DK Real needs ( however thx for the love zos)

notaplayer

Hello, The recents dk changes were pretty nice overall, thx zos to think about the class. However, they are not enough impacting offensively . That's why, instead of making whip scale with higher ressource and keep the mag cost ( why ????), you simply could make heroic/ deep slash good again, asking for a corrosive armor separated again wouldn't make any sense in the actual hybrid politic, even tho corrosive pen on dots for stam dk were good, but at least, make the SnB spammable having coherent damages compare to every other skill line spammables . Im not asking to nerf some classes, some sets, or whatever, just to give us back the playstyle that we love on dk . Tho, the sustain passive buff on combustion is nice, making us having to build less in sustain for more damages maybe, but dk has the worst ult regen of all specs, and battle roar giving ressources and the ult price and not on the amount of ults spend is something to change imo .

Urzigurumash

notaplayer wrote: »

dk has the worst ult regen of all specs, and battle roar giving ressources and the ult price and not on the amount of ults spend is something to change imo .

Good news - they did make that change. Ignoring that it costs Mag, Whip should replace Heroic Slash pretty well - except for Minor Heroism, which was taken off Brawler around the time Heroic Slash was nerfed - also right around the time Champion of the Hist was released, which has been one of my favorite sets since. I think our innate Ult Gen is low intentionally so that it doesn't overpower Battle Roar, and that's why Ult Gen Sets have always been popular for PvP DKs and PvE DK Tanks.

Restoring the DoT Penetration for Corrosive was my number one request over the last few years, I don't think you'll find many StamDK mains who disagree about that. Whether it was or would be balanced or not, I don't know, but with Whip it would go a long way towards restoring that 2016-2018 1v1 playstyle we enjoyed.

I'm not opposed to giving some damage back to Heroic / Deep Slash, but one of our interests in StamWhip was giving us some unique advantage over the other classes which are also reliant on Weapon Skills for a melee spammable.

One small detail about changes to our offense, I think we'll get some more damage on Alchemical Poisons now, so that's nice if true, although at the expense of Noxious Breath and Venomous Claw increasing in cost. Obviously not a significant source of new offense there, probably about equalized by Warden's Minor Berserk since Poison's don't scale with our Minor Brutality - only the Poisoned status effect - but, it's something.

notaplayer

I'm not opposed to giving some damage back to Heroic / Deep Slash, but one of our interests in StamWhip was giving us some unique advantage over the other classes which are also reliant on Weapon Skills for a melee spammable.

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There is no Stam whip in reality. In order to use whip the proper way, ull have to off balance/ stun someone to proc it, or spam skills depend on the morph that you wanna use. Reverb is making whip proc, dizzy as well, you can ofc find other way to make it proc. Imo, dizzy is still better than whip if u wanna play it on 2h, you can always play whip instead of slash yes, but in open world in don't think class sustain buff are gonna be enough to sustain it whitout making the tool tip lower by gaining some sustain or even have to slot meditate.




One small detail about changes to our offense, I think we'll get some more damage on Alchemical Poisons now, so that's nice if true, although at the expense of Noxious Breath and Venomous Claw increasing in cost. Obviously not a significant source of new offense there, probably about equalized by Warden's Minor Berserk since Poison's don't scale with our Minor Brutality - only the Poisoned status effect - but, it's something.

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No, the damage buff on dots in stamdk's is absolutely not comparable to a minor berserk in any case. + poison are doing absolutely no damages, those are only a sustain sources or a cc imune one.


I agree with you on the point that having same ult Gen than other specs would make roar broken, yes, and that corro pen on dots is one of the most wanted change in the spec, however, magdk imo should not benefit from this, by separing again Stam and mag corro. Mag dk need complete other changes, and those are not on the offensive plan.

MashmalloMan

Just a suggestion for your build, not many people know this:

If we're looking at PVP, DK's have a very easy time getting Major Brutality/Sorcery and Major Prophecy/Savagery due to FoO/Cauterize and Molten Armaments practically being musts.

This frees up space for your potions. I highly recommend the Magicka/Stamina/Minor Heroism pots. They're expensive, but definitely worth it.

notaplayer

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Just a suggestion for your build, not many people know this:

If we're looking at PVP, DK's have a very easy time getting Major Brutality/Sorcery and Major Prophecy/Savagery due to FoO/Cauterize and Molten Armaments practically being musts.

This frees up space for your potions. I highly recommend the Magicka/Stamina/Minor Heroism pots. They're expensive, but definitely worth it.

We've being using them for a while already

MashmalloMan

Also, Heroic Slash is no longer a spammable, it's a debuff tool like Puncture. Power Bash is the spammable, and a damn good one at that, Power Slam can do some insane damage.

I understand it's a little dissapointing because there was a meta before where you could use Heroic Slash as a spammable and it synergized nicely with the DK kit, but it's been like... 4 years now? I think that ship has sailed.

notaplayer

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Also, Heroic Slash is no longer a spammable, it's a debuff tool like Puncture. Power Bash is the spammable, and a damn good one at that, Power Slam can do some insane damage.

I understand it's a little dissapointing because there was a meta before where you could use Heroic Slash as a spammable and it synergized nicely with the DK kit, but it's been like... 4 years now? I think that ship has sailed.

