Even if they had treaders, or immovable pots, etc etc they should still be pulled.
Dark convergence not nerfed yet afaik.
However, the best ball groups, to their credit, spend long hours testing and probing the game for flaws, which they then exploit.
And last night, we had much discussion about how this well known aerobic-fitness-running group was running right through Dark Convergence.
In other words, they were not being pulled (unlike the hapless zergs)(or unlike us hapless solo pugs who get pulled all over the map).
Even if they had treaders, or immovable pots, etc etc they should still be pulled.
So maybe it wasnt the Hrothgar nerf, but that the runners found an exploit in DC mechanics
For example, they were running very fast, one idea is they are outrunning the server, desyncing it so they never get pulled by the purple orb.
neferpitou73 wrote: »
I believe DC is the one exception to stun immunity in the game. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if it's bugged since CC immunity is bugged to begin with.
Joy_Division wrote: »Dark convergence not nerfed yet afaik.
However, the best ball groups, to their credit, spend long hours testing and probing the game for flaws, which they then exploit.
And last night, we had much discussion about how this well known aerobic-fitness-running group was running right through Dark Convergence.
In other words, they were not being pulled (unlike the hapless zergs)(or unlike us hapless solo pugs who get pulled all over the map).
Even if they had treaders, or immovable pots, etc etc they should still be pulled.
So maybe it wasnt the Hrothgar nerf, but that the runners found an exploit in DC mechanics
For example, they were running very fast, one idea is they are outrunning the server, desyncing it so they never get pulled by the purple orb.
I kind of feel bad. You are convinced that those players who you have publicly identified to anyone familiar with PC NA are actually cheating because a disorganized collection of players was unable to stop them from running around on the third floor of a keep.
Since this charge has existed since 2014 (when it was EP who invented the "lag switch") and the devs seem incapable of leveling the playing field between people who organize and those who don't, you probably should look for a new MMO where the devs have found the correct formula such that a disorganized collection of X players can go toe-to-toe with a coordinated group of X players.
Ballgroups deserve to enjoy the game just like you. If you dont enjoy getting killed over and over then leave the keep. But constantly complaining about ballgroups isnt the problem, the real issue is people who casually play thinks the game should be nerfed to there skill level which is completely dumb imo. Ballgroups are made up of 12 good players who work on there strategies to succeed and shouldnt be nerfed or have there builds constantly nerfed cause people are upset they dying. Just my thoughts
neferpitou73 wrote: »
I believe DC is the one exception to stun immunity in the game. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if it's bugged since CC immunity is bugged to begin with.
Joy_Division wrote: »Dark convergence not nerfed yet afaik.
However, the best ball groups, to their credit, spend long hours testing and probing the game for flaws, which they then exploit.
And last night, we had much discussion about how this well known aerobic-fitness-running group was running right through Dark Convergence.
In other words, they were not being pulled (unlike the hapless zergs)(or unlike us hapless solo pugs who get pulled all over the map).
Even if they had treaders, or immovable pots, etc etc they should still be pulled.
So maybe it wasnt the Hrothgar nerf, but that the runners found an exploit in DC mechanics
For example, they were running very fast, one idea is they are outrunning the server, desyncing it so they never get pulled by the purple orb.
I kind of feel bad. You are convinced that those players who you have publicly identified to anyone familiar with PC NA are actually cheating because a disorganized collection of players was unable to stop them from running around on the third floor of a keep.
Since this charge has existed since 2014 (when it was EP who invented the "lag switch") and the devs seem incapable of leveling the playing field between people who organize and those who don't, you probably should look for a new MMO where the devs have found the correct formula such that a disorganized collection of X players can go toe-to-toe with a coordinated group of X players.
No Joy I never said they cheat. Exploiting or using a flaw (and maybe it is intentional mechanic and not even a flaw, who knows) in the game is NOT cheating IMO. Player vs. Developer has been in MMOs forever.
Cheating is using a speed hack, or using cheat engine etc. It is not using existing game mechanics. Using existing game mechanics shows a deep knowledge of the game.
I am now pretty convinced they are just using super speed to desync the game and avoid being pulled by DC. If you run out of the area fast enough, the game incorrectly designates who should get hit based on who is in the 8m area. Thus it will not pull them even though it appears they were in the pull radius.
I don't want to get back into the tedious discussion of whether 40 or 50 disorganized pugs should or shouldnt be able to kill 12 people in a good ball group.
