Magcro just makes the game soo boring

Fawn4287

Magcro is the ultimate hit or miss class, some parches its absolutely garbage only rivalled in poor performance by magblade and sometimes magden. Other updates its completely game breaking and is just outright stupid how easily it can solo wipe groups whilst being incredibly hard to kill and of course this update its the latter and the game is teeming with them. Necro as a whole is outright too tanky but magcro is just on another level, mistform on a magcro gives the class unrivalled levels of easy tankyness without heavily investing in to it. The real problem though is how it can stack damage, even before cheesy garbage like dark convergence carrying, VD was more than sufficient to give it group killing power. The real main issue is avid boneyard, harmony has been picked out and nerfed as though it was a problem but no other builds other ultra specific nova synergy synergy builds has this been in any way an issue with (and that requires 2 people working in tandem to pull it off using an expensive ultimate). A self synergy skill that can be buffed to hit insane numbers that it heals for damage done off the back of nothing more than a few jewellery traits has just been such a cheesy overpowered crutch for far too long.

This synergy needs to be removed without question and magcro needs some decent sustainable damage like a useful DOT or its spammable changed so that its worth slotting and the class can be something more balanced than the 3 button group exploding mist tank it currently is. However necro without the cheese is an incredibly unpopular class and the meta hopping players that made the same ‘necro needs boneyard to be viable’ argument when harmony was originally nerfed were wrong then as they’re still wrong now, making a cheesy skill combined with a cheesy trait combo isn’t balanced. These are probably the same players that didn’t touch magcro till CP 2.0 and consider themselves as ‘elite 1vX’ players whilst crutching on a jewellery trait and a terribly designed proc set to bomb on a class they couldn’t get a kill on without the cheese.

katorga

One trick pony.

Major evasion.

moo_2021

Please don't! Why make every class so balanced and uniformed there is hardly any difference? It's already a problem with stamina builds.

synergy feels both awkward and fun to play

ResidentContrarian

If the class gets any buffs, then like warden and NB, it needs nerfs somewhere in exchange.

Magcro is ridiculously tanky and heals a lot, I see zero reason to add damage on top of that. Definitely don't see nerfing one skill being enough to justify buffing the damage up.

Maybe players should stop trying to be ultra-tank gods and do damage, and instead start focusing on one or the other? From what I have seen on the class, the class damage is only bad if you focus solely on defense...on a class with built-in defense...

Mesite

If you're going to have this class nerfed I guess I'll have to play as much as I can in the next month or so. I always seem to just find good skills in the game the week before someone calls to get them nerfed.

katorga

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

If the class gets any buffs, then like warden and NB, it needs nerfs somewhere in exchange.

Magcro is ridiculously tanky and heals a lot, I see zero reason to add damage on top of that. Definitely don't see nerfing one skill being enough to justify buffing the damage up.

Maybe players should stop trying to be ultra-tank gods and do damage, and instead start focusing on one or the other? From what I have seen on the class, the class damage is only bad if you focus solely on defense...on a class with built-in defense...

I play magcro and it is a garbage class carried by DC right now. Next patch it will be carried by bash builds. '

No mobility, no useful CC, no execute, and its vaunted "tankiness" from spirit guardian is watered down to nothing in CP because of diminishing returns from the sheer number of % damage mitigation CP and passives in the game right now. The class is dependent on harmony, and to a great extent Dark Convergence. Pre-dark convergence, most magcros ran Dawnbreaker, because you just can't hit anyone with Colossus reliably. Assume every single stamina player is reducing 20% of your damage off the top.

It is an excellent class for playing IN a group/Zerg, or BGs as a support/healer role.

Compare to my sorc, I can run the cheapest, most basic stat sets and be 100% effective. Granted it is mostly single target, kill one person at a time, fighting, but the class has a full kit, and can be competitive running alfiq/ancient grace and zero procs. I can play a 5 year old build on my mag sorc and be perfectly fine.

Fawn4287

katorga wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

If the class gets any buffs, then like warden and NB, it needs nerfs somewhere in exchange.

Magcro is ridiculously tanky and heals a lot, I see zero reason to add damage on top of that. Definitely don't see nerfing one skill being enough to justify buffing the damage up.

Maybe players should stop trying to be ultra-tank gods and do damage, and instead start focusing on one or the other? From what I have seen on the class, the class damage is only bad if you focus solely on defense...on a class with built-in defense...

