Make Stamina Great Again.
Eliran
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Honest to God, why do ZoS keep nerfing Stamina more and more every patch?
Just looking at the PTR, you literally uselessifying us even further.
Even Relequen gonna be used by Magicka users, what good are we then?
And to top it all, you also nerf our abilities and passives.
Its gonna be less damage than current patch + the gap between stamina and magicka gonna be bigger, why even bother with stamina then ???
Consider how hard it is to play as Stamina, avoid stuff and what not, we should naturally do more DPS as compensation for that.
Just looking at the PTR, you literally uselessifying us even further.
Even Relequen gonna be used by Magicka users, what good are we then?
And to top it all, you also nerf our abilities and passives.
Its gonna be less damage than current patch + the gap between stamina and magicka gonna be bigger, why even bother with stamina then ???
Consider how hard it is to play as Stamina, avoid stuff and what not, we should naturally do more DPS as compensation for that.
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Caelnir✭✭✭I think you might be outdated on your ranting. I started to see some stamina players pulling great numbers. Have friends pushing over 100-110k already.8 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So it's some nerfs (which ones lol?) and ability for magicka users to use relequen and other stamina sets is what makes you personally perform worse? Not sure if serious.2 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭colossalvoids wrote: »So it's some nerfs (which ones lol?) and ability for magicka users to use relequen and other stamina sets is what makes you personally perform worse? Not sure if serious.
Because now why would anyone use a melee weapon when there are four ranged weapon options that all benefit from the same stats? Being in melee range should have a higher risk/reward stat than using a flame staff from the doorway13 -
WildLight✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »So it's some nerfs (which ones lol?) and ability for magicka users to use relequen and other stamina sets is what makes you personally perform worse? Not sure if serious.
Yet another medium armour changes from the latest nerfs, for ones. With upcoming crit cap Dexterity passive is a joke.
Which adds up with previous nerfs like worse penetration, crit nerf (yes, it affected both mag and stam but mag has way easier time building for crit), nerf to axes, making it from top tier to bottom tier weapon, changing bleed into a useless debuff, most of the support sets are designed for magicka... All that while stamina toons already have a lot of trouble playing around end-game mechanics.
Parsing on a dummy for 100k+ has nothing to do with viability in content. Stamplar has one of the highest parses in game, doesn't make them any more welcome in the vet trial groups.
Yes, yes, "play how you want" and all that but the bottom line is almost no end-game group would be stubborn and dedicated enough to make a full stam comp work when you can just take the easier and more reliable route to get results.8 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »
Because now why would anyone use a melee weapon when there are four ranged weapon options that all benefit from the same stats? Being in melee range should have a higher risk/reward stat than using a flame staff from the doorway
Everyone plays in melee range already, always were. And vAS just swap to bow, it's fine. Obviously talking about content where things like "stam sux" can matter, meaning trials.
For the stamina arguments to matter they should be unable to clear at least some content, like stamina compositions unable to clear Godslayer one day then yeah it would become an issue. If they're not the first pick it doesn't mean it's balancing issue and not player bias/composition limitations. Maybe there's zero groups made Planesbreaker no idea as I've left raiding time ago so not really monitoring such stuff if those groups are even in the game anymore.
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Ippokrates✭✭✭✭✭I also looked at PTS and saw many wonderful proc sets that now can crit and give you a really great gameplay. Most of them are medium. And as a magicka char, you cannot sustain on full medium. 2-3 pieces max.
Just do not want to be more specific, because of potential nerfs xd2 -
ke.sardenb14_ESO✭✭✭I think stamina have always performed well on the dummy, as far as I can tell everyone hits 100k. I think some changes have benefited stamina play styles(i.e. Carve and stampede).
The hybridization of sets does appear to favor mag more since more endgame stamina sets allow for hybrid stats, while the majority of endgame mag sets have at least 1 line of mag.
Well have to see how this all plays out0 -
AdamLAD✭✭✭✭✭For PvE I agree, for PvP absolutely no chance. Stamina in PvP is already far superior in nearly all aspects compared to magicka. Its tough to balance4
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ResidentContrarian✭✭✭✭✭Some may say stamina is weak, that stamina needs the attention and protection of the dev team... 'Stamina is already great'1
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Crimsonwolf666✭✭✭✭Agree, its always stamina that makes the biggest nerfs. Every now and then Staminas get a boost but Magicka, especially in PvP (since they are literally a dime a dozen) always get more attention and love than Stams. Don't even try to be a Stam DK anymore in groups (whether PvP or PvE vet despite vet Titles I have earned) they will kick you hard core. Also, I find it considerably (personally that is with my PC, mouse, keyboard set up) to Weave/Animation Cancel on magicka players than stamina. You can blame my mouse/keyboard/PC, but I have been through 3 gaming PCs, 5 gaming mouse (4 different brands: SteelSeries, RedDragon, Razor, and Mcat) and 3 keyboards (Viper gaming, AresM1 and Corsair) and despite having great reaction time in other online games (PVE and PVP included) the difference in speed for Animation canceling clearly favors my Magicka classes for me.1 -
npuk✭✭✭For PvE I agree, for PvP absolutely no chance. Stamina in PvP is already far superior in nearly all aspects compared to magicka. Its tough to balance
Exactly!The Sacrificial Warriors GMXbox One EU:18x CP Chars (2300+ CP)Xbox One NA: 3x CP Chars (800+ CP)Xbox One (alt) EU:5x CP Chars (1500+ CP)Xbox One (alt 2) EU:1x CP Chars (450+ CP)PC EU: 1x CP Char (400+ CP)1 -
Oznog666✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Because now why would anyone use a melee weapon when there are four ranged weapon options that all benefit from the same stats? Being in melee range should have a higher risk/reward stat than using a flame staff from the doorway
Because it can be a lot of fun using a stamina char and melee attacks :-)
And this is what not just ESO but any game should be for: having fun, trying new things, entertain the player.PC EU
1 Healer, 1 Tank, 3 DD, 5 more Toons just for fun1 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The thing that has made Stamina less desirable is melee unfriendly mechanics. Daggers enable much higher crit chance and spell damage than you can get with a flame staff, but players still like staves (especially in trials progression) because you can still do damage when mechanics push you away from the boss whereas if your effective range is 5 M and you lose your Relequen and AY stacks your DPS drops off a cliff. You can go with a Bow, but I am not a big fan of Snipe as a spammable because it is channeled.
