Nightblade Squish

BlackCatOnline-

Greetings,

Upfront I'm going to state that I recognize Nightblade is designed for a hit and run playstyle, with high single target damage potential, arguably the best defensive and kiting skills in-game overall. Still, I wonder if the class is too squishy. In my personal experience, unless I'm straight ganking out of cloak my health will be shredded by any ranged fighter before I can even gap close. Against melee brawlers despite being equipped with all damage sets, it can feel like trying to cut a brick wall with a dull knife, depending on sets of choice, overall stats, different variables. In the face of a high-heal capable class (Templar, DragonKnight, Warden....) if one cannot tear through 30K+ health in an instant the opponent(s) will recover rapidly and essentially be unkillable, causing one's time to kill window to close, exhaust resources, so flight or die become the only options. Although this issue is perhaps a personal failure to stack damage. Either way, the main point of this post is to question the survivability of Nightblade and how unforgiving a class that can turn invisible or teleport out actually is. Stamina Nightblade in particular since it doesn't have the freedom to cloak spam as its magicka counterpart can. Nor does the class possess healing abilities on the same level as pretty much any other class. Of course Magicka Nightblade is a different matter. And lately without Gaze of Sithis a Nightblade, or at least mine, will drop dead at the touch of a feather.

Regardless of how shiny new, like fresh out of the box toy new to Stamblade I may be, or however incompetent, the question remains: Is Nightblade too squish? Does it deserve better resource returns on Siphoning Strikes? Is it fair that classes like DragonKnight get so much healing power and resource return (upcoming anyway) and Nightblade can't at least unless it's a magicka base? Of course one could argue about hybrid changes... Does every class skill cost depend on max resource though?


P.S. Nightblade burst is too predictable. Please fix

Artim_X

My suggestion is looking up some nightblade builds online and picking one that suits your playstyle (well-rounded, glass cannon, bomber, tanky, etc.)

If you want to have the power to escape easily, make sure your speed is up to snuff. If not other players that use revealing abilities will ruin your day. Mastering the shadow teleport pet will significantly increase your survivability.

Larcomar

You can't really expect go toe to toe with a stamden, stamcro or even dk given all the mitigation and healing they have. But you are / shd be very good at running away when you find that out. I'd run wild hunt and maybe celerity, with something like jewels of misrule (mag and stam regen) to ensure you have the magika to cloak a minimum of 4-5 times in a row.

BlackCatOnline-

Larcomar wrote: »

You can't really expect go toe to toe with a stamden, stamcro or even dk given all the mitigation and healing they have. But you are / shd be very good at running away when you find that out. I'd run wild hunt and maybe celerity, with something like jewels of misrule (mag and stam regen) to ensure you have the magika to cloak a minimum of 4-5 times in a row.

Yeah that's kinda my point. Why not? If a build requires a specified class or item to perform as well as others isn't that an indication of a problem? Yet there's also class identity and playstyle to consider. Presuming one has up to six seconds to take down his or her opponent or flee, and you're wearing armor no better than paper mache, its rough fighting anyone tanky especially when they can recover full health in seconds while still bursting chunks of your health. That said, I guess I can try out jewels of misrule and the other suggestions, thank you for that

Ippokrates

Nobody is forcing you to make squishy NB. Invest in HP, get blur and some shield, healing cloak & vigor, have great GC & spammable, also, keep teleport in reserve... There is many ways to play NB, but if you want to be ganker, accept to be squishy.

Greek_Hellspawn

Yes they are squish BUT cloak this patch feels like a cheat, at least for me when i cloak it's really harder to break than last patch.

Same thing when i fight against a nb, i can't reveal them as easy as before waking flame.

Larcomar

I get what you mean, but it's kind of rock paper scissors. As others have said, cloalk is a pretty awesome ability now. And NBs farm other squishies pretty much better than anyone.

MentalxHammer

I currently have a little over 5k hours on my non-cloak, brawler NB. I must respectfully disagree with your post. I agree that if NB is played traditionally, it is obviously very squishy; with that being said, NB actually has the tools to become extremely tanky with little sacrifice to other aspects of your build.