I play magcro and it is a garbage class carried by DC right now. Next patch it will be carried by bash builds. '

No mobility, no useful CC, no execute, and its vaunted "tankiness" from spirit guardian is watered down to nothing in CP because of diminishing returns from the sheer number of % damage mitigation CP and passives in the game right now. The class is dependent on harmony, and to a great extent Dark Convergence. Pre-dark convergence, most magcros ran Dawnbreaker, because you just can't hit anyone with Colossus reliably. Assume every single stamina player is reducing 20% of your damage off the top.

It is an excellent class for playing IN a group/Zerg, or BGs as a support/healer role.

Compare to my sorc, I can run the cheapest, most basic stat sets and be 100% effective. Granted it is mostly single target, kill one person at a time, fighting, but the class has a full kit, and can be competitive running alfiq/ancient grace and zero procs. I can play a 5 year old build on my mag sorc and be perfectly fine.

Theres a major difference in the skill required to play a magsorc vs a magcro and an even bigger gap in trying to 1vX, especially this update.

PancakeHead

The game is boring for everyone unless you're a dragonknight.

VarisVaris

katorga wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

If the class gets any buffs, then like warden and NB, it needs nerfs somewhere in exchange.

Magcro is ridiculously tanky and heals a lot, I see zero reason to add damage on top of that. Definitely don't see nerfing one skill being enough to justify buffing the damage up.

Maybe players should stop trying to be ultra-tank gods and do damage, and instead start focusing on one or the other? From what I have seen on the class, the class damage is only bad if you focus solely on defense...on a class with built-in defense...

I play magcro and it is a garbage class carried by DC right now. Next patch it will be carried by bash builds. '

No mobility, no useful CC, no execute, and its vaunted "tankiness" from spirit guardian is watered down to nothing in CP because of diminishing returns from the sheer number of % damage mitigation CP and passives in the game right now. The class is dependent on harmony, and to a great extent Dark Convergence. Pre-dark convergence, most magcros ran Dawnbreaker, because you just can't hit anyone with Colossus reliably. Assume every single stamina player is reducing 20% of your damage off the top.

That's a lot of wrong statements in this short paragraph.

Mobility on magnecro with RaT is more than fine and there's no reason to ever complain about it.

Magnecro has access to DBoS which gives you an offensive CC on your burst and if you really need a CC you can easily use flame clench.

An execute on magnecro isn't needed at all and hasn't been needed since CP2.0 has reduced tankiness for any non necros and when everyone received 1k free spelldamage.
Additionally blastbones have such a high damage output that asking for an execute on Necromancer comes down to lack of experience or player skill.

Just as the next point, running spirit guardian on magnecro is actively choosing the worse option, intensive mender is so ridiculously overperforming when it comes to healing output that necro could easily survive with it alone, but on top of that you have a free heal in mortal coil and gain additional tankiness when using resistant flesh.

The amount of survivability magnecro has to begin with is already unbalanced as magnecro can easily run 3 offensive sets and still be more tanky than anything else while also having incredibly high damage once people manage to learn to use the very basic offensive gameplay of magnecro.

The only way for necro to ever receive offensive changes is that Zos completely reworks the class from the ground up, reducing its survivability drastically, changes and nerfs blastbones entirely and also changes big parts of the necromancers toolkit aswell.

katorga

VarisVaris wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

If the class gets any buffs, then like warden and NB, it needs nerfs somewhere in exchange.

Magcro is ridiculously tanky and heals a lot, I see zero reason to add damage on top of that. Definitely don't see nerfing one skill being enough to justify buffing the damage up.

Maybe players should stop trying to be ultra-tank gods and do damage, and instead start focusing on one or the other? From what I have seen on the class, the class damage is only bad if you focus solely on defense...on a class with built-in defense...

I play magcro and it is a garbage class carried by DC right now. Next patch it will be carried by bash builds. '

No mobility, no useful CC, no execute, and its vaunted "tankiness" from spirit guardian is watered down to nothing in CP because of diminishing returns from the sheer number of % damage mitigation CP and passives in the game right now. The class is dependent on harmony, and to a great extent Dark Convergence. Pre-dark convergence, most magcros ran Dawnbreaker, because you just can't hit anyone with Colossus reliably. Assume every single stamina player is reducing 20% of your damage off the top.