Making the sets have hybrid stats just gives players more options in terms of set itemization. Melee stamina will still deliver higher DPS, but be harder to use in actual PvE content, so not much will change.Playing since beta...0 -
Hallothiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agree about the melee unfriendly mechs - would be a pleasant change if they had boss mechs where range got punished.
I have friends who main stam & hit hard & they often get excluded from vet hm runs due to the bloody meta being focused on magicka.
Do sometimes wish that the meta didn’t exist.5 -
fizl101✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hallothiel wrote: »Agree about the melee unfriendly mechs - would be a pleasant change if they had boss mechs where range got punished.
I have friends who main stam & hit hard & they often get excluded from vet hm runs due to the bloody meta being focused on magicka.
Do sometimes wish that the meta didn’t exist.
Stamplar main waves hello!Soupy twist0 -
MEBengalsFan2001✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »
Because now why would anyone use a melee weapon when there are four ranged weapon options that all benefit from the same stats? Being in melee range should have a higher risk/reward stat than using a flame staff from the doorway
LMAO...there is no TRUE melee range in this game. There is Range and Mid Range, true melee is up close and personal. If you go to a sparring target check out the actual range each ability hits most hit in the 7m range or so the ability state but it is closer to 10-12M from my experience. Heavy Attack with 2H weapon hit targets at 15M or so if not further back.
Range characters on average are at 18-20m so melee is what 10m. IMO, if the devs buff melee damage they need to reduce the range of all abilities down to 3m and make sure they are at 3m and not state 3m but actually be a 7m+ for the actual range of the ability.
This is just another post about how Stamina DPS need to be top spot in damage rant.Edited by MEBengalsFan2001 on October 7, 2021 5:32PM0 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Honest to God, why do ZoS keep nerfing Stamina more and more every patch?
Just looking at the PTR, you literally uselessifying us even further.
Even Relequen gonna be used by Magicka users, what good are we then?
And to top it all, you also nerf our abilities and passives.
Its gonna be less damage than current patch + the gap between stamina and magicka gonna be bigger, why even bother with stamina then ???
Consider how hard it is to play as Stamina, avoid stuff and what not, we should naturally do more DPS as compensation for that.
The new patch in Nov. will change this. Hybrid builds will become the flavor as all gear will have both Magicka and Stam on it.
What they need / could have done was introduced a new stat like Power and that became what Melee DD used. It's always been slanted toward Magicka since they don't have to use their primary resource to sprint, dodge, block, sneak etc. The only other option would have been to make those type of things go off the highest of the two stats, but magicka to dodge just doesn't make sense.2 -
ResidentContrarian✭✭✭✭✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »
The new patch in Nov. will change this. Hybrid builds will become the flavor as all gear will have both Magicka and Stam on it.
What they need / could have done was introduced a new stat like Power and that became what Melee DD used. It's always been slanted toward Magicka since they don't have to use their primary resource to sprint, dodge, block, sneak etc. The only other option would have been to make those type of things go off the highest of the two stats, but magicka to dodge just doesn't make sense.
We playing the same game, or...?0 -
dinokstrunz✭✭✭✭✭
✭For PvE I agree, for PvP absolutely no chance. Stamina in PvP is already far superior in nearly all aspects compared to magicka. Its tough to balance
Not necessarily. While stamina is powerful. The strongest teams are usually consist of magicka setups thanks to the better access to cross healing. Cross healing is imo over performing these last few patches.1 -
Eliran✭✭✭✭✭Ippokrates wrote: »I also looked at PTS and saw many wonderful proc sets that now can crit and give you a really great gameplay. Most of them are medium. And as a magicka char, you cannot sustain on full medium. 2-3 pieces max.