Maybe ball groups are indeed full of skilled players…..to me they look more like the bot armies you used to see in Korean mmos.
Very very boring playstyle but hey to each their own: if people fancy playing like a bot five for them
🤖 🤖 🤖 🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖
NotTaylorSwift wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Dark convergence not nerfed yet afaik.
However, the best ball groups, to their credit, spend long hours testing and probing the game for flaws, which they then exploit.
And last night, we had much discussion about how this well known aerobic-fitness-running group was running right through Dark Convergence.
In other words, they were not being pulled (unlike the hapless zergs)(or unlike us hapless solo pugs who get pulled all over the map).
Even if they had treaders, or immovable pots, etc etc they should still be pulled.
So maybe it wasnt the Hrothgar nerf, but that the runners found an exploit in DC mechanics
For example, they were running very fast, one idea is they are outrunning the server, desyncing it so they never get pulled by the purple orb.
I kind of feel bad. You are convinced that those players who you have publicly identified to anyone familiar with PC NA are actually cheating because a disorganized collection of players was unable to stop them from running around on the third floor of a keep.
Since this charge has existed since 2014 (when it was EP who invented the "lag switch") and the devs seem incapable of leveling the playing field between people who organize and those who don't, you probably should look for a new MMO where the devs have found the correct formula such that a disorganized collection of X players can go toe-to-toe with a coordinated group of X players.
No Joy I never said they cheat. Exploiting or using a flaw (and maybe it is intentional mechanic and not even a flaw, who knows) in the game is NOT cheating IMO. Player vs. Developer has been in MMOs forever.
Cheating is using a speed hack, or using cheat engine etc. It is not using existing game mechanics. Using existing game mechanics shows a deep knowledge of the game.
I am now pretty convinced they are just using super speed to desync the game and avoid being pulled by DC. If you run out of the area fast enough, the game incorrectly designates who should get hit based on who is in the 8m area. Thus it will not pull them even though it appears they were in the pull radius.
I don't want to get back into the tedious discussion of whether 40 or 50 disorganized pugs should or shouldnt be able to kill 12 people in a good ball group.
Btw do you not know that DC begins pulling 1 second after proccing and then only pulls every 2 seconds? It is possible to be in and out of the radius between pulls. It’s not like players can actively time when they are running through it but it will happen sometimes that people ‘skip’ the pull just by being lucky enough. So it is not guaranteed to pull every time.
And what even are you talking about, “using super speed to desync the game”. Did you re-read that before posting? How can you possibly think that is a legitimate explanation? Baffling.
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I'm guessing that... some players... haven't looked into min/max'ing their Hard-CC immunity period.
Because if they had they would have discovered that it's actually quite possible to obtain near-permanent immunity.
VaranisArano wrote: »NotTaylorSwift wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Dark convergence not nerfed yet afaik.
However, the best ball groups, to their credit, spend long hours testing and probing the game for flaws, which they then exploit.
And last night, we had much discussion about how this well known aerobic-fitness-running group was running right through Dark Convergence.
In other words, they were not being pulled (unlike the hapless zergs)(or unlike us hapless solo pugs who get pulled all over the map).
Even if they had treaders, or immovable pots, etc etc they should still be pulled.
So maybe it wasnt the Hrothgar nerf, but that the runners found an exploit in DC mechanics
For example, they were running very fast, one idea is they are outrunning the server, desyncing it so they never get pulled by the purple orb.
I kind of feel bad. You are convinced that those players who you have publicly identified to anyone familiar with PC NA are actually cheating because a disorganized collection of players was unable to stop them from running around on the third floor of a keep.
Since this charge has existed since 2014 (when it was EP who invented the "lag switch") and the devs seem incapable of leveling the playing field between people who organize and those who don't, you probably should look for a new MMO where the devs have found the correct formula such that a disorganized collection of X players can go toe-to-toe with a coordinated group of X players.
No Joy I never said they cheat. Exploiting or using a flaw (and maybe it is intentional mechanic and not even a flaw, who knows) in the game is NOT cheating IMO. Player vs. Developer has been in MMOs forever.
Cheating is using a speed hack, or using cheat engine etc. It is not using existing game mechanics. Using existing game mechanics shows a deep knowledge of the game.
I am now pretty convinced they are just using super speed to desync the game and avoid being pulled by DC. If you run out of the area fast enough, the game incorrectly designates who should get hit based on who is in the 8m area. Thus it will not pull them even though it appears they were in the pull radius.