Consider the strongest two defensive skills of the NB, mirage and dark cloak. After the buff to minor resolve mirage offers 3k resistances with 20% aoe mitigation, as someone who considers major evasion a mandatory buff, the extra 3k resistances is basically a free bonus. If you rotate your dark cloak appropriately you always have a strong HoT up, and minor protection always up on your front bar increasing your mitigation. Using the standard rally/vigor setup we have access to two strong HoT’s and a burst heal, which is enough HoT to offer significant offensive windows while taking little to no damage. Using just a few pieces of protective jewelry and a defensive back bar trait it is very easy to reach the 33k resistance cap with negligible reduction to your damage. This combined with the strong HoT offered by brawler NB makes them one of the tangier classes when played properly.

Regarding your comment on the predictability of NB burst, I hate to keep playing devils advocate, but I really think there’s strong argument why NB burst is some of the least predictable. Let’s look at the burst from every class.

DK - you can literally see the dots that are on you through negative effects and they do not have burst, they have pressure which can be easily gauged and healed around.
Sorc - Haunting curse is highly telegraphed, dizzy/crystal weap stam sorcs are equally easy to avoid burst with block.
Templar - backlash is actually massive and if you can’t see it about to explode you should get your eyes checked.
Necro - blastbones is highly telegraphed and can be easily avoided through block.
Warden - scorch is highly telegraphed and can be easily avoided with block or dodge, an experienced player can simple take your back side and avoid its damage.
Nightblade - no telegraph, no delay after casting (just a couple ms travel time) the burst comes out exactly when the NB decides it will, yes if you cast it every 5 cooldowns it becomes relatively predictable, but this is on the fault of the user. If you drop your spectral bows when you know your target isn’t ready for them they are highly unpredictable. No other class can hit one skill and have their main burst land all of its damage instantly. Heck if you animation cancel the bow after an incap stun you can even guarantee it’s hit!

TheS1X

As a nightblade player I can tell that they are indeed very squishy and easy to kill. What happens on BGs or even on Cyro is that NBs fight or hunt other NBs because that other NB is easier to kill than Sorcs with their shields or other tanky classes with massive hp pool.
I very rarely can kill tank or a sorc and if I can do it then it is always when they are not ready for it.
That means if they are ready for me, I 90% of time lose.
People who say that NB should go for a tanky build, nah, tried that and it was horrible experiance.
I did 0 damage, survived little bit more and the class was not a NB anymore, it was something else.
NB is playable on no proc and no CP Cyrodiil tho, it feels more balanced there.
I still think how weird it is how developers nerfed NBs and Bows but let Sorcs teleport and fly around with those unbreakable shields and same time doing crazy damage + I am not even going to start with those pets, geez!
Same with templar and those Jabs, NB needs to be stronger to atleast survive 3 seconds those things.
Anyways yes, NB feels squishy and should hide and escape and wait for a right moment to strike.
Do not blame NBs if they can not run first into melee fights with you on BGs or can not help you out.
NBs are just squishy and sneaking around is the way!

Olen_Mikko

If you play as a ganker, you kind of have to accept that you have to fight dirty and from the shadows. Never on open ground.

I made a ganker build that is pretty agile and can keep a pressure up for some time, to be able to take out some of the unaware tankier chars too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwjieJ44REo

milllaurie

Yesterday I refreshed my brawler nb with a new build.
I did some duels with my guildies and, well, my nb is OP.
Ravager maul frontbar.
Clever alchemist sword and shield backbar.
Balorgh monster set.
Torc+1trainee. Orzorgas food. 64 into stam. Khajiit.
Backbar skills: leeching strikes, phantasmal escape, dark cloak, vigor, shade, spell wall.
Frontbar skills: rally, camo hunter, merciless, executioneer, surprise attack, incap.
Surprise attacks proc ravager, you proc alchemist on backbar.
In a duel I can get up to 8.2k weapon damage with 500 balorgh stacks.
I would shoot 15k spectral bows in bgs and 10k ones in a duel against an optimised stamcro.
Since khajiit, nb and merciless, the crit modifier sits at 92% without speccing anything. Got a 14400 rally yesterday, yay.
This way you keep your high damage as nb but can brawl like a dk or stamcro. Just keep your dark cloak up at all times .
You can also go vamp because the sustain is superior. 3.2k stam regen fully buffed and 1.7k mag regen fully buffed (torc). Undeath would make you even more unkillable.
Build link:
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=388260

moleculardrugs

BlackCatOnline- wrote: »

