Maintenance for the week of March 25:
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 28, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)

front v back bar: why does it matter so much and why does everyone talk about it but not explain it?

meowington666
meowington666
Soul Shriven
I've never really gotten a straight forward answer on what matters so much about having certain things on the front bar vs back bar. i hear it talked about a lot and recently heard that apparently it somehow also affects/is affected by things like armor and what specific pieces you wear (like body pieces vs things like helm, hands, feet, etc).
and as someone with a horrible habit of constantly switching back and forth between the two within seconds (despite having no reason to) how can i use it to my advantage to play better? working on breaking that habit but for real, it never makes sense to me when explained. they seem p much the same to me besides some abilities not staying up for their full time if you bar swap while its active (though ive only noticed a few do that).
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Effects generally benefit from the weapon equipped on the same bar you cast them with.

    So say you have a vMA staff and a Medusa staff. The vMA staff benefits your Wall of Elements cast even when you barswap, as long as you cast the skill with your vMA staff. The Medusa staff is a more general buff, but mostly useful on your spammable skills rather than Wall of Elements.

    So you set up your Back Bar with the vMA staff. Load that up with the skills that are buffed, like Wall of Elements, or the skills that don't matter if they get the Minor Force buff, like your Mystic Orb or defensive/self-healing skill.

    Then, on the front bar with the Medusa staff, stack everything you want to benefit from that buff like your spammable and other damaging skills.

    (You could reverse it. It's not like vMA can't be your front bar. What matters is that the skills match the weapon that buffs them best.)


    So in general, if you have skills that benefit from a weapon buff, you want them to be on the same bar as the matching weapon so they benefit from the set bonus or weapon enchantment.

    Does that make sense, or clear as mud?
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Weapons that are being used are also considered active and their set bonuses are in effect, while the inactive ones are not. This means you could do some interesting things with certain sets. Weapon sets are one thing but when you have a set that has an effect that once proced persists on you even after it is no longer active could be placed onto your back bar weapon slots.

    So like for example I have a build where I have Burning Spellweave on the front bar and Clever Alchemist on the back bar. Before I drink a potion I swap to my back bar so my Clever Alchemist set's 5 piece bonus is now active. When I drink the potion now I get the massive spell and weapon damage boost for 20 seconds that will persist when I switch to my front bar back to Burning Spellweave.

    Why would I do this? It allows me to equip a mythic item without having to actually sacrifice a 5 piece set or a monster set. And if you're worrying about how this leaves a one item gap in set bonuses you can equip a single item of the trainee set and get some extra health at all times.
    Edited by Vevvev on September 20, 2021 7:49PM
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • Stx
    Stx
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    To answer your question, front bar / back bar matters because with utilizing certain skills/enchants/sets on the back bar, you can maximize your dps in a pve setting. You load your front bar with instant damage skills, passive boosts, etc, and then you load your back bar with damage over time spells, buffs, and at least one weapon skill that will fire your back bar enchant even while on your front bar.

    In pvp it's a bit different. Generally your front bar will be for dealing damage, and your back bar will be for healing and buffing or mobility. This isn't etched in stone, but its common to have a front bar weapon with damage stats like penetration and a 5 piece bonus that either boosts or procs extra damage. Then your back bar weapon will have defensive stats to help you survive and recover from taking damage.
  • Kuratius
    Kuratius
    ✭✭✭
    A lot of people in this thread are also forgetting the enchantment interaction with blockade and certain other skills that causes it to be optimal for backbar use.
  • milllaurie
    milllaurie
    ✭✭✭✭
    A point about pvp:
    Often they get called "off bar" and "def bar".
    Their names have the purpose in them.
    I usually run all damage skills on front bar and all heals and buffs back. There are some exceptions tho. Rally from 2h line might be one.
    That way you can dedicate a weapon with a corresponding trait on a particular bar and get more out of it. For example sharpened or nirnhoned on the front bar and powered or defending on the back bar.
    If you run powered on backbar all your backbar heals are buffed by the trait.
    A defensive ultimate will be on your def bar too. Something like spell wall or resto ult.
  • Ippokrates
    Ippokrates
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, ESO gives you so many options you could easily make your own build relying on both bars.

    Usually dd pvers using "backbar" because they can put the Maelstrom Bow or Staff to activate weapon glyphs. That is 450 dmg from glyph for 10 sec and 1500 dmg to LA or a few thousands additional dmg from Endless Hail. And it works even in bow/bow solutions although for more mobile fight you can replace Maelstrom Bow with Asylum ;)

    As was above mentioned about pvp, you have one bar for attack and second for def, usually with S&B for things like def & health skills and S&B ultimate when it goes.

    But when you are building your own character you do not need to stick to those solutions and can do as you please to find your way of play that fits you.

    For example on my stamsorc, because of lot doubling passives I am using one bar for single target attacks (with MA Rapid Strikes) and second for AOE (with Master brawler) sometimes changing for arrow spray "bombard" - and the gameplay is really fun & dynamic even in vet dungs.

    Or on Tank S&B for point defence and 2h Tormentor for aoe taunt - so tanking is not so boring ;)

    Or resto staff on backbar on both templars & warden stamhealer for sustain (with vateshran resto staff it works quite well), shield and healing skills, also HA magicka recharge is useful - and it worked quite well in both pve & pvp.