I don't want to get back into the tedious discussion of whether 40 or 50 disorganized pugs should or shouldnt be able to kill 12 people in a good ball group.
Btw do you not know that DC begins pulling 1 second after proccing and then only pulls every 2 seconds? It is possible to be in and out of the radius between pulls. It’s not like players can actively time when they are running through it but it will happen sometimes that people ‘skip’ the pull just by being lucky enough. So it is not guaranteed to pull every time.
And what even are you talking about, “using super speed to desync the game”. Did you re-read that before posting? How can you possibly think that is a legitimate explanation? Baffling.
Players at or very near the speed cap can have positional desyncs that make it very hard to target them properly.
It's an extension of how the server doesn't properly render where other players are on the screen. Most of the time it's fine, but perhaps you've seen players you are riding with rubberbanding or thought you beat someone in a race to a node only for them to pick it up? That's an example of when the server doesn't properly show where the other players is. It also affects targeting in combat.
We know that high speed can cause issues in Cyrodiil specifically because of the 2018 Murkmire patch when ZOS nerfed most sources of speed.
Here's some insight into what was going on from the Class Rep notes:
"ZOS told us they are aware players are moving too fast and are too difficult to target with melee and short ranged abilities. They want to slow us down. Swift Jewelry was something that was specifically mentioned. The Major Expedition buff being too strong was hinted at. The reps agreed that players are too fast and that Swift Jewelry is a primary offender, especially when it was additive to other speed boosts and Forward Momentum. The reps did not agree that the Major Expedition was too strong. It was mentioned that diminishing returns may be a better way to address the issue than flat out nerfs as it is the stacking of speed that is the primary issue."
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/437982/class-reps-meeting-notes-september-25/p1
Now, none of the above should be taken to mean that super speed desyncing the game IS what this group is doing. I'm not there and haven't seen it myself. Just know that the above has been an issue in the past, so it's not entirely out there that high speed causes targeting issues.
NotTaylorSwift wrote: »neferpitou73 wrote: »
I believe DC is the one exception to stun immunity in the game. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if it's bugged since CC immunity is bugged to begin with.
Im like 99% sure it doesn’t ignore CC immunity. If you have immunity it doesn’t pull you, otherwise you would literally not be able to move as every single person is running it.
Wasn’t it on the pts at one point that it ignored CC immunity? I’m sure I remember reading it but the live version of the set doesn’t mention anything like that. Either way, you can run through DC if you have CC immunity. And it definitely should NOT ignore it… that would be… something else :S
VaranisArano wrote: »NotTaylorSwift wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Dark convergence not nerfed yet afaik.
However, the best ball groups, to their credit, spend long hours testing and probing the game for flaws, which they then exploit.
And last night, we had much discussion about how this well known aerobic-fitness-running group was running right through Dark Convergence.
In other words, they were not being pulled (unlike the hapless zergs)(or unlike us hapless solo pugs who get pulled all over the map).
Even if they had treaders, or immovable pots, etc etc they should still be pulled.
So maybe it wasnt the Hrothgar nerf, but that the runners found an exploit in DC mechanics
For example, they were running very fast, one idea is they are outrunning the server, desyncing it so they never get pulled by the purple orb.
I kind of feel bad. You are convinced that those players who you have publicly identified to anyone familiar with PC NA are actually cheating because a disorganized collection of players was unable to stop them from running around on the third floor of a keep.
Since this charge has existed since 2014 (when it was EP who invented the "lag switch") and the devs seem incapable of leveling the playing field between people who organize and those who don't, you probably should look for a new MMO where the devs have found the correct formula such that a disorganized collection of X players can go toe-to-toe with a coordinated group of X players.
No Joy I never said they cheat. Exploiting or using a flaw (and maybe it is intentional mechanic and not even a flaw, who knows) in the game is NOT cheating IMO. Player vs. Developer has been in MMOs forever.
Cheating is using a speed hack, or using cheat engine etc. It is not using existing game mechanics. Using existing game mechanics shows a deep knowledge of the game.
I am now pretty convinced they are just using super speed to desync the game and avoid being pulled by DC. If you run out of the area fast enough, the game incorrectly designates who should get hit based on who is in the 8m area. Thus it will not pull them even though it appears they were in the pull radius.
I don't want to get back into the tedious discussion of whether 40 or 50 disorganized pugs should or shouldnt be able to kill 12 people in a good ball group.