Greetings,

Upfront I'm going to state that I recognize Nightblade is designed for a hit and run playstyle, with high single target damage potential, arguably the best defensive and kiting skills in-game overall. Still, I wonder if the class is too squishy. In my personal experience, unless I'm straight ganking out of cloak my health will be shredded by any ranged fighter before I can even gap close. Against melee brawlers despite being equipped with all damage sets, it can feel like trying to cut a brick wall with a dull knife, depending on sets of choice, overall stats, different variables. In the face of a high-heal capable class (Templar, DragonKnight, Warden....) if one cannot tear through 30K+ health in an instant the opponent(s) will recover rapidly and essentially be unkillable, causing one's time to kill window to close, exhaust resources, so flight or die become the only options. Although this issue is perhaps a personal failure to stack damage. Either way, the main point of this post is to question the survivability of Nightblade and how unforgiving a class that can turn invisible or teleport out actually is. Stamina Nightblade in particular since it doesn't have the freedom to cloak spam as its magicka counterpart can. Nor does the class possess healing abilities on the same level as pretty much any other class. Of course Magicka Nightblade is a different matter. And lately without Gaze of Sithis a Nightblade, or at least mine, will drop dead at the touch of a feather.

Regardless of how shiny new, like fresh out of the box toy new to Stamblade I may be, or however incompetent, the question remains: Is Nightblade too squish? Does it deserve better resource returns on Siphoning Strikes? Is it fair that classes like DragonKnight get so much healing power and resource return (upcoming anyway) and Nightblade can't at least unless it's a magicka base? Of course one could argue about hybrid changes... Does every class skill cost depend on max resource though?


P.S. Nightblade burst is too predictable. Please fix

I’m one of those Nightblades (high elf magblade) that barely go invisible. I morphed to the other one where you heal like 2600 every second for 8 seconds or something like that. I enjoy tanking normal dungeons with it and have heard that a lot of people tank vet dungeons as a NB too. So survivability is possible.

I feel like (and I’m so bad with names guys I’m sorry), the red ball shield that NBs can opt for with the morph should also have major resolve along with minor resolve.

Edit: you’re going to get a lot of backlash from people because they consider NB as OP and harder to master than the other classes. That the NB is for more experienced players and shouldn’t be the first toon someone makes. Although true, I feel like there should be more options for NBs to move away of stealth fighting and instead be able to take on the more physical classes. I’m not saying make NB an overpowered melee stealth killer like the xenomorph from predator, but It would be nice if we could use the “shadows” as physical and upfront as a templar uses the light.

moleculardrugs

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

If you play as a ganker, you kind of have to accept that you have to fight dirty and from the shadows. Never on open ground.

I made a ganker build that is pretty agile and can keep a pressure up for some time, to be able to take out some of the unaware tankier chars too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwjieJ44REo

Fought a ganker in cyrodiil. He wore Cowards Gwar and relied more on speed and stealth while fighting on open ground. It was pretty impressive. He didn’t hide behind rocks or trees or walls like what other people do in pvp too. He took hits and healed quickly and was able to fend off 3 other peeps

mague

BlackCatOnline- wrote: »

Greetings,

Upfront I'm going to state that I recognize Nightblade is designed for a hit and run playstyle, with high single target damage potential, arguably the best defensive and kiting skills in-game overall.

Thats it basically To make this scale in PvP would be to give the NB one-shot capability. It is obvious that this cant happen.

Maybe disguise needs a little heal on it...

Olen_Mikko

moleculardrugs wrote: »

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

If you play as a ganker, you kind of have to accept that you have to fight dirty and from the shadows. Never on open ground.

I made a ganker build that is pretty agile and can keep a pressure up for some time, to be able to take out some of the unaware tankier chars too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwjieJ44REo

Fought a ganker in cyrodiil. He wore Cowards Gwar and relied more on speed and stealth while fighting on open ground. It was pretty impressive. He didn’t hide behind rocks or trees or walls like what other people do in pvp too. He took hits and healed quickly and was able to fend off 3 other peeps

I'd day that kind of playstyle, while being really effective, is more 1vX kiting and bursting, rather than ganking. But that's semantic if it gets the Job done.

