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Anybody else experiencing playing with nerf toys in BGs?
Redguards_Revenge
✭✭✭✭
Nobody was dying assassins wills, convergences, ultis, etc. Nobody barely died. It was 12 people standing close to each other doing a lot of nothing for 15 minutes. Death only happening close to true random chance.
We now know what happens when there is a deathmatch only BGs...Everybody tanks up and out heals everybody else damage. Guess what was never used...
Roll Dodge, Break Free and Block. Barely used. What does it tell us when three fundamental mitigating techniques in the game are being ignored and rarely used?
It means the mechanics of the game are broken. What is making the mechanics broken? Sets first, then class skills.
The problem are the sets. However like I said in a previous post the game is too dependent on the set paradigm it cannot be changed. ESO lost it's identity a long time ago and became a WoW like game. We have to accept that.
Then if we removed proc sets we see that some classes are far superior than other classes.
If we removed classes we would see that ....uhh...some...birth origins are far superior than other birth origins....
The sets were suppose to be the all encompassing balancers...or so some people thought...but when you have superiority in the chain with no checks, there will always be a meta.
The checks to power creep was suppose to be the skill in mitigation. The better one learned how to block, roll dodge and break free, the better they survived to fight.
Instead, sets kept getting stronger and more outlandish in their abilities. This was to override the 5 slot limit our skills had. We have people stacking up procs to go off all at the same time and gives NONE of the mechanics a way to shine.
Not only that, server issues makes break free unreliable. I can be slamming break free with full health and the server would rather overrule/ignore my break free and add another CC when zergballs are spamming multiple in one location. Even though I should be CC immune. This is what I am guessing causes the break free twice bug. Break Free should overrule everything. I don't care if the game has to halt all movement in the server to make it happen. Most of the "LAG" is actually the zerballs multiple CCs being applied over and over again because the game is too slow to place the CC immunity on the player who just broke free. So CC immunity should be placed instantaneously BLOCKING ALL INCOMING CCs on the player and then allow the person to break free. If this is how the game already works, and break free is still not working/not going off/break free twice, then it's because the game has already calculated us dead. Sometimes, but rarely, one can get the server to change it's mind on the death. It's already seen the incoming damage and tries to wait to see if we put any input. It might just be best to kill us off if it makes these lags go away.
So the people said to hell with that and then started becoming tankier to survive a burst. ZoS has made something so that the procs won't all go off at once...but we'll see how that works later.
Either intentional or unintentional ZoS decided to fight against these server issues with proc sets. Proc sets seem to be highly prioritized over other things. I could be dead wrong but I don't ever remember my proc set NOT going off. Wouldn't it be cool if dark convergence didnt go off/pull you or damage you from time to time?
This is an assumption but it seem as if ZoS wanted the game to shift from skills to letting sets do all the work for us so that they can focus on set traffic to their servers rather than the intricacies of the player and their random decisions. In my opinion it's like someone there wants to slowly remove true choice and give us an illusion through the sets.
Sets are now doing what skills do and then some. Some sets with only one piece!
So what is the solution? How can we Keep the game the way it is but still allow SKILL to shine out set procs stacking?
A person who has base game gears and has great skills (well skills are dead in pvp as of now) should be able to be on equal footing on with a person who has both average skill and the newest sets. Just because a person doesn't have the time to farm a set doesn't mean they didn't put in the time to build their skills. However, OPINION this would be detrimental to the ZoS profit paradigm.
#1 Prioritize Roll dodge, break free and block. Ball groups are exploiting this bug and people become tanky because these mechanics DO NOT WORK!
Any other suggestions? Care to offer counters?
Also I want a duel tournaments type thing.
1. 1 V 1 rising through the ranks,
2. 2 v 2 rising through the ranks
3. 3 v 3 rising through the ranks
4. 4 v 4 rising through the ranks
Must win 3 in a row for daily but can continue to rise up and get rewards.
All of these having an unranked match when the person is too high in the rankings and nobody is there to fight them.
5. 4 v 4 but a 1 v 1 each entering the ring once. Something like YYH tournament.
I would go with 1 and 5. As some good content to add.
These would increase SKILL knowledge...(and I don't mean what skills do on the bar I am talking about mechanics) Then when they go to cyro or BGs they at least know how to fend for themselves.
The 4 v 4 which is actually a 1 v 1. You have to have a team of 4. Random or not. Each player is randomly put into the 1 v 1. 5 minute time limit. whoever has the lower health bar loses when the time is up. (Rofl, some people can be very creative it they don't ko their opponent.) hmmm they'll also will have to be a tie breaker match and that will be anyone they want to go into the ring.
Whoever gets 3/4 wins advances to the next.
This is simple stuff here and I have no clue why MMOs don't have these single duel tournaments in their games.
We should add custom ones for guild players who do tournaments...they set the prize money but they use the same system available to them. It should not fragment the pvp base because they will also want their names in the leaderboards.
We now know what happens when there is a deathmatch only BGs...Everybody tanks up and out heals everybody else damage. Guess what was never used...
