TBH I don’t get why people are so upset over Crit Caps

gamerguy757

Look crit caps are a long time coming. And it’s probably a good thing.
1) no more wasted slots of Barbed Trap or Inner Light
2) Useage of other sets that can take place of Crit Sets
3) Git good. Bout time for a change where actual SKILL is used and not just stacking Crit to do the work for ya

Really…what is the big deal? The worst thing I see is my farming of Mothers Sorriw pieces to sell might not be needed anymore

IronWooshu

As a Nightblade main, crit damage cap will make me use other sets in PVP since I wont feel the need to maximize my crit with pure crit sets. I am worried about how much crit is in the Nightblades kit itself and if ZoS is planning to address this with the cap on crit.

EDIT: Curious also how they go forward with medium armor with these huge sweeping changes to crit.

mikey_reach

About time doing the same thing the same way over and over gets boring quick

gamerguy757

IronWooshu wrote: »

As a Nightblade main, crit damage cap will make me use other sets in PVP since I wont feel the need to maximize my crit with pure crit sets. I am worried about how much crit is in the Nightblades kit itself and if ZoS is planning to address this with the cap on crit.

EDIT: Curious also how they go forward with medium armor with these huge sweeping changes to crit.

I main a mag blade in PVE and Mech Acutiy is looking really good with this update.
Imagine just having like 50% Crit, and you Crit, mech acuity procs and now you have All Divines Shadow Mundis stone Crit all the time.

Or you are a Stam dps and you use Stampede which Crits 100% which can proc MA 100% uptime

And no need for wasted slots on Trap

VaranisArano

Change fatigue is a thing. Players who've stacked Crit have done so because ZOS has made changes to their old sets that made crit stacking more effective. Now, as ZOS nerfs Crit, they'll change again to new sets and skills in according to what ZOS buffs instead of crit. Or, they won't, because they got tired of changing their builds to follow whatever ZOS makes into the new meta.

The best illustration I've heard is that ZOS basically shakes the snowglobe and calls it a fresh landscape. That's what's happening here. It's not really a substantial change or even a change to fundamentals of ESO. It's just ZOS deciding that they'll shake up the current meta enough that players have to grind new gear to get back to where they were before the update.


Finally, you say "Git good", but it's not like the players who followed the meta were being carried by their critical hits. You need a solid rotation in order to really get the most advantage from critical hits. Likewise, you'll need a solid rotation for whatever is the next meta that ZOS shifts towards.



ZOS won't stop shaking the snowglobe, because it's the easiest way to prevent ESO from going stagnant. Stagnant MMOs = bored players who leave. Still, change fatigue is a thing.

gamerguy757

VaranisArano wrote: »

Change fatigue is a thing. Players who've stacked Crit have done so because ZOS has made changes to their old sets that made crit stacking more effective. Now, as ZOS nerfs Crit, they'll change again to new sets and skills in according to what ZOS buffs instead of crit. Or, they won't, because they got tired of changing their builds to follow whatever ZOS makes into the new meta.

The best illustration I've heard is that ZOS basically shakes the snowglobe and calls it a fresh landscape. That's what's happening here. It's not really a substantial change or even a change to fundamentals of ESO. It's just ZOS deciding that they'll shake up the current meta enough that players have to grind new gear to get back to where they were before the update.


Finally, you say "Git good", but it's not like the players who followed the meta were being carried by their critical hits. You need a solid rotation in order to really get the most advantage from critical hits. Likewise, you'll need a solid rotation for whatever is the next meta that ZOS shifts towards.

I probably should’ve been more specific on the get good. That was more for pvp. Since PvP is like 1% skill and 99% proc and Crit doing things for you

VaranisArano

gamerguy757 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Change fatigue is a thing. Players who've stacked Crit have done so because ZOS has made changes to their old sets that made crit stacking more effective. Now, as ZOS nerfs Crit, they'll change again to new sets and skills in according to what ZOS buffs instead of crit. Or, they won't, because they got tired of changing their builds to follow whatever ZOS makes into the new meta.

The best illustration I've heard is that ZOS basically shakes the snowglobe and calls it a fresh landscape. That's what's happening here. It's not really a substantial change or even a change to fundamentals of ESO. It's just ZOS deciding that they'll shake up the current meta enough that players have to grind new gear to get back to where they were before the update.


Finally, you say "Git good", but it's not like the players who followed the meta were being carried by their critical hits. You need a solid rotation in order to really get the most advantage from critical hits. Likewise, you'll need a solid rotation for whatever is the next meta that ZOS shifts towards.

I probably should’ve been more specific on the get good. That was more for pvp. Since PvP is like 1% skill and 99% proc and Crit doing things for you

Well, in PVP, I'm not sure your point really holds up, now that Proc sets can crit. I mean, that's pretty much sets doing damage for you. The changes to procs stacking with burst damage would seem more on topic...but that wasn't the crit capping changes. Crit caps have more to do with PVE power creep and the overabundance of crit builds for PVE damage dealers.

gamerguy757

VaranisArano wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Change fatigue is a thing. Players who've stacked Crit have done so because ZOS has made changes to their old sets that made crit stacking more effective. Now, as ZOS nerfs Crit, they'll change again to new sets and skills in according to what ZOS buffs instead of crit. Or, they won't, because they got tired of changing their builds to follow whatever ZOS makes into the new meta.