They usually lack the overwhelming burst, but can keep pressure on and land bunch of strikes in a shirt time

BlackCatOnline-

mague wrote: »

BlackCatOnline- wrote: »

Greetings,

Upfront I'm going to state that I recognize Nightblade is designed for a hit and run playstyle, with high single target damage potential, arguably the best defensive and kiting skills in-game overall.

Thats it basically To make this scale in PvP would be to give the NB one-shot capability. It is obvious that this cant happen.

Maybe disguise needs a little heal on it...

More heals would be nice

BlackCatOnline-

moleculardrugs wrote: »

BlackCatOnline- wrote: »

Greetings,

Upfront I'm going to state that I recognize Nightblade is designed for a hit and run playstyle, with high single target damage potential, arguably the best defensive and kiting skills in-game overall. Still, I wonder if the class is too squishy. In my personal experience, unless I'm straight ganking out of cloak my health will be shredded by any ranged fighter before I can even gap close. Against melee brawlers despite being equipped with all damage sets, it can feel like trying to cut a brick wall with a dull knife, depending on sets of choice, overall stats, different variables. In the face of a high-heal capable class (Templar, DragonKnight, Warden....) if one cannot tear through 30K+ health in an instant the opponent(s) will recover rapidly and essentially be unkillable, causing one's time to kill window to close, exhaust resources, so flight or die become the only options. Although this issue is perhaps a personal failure to stack damage. Either way, the main point of this post is to question the survivability of Nightblade and how unforgiving a class that can turn invisible or teleport out actually is. Stamina Nightblade in particular since it doesn't have the freedom to cloak spam as its magicka counterpart can. Nor does the class possess healing abilities on the same level as pretty much any other class. Of course Magicka Nightblade is a different matter. And lately without Gaze of Sithis a Nightblade, or at least mine, will drop dead at the touch of a feather.

Regardless of how shiny new, like fresh out of the box toy new to Stamblade I may be, or however incompetent, the question remains: Is Nightblade too squish? Does it deserve better resource returns on Siphoning Strikes? Is it fair that classes like DragonKnight get so much healing power and resource return (upcoming anyway) and Nightblade can't at least unless it's a magicka base? Of course one could argue about hybrid changes... Does every class skill cost depend on max resource though?


P.S. Nightblade burst is too predictable. Please fix

I’m one of those Nightblades (high elf magblade) that barely go invisible. I morphed to the other one where you heal like 2600 every second for 8 seconds or something like that. I enjoy tanking normal dungeons with it and have heard that a lot of people tank vet dungeons as a NB too. So survivability is possible.

I feel like (and I’m so bad with names guys I’m sorry), the red ball shield that NBs can opt for with the morph should also have major resolve along with minor resolve.

Edit: you’re going to get a lot of backlash from people because they consider NB as OP and harder to master than the other classes. That the NB is for more experienced players and shouldn’t be the first toon someone makes. Although true, I feel like there should be more options for NBs to move away of stealth fighting and instead be able to take on the more physical classes. I’m not saying make NB an overpowered melee stealth killer like the xenomorph from predator, but It would be nice if we could use the “shadows” as physical and upfront as a templar uses the light.

Apparently, they're adjusting the dark cloak skill a bit. More heals in fewer ticks

You mean Mirage/ Phantasmal...? Yeah but Nightblade get major resolve from attacking doesn't it?

etchedpixels

BlackCatOnline- wrote: »

Greetings,

Upfront I'm going to state that I recognize Nightblade is designed for a hit and run playstyle, with high single target damage potential, arguably the best defensive and kiting skills in-game overall. Still, I wonder if the class is too squishy.

The class no - the way people usually build nightblades based on PvP gankbuilds - yes.

You can nightblade tank. Nightblade tanks are not squishy and some of their damage mitigations and defensive abilities lend themselves well to tanky roles.