Btw do you not know that DC begins pulling 1 second after proccing and then only pulls every 2 seconds? It is possible to be in and out of the radius between pulls. It’s not like players can actively time when they are running through it but it will happen sometimes that people ‘skip’ the pull just by being lucky enough. So it is not guaranteed to pull every time.
And what even are you talking about, “using super speed to desync the game”. Did you re-read that before posting? How can you possibly think that is a legitimate explanation? Baffling.
Players at or very near the speed cap can have positional desyncs that make it very hard to target them properly.
It's an extension of how the server doesn't properly render where other players are on the screen. Most of the time it's fine, but perhaps you've seen players you are riding with rubberbanding or thought you beat someone in a race to a node only for them to pick it up? That's an example of when the server doesn't properly show where the other players is. It also affects targeting in combat.
We know that high speed can cause issues in Cyrodiil specifically because of the 2018 Murkmire patch when ZOS nerfed most sources of speed.
Here's some insight into what was going on from the Class Rep notes:
"ZOS told us they are aware players are moving too fast and are too difficult to target with melee and short ranged abilities. They want to slow us down. Swift Jewelry was something that was specifically mentioned. The Major Expedition buff being too strong was hinted at. The reps agreed that players are too fast and that Swift Jewelry is a primary offender, especially when it was additive to other speed boosts and Forward Momentum. The reps did not agree that the Major Expedition was too strong. It was mentioned that diminishing returns may be a better way to address the issue than flat out nerfs as it is the stacking of speed that is the primary issue."
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/437982/class-reps-meeting-notes-september-25/p1
Now, none of the above should be taken to mean that super speed desyncing the game IS what this group is doing. I'm not there and haven't seen it myself. Just know that the above has been an issue in the past, so it's not entirely out there that high speed causes targeting issues.
Maybe ball groups are indeed full of skilled players…..to me they look more like the bot armies you used to see in Korean mmos.
Very very boring playstyle but hey to each their own: if people fancy playing like a bot five for them
🤖 🤖 🤖 🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖
Im guessing you never played in a ballgroup then lol
Joy_Division wrote: »Dark convergence not nerfed yet afaik.
However, the best ball groups, to their credit, spend long hours testing and probing the game for flaws, which they then exploit.
And last night, we had much discussion about how this well known aerobic-fitness-running group was running right through Dark Convergence.
In other words, they were not being pulled (unlike the hapless zergs)(or unlike us hapless solo pugs who get pulled all over the map).
Even if they had treaders, or immovable pots, etc etc they should still be pulled.
So maybe it wasnt the Hrothgar nerf, but that the runners found an exploit in DC mechanics
For example, they were running very fast, one idea is they are outrunning the server, desyncing it so they never get pulled by the purple orb.
I kind of feel bad. You are convinced that those players who you have publicly identified to anyone familiar with PC NA are actually cheating because a disorganized collection of players was unable to stop them from running around on the third floor of a keep.
Since this charge has existed since 2014 (when it was EP who invented the "lag switch") and the devs seem incapable of leveling the playing field between people who organize and those who don't, you probably should look for a new MMO where the devs have found the correct formula such that a disorganized collection of X players can go toe-to-toe with a coordinated group of X players.
No Joy I never said they cheat. Exploiting or using a flaw (and maybe it is intentional mechanic and not even a flaw, who knows) in the game is NOT cheating IMO. Player vs. Developer has been in MMOs forever.
Cheating is using a speed hack, or using cheat engine etc. It is not using existing game mechanics. Using existing game mechanics shows a deep knowledge of the game.
I am now pretty convinced they are just using super speed to desync the game and avoid being pulled by DC. If you run out of the area fast enough, the game incorrectly designates who should get hit based on who is in the 8m area. Thus it will not pull them even though it appears they were in the pull radius.
I don't want to get back into the tedious discussion of whether 40 or 50 disorganized pugs should or shouldnt be able to kill 12 people in a good ball group.
Ballgroups are made up of 12 good players who work on there strategies to succeed and shouldnt be nerfed or have there builds constantly nerfed cause people are upset they dying. Just my thoughts
NordSwordnBoard wrote: »So if everybody pops Race against time, at about the same time, they have immunity to the pull and are fast enough to escape the circle as well? That's kind of having two escape methods in one skill
NordSwordnBoard wrote: »So if everybody pops Race against time, at about the same time, they have immunity to the pull and are fast enough to escape the circle as well? That's kind of having two escape methods in one skill
That's immunity to snares and roots, pull is stun. Won't work.