That's a lot of wrong statements in this short paragraph.

Mobility on magnecro with RaT is more than fine and there's no reason to ever complain about it.

Magnecro has access to DBoS which gives you an offensive CC on your burst and if you really need a CC you can easily use flame clench.

An execute on magnecro isn't needed at all and hasn't been needed since CP2.0 has reduced tankiness for any non necros and when everyone received 1k free spelldamage.
Additionally blastbones have such a high damage output that asking for an execute on Necromancer comes down to lack of experience or player skill.

Just as the next point, running spirit guardian on magnecro is actively choosing the worse option, intensive mender is so ridiculously overperforming when it comes to healing output that necro could easily survive with it alone, but on top of that you have a free heal in mortal coil and gain additional tankiness when using resistant flesh.

The amount of survivability magnecro has to begin with is already unbalanced as magnecro can easily run 3 offensive sets and still be more tanky than anything else while also having incredibly high damage once people manage to learn to use the very basic offensive gameplay of magnecro.

The only way for necro to ever receive offensive changes is that Zos completely reworks the class from the ground up, reducing its survivability drastically, changes and nerfs blastbones entirely and also changes big parts of the necromancers toolkit aswell.

Interesting because my experience is opposite. Magcro pvp dps is fine when played like a bomber, but very limited and at risk to nerfs and meta changes because the limited class kit makes you unadaptable. It is a fantastic support, healer, zerg build.

You use DBoS in the past because class ultimates are hard to land and expensive. DBoS is not. With Dark Convergance, Colossus actually works. Post-nerf next patch I can still see using DC because it works so well with Colossus.

Spirit Guardian is the poster child for why the "forums" say necro is "p2w", but in reality with the all of the % mitigation in the game, swapping to mender only lowered my actualy % mitigation by 2%. That is just how hard diminishing returns hits that 10%.

Next patch will really mix things up with hyridization. I expect to respec everything back to stamcro, all the benefits of stam, and now I will get resistant flesh and mender as large or larger than my magro gets. Even a harmony build will likely be more powerful as a stamina spec. Stamcro has no missing kit, totally flexible, now I will get to keep that massive magcro healing.

xDeusEJRx

VarisVaris wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

If the class gets any buffs, then like warden and NB, it needs nerfs somewhere in exchange.

Magcro is ridiculously tanky and heals a lot, I see zero reason to add damage on top of that. Definitely don't see nerfing one skill being enough to justify buffing the damage up.

Maybe players should stop trying to be ultra-tank gods and do damage, and instead start focusing on one or the other? From what I have seen on the class, the class damage is only bad if you focus solely on defense...on a class with built-in defense...

I play magcro and it is a garbage class carried by DC right now. Next patch it will be carried by bash builds. '

No mobility, no useful CC, no execute, and its vaunted "tankiness" from spirit guardian is watered down to nothing in CP because of diminishing returns from the sheer number of % damage mitigation CP and passives in the game right now. The class is dependent on harmony, and to a great extent Dark Convergence. Pre-dark convergence, most magcros ran Dawnbreaker, because you just can't hit anyone with Colossus reliably. Assume every single stamina player is reducing 20% of your damage off the top.

That's a lot of wrong statements in this short paragraph.

Mobility on magnecro with RaT is more than fine and there's no reason to ever complain about it.

Magnecro has access to DBoS which gives you an offensive CC on your burst and if you really need a CC you can easily use flame clench.

An execute on magnecro isn't needed at all and hasn't been needed since CP2.0 has reduced tankiness for any non necros and when everyone received 1k free spelldamage.
Additionally blastbones have such a high damage output that asking for an execute on Necromancer comes down to lack of experience or player skill.

Just as the next point, running spirit guardian on magnecro is actively choosing the worse option, intensive mender is so ridiculously overperforming when it comes to healing output that necro could easily survive with it alone, but on top of that you have a free heal in mortal coil and gain additional tankiness when using resistant flesh.

The amount of survivability magnecro has to begin with is already unbalanced as magnecro can easily run 3 offensive sets and still be more tanky than anything else while also having incredibly high damage once people manage to learn to use the very basic offensive gameplay of magnecro.

The only way for necro to ever receive offensive changes is that Zos completely reworks the class from the ground up, reducing its survivability drastically, changes and nerfs blastbones entirely and also changes big parts of the necromancers toolkit aswell.