LittlePinkDot

BlackCatOnline- wrote: »

Greetings,

Upfront I'm going to state that I recognize Nightblade is designed for a hit and run playstyle, with high single target damage potential, arguably the best defensive and kiting skills in-game overall. Still, I wonder if the class is too squishy. In my personal experience, unless I'm straight ganking out of cloak my health will be shredded by any ranged fighter before I can even gap close. Against melee brawlers despite being equipped with all damage sets, it can feel like trying to cut a brick wall with a dull knife, depending on sets of choice, overall stats, different variables. In the face of a high-heal capable class (Templar, DragonKnight, Warden....) if one cannot tear through 30K+ health in an instant the opponent(s) will recover rapidly and essentially be unkillable, causing one's time to kill window to close, exhaust resources, so flight or die become the only options. Although this issue is perhaps a personal failure to stack damage. Either way, the main point of this post is to question the survivability of Nightblade and how unforgiving a class that can turn invisible or teleport out actually is. Stamina Nightblade in particular since it doesn't have the freedom to cloak spam as its magicka counterpart can. Nor does the class possess healing abilities on the same level as pretty much any other class. Of course Magicka Nightblade is a different matter. And lately without Gaze of Sithis a Nightblade, or at least mine, will drop dead at the touch of a feather.

Regardless of how shiny new, like fresh out of the box toy new to Stamblade I may be, or however incompetent, the question remains: Is Nightblade too squish? Does it deserve better resource returns on Siphoning Strikes? Is it fair that classes like DragonKnight get so much healing power and resource return (upcoming anyway) and Nightblade can't at least unless it's a magicka base? Of course one could argue about hybrid changes... Does every class skill cost depend on max resource though?


P.S. Nightblade burst is too predictable. Please fix

Stamblade has access to vigor for healing.
I can cloke enough times on a Stamblade to get away, the key is to go into sneak when you can.
Also the ultimate temporal guard can help you get away.
Invisibility and sneak work so well I use an invisibility potion on my other classes + that sneak radius CP perk. I love my sneaky ranged stam necro kitty cat.

LittlePinkDot

milllaurie wrote: »

Yesterday I refreshed my brawler nb with a new build.
I did some duels with my guildies and, well, my nb is OP.
Ravager maul frontbar.
Clever alchemist sword and shield backbar.
Balorgh monster set.
Torc+1trainee. Orzorgas food. 64 into stam. Khajiit.
Backbar skills: leeching strikes, phantasmal escape, dark cloak, vigor, shade, spell wall.
Frontbar skills: rally, camo hunter, merciless, executioneer, surprise attack, incap.
Surprise attacks proc ravager, you proc alchemist on backbar.
In a duel I can get up to 8.2k weapon damage with 500 balorgh stacks.
I would shoot 15k spectral bows in bgs and 10k ones in a duel against an optimised stamcro.
Since khajiit, nb and merciless, the crit modifier sits at 92% without speccing anything. Got a 14400 rally yesterday, yay.
This way you keep your high damage as nb but can brawl like a dk or stamcro. Just keep your dark cloak up at all times .
You can also go vamp because the sustain is superior. 3.2k stam regen fully buffed and 1.7k mag regen fully buffed (torc). Undeath would make you even more unkillable.
Build link:
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=388260

I guess your skills actually fire when you hit the buttons lol

SoulwayFilth

I BG tank/heal as mag nb solo.

Breton
64 points health
Stage 3 Vamp
Atro Mundus
Impreg, Crafty & Malubeth
Inferno Front
Resto back
Tri pot
Tri stat food
1 heavy, 4 med, 2 light
Well fitted
2 x Spell Damage Enchant
1 x Reduced Cost Enchant
Mag Enchant Armor

Flare - Fear - Merc Resolve - Dark Cloak - Swallow - Incap/Soul Tether

Flare - Mirage (Immov morph) - Siphoning - Rapid Regen - Degen (Major Sorc Morph) - Soul Tether

Made it just to survive recent new procs. Might be looking to transition more to a healer. But its a decent tank that can survive & cc people off low allies ect while putting in suprise burst when not expected.

Fear pretty much matches cc timer, looking to replace with vamp skill when levelled. Can roll dodge out of trouble easy with well fitted + medium. Minor + Major protection + Major evasion + Impreg & HOTs are strong, especially with a Malubeth proc at 36k hp no cp. You are real high on mitigation, have high hp & great HOT. Cant wait for dark cloak change next patch, actually have a form of quicker heal. Now also the possibility of class burst heal next patch.