Just do not want to be more specific, because of potential nerfs xd
For a fact, Relequen jewelry and staff are better than 99% of the sets without wearing a single stamina item.MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »
LMAO...there is no TRUE melee range in this game. There is Range and Mid Range, true melee is up close and personal. If you go to a sparring target check out the actual range each ability hits most hit in the 7m range or so the ability state but it is closer to 10-12M from my experience. Heavy Attack with 2H weapon hit targets at 15M or so if not further back.
Range characters on average are at 18-20m so melee is what 10m. IMO, if the devs buff melee damage they need to reduce the range of all abilities down to 3m and make sure they are at 3m and not state 3m but actually be a 7m+ for the actual range of the ability.
This is just another post about how Stamina DPS need to be top spot in damage rant.
What are you even saying, I am a true meele and if I don't stick to the target, I cant even weave it in order to stack relequen, how ignorant ...I think you might be outdated on your ranting. I started to see some stamina players pulling great numbers. Have friends pushing over 100-110k already.
Parse have nothing to do with it, I also hit those numbers.
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Almost 95% of the hard content in this game in DLC HM Veteran Dungeons and about 80% of Trials is simply NOT melee friendly in any way, shape or form.
The fact I have to move and dance around stuff while a range guy just find a goochie spot and hardly move compare to me should already be a red alarm.
There are simply NOT any "Easy Mode" stamina builds, all are highest skill cap.
I don't want you to make it easier on mechanics, I just want people to justify taking a melee guy that have higher chance to "***".
Keep buffing Magicka and nerfing Stamina every patch only make above argument even stronger as stamina become an even worse choice as time pass.3 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am happy that magplars can now make use of Deadly Strikes but it's kind of weird how that set is now not worth it anymore for stamplars. At that point couldn't they just have left Deadly Strikes as it was (at 20% only for martial damage) and made a new set that gives 15% to all dots and channeled damage?
ZOS' hybridization changes are actually just more homogenization changes. What's the point in wanting to specialize in one thing when the hybrid police comes in and makes everything the same? They should have just fixed the old pelinal set and made heavy attacks restore your greater maximum resource instead of tying them to either magicka or stamina. At this point they might as well make magicka and stamina into a single "resource" stat.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.0 -
merpins✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Optimally, regardless of your build as a DPS, the setup will be like this:
(dps) (dps)
(boss)
(tank)
(healer)
The boss faces the tank. The healer is behind the tank facing the boss. And the dps' are behind the boss facing it. This is for bosses that don't move around all the time or bosses that don't have a weird mechanic like the orb one from Dread Cellar. Most of the time, this is the setup. You NEED to be in range of the healer's buffs, so you also need to be close to the boss, and you need to dodge the AOE's that happen from the boss. Even if you're a ranged attacker. While I agree Stam is getting shafted, the "high risk high reward" gameplay doesn't exist in high-level gameplay since... You always have your face glued to the back of the boss' head.
Yes stam should be buffed so there isn't just 1 viable playstyle while magicka has like 10 or 20. But stam users don't risk anything more than a magicka user does.2 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
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For a fact, Relequen jewelry and staff are better than 99% of the sets without wearing a single stamina item.
What are you even saying, I am a true meele and if I don't stick to the target, I cant even weave it in order to stack relequen, how ignorant ...
Parse have nothing to do with it, I also hit those numbers.
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Almost 95% of the hard content in this game in DLC HM Veteran Dungeons and about 80% of Trials is simply NOT melee friendly in any way, shape or form.
The fact I have to move and dance around stuff while a range guy just find a goochie spot and hardly move compare to me should already be a red alarm.
There are simply NOT any "Easy Mode" stamina builds, all are highest skill cap.
I don't want you to make it easier on mechanics, I just want people to justify taking a melee guy that have higher chance to "***".
Keep buffing Magicka and nerfing Stamina every patch only make above argument even stronger as stamina become an even worse choice as time pass.
This is good points.
I talked many times with my fiance about it.
I see the major problem as dungeon/trial AOE placement. They are very biased towards ranged.
Instead of the AOEs being around the boss or near the boss they should spawn under the player. That would force everyone to move, not just the melee players from the boss.
When I started playing Stam last year I even made a thread about it how Stamina is hard mode compared to mag.
I think you really need a lot more situational awareness and faster reaction time to play a melee character.
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Toanis✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Because now why would anyone use a melee weapon when there are four ranged weapon options that all benefit from the same stats? Being in melee range should have a higher risk/reward stat than using a flame staff from the doorway
Doesn't everyone stand in melee range anyway, because that is where the stuff is being thrown around between healer and tank? What's the point of comparing trial dummy numbers, when you avoid the buffs in actual gameplay?
Even in MMOs where healers only heal, tanks only tank, and everybody is responsible for their own buffs, the ranged dps don't stand whereever they like, but next to the healer, so one AOE heal will catch them all.
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Andre_Noir✭✭✭✭In almost every content stamina FAR superior magicka. And DLC HM's with trials are not "usual" content furthermore: 90%+ of playerbase don't care about it. Yet for everything else smashing shalks/stinkbones + dizzy/executioner brings almost to unreachable top
Forgot: the most braindead magicka class that was a top dd over last few years is literally MELEE one-button gimmickEdited by Andre_Noir on October 8, 2021 7:48AM1