Agree with most of this except the intensive mender part. The heal on intensive mender is great, but it doesn't target you all the time. It's the same issue as rapid regeneration. What good is a good heal if the necro chooses to come heal the random that decided to show up to where you're fighting. Lots of people choose the spirit guardian because, even if others are around you still receive a buff as opposed to the guardian focusing greenbars. Some of the pet targetting is the downside to playing necro, blastbones, the ghost and even the archer don't know which targets they should be prioritizing

katorga

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

If the class gets any buffs, then like warden and NB, it needs nerfs somewhere in exchange.

Magcro is ridiculously tanky and heals a lot, I see zero reason to add damage on top of that. Definitely don't see nerfing one skill being enough to justify buffing the damage up.

Maybe players should stop trying to be ultra-tank gods and do damage, and instead start focusing on one or the other? From what I have seen on the class, the class damage is only bad if you focus solely on defense...on a class with built-in defense...

I play magcro and it is a garbage class carried by DC right now. Next patch it will be carried by bash builds. '

No mobility, no useful CC, no execute, and its vaunted "tankiness" from spirit guardian is watered down to nothing in CP because of diminishing returns from the sheer number of % damage mitigation CP and passives in the game right now. The class is dependent on harmony, and to a great extent Dark Convergence. Pre-dark convergence, most magcros ran Dawnbreaker, because you just can't hit anyone with Colossus reliably. Assume every single stamina player is reducing 20% of your damage off the top.

That's a lot of wrong statements in this short paragraph.

Mobility on magnecro with RaT is more than fine and there's no reason to ever complain about it.

Magnecro has access to DBoS which gives you an offensive CC on your burst and if you really need a CC you can easily use flame clench.

An execute on magnecro isn't needed at all and hasn't been needed since CP2.0 has reduced tankiness for any non necros and when everyone received 1k free spelldamage.
Additionally blastbones have such a high damage output that asking for an execute on Necromancer comes down to lack of experience or player skill.

Just as the next point, running spirit guardian on magnecro is actively choosing the worse option, intensive mender is so ridiculously overperforming when it comes to healing output that necro could easily survive with it alone, but on top of that you have a free heal in mortal coil and gain additional tankiness when using resistant flesh.

The amount of survivability magnecro has to begin with is already unbalanced as magnecro can easily run 3 offensive sets and still be more tanky than anything else while also having incredibly high damage once people manage to learn to use the very basic offensive gameplay of magnecro.

The only way for necro to ever receive offensive changes is that Zos completely reworks the class from the ground up, reducing its survivability drastically, changes and nerfs blastbones entirely and also changes big parts of the necromancers toolkit aswell.

Agree with most of this except the intensive mender part. The heal on intensive mender is great, but it doesn't target you all the time. It's the same issue as rapid regeneration. What good is a good heal if the necro chooses to come heal the random that decided to show up to where you're fighting. Lots of people choose the spirit guardian because, even if others are around you still receive a buff as opposed to the guardian focusing greenbars. Some of the pet targetting is the downside to playing necro, blastbones, the ghost and even the archer don't know which targets they should be prioritizing

I multiplied it all out with my CP build, dropping guardian dropped my total % mitigation a whopping 2%. Essentially a wasted GCD. Mender is faster corpse production. It noCP the 10% from guardian is very, very valuable.

divnyi

katorga wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

If the class gets any buffs, then like warden and NB, it needs nerfs somewhere in exchange.

Magcro is ridiculously tanky and heals a lot, I see zero reason to add damage on top of that. Definitely don't see nerfing one skill being enough to justify buffing the damage up.

Maybe players should stop trying to be ultra-tank gods and do damage, and instead start focusing on one or the other? From what I have seen on the class, the class damage is only bad if you focus solely on defense...on a class with built-in defense...

I play magcro and it is a garbage class carried by DC right now. Next patch it will be carried by bash builds. '

No mobility, no useful CC, no execute, and its vaunted "tankiness" from spirit guardian is watered down to nothing in CP because of diminishing returns from the sheer number of % damage mitigation CP and passives in the game right now. The class is dependent on harmony, and to a great extent Dark Convergence. Pre-dark convergence, most magcros ran Dawnbreaker, because you just can't hit anyone with Colossus reliably. Assume every single stamina player is reducing 20% of your damage off the top.

That's a lot of wrong statements in this short paragraph.