Really is a crutch, have screwed up stam resource a fair bit pushing the roll dodges. Just to heal through damage as undeath + malubeth + HOTs still going while cc. Then I come out, fear & reset fight.

Being so tanky, can just wait & ult + bow can kill some.

Tbh, anyone decent at 1v1 you are not going to get the kill, but then again, neither will they unless you bugger up.

Ezorus

I don't mind being squishy and getting blown up as long as I can do the dame back.. but when there's rediculous impen, shields, health pools and self healing they just shrug it off and leap or jabs to death

BlackCatOnline-

Ezorus wrote: »

I don't mind being squishy and getting blown up as long as I can do the dame back.. but when there's rediculous impen, shields, health pools and self healing they just shrug it off and leap or jabs to death

Exactly

That's so frustrating...

Syrpynt

BlackCatOnline- wrote: »

Greetings,

Upfront I'm going to state that I recognize Nightblade is designed for a hit and run playstyle, with high single target damage potential, arguably the best defensive and kiting skills in-game overall. Still, I wonder if the class is too squishy. In my personal experience, unless I'm straight ganking out of cloak my health will be shredded by any ranged fighter before I can even gap close. Against melee brawlers despite being equipped with all damage sets, it can feel like trying to cut a brick wall with a dull knife, depending on sets of choice, overall stats, different variables. In the face of a high-heal capable class (Templar, DragonKnight, Warden....) if one cannot tear through 30K+ health in an instant the opponent(s) will recover rapidly and essentially be unkillable, causing one's time to kill window to close, exhaust resources, so flight or die become the only options. Although this issue is perhaps a personal failure to stack damage. Either way, the main point of this post is to question the survivability of Nightblade and how unforgiving a class that can turn invisible or teleport out actually is. Stamina Nightblade in particular since it doesn't have the freedom to cloak spam as its magicka counterpart can. Nor does the class possess healing abilities on the same level as pretty much any other class. Of course Magicka Nightblade is a different matter. And lately without Gaze of Sithis a Nightblade, or at least mine, will drop dead at the touch of a feather.

Regardless of how shiny new, like fresh out of the box toy new to Stamblade I may be, or however incompetent, the question remains: Is Nightblade too squish? Does it deserve better resource returns on Siphoning Strikes? Is it fair that classes like DragonKnight get so much healing power and resource return (upcoming anyway) and Nightblade can't at least unless it's a magicka base? Of course one could argue about hybrid changes... Does every class skill cost depend on max resource though?


P.S. Nightblade burst is too predictable. Please fix

LOL no. I have a nighblade and enjoy how it is now, it is balanced. I know because I only get killed in cyrodiil (CP, standard) 1 of 2 ways:

1.) The player is using Dark Conv.
2.) There are 2 Nightblades ganking me at once. One uses stun with Concealed Strike and the other uses the finisher. I am wearing all medium on my favorite PvP character that wrecks the most (like you said, all damage based sets), but I also die really easily because I have 1 healing ability (Vigor) and it's too slow to heal through 2+ players attacking without roll dodging--And after a few seconds of dodging I lose almost all of my stamina.

I'm not complaining about 2.) though. In fact, I think that it's pretty balanced because I can only find nightblades only 1/2 the time because most use a bow and just slowly grind my health down while I search and waste stamina throwing down caltrops everywhere or cleaving nothing in front of me (or behind me trying to predict the ambush).

My nightblade I play isn't set up for PvP rn, not since patch--been too preoccupied building my Black Knight, but I still like the gear he is wearing for single target: Noble Duelist Bow Backbar + Unweaver DW frontbar. After the hybrid updates, I will be switching to better gear for a Weapon+Magblade, but this same nightblade can hold ground in BG's despite being squish, might not be a top player, but that's because I suck and I use gamepad (so I lose out on overall speed because I lack digital strafing vs analog strafing).

gariondavey

milllaurie wrote: »