Roll Dodge, Break Free and Block. Barely used. What does it tell us when three fundamental mitigating techniques in the game are being ignored and rarely used?
It means the mechanics of the game are broken. What is making the mechanics broken? Sets first, then class skills.
The problem are the sets. However like I said in a previous post the game is too dependent on the set paradigm it cannot be changed. ESO lost it's identity a long time ago and became a WoW like game. We have to accept that.
Then if we removed proc sets we see that some classes are far superior than other classes.
If we removed classes we would see that ....uhh...some...birth origins are far superior than other birth origins....
The sets were suppose to be the all encompassing balancers...or so some people thought...but when you have superiority in the chain with no checks, there will always be a meta.
The checks to power creep was suppose to be the skill in mitigation. The better one learned how to block, roll dodge and break free, the better they survived to fight.
Instead, sets kept getting stronger and more outlandish in their abilities. This was to override the 5 slot limit our skills had. We have people stacking up procs to go off all at the same time and gives NONE of the mechanics a way to shine.
Not only that, server issues makes break free unreliable. I can be slamming break free with full health and the server would rather overrule/ignore my break free and add another CC when zergballs are spamming multiple in one location. Even though I should be CC immune. This is what I am guessing causes the break free twice bug. Break Free should overrule everything. I don't care if the game has to halt all movement in the server to make it happen. Most of the "LAG" is actually the zerballs multiple CCs being applied over and over again because the game is too slow to place the CC immunity on the player who just broke free. So CC immunity should be placed instantaneously BLOCKING ALL INCOMING CCs on the player and then allow the person to break free. If this is how the game already works, and break free is still not working/not going off/break free twice, then it's because the game has already calculated us dead. Sometimes, but rarely, one can get the server to change it's mind on the death. It's already seen the incoming damage and tries to wait to see if we put any input. It might just be best to kill us off if it makes these lags go away.
So the people said to hell with that and then started becoming tankier to survive a burst. ZoS has made something so that the procs won't all go off at once...but we'll see how that works later.
Either intentional or unintentional ZoS decided to fight against these server issues with proc sets. Proc sets seem to be highly prioritized over other things. I could be dead wrong but I don't ever remember my proc set NOT going off. Wouldn't it be cool if dark convergence didnt go off/pull you or damage you from time to time?
This is an assumption but it seem as if ZoS wanted the game to shift from skills to letting sets do all the work for us so that they can focus on set traffic to their servers rather than the intricacies of the player and their random decisions. In my opinion it's like someone there wants to slowly remove true choice and give us an illusion through the sets.
Sets are now doing what skills do and then some. Some sets with only one piece!
So what is the solution? How can we Keep the game the way it is but still allow SKILL to shine out set procs stacking?
A person who has base game gears and has great skills (well skills are dead in pvp as of now) should be able to be on equal footing on with a person who has both average skill and the newest sets. Just because a person doesn't have the time to farm a set doesn't mean they didn't put in the time to build their skills. However, OPINION this would be detrimental to the ZoS profit paradigm.
#1 Prioritize Roll dodge, break free and block. Ball groups are exploiting this bug and people become tanky because these mechanics DO NOT WORK!
Any other suggestions? Care to offer counters?
Also I want a duel tournaments type thing.
1. 1 V 1 rising through the ranks,
2. 2 v 2 rising through the ranks
3. 3 v 3 rising through the ranks
4. 4 v 4 rising through the ranks
Must win 3 in a row for daily but can continue to rise up and get rewards.
All of these having an unranked match when the person is too high in the rankings and nobody is there to fight them.
5. 4 v 4 but a 1 v 1 each entering the ring once. Something like YYH tournament.
I would go with 1 and 5. As some good content to add.
These would increase SKILL knowledge...(and I don't mean what skills do on the bar I am talking about mechanics) Then when they go to cyro or BGs they at least know how to fend for themselves.
The 4 v 4 which is actually a 1 v 1. You have to have a team of 4. Random or not. Each player is randomly put into the 1 v 1. 5 minute time limit. whoever has the lower health bar loses when the time is up. (Rofl, some people can be very creative it they don't ko their opponent.) hmmm they'll also will have to be a tie breaker match and that will be anyone they want to go into the ring.
Whoever gets 3/4 wins advances to the next.
This is simple stuff here and I have no clue why MMOs don't have these single duel tournaments in their games.
We should add custom ones for guild players who do tournaments...they set the prize money but they use the same system available to them. It should not fragment the pvp base because they will also want their names in the leaderboards.
2
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ShawnLaRock✭✭✭✭✭
✭The problem isn’t the sets - it’s that in BGs ATM - you don’t have to actually DO anything any more.
There’s no line of sighting, no bobbing-&-weaving, faking around corners, up & quickly back down, etc. - it’s just a steady stream of players running to the same location, to clump up and unskilfully all spam whichever player has the lowest health bar.
It’s like the zerg everyone hates in Cyro steamrolled into the middle of every BG now - and no one cares about factions, they just attack everyone.
It’s so bland and brainless without the addition of objectives to do WHILE we kill each other - and it allows the unskilled players to hide their lack of ability even more now.
