instancing they use) are shown in these areas,
and 2. it's only going to take minimal effort in terms of man power since it's 90% balancing and requires no new content.

Vet dungeons are pretty empty as well due to the rewards being mediocre. You can get most of the rewards from normal dungeons, so why do vet other than for fun? Rewards should be buffed to make it more of an incentive to do it, and this would be something that would make vet overland bad. If the rewards are bad, vet overland is bad. But not so since it would probably have not just harder mobs, but more mobs kind of like Craglorn, probably making it ideal for grinding levels. Craglorn is also too easy IMO, and could be used as a test case for this. I'd be happy to see vet craglorn before anything else, and if it remains an unpopular option, leave it at that.

tonyblack

So how option for harder overland will affect you if you stay on normal?
And why even complain about difficulty if you yourself admitted that you done nothing to get your character better by equipping gear, learning about skills or using potions? You don’t need dungeon and trial gear or animation canceling to breeze through overland like it is nothing.

StevieKingslayer

I legit made a toon to immersion quest because I hate doing it on my main because everything gets oneshot.

Guess what? I dont run food, I only put on gear i pick up, I level random skills, not skills that help me optimize, just skills i think are cool looking/pleasing and funny to use for her 'rp tier', and guess what? Still too easy.

We don't want -everything- harder, we want an option for certain things to be harder. Otherwise there is no reason for half the playerbase to do it. I repeat again -optional-, you are not forced to do the harder version, -we- instance into the harder version. You can stay in the normal version. This is what we want.

Vet crags are even too easy. So idk what everyone is complaining about. You would have the option, by our desires, to keep everything as is, and we would have the option to have a higher difficulty. You're angry about something that doesn't even exist tbh. No one is desiring to screw you or other casual players over at all - We just want an optional system for those of us that desire something more. And even that is negotiable for us, just make at least the story bosses have a difficulty flag for us, like geez. Its like hello kitty in there for those of us that are somewhat okay at weaving. And trust me, Im -bad- at weaving

trackdemon5512

I just went back to the QuakeCon 2014 Future of ESO Stream.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jk7LrLgRfg

Two things stand out to me:

1) Overland Scaling to CP160 was done not just for balancing combat among all players but also for logical story reasons which stands above all else. It would make no sense if after defeating Molag Bal (or in the present day Mehrunes Dagon) that due to different difficulties a skeever could now one shot you because it was a higher CP than LVL50. This is a key reason why the game is all set to the same difficulty and enemies are now tailored to be harder or easier by either dealing more damage, having more resistances, etc. Everything becomes logically balanced.

2) Hey look. SPELLCRAFTING. Glad to see they were able to find a way to make that work in an MMORPG

bmnoble

Got no problem with the way overland is currently.

Just wish they would put a bit more effort into instanced quests.

The latest prologue quest for the Deadlands Mirri pretty much handled most of the enemies I aggro-ed by herself, they could at least increase the number of mobs or something, instead of the one or two enemies in each corridor.

I know they got some feed back on the forums about how hard the Dragon fights were for some players in the Catland prologue quests but it feels like they have gone too far in the other direction lately.

Vhozek

Mobs are too easy even when I'm naked, level 1, no CP, no buffs, no skills, any weapon except heal staff.
There's a reason I keep making the same argument. My concerns don't come from nowhere.
I made this video a couple of years ago before I figured out it sucks even if you're naked, so I have SOME low level gear here but nothing well or even remotely established.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqPq2FBGkoo
This is legit the way I play the game 90% of the time because I don't need to put any more effort. I also just run around stronger enemies while spamming light attacks and stay out the red zones. I had to remove color coded indicators to even make it remotely more interesting and so far only minotaurs are giving me a hard time... with NO gear on.

Kwoung

myskyrim26 wrote: »

I'm tired of explaining why overland is pretty good now. But let me do it once more.

What you are doing wrong is:

1. You max your level, max your CPs and get all meta golden gear for VET DUNGEONES and TRIALS - the hardest ESO content. You practice rotation and weaving - actually, you try to beat the game mechanics AS MUCH AS YOU CAN.

2. You, having done all the above (!) go and oneshot a Skeever in a starter zone.

3. You, never thinking about 19 millions of other players, cry that oneshoting a Skeever in a starter zone is... boring.

Now here's my screenshot. I'm playing since 2016. This is my character, CP 1105. Killed by 3 Imps while doing Survey Map. I don't know how to do weaving (or whatever that weird game violation is called), I don't have enough mats to get proper gear for my crafter, I don't have time to farm sets for her - I play only 1-1,5 hour a day, I don't have skillpoints to make her good in fight.