Mobility on magnecro with RaT is more than fine and there's no reason to ever complain about it.

Magnecro has access to DBoS which gives you an offensive CC on your burst and if you really need a CC you can easily use flame clench.

An execute on magnecro isn't needed at all and hasn't been needed since CP2.0 has reduced tankiness for any non necros and when everyone received 1k free spelldamage.
Additionally blastbones have such a high damage output that asking for an execute on Necromancer comes down to lack of experience or player skill.

Just as the next point, running spirit guardian on magnecro is actively choosing the worse option, intensive mender is so ridiculously overperforming when it comes to healing output that necro could easily survive with it alone, but on top of that you have a free heal in mortal coil and gain additional tankiness when using resistant flesh.

The amount of survivability magnecro has to begin with is already unbalanced as magnecro can easily run 3 offensive sets and still be more tanky than anything else while also having incredibly high damage once people manage to learn to use the very basic offensive gameplay of magnecro.

The only way for necro to ever receive offensive changes is that Zos completely reworks the class from the ground up, reducing its survivability drastically, changes and nerfs blastbones entirely and also changes big parts of the necromancers toolkit aswell.

Agree with most of this except the intensive mender part. The heal on intensive mender is great, but it doesn't target you all the time. It's the same issue as rapid regeneration. What good is a good heal if the necro chooses to come heal the random that decided to show up to where you're fighting. Lots of people choose the spirit guardian because, even if others are around you still receive a buff as opposed to the guardian focusing greenbars. Some of the pet targetting is the downside to playing necro, blastbones, the ghost and even the archer don't know which targets they should be prioritizing

I multiplied it all out with my CP build, dropping guardian dropped my total % mitigation a whopping 2%. Essentially a wasted GCD. Mender is faster corpse production. It noCP the 10% from guardian is very, very valuable.

There is no diminishing returns on multiplicative mitigations. 10% reduction is always 10% reduction, no matter how many reductions you had previously.

Look on it from other perspective: you have 30k and 50% armor mitigation. Your effective hp is 30/0.5=60k. You apply 10% mitigation, your effective HP is 60/0.9=66.6k. If you had no armor, it would be 30/0.9=33.3k. See, +3.3k vs +6.6k. It scales with previous mitigations.

Thus, there is no diminishing returns. This is the reason why stacking % mitigations + heals is OP, and why necro is so good.

LittlePinkDot

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Magcro is the ultimate hit or miss class, some parches its absolutely garbage only rivalled in poor performance by magblade and sometimes magden. Other updates its completely game breaking and is just outright stupid how easily it can solo wipe groups whilst being incredibly hard to kill and of course this update its the latter and the game is teeming with them. Necro as a whole is outright too tanky but magcro is just on another level, mistform on a magcro gives the class unrivalled levels of easy tankyness without heavily investing in to it. The real problem though is how it can stack damage, even before cheesy garbage like dark convergence carrying, VD was more than sufficient to give it group killing power. The real main issue is avid boneyard, harmony has been picked out and nerfed as though it was a problem but no other builds other ultra specific nova synergy synergy builds has this been in any way an issue with (and that requires 2 people working in tandem to pull it off using an expensive ultimate). A self synergy skill that can be buffed to hit insane numbers that it heals for damage done off the back of nothing more than a few jewellery traits has just been such a cheesy overpowered crutch for far too long.

This synergy needs to be removed without question and magcro needs some decent sustainable damage like a useful DOT or its spammable changed so that its worth slotting and the class can be something more balanced than the 3 button group exploding mist tank it currently is. However necro without the cheese is an incredibly unpopular class and the meta hopping players that made the same ‘necro needs boneyard to be viable’ argument when harmony was originally nerfed were wrong then as they’re still wrong now, making a cheesy skill combined with a cheesy trait combo isn’t balanced. These are probably the same players that didn’t touch magcro till CP 2.0 and consider themselves as ‘elite 1vX’ players whilst crutching on a jewellery trait and a terribly designed proc set to bomb on a class they couldn’t get a kill on without the cheese.

Huh? My stamcro doesn't even use bone yard. And what jewelry are you talking about?

ashadris

katorga wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

If the class gets any buffs, then like warden and NB, it needs nerfs somewhere in exchange.

Magcro is ridiculously tanky and heals a lot, I see zero reason to add damage on top of that. Definitely don't see nerfing one skill being enough to justify buffing the damage up.