Yesterday I refreshed my brawler nb with a new build.
I did some duels with my guildies and, well, my nb is OP.
Ravager maul frontbar.
Clever alchemist sword and shield backbar.
Balorgh monster set.
Torc+1trainee. Orzorgas food. 64 into stam. Khajiit.
Backbar skills: leeching strikes, phantasmal escape, dark cloak, vigor, shade, spell wall.
Frontbar skills: rally, camo hunter, merciless, executioneer, surprise attack, incap.
Surprise attacks proc ravager, you proc alchemist on backbar.
In a duel I can get up to 8.2k weapon damage with 500 balorgh stacks.
I would shoot 15k spectral bows in bgs and 10k ones in a duel against an optimised stamcro.
Since khajiit, nb and merciless, the crit modifier sits at 92% without speccing anything. Got a 14400 rally yesterday, yay.
This way you keep your high damage as nb but can brawl like a dk or stamcro. Just keep your dark cloak up at all times .
You can also go vamp because the sustain is superior. 3.2k stam regen fully buffed and 1.7k mag regen fully buffed (torc). Undeath would make you even more unkillable.
Build link:
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=388260

@milllaurie what is the purpose of phantasmal escape over elude? Please @me if you reply

milllaurie

gariondavey wrote: »

milllaurie wrote: »

Yesterday I refreshed my brawler nb with a new build.
I did some duels with my guildies and, well, my nb is OP.
Ravager maul frontbar.
Clever alchemist sword and shield backbar.
Balorgh monster set.
Torc+1trainee. Orzorgas food. 64 into stam. Khajiit.
Backbar skills: leeching strikes, phantasmal escape, dark cloak, vigor, shade, spell wall.
Frontbar skills: rally, camo hunter, merciless, executioneer, surprise attack, incap.
Surprise attacks proc ravager, you proc alchemist on backbar.
In a duel I can get up to 8.2k weapon damage with 500 balorgh stacks.
I would shoot 15k spectral bows in bgs and 10k ones in a duel against an optimised stamcro.
Since khajiit, nb and merciless, the crit modifier sits at 92% without speccing anything. Got a 14400 rally yesterday, yay.
This way you keep your high damage as nb but can brawl like a dk or stamcro. Just keep your dark cloak up at all times .
You can also go vamp because the sustain is superior. 3.2k stam regen fully buffed and 1.7k mag regen fully buffed (torc). Undeath would make you even more unkillable.
Build link:
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=388260

@milllaurie what is the purpose of phantasmal escape over elude? Please @me if you reply

@gariondavey snare and immobilize removal. Keeps you quick and nimble just like shuffle would but it costs magicka - helpful to get our mag pool down for the stam sustain because we are running torc.

TheS1X

Wel, Nightblades are squishy and someone who does not play with it a lot can not share valuable data from PVP perspective, why? You can have shity build and if you do not PVP on BGs you will be set up with unskilled players aka low ELO.
I have played with 2 NBs what are basically clones, sets are same, skills are same etc... One is my GFs NB, other is mine.
I played a lot with my NB till I got to high ELO and there you understand how NB sucks a lot, you can not do any damage and even if you do little bit damage it is out healed with blink of an eye. Someone here told that NB has best escape mechanics but I must disagree, it is Ok, but nothing like Sorcs have. They put their shield on and teleport away and same time stunning you, they just fly so fast that you can not catch them. Anyways, when I went in with my GFs Nightblade and she does not do that much PVP, so she was on low ELO and basically destroyed everyone and was almost always first with lots of kills. ( With few games I was back on high ELO where I was set up with unkillable enemies wich where all other classes. I can kill other Nightblades tho and they can kill me, so we are like cannibals and our class is made to feed from our own.
PS: I had mageblade too with who I stayed always on same ELO, it was not baddest but not highest, but it was rather because I am not good with mageblade but yes, mageblades escape mechanics is better than Sorcs and this is because perma cloak.
With stamina NB, you can put cloak only 4 or 5 times and most times it is not enough to get away.

SO, NB sucks and one reason for this is because it sacrifices lots of sustain for a damage and that damage is still not good if you compare it with SORC and Sorc can still keep high damage with high sustain.
So, my problem with NB is rather sustain than squishiness. I think NB should have higher damage than sorc and at least same sustain like Sorc has because Sorc has pets and shield and teleport etc...

