Cyrodiil should change for new proc sets.

NoodleESO

I hate to play devil's advocate cause at this point ppl prolly think im trolling, ask yourself what makes dying in eso so unfun. IC is obvious, BGs kills/deaths are counted, Cyrodiil if you don't get a Res or forward camp you have to play horse simulator to a keep that may or may not be taken. Deaths in Cyro are very punishing, even when theres nothing to lose and theres no score at the end of a castle siege.

New proc sets are bringing action to the game, can you imagine if a keep battle was 12v12 and everyone was wearing only Hundings Rage? it would be very boring. The Problem is TTK is very fast and with no nearby quick respawn, players are going to get angry. A quick fix would be adding Keep respawns on resources, players can get back in the fight faster and it would spread the fight out, since the enemy would have to take all the resources to stop reinforcements.

Dying to newbies wearing a mindless one click set can be frustrating, but dying to 12 mindless one click unstoppable purge bots is equal and there should be something to even the odds.

In other words, Cyrodiil should be more objective based with high action and little skill, Zos should also take this opportunity to make BGs more competitive and more skill based.

DrSlaughtr

So you want to make unskilled players more effective for nothing, thereby also making skilled players better, while also eliminating camps.

NoodleESO

TheEndBringer wrote: »

So you want to make unskilled players more effective for nothing, thereby also making skilled players better, while also eliminating camps.

Dark convergence does not make skilled players better, and yes unskilled players should have a chance at being effective with little to no game time.

PvP games like battlefield and COD/fortnight are excellent models of why this is true. If I needed 50 days gametime to be effective in those games I wouldn't play them. Those games also offer hardcore servers that limit crutches if you wish to play like that.


Also I only suggested they added faction respawns at resources not get rid of forward camps.

fullheartcontainer

counterpoint: unskilled players do not deserve to win or get kills. They need to get skilled.

PvP is at its core like a sport. You can't go play football and then demand that your team be given special rules or equipment to compete with better teams. You need to actually practice. If you don't put in the time and effort, you deserve absolutely nothing.

neferpitou73

NoodleESO wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

So you want to make unskilled players more effective for nothing, thereby also making skilled players better, while also eliminating camps.

Dark convergence does not make skilled players better, and yes unskilled players should have a chance at being effective with little to no game time.

PvP games like battlefield and COD/fortnight are excellent models of why this is true. If I needed 50 days gametime to be effective in those games I wouldn't play them. Those games also offer hardcore servers that limit crutches if you wish to play like that.


Also I only suggested they added faction respawns at resources not get rid of forward camps.

Yeah, no sorry. I'm all for making pvp more accessible but adding mechanics that allow lower skilled players to consistently beat higher skill players is not only an insult to the those of us who have spent time getting better, but promotes toxic gameplay patterns like the DC fiasco we currently have. And I say this as a relatively mid-tear player who regularly gets my butt handed to me by people much better at the game than myself.

The reason most of us like Cyrodiil is that it's not like battlefield and COD. If you like those games go play them, but don't ruin this one.

DrSlaughtr

NoodleESO wrote: »

.
Also I only suggested they added faction respawns at resources not get rid of forward camps.

There will be no reason to put camps up.

EdmondDontes

NoodleESO wrote: »

I hate to play devil's advocate cause at this point ppl prolly think im trolling, ask yourself what makes dying in eso so unfun. IC is obvious, BGs kills/deaths are counted, Cyrodiil if you don't get a Res or forward camp you have to play horse simulator to a keep that may or may not be taken. Deaths in Cyro are very punishing, even when theres nothing to lose and theres no score at the end of a castle siege.

New proc sets are bringing action to the game, can you imagine if a keep battle was 12v12 and everyone was wearing only Hundings Rage? it would be very boring. The Problem is TTK is very fast and with no nearby quick respawn, players are going to get angry. A quick fix would be adding Keep respawns on resources, players can get back in the fight faster and it would spread the fight out, since the enemy would have to take all the resources to stop reinforcements.

Dying to newbies wearing a mindless one click set can be frustrating, but dying to 12 mindless one click unstoppable purge bots is equal and there should be something to even the odds.

In other words, Cyrodiil should be more objective based with high action and little skill, Zos should also take this opportunity to make BGs more competitive and more skill based.

There is supposed to be a skill gap between those who practice and those who don't. No armor set should ever overcome the skill gap between those that practice and those who don't.

biminirwb17_ESO

Getting killed in Cyrodiil is basically irrelevant, the first thing any player should learn is "where will I respawn if I die". No team mate to rez you, place a sneaky FC, close to a keep no problem, keep is likely to get flagged, place a camp inside. etc. etc. ...

We had a period when there were no forward camps, so we had death port resources where people would get killed by npcs to port across the map.

Originally there was no range on FC as well (then they were removed)

Riding to a keep takes 90 seconds at the most for the longest ride (if you cant then your mount is too slow)

Larcomar

fullheartcontainer wrote: »

counterpoint: unskilled players do not deserve to win or get kills. They need to get skilled.

PvP is at its core like a sport. You can't go play football and then demand that your team be given special rules or equipment to compete with better teams. You need to actually practice. If you don't put in the time and effort, you deserve absolutely nothing.

Oh please. ESO PvP's not a sport. It's a game of chance. The biggest factors are ping, lag and a variety of other entirely random events. It's fun but don't lets delude ourself that skill is, or ever has been, that big a factor.

But let's take your analogy. Say it were a sport like football, as you suggest. Does a professional team like Manchester United head down to the local park, farm goals against the random guys kicking a footie around for fun, and then post a youtube video bragging about uber they are? No. We have leagues.

Personally, I don't like the new sets much. And I don't think they're working. I'd much rather see zos introduce a league system, ban ball groups from regular campaigns and introduce a special campaigns where they get to play each other. But, oh, ball groups don't want to play each other, do they. So in the absence of that, we do need more changes to "even the odds" os Op says. So that 12 guys spamming three abilities can't basically take over the local park on a sunday afternoon and ruin the fun for everyone else.

EdmondDontes

Larcomar wrote: »

fullheartcontainer wrote: »

counterpoint: unskilled players do not deserve to win or get kills. They need to get skilled.

PvP is at its core like a sport. You can't go play football and then demand that your team be given special rules or equipment to compete with better teams. You need to actually practice. If you don't put in the time and effort, you deserve absolutely nothing.

Oh please. ESO PvP's not a sport. It's a game of chance. The biggest factors are ping, lag and a variety of other entirely random events. It's fun but don't lets delude ourself that skill is, or ever has been, that big a factor.

But let's take your analogy. Say it were a sport like football, as you suggest. Does a professional team like Manchester United head down to the local park, farm goals against the random guys kicking a footie around for fun, and then post a youtube video bragging about uber they are? No. We have leagues.

Personally, I don't like the new sets much. And I don't think they're working. I'd much rather see zos introduce a league system, ban ball groups from regular campaigns and introduce a special campaigns where they get to play each other. But, oh, ball groups don't want to play each other, do they. So in the absence of that, we do need more changes to "even the odds" os Op says. So that 12 guys spamming three abilities can't basically take over the local park on a sunday afternoon and ruin the fun for everyone else.

If the lag and bugs weren't effecting the highly skilled players we wouldn't know about the majority of the problems. It's the high APM players that get shafted by performance issues, not the newbies. Skill and practice absolutely are a factor in ESO, and that's why the high APM players like it so much when it works.