Absolutely not, reverb as spammable is making u lack of a proper stun, if u wanna use leap, u won't have enough penetration on your snb bar to make it having good damages. And ye you wanna use fosilize as a stun, it's costing Hella mag and it's buged

MashmalloMan

notaplayer wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Also, Heroic Slash is no longer a spammable, it's a debuff tool like Puncture. Power Bash is the spammable, and a damn good one at that, Power Slam can do some insane damage.

I understand it's a little dissapointing because there was a meta before where you could use Heroic Slash as a spammable and it synergized nicely with the DK kit, but it's been like... 4 years now? I think that ship has sailed.

Absolutely not, reverb as spammable is making u lack of a proper stun, if u wanna use leap, u won't have enough penetration on your snb bar to make it having good damages. And ye you wanna use fosilize as a stun, it's costing Hella mag and it's buged

Never said Reverb, I said Power Bash, I meant Power Slam as the morph.

notaplayer

MashmalloMan wrote: »

notaplayer wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Also, Heroic Slash is no longer a spammable, it's a debuff tool like Puncture. Power Bash is the spammable, and a damn good one at that, Power Slam can do some insane damage.

I understand it's a little dissapointing because there was a meta before where you could use Heroic Slash as a spammable and it synergized nicely with the DK kit, but it's been like... 4 years now? I think that ship has sailed.

Absolutely not, reverb as spammable is making u lack of a proper stun, if u wanna use leap, u won't have enough penetration on your snb bar to make it having good damages. And ye you wanna use fosilize as a stun, it's costing Hella mag and it's buged

Never said Reverb, I said Power Bash, I meant Power Slam as the morph.

I meant the same, im just calling it reverb

fred4

DK real needs: Get Leap fixed!

Urzigurumash

notaplayer wrote: »

No, the damage buff on dots in stamdk's is absolutely not comparable to a minor berserk in any case.

About DoTs in general, for the way I play an advantage for our DoT damage over Wardens is that Minor Brutality's scaling and World in Ruin will carry across bars, Warden's Minor Berserk and Advanced Species do not. Or rather, I don't think they should, those Warden buffs should update for the bar you're on, as far as I know.

Heroism pots are nice for groups but when playing Solo I like to have access to pots with Detect, Immovable, and Restore Health.

It's definitely true that DK got the most mileage out of Heroic Slash, and would get the most benefit to its un-nerfing. If I recall the discussion on this forum before its nerf was that it "did too much for one skill". Something else floated around this forum was S&B bars shouldn't be capable of dealing damage, because it's "naughty", and that the Weapon Damage buff on S&B was "clearly meant for Healing only", even though DK tanks use Green Dragon Blood, not a Weapon Damage scaled heal.

Sluggy

As a StamDK main I can say I'm mostly not fond of the changes. They seem like changes for the sake of changes and not really changes that fix some of the issues. I guess the whip thing is cool. For mag DKs that's really nice. As a stam DK I use it already in PvP but this isn't really going to make it that much better for me. As for a stamwhip - I've never really cared for the idea myself. I liked that StamDKs were the masters of the weapons. But sadly that role has been diminished over the years

The hit to sustain when using noxious breath sucks. Flat out. (Hint: that *IS* our stamwhip. Has been for a while now). The sustain hit to claw is... pointless. It's not been that great of a skill for a long time now and doesn't need to be spammed anymore (Hint: that *was* our stamwhip for a bit a long time ago). The whole point of claw pre-murkmire was that we could spam it for more damage but if we had to stop in order to defend or follow mechs it would keep doing nearly the same damage over time. This was reflected in the fact that it only cost 768 stam, so that we'd WANT to spam it. Apparently ZoS decided, 'Nope, StamDKs are all DoTs now' and the proceeded to not give any particular affinity for them while actually nerfing their DoTs, patch, after patch, after patch, after patch.

There are still SEVERAL dead passives in the class. Passives that ONLY affect DK skills and are always active regardless of what they do are pointless. They promote no decision-making and do not provide DKs with anything that other classes don't have with other non-class skills. Some of those DK skill cost-reduction one could easily be removed and just have the costs baked into the skills. Then we'd have the same effect, fewer calculations, AND some open slots for actually useful passives.

Not to be totally negative, there have been at least a couple decent changes. The change to corrosive is nice, though I still wish it also... I dunno... buffed our DoTs. The Battle Roar buff was nice. Well done there. Combustion seems like change for the sake of it. Probably was a nerf to mag DKs while largely leaving StamDKs about the same or maybe ever so slightly better off.

Molten Whip was a really decent short-term spammable even for StamDKs for exactly one patch due to a bug. But that was removed post-haste. It still makes for a decent buff and burst attack in PvP but in PvE it's mostly just something I use to show some flavor. Not terrible, not good. Reflect was removed the same patch they introduced the new version of molten whip so I had mixed feelings that patch. I still think they could have left the reflect in had they added a range stipulation to it. This would have allowed the traditionally melee-ranged DKs a way to force ranged opponents in PvP to try to close the gap with them or face the consequences. Instead it just became the drab, dreary skill it is now.

I guess at the end of the day I have to say I've long given up hope of seeing marked improvements for the class. It's a solid-enough class most days with a few glaring weaknesses here and there so I don't sweat it too much. At least they've gone a long a while without any hard nerfs so I'm at least grateful there.

Ragnarock41

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Something something molten armaments must have

Tell me you don't play Dk without telling me you don't play Dk.

Yikes.. At least you used to be somewhat well grounded with your biased/bad takes in the past.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

This patch is huge for MagDK, but for stam, this patch is a huge nothing burger.