I'm killed by 3 Imps at CP 1105. Harder overland?)) Seriously?))) Hard enough for me, you know. Will it be harder, it will be just unplayable.

You want a harder overland? Make a fresh character. Stop using sets, stop making yout weird rotation piano and that cheating called weaving (yeah, ZOS justified it, I know - still it IS a cheating).

Ummm.. since you were doing survey maps, I assume you are a crafter, most likely master level with 9 traits unlocked if you have been at it for 5-6 years now? Why are you not wearing sets, those survey maps alone will reward you enough to gold out 2 complete crafted sets... you do craft right? And quite honestly, you (or your cat/dog/kid) could button mash 1 skill randomly and kill 3 imps. Have you even allotted those 1105 CP? I get the green tree goes to your crafting, but there are 2 other trees that help you stay alive and kill stuff you know.

While your post does absolutely zero to support your argument, I agree that overland is fine how it is. There are plenty of places to find challenges in this game if that is what people actually want.

trackdemon5512

Vhozek wrote: »

Mobs are too easy even when I'm naked, level 1, no CP, no buffs, no skills, any weapon except heal staff.
There's a reason I keep making the same argument. My concerns don't come from nowhere.
I made this video a couple of years ago before I figured out it sucks even if you're naked, so I have SOME low level gear here but nothing well or even remotely established.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqPq2FBGkoo

What you expect that to be hard? To use advanced tactics on you? How long did that take you, 20 seconds for a grunt?

At that rate you wouldn’t get through the original zones for half a decade. And then when would you get to all of the other awesome content they made? All of the quests for which they paid developers to make and voice actors to provide spoken dialogue.

Large scale MMORPGs aren’t designed for the slow simmer crowd.

Vhozek

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

Mobs are too easy even when I'm naked, level 1, no CP, no buffs, no skills, any weapon except heal staff.
There's a reason I keep making the same argument. My concerns don't come from nowhere.
I made this video a couple of years ago before I figured out it sucks even if you're naked, so I have SOME low level gear here but nothing well or even remotely established.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqPq2FBGkoo

What you expect that to be hard? To use advanced tactics on you? How long did that take you, 20 seconds for a grunt?

At that rate you wouldn’t get through the original zones for half a decade. And then when would you get to all of the other awesome content they made? All of the quests for which they paid developers to make and voice actors to provide spoken dialogue.

Large scale MMORPGs aren’t designed for the slow simmer crowd.

The issue is that literally every mob is that way. The only way I can make it interesting is if I gather a bunch of mobs together and at that point I'm just farming for EXP, not going out on an adventure.

Kwoung

Vhozek wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

Mobs are too easy even when I'm naked, level 1, no CP, no buffs, no skills, any weapon except heal staff.
There's a reason I keep making the same argument. My concerns don't come from nowhere.
I made this video a couple of years ago before I figured out it sucks even if you're naked, so I have SOME low level gear here but nothing well or even remotely established.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqPq2FBGkoo

What you expect that to be hard? To use advanced tactics on you? How long did that take you, 20 seconds for a grunt?

At that rate you wouldn’t get through the original zones for half a decade. And then when would you get to all of the other awesome content they made? All of the quests for which they paid developers to make and voice actors to provide spoken dialogue.

Large scale MMORPGs aren’t designed for the slow simmer crowd.

The issue is that literally every mob is that way. The only way I can make it interesting is if I gather a bunch of mobs together and at that point I'm just farming for EXP, not going out on an adventure.

Most of ESO is about the story, not the fighting. I am pretty sure the fighting is there just to slow folks down a tad and keep it interesting. For actual fighting, they have specific content for that, and it isn't the overland setting nor is it the delves, those are both story areas.

Vhozek

Kwoung wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

Mobs are too easy even when I'm naked, level 1, no CP, no buffs, no skills, any weapon except heal staff.
There's a reason I keep making the same argument. My concerns don't come from nowhere.
I made this video a couple of years ago before I figured out it sucks even if you're naked, so I have SOME low level gear here but nothing well or even remotely established.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqPq2FBGkoo

What you expect that to be hard? To use advanced tactics on you? How long did that take you, 20 seconds for a grunt?

At that rate you wouldn’t get through the original zones for half a decade. And then when would you get to all of the other awesome content they made? All of the quests for which they paid developers to make and voice actors to provide spoken dialogue.

Large scale MMORPGs aren’t designed for the slow simmer crowd.

The issue is that literally every mob is that way. The only way I can make it interesting is if I gather a bunch of mobs together and at that point I'm just farming for EXP, not going out on an adventure.