The best illustration I've heard is that ZOS basically shakes the snowglobe and calls it a fresh landscape. That's what's happening here. It's not really a substantial change or even a change to fundamentals of ESO. It's just ZOS deciding that they'll shake up the current meta enough that players have to grind new gear to get back to where they were before the update.


Finally, you say "Git good", but it's not like the players who followed the meta were being carried by their critical hits. You need a solid rotation in order to really get the most advantage from critical hits. Likewise, you'll need a solid rotation for whatever is the next meta that ZOS shifts towards.

I probably should’ve been more specific on the get good. That was more for pvp. Since PvP is like 1% skill and 99% proc and Crit doing things for you

Well, in PVP, I'm not sure your point really holds up, now that Proc sets can crit. I mean, that's pretty much sets doing damage for you. The changes to procs stacking with burst damage would seem more on topic...but that wasn't the crit capping changes. Crit caps have more to do with PVE power creep and the overabundance of crit builds for PVE damage dealers.

Good point.
Let’s say the cap was at 50% chance. What sets for magicka would probably be useful now? (MS would be completely obsolete)
Siroria + Medusa + ?

Nord_Raseri

gamerguy757 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Change fatigue is a thing. Players who've stacked Crit have done so because ZOS has made changes to their old sets that made crit stacking more effective. Now, as ZOS nerfs Crit, they'll change again to new sets and skills in according to what ZOS buffs instead of crit. Or, they won't, because they got tired of changing their builds to follow whatever ZOS makes into the new meta.

The best illustration I've heard is that ZOS basically shakes the snowglobe and calls it a fresh landscape. That's what's happening here. It's not really a substantial change or even a change to fundamentals of ESO. It's just ZOS deciding that they'll shake up the current meta enough that players have to grind new gear to get back to where they were before the update.


Finally, you say "Git good", but it's not like the players who followed the meta were being carried by their critical hits. You need a solid rotation in order to really get the most advantage from critical hits. Likewise, you'll need a solid rotation for whatever is the next meta that ZOS shifts towards.

I probably should’ve been more specific on the get good. That was more for pvp. Since PvP is like 1% skill and 99% proc and Crit doing things for you

Well, in PVP, I'm not sure your point really holds up, now that Proc sets can crit. I mean, that's pretty much sets doing damage for you. The changes to procs stacking with burst damage would seem more on topic...but that wasn't the crit capping changes. Crit caps have more to do with PVE power creep and the overabundance of crit builds for PVE damage dealers.

Good point.
Let’s say the cap was at 50% chance. What sets for magicka would probably be useful now? (MS would be completely obsolete)
Siroria + Medusa + ?

I believe it's crit damage done that is being capped. Btw.

colossalvoids

Nord_Raseri wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Change fatigue is a thing. Players who've stacked Crit have done so because ZOS has made changes to their old sets that made crit stacking more effective. Now, as ZOS nerfs Crit, they'll change again to new sets and skills in according to what ZOS buffs instead of crit. Or, they won't, because they got tired of changing their builds to follow whatever ZOS makes into the new meta.

The best illustration I've heard is that ZOS basically shakes the snowglobe and calls it a fresh landscape. That's what's happening here. It's not really a substantial change or even a change to fundamentals of ESO. It's just ZOS deciding that they'll shake up the current meta enough that players have to grind new gear to get back to where they were before the update.


Finally, you say "Git good", but it's not like the players who followed the meta were being carried by their critical hits. You need a solid rotation in order to really get the most advantage from critical hits. Likewise, you'll need a solid rotation for whatever is the next meta that ZOS shifts towards.

I probably should’ve been more specific on the get good. That was more for pvp. Since PvP is like 1% skill and 99% proc and Crit doing things for you

Well, in PVP, I'm not sure your point really holds up, now that Proc sets can crit. I mean, that's pretty much sets doing damage for you. The changes to procs stacking with burst damage would seem more on topic...but that wasn't the crit capping changes. Crit caps have more to do with PVE power creep and the overabundance of crit builds for PVE damage dealers.

Good point.
Let’s say the cap was at 50% chance. What sets for magicka would probably be useful now? (MS would be completely obsolete)
Siroria + Medusa + ?

I believe it's crit damage done that is being capped. Btw.

Yeah, it's crit damage and not crit chance for sure they were talking about.

Nord_Raseri

@VaranisArano coming in all insightful as always

crysis992

gamerguy757 wrote: »

Good point.
Let’s say the cap was at 50% chance. What sets for magicka would probably be useful now? (MS would be completely obsolete)
Siroria + Medusa + ?

Crit Damage will be capped, not critical chance.

So things like trap/Acceleration, shadow mundus, class/race passives, kilt and maybe even buffs/debuffs like horn/ele catalyst/brittle that increase your critical damage in PvE.

On my