Since the change, I don’t think I have played for more than my one random and/or enough matches to complete the Battlemaster quest - and even THAT I am letting go.
“Win 3 Matches” now takes about 3-5 days of combining it with my random daily, ‘cause I am certainly not sticking around for any more matches than gives me the best / quickest rewards. I don’t find myself playing BGs for “fun” - ‘cause they are not, IMHO.
S.
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moo_2021✭✭✭✭✭ShawnLaRock wrote: »There’s no line of sighting, no bobbing-&-weaving, faking around corners, up & quickly back down, etc. - it’s just a steady stream of players running to the same location, to clump up and unskilfully all spam whichever player has the lowest health bar.
It’s like the zerg everyone hates in Cyro steamrolled into the middle of every BG now - and no one cares about factions, they just attack everyone.
It’s so bland and brainless without the addition of objectives to do WHILE we kill each other - and it allows the unskilled players to hide their lack of ability even more now.
Since the change, I don’t think I have played for more than my one random and/or enough matches to complete the Battlemaster quest - and even THAT I am letting go.
I do.
Fighting each other is fun. Ever played CTF or attack/defense in FPS? You don't watch and jump to opportunity or back down from unwinnable fights. You fight to the death for your team, respawn, repeat.
It might sound brainless to you but most players are in fact unskilled and without any tactic or strategic planning, and there is barely any cooperation possible. What's wrong with unskilled players having fun? You can always have skillful duels with someone who's equally good.
I don't get why people want so badly for the game to be some kind of showcase of their superior skills. It's not dancing and nobody cares.Edited by moo_2021 on September 26, 2021 3:03PM0 -
Redguards_Revenge✭✭✭✭Redguards_Revenge wrote: »Nobody was dying assassins wills, convergences, ultis, etc. Nobody barely died. It was 12 people standing close to each other doing a lot of nothing for 15 minutes. Death only happening close to true random chance.
We now know what happens when there is a deathmatch only BGs...Everybody tanks up and out heals everybody else damage. Guess what was never used...
Roll Dodge, Break Free and Block. Barely used. What does it tell us when three fundamental mitigating techniques in the game are being ignored and rarely used?
It means the mechanics of the game are broken. What is making the mechanics broken? Sets first, then class skills.
The problem are the sets. However like I said in a previous post the game is too dependent on the set paradigm it cannot be changed. ESO lost it's identity a long time ago and became a WoW like game. We have to accept that.
(Quoted only a small portion because long post)
One solution could be to apply the same treatment Cyrodiil and Imperial City has gotten and have a No-Proc option in Battlegrounds.
I know the amount of sets enabled versus disabled isnt perfect, but taking away all the shiny toys and allowing players to actually use their skills and core tactics without relying on sets to act as additional skills may be a productive way to pinpoint where changes to classes and how they interact with each other can be made to improve balance and the overall experience of the player.
I agree with you that the game is too dependent on sets, but I think this game if it took itself more seriously surrounding balancing classes it could break their cycle of "Get new set to compete or be left behind"
My 2 cents...
Excatly, we may never be able to change that anymore because it is too ingrained into the game's life and experience. I have to agree that a huge overhaul would turn off too many players. New sets and dungeons to get those sets must be made. Both PVP and PVEers go in to trials and dungeons to get those stronger sets making them play the game more and pushing profits. It allows them to avoid making new pvp content as they can secure it by adding sets that everybody is going to be wearing next patch.
You have someone like me who wants to build skills up. Use and learn the basic mechanics of the game to mitigate damage and compete against players who lets the sets do most of the work for them. Unfortunately, since procs and heals probably take higher priority over break free. You'll be stopped from roll dodging and possibly blocking.
Then we have the guy who gets to play from time to time who wants to get in. Use the time to soley get certain sets and be up to date by watching the latest PVP streamers guide...This might be most of the player base.
Then you have the elite people who are like me and like the second guy who zos adds nerfs into the game to stop them from becoming gods in the game.
So they OPINION made my variable playstyle undesirable and made sets the focus because if there is a power creep they'll be able to run to the sets and lower it.
Right now I don't have the answer because the SETS must go on, if they start emphasizing the mechanics over proc stack damage, there will be people on here with unique styles that ZoS will never be able to adapt to...Not only that nobody would be able to replicate it. It would be a players signature. That goes against the guy who wants to come in and be up to date quickly. AKA the games culture.0 -
Ksariyu✭✭✭✭In general, I do not agree that sets are the problem with this game. Essentially, sets just act as extra skills, and add an extra dimension for players to interact with the mechanics, thus further establishing their own style.
I do agree though that, with better performance, more competitive forms of PvP would be amazing for this game. The fact that they chose to make BGs 4V4V4 instead of just 4V4 still confuses me to this day. 3 teams is a fun concept in Cyrodiil, and works well for that style of PvP (Which needs it's own big updates), but in shorter arena matches it always feels. . . crowded. It's impossible to attack when you're always getting stabbed in the back, which I think is part of why everyone builds so tanky.1