Maybe players should stop trying to be ultra-tank gods and do damage, and instead start focusing on one or the other? From what I have seen on the class, the class damage is only bad if you focus solely on defense...on a class with built-in defense...

I play magcro and it is a garbage class carried by DC right now. Next patch it will be carried by bash builds. '

No mobility, no useful CC, no execute, and its vaunted "tankiness" from spirit guardian is watered down to nothing in CP because of diminishing returns from the sheer number of % damage mitigation CP and passives in the game right now. The class is dependent on harmony, and to a great extent Dark Convergence. Pre-dark convergence, most magcros ran Dawnbreaker, because you just can't hit anyone with Colossus reliably. Assume every single stamina player is reducing 20% of your damage off the top.

It is an excellent class for playing IN a group/Zerg, or BGs as a support/healer role.

Compare to my sorc, I can run the cheapest, most basic stat sets and be 100% effective. Granted it is mostly single target, kill one person at a time, fighting, but the class has a full kit, and can be competitive running alfiq/ancient grace and zero procs. I can play a 5 year old build on my mag sorc and be perfectly fine.

So true magcro is basicly useless, never seen an effective one in bgs.. the class needs a major rework

katorga

divnyi wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

If the class gets any buffs, then like warden and NB, it needs nerfs somewhere in exchange.

Magcro is ridiculously tanky and heals a lot, I see zero reason to add damage on top of that. Definitely don't see nerfing one skill being enough to justify buffing the damage up.

Maybe players should stop trying to be ultra-tank gods and do damage, and instead start focusing on one or the other? From what I have seen on the class, the class damage is only bad if you focus solely on defense...on a class with built-in defense...

I play magcro and it is a garbage class carried by DC right now. Next patch it will be carried by bash builds. '

No mobility, no useful CC, no execute, and its vaunted "tankiness" from spirit guardian is watered down to nothing in CP because of diminishing returns from the sheer number of % damage mitigation CP and passives in the game right now. The class is dependent on harmony, and to a great extent Dark Convergence. Pre-dark convergence, most magcros ran Dawnbreaker, because you just can't hit anyone with Colossus reliably. Assume every single stamina player is reducing 20% of your damage off the top.

That's a lot of wrong statements in this short paragraph.

Mobility on magnecro with RaT is more than fine and there's no reason to ever complain about it.

Magnecro has access to DBoS which gives you an offensive CC on your burst and if you really need a CC you can easily use flame clench.

An execute on magnecro isn't needed at all and hasn't been needed since CP2.0 has reduced tankiness for any non necros and when everyone received 1k free spelldamage.
Additionally blastbones have such a high damage output that asking for an execute on Necromancer comes down to lack of experience or player skill.

Just as the next point, running spirit guardian on magnecro is actively choosing the worse option, intensive mender is so ridiculously overperforming when it comes to healing output that necro could easily survive with it alone, but on top of that you have a free heal in mortal coil and gain additional tankiness when using resistant flesh.

The amount of survivability magnecro has to begin with is already unbalanced as magnecro can easily run 3 offensive sets and still be more tanky than anything else while also having incredibly high damage once people manage to learn to use the very basic offensive gameplay of magnecro.

The only way for necro to ever receive offensive changes is that Zos completely reworks the class from the ground up, reducing its survivability drastically, changes and nerfs blastbones entirely and also changes big parts of the necromancers toolkit aswell.

Agree with most of this except the intensive mender part. The heal on intensive mender is great, but it doesn't target you all the time. It's the same issue as rapid regeneration. What good is a good heal if the necro chooses to come heal the random that decided to show up to where you're fighting. Lots of people choose the spirit guardian because, even if others are around you still receive a buff as opposed to the guardian focusing greenbars. Some of the pet targetting is the downside to playing necro, blastbones, the ghost and even the archer don't know which targets they should be prioritizing

I multiplied it all out with my CP build, dropping guardian dropped my total % mitigation a whopping 2%. Essentially a wasted GCD. Mender is faster corpse production. It noCP the 10% from guardian is very, very valuable.

There is no diminishing returns on multiplicative mitigations. 10% reduction is always 10% reduction, no matter how many reductions you had previously.

Look on it from other perspective: you have 30k and 50% armor mitigation. Your effective hp is 30/0.5=60k. You apply 10% mitigation, your effective HP is 60/0.9=66.6k. If you had no armor, it would be 30/0.9=33.3k. See, +3.3k vs +6.6k. It scales with previous mitigations.