Most of ESO is about the story, not the fighting. I am pretty sure the fighting is there just to slow folks down a tad and keep it interesting. For actual fighting, they have specific content for that, and it isn't the overland setting nor is it the delves, those are both story areas.

"and the threat of the world turned out to be no threat at all actually"
Ah yes, what a great story.

Kwoung

Vhozek wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

Mobs are too easy even when I'm naked, level 1, no CP, no buffs, no skills, any weapon except heal staff.
There's a reason I keep making the same argument. My concerns don't come from nowhere.
I made this video a couple of years ago before I figured out it sucks even if you're naked, so I have SOME low level gear here but nothing well or even remotely established.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqPq2FBGkoo

What you expect that to be hard? To use advanced tactics on you? How long did that take you, 20 seconds for a grunt?

At that rate you wouldn’t get through the original zones for half a decade. And then when would you get to all of the other awesome content they made? All of the quests for which they paid developers to make and voice actors to provide spoken dialogue.

Large scale MMORPGs aren’t designed for the slow simmer crowd.

The issue is that literally every mob is that way. The only way I can make it interesting is if I gather a bunch of mobs together and at that point I'm just farming for EXP, not going out on an adventure.

Most of ESO is about the story, not the fighting. I am pretty sure the fighting is there just to slow folks down a tad and keep it interesting. For actual fighting, they have specific content for that, and it isn't the overland setting nor is it the delves, those are both story areas.

"and the threat of the world turned out to be no threat at all actually"
Ah yes, what a great story.

Quite honestly, I play ESO because it is a MMO and know nothing of the lore, previous single player titles or anything else. Only very recently have I even bothered to read what the NPC's say... but I am apparently the outlier here, as most everyone I know in game is completely into the Elder Scrolls universe (or whatever its called), hook line and sinker. So yup, they made the game pretty much playable for anyone no matter how bad they are at it, so they could experience the story, finish the quests, etc...

Maya_Nur

myskyrim26 wrote: »

3. You, never thinking about 19 millions of other players, cry that oneshoting a Skeever in a starter zone is... boring.

They have decided to remain silent (Or where are they? I can't see). It means they don't care much about how things are and if someone (active part of the community) will decide it for them, then it is fine for them.

Vhozek

Maya_Nur wrote: »

myskyrim26 wrote: »

3. You, never thinking about 19 millions of other players, cry that oneshoting a Skeever in a starter zone is... boring.

They have decided to remain silent (Or where are they? I can't see). It means they don't care much about how things are and if someone (active part of the community) will decide it for them, then it is fine for them.

Those numbers were told to us by ZoS with vague wording so I really doubt it's a real number. If devs don't word it "unique player accounts", don't even bother with the numbers. The way I see it is, count the players on one platform, round it up, and multiply it by the number of platforms that game is on. That's a generous estimate that does not give you 19 million players.

trackdemon5512

Vhozek wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

myskyrim26 wrote: »

3. You, never thinking about 19 millions of other players, cry that oneshoting a Skeever in a starter zone is... boring.

They have decided to remain silent (Or where are they? I can't see). It means they don't care much about how things are and if someone (active part of the community) will decide it for them, then it is fine for them.

Those numbers were told to us by ZoS with vague wording so I really doubt it's a real number. If devs don't word it "unique player accounts", don't even bother with the numbers. The way I see it is, count the players on one platform, round it up, and multiply it by the number of platforms that game is on. That's a generous estimate that does not give you 19 million players.

It’s 19 Million Lifetime Players. So over the course of the last several years 19 million unique accounts with emails have been set up and used.

For comparison total lifetime sales of GTA Vice City across all platforms is at 20 million. Skyrim sits at 30 million across all platforms. Super Mario Bros is at 58 million. GTA V is 150 million across all platforms. Minecraft at 238 million.

Hallothiel

I like harder stuff. Sometimes. When I choose.

Have suggested previously that the last Big Bads on questlines should be instanced, and then a vet option could be introduced relatively easily.

But I would prefer the devs to use their time & resources* to do other more important things in the game that create either a toggle or a whole different vet overland. But then I am fine with overland as it is & prefer not to have ‘epic’ battles with mudcrabs & wolves every 5 yards when trolloping around Tamriel.

And just wanted to say to the posters above who have said that they would want vet to have better rewards - at least you are being honest! Unlike those who shy away from saying this explicitly & go on about the need for a ‘challenge’. 😂

*that’s how it would affect other players. Diverting time & resources from other more important game areas for little return.