    So do not stick too much to "What people's would say?!" Just play as you like ;)

  • grkkll
    grkkll
    ✭✭✭
    Vevvev wrote: »

    Why would I do this? It allows me to equip a mythic item without having to actually sacrifice a 5 piece set or a monster set. And if you're worrying about how this leaves a one item gap in set bonuses you can equip a single item of the trainee set and get some extra health at all times.

    I'm intrigued by this and can't see how you can have 2 fives, 1 monster set and 1 mythic, won't that always be 13 items, clearly I'm missing something so apologies for my lack of understanding

  • milllaurie
    milllaurie
    ✭✭✭✭
    grkkll wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »

    Why would I do this? It allows me to equip a mythic item without having to actually sacrifice a 5 piece set or a monster set. And if you're worrying about how this leaves a one item gap in set bonuses you can equip a single item of the trainee set and get some extra health at all times.

    I'm intrigued by this and can't see how you can have 2 fives, 1 monster set and 1 mythic, won't that always be 13 items, clearly I'm missing something so apologies for my lack of understanding

    And one pc trainee. ;)
    Let me tell you an example of such build.
    Let's take clever alchemist for an example.
    You have 2 pieces clever alchemist on your back bar.
    1 jewellery.
    2 body pieces.
    Total: 5
    You drink your potions on your backbar to proc the 675 dmg buff.
    Stuhn's 2h frontbar to proc from dizzying swing.
    3 body pieces.
    Total: 5
    Notice we still have 2 empty jewellery pieces. We put malacath and a trainee piece there.
    We also have 2 body pieces left. We put balorgh here.
    We have everything filled up now.
    2x 5pc sets
    1x 2pc monster set
    1x mythic
    1x extra piece.

    This is an example of a typical stat based pvp build.

    You can theory craft a bit and figure out which sets are one-barable. Usually they are sets that give you a buff for a duration, e.g.
    7th legion, armor master, even essence thief.
    Frontbarable sets usually are pure damage sets like spriggan/spinner, new moon, hrothgar and such.
  • Ippokrates
    Ippokrates
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Optionally, if you are using Gaze of Sithis you can have:
    1xMythic
    1pc of Monster on shoulders - for example Kragh for pen (preferable weight)
    1x5 pc on body like Heartland Conqueror - so it will always trigger weapon traits (preferable weight)
    1x5 pc on jewelry + weapon (any weight, so you can run light, medium or heavy set without penalties to sustain)
    1x arena weapon on back bar for weapon glyph ;)
    Edited by Ippokrates on September 24, 2021 5:34PM
  • Red_Feather
    Red_Feather
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I wish weapons had a symbol that showed if it was active on weapon swap or not. I get really confused as to what works and what doesn't. :(
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    grkkll wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »

    Why would I do this? It allows me to equip a mythic item without having to actually sacrifice a 5 piece set or a monster set. And if you're worrying about how this leaves a one item gap in set bonuses you can equip a single item of the trainee set and get some extra health at all times.

    I'm intrigued by this and can't see how you can have 2 fives, 1 monster set and 1 mythic, won't that always be 13 items, clearly I'm missing something so apologies for my lack of understanding

    No worries! I should have posted the build but here's the uesp link.

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=289388

    It's a neat trick someone taught me here on the forums after complaining about sacrificing my 5 piece on Clever Alchemist for a mythic. In essence what you're doing is tricking it out in such a way the mythic replaces the 5 piece bonus of the set not active, and making the 4 piece bonus of the inactive set health with the Trainee piece.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    I wish weapons had a symbol that showed if it was active on weapon swap or not. I get really confused as to what works and what doesn't. :(

    If it says it has a timer than it works when you swap.

    If it has no timer, than it's static and only works when you have the set equipped.

    If the set buffs a skill specifically, the set bonus will continue to work even if you swap from the bar where the ability was buffed by the skill.
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    grkkll wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »

    Why would I do this? It allows me to equip a mythic item without having to actually sacrifice a 5 piece set or a monster set. And if you're worrying about how this leaves a one item gap in set bonuses you can equip a single item of the trainee set and get some extra health at all times.

    I'm intrigued by this and can't see how you can have 2 fives, 1 monster set and 1 mythic, won't that always be 13 items, clearly I'm missing something so apologies for my lack of understanding

    There is 12 active slots, but 14 available because of the way weapon swapping works. Pretty simple.

    There is few combinations like:
    • 5 + 5 + 2 + 1 + 1 (5 piece front, 2 piece ability altering back, 1 stat piece like trainee or a monster piece, 1 mythic)
    • 5 + 5 + 2 + 1 + 1 (5 piece front, 5 piece back, 2 piece monster set, 1 stat piece like trainee, 1 mythic)
    • 5 + 3 + 2 + 2 + 2 (5 piece body, 3 piece set like agility jewelry, 2 piece monster set, 2x ability altering weapons)

    The most common combination for PVE for years before mythics:
    • 5 + 5 + 2 + 2 (5 piece front, 5 piece body, 2 piece ability altering back, 2 piece monster set).
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
Sign In or Register to comment.