And sorry because of my crappy English, it is not my native language.

finehair

Well it's more of a complex game of rock paper and scissors. You can cut through magicka builds like a hot knife through a butter. However brawler stam classes tend to have that sweet damage reductions, a lotta roll dodge and block capability because of high stam pool and over all more hp.
Those ranged magicka classes are hard to deal with on stam classes that don't have gap closers.
Like a 2h warrior waiting for a dragon to land in Skyrim, chasing a magsorc streaking around the place is a death sentence if you can't get your hands on them

gariondavey

milllaurie wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

milllaurie wrote: »

Yesterday I refreshed my brawler nb with a new build.
I did some duels with my guildies and, well, my nb is OP.
Ravager maul frontbar.
Clever alchemist sword and shield backbar.
Balorgh monster set.
Torc+1trainee. Orzorgas food. 64 into stam. Khajiit.
Backbar skills: leeching strikes, phantasmal escape, dark cloak, vigor, shade, spell wall.
Frontbar skills: rally, camo hunter, merciless, executioneer, surprise attack, incap.
Surprise attacks proc ravager, you proc alchemist on backbar.
In a duel I can get up to 8.2k weapon damage with 500 balorgh stacks.
I would shoot 15k spectral bows in bgs and 10k ones in a duel against an optimised stamcro.
Since khajiit, nb and merciless, the crit modifier sits at 92% without speccing anything. Got a 14400 rally yesterday, yay.
This way you keep your high damage as nb but can brawl like a dk or stamcro. Just keep your dark cloak up at all times .
You can also go vamp because the sustain is superior. 3.2k stam regen fully buffed and 1.7k mag regen fully buffed (torc). Undeath would make you even more unkillable.
Build link:
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=388260

@milllaurie what is the purpose of phantasmal escape over elude? Please @me if you reply

@gariondavey snare and immobilize removal. Keeps you quick and nimble just like shuffle would but it costs magicka - helpful to get our mag pool down for the stam sustain because we are running torc.

Ok thanks, figured it might have been mag dump. Also I meant shuffle but said elude XD. Thanks!

BlackCatOnline-

TheS1X wrote: »

Wel, Nightblades are squishy and someone who does not play with it a lot can not share valuable data from PVP perspective, why? You can have shity build and if you do not PVP on BGs you will be set up with unskilled players aka low ELO.
I have played with 2 NBs what are basically clones, sets are same, skills are same etc... One is my GFs NB, other is mine.
I played a lot with my NB till I got to high ELO and there you understand how NB sucks a lot, you can not do any damage and even if you do little bit damage it is out healed with blink of an eye. Someone here told that NB has best escape mechanics but I must disagree, it is Ok, but nothing like Sorcs have. They put their shield on and teleport away and same time stunning you, they just fly so fast that you can not catch them. Anyways, when I went in with my GFs Nightblade and she does not do that much PVP, so she was on low ELO and basically destroyed everyone and was almost always first with lots of kills. ( With few games I was back on high ELO where I was set up with unkillable enemies wich where all other classes. I can kill other Nightblades tho and they can kill me, so we are like cannibals and our class is made to feed from our own.
PS: I had mageblade too with who I stayed always on same ELO, it was not baddest but not highest, but it was rather because I am not good with mageblade but yes, mageblades escape mechanics is better than Sorcs and this is because perma cloak.
With stamina NB, you can put cloak only 4 or 5 times and most times it is not enough to get away.

SO, NB sucks and one reason for this is because it sacrifices lots of sustain for a damage and that damage is still not good if you compare it with SORC and Sorc can still keep high damage with high sustain.
So, my problem with NB is rather sustain than squishiness. I think NB should have higher damage than sorc and at least same sustain like Sorc has because Sorc has pets and shield and teleport etc...

And sorry because of my crappy English, it is not my native language.

Yeah... That's why people like wood elf for Stamina Nightblade. The movement speed, stamina recovery, and penetration passives help.

WraithShadow13

I love my night blade, as it's my main but i have him set up as a Vamp that does a lot of aoe and heals from the damage, and even then, it still leaves me feeling squishy af. I've managed to get the one Ring to heal them all, but even then, it can be difficult to keep in a fight when i'm drawing way more aggro than the tank and the healer is just a dps that couldn't get in fast enough.