Thus, there is no diminishing returns. This is the reason why stacking % mitigations + heals is OP, and why necro is so good.

"Now something you might notice is that this way of calculating will result in diminishing returns, what that means is that for each added mitigation source the usefulness of each individual source gets reduced. As an example, having 2 sources that give 50% mitigation will give you a total of 75% mitigation. "

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-21-03-2021

divnyi

katorga wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

If the class gets any buffs, then like warden and NB, it needs nerfs somewhere in exchange.

Magcro is ridiculously tanky and heals a lot, I see zero reason to add damage on top of that. Definitely don't see nerfing one skill being enough to justify buffing the damage up.

Maybe players should stop trying to be ultra-tank gods and do damage, and instead start focusing on one or the other? From what I have seen on the class, the class damage is only bad if you focus solely on defense...on a class with built-in defense...

I play magcro and it is a garbage class carried by DC right now. Next patch it will be carried by bash builds. '

No mobility, no useful CC, no execute, and its vaunted "tankiness" from spirit guardian is watered down to nothing in CP because of diminishing returns from the sheer number of % damage mitigation CP and passives in the game right now. The class is dependent on harmony, and to a great extent Dark Convergence. Pre-dark convergence, most magcros ran Dawnbreaker, because you just can't hit anyone with Colossus reliably. Assume every single stamina player is reducing 20% of your damage off the top.

That's a lot of wrong statements in this short paragraph.

Mobility on magnecro with RaT is more than fine and there's no reason to ever complain about it.

Magnecro has access to DBoS which gives you an offensive CC on your burst and if you really need a CC you can easily use flame clench.

An execute on magnecro isn't needed at all and hasn't been needed since CP2.0 has reduced tankiness for any non necros and when everyone received 1k free spelldamage.
Additionally blastbones have such a high damage output that asking for an execute on Necromancer comes down to lack of experience or player skill.

Just as the next point, running spirit guardian on magnecro is actively choosing the worse option, intensive mender is so ridiculously overperforming when it comes to healing output that necro could easily survive with it alone, but on top of that you have a free heal in mortal coil and gain additional tankiness when using resistant flesh.

The amount of survivability magnecro has to begin with is already unbalanced as magnecro can easily run 3 offensive sets and still be more tanky than anything else while also having incredibly high damage once people manage to learn to use the very basic offensive gameplay of magnecro.

The only way for necro to ever receive offensive changes is that Zos completely reworks the class from the ground up, reducing its survivability drastically, changes and nerfs blastbones entirely and also changes big parts of the necromancers toolkit aswell.

Agree with most of this except the intensive mender part. The heal on intensive mender is great, but it doesn't target you all the time. It's the same issue as rapid regeneration. What good is a good heal if the necro chooses to come heal the random that decided to show up to where you're fighting. Lots of people choose the spirit guardian because, even if others are around you still receive a buff as opposed to the guardian focusing greenbars. Some of the pet targetting is the downside to playing necro, blastbones, the ghost and even the archer don't know which targets they should be prioritizing

I multiplied it all out with my CP build, dropping guardian dropped my total % mitigation a whopping 2%. Essentially a wasted GCD. Mender is faster corpse production. It noCP the 10% from guardian is very, very valuable.

There is no diminishing returns on multiplicative mitigations. 10% reduction is always 10% reduction, no matter how many reductions you had previously.

Look on it from other perspective: you have 30k and 50% armor mitigation. Your effective hp is 30/0.5=60k. You apply 10% mitigation, your effective HP is 60/0.9=66.6k. If you had no armor, it would be 30/0.9=33.3k. See, +3.3k vs +6.6k. It scales with previous mitigations.

Thus, there is no diminishing returns. This is the reason why stacking % mitigations + heals is OP, and why necro is so good.

"Now something you might notice is that this way of calculating will result in diminishing returns, what that means is that for each added mitigation source the usefulness of each individual source gets reduced. As an example, having 2 sources that give 50% mitigation will give you a total of 75% mitigation. "

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-21-03-2021

What's this? An attempt to apply to authority?
75% mitigation is the same as 1/4 damage, which is twice more than 1/2 damage mitigation at 50%.
Wrong thing said twice doesn't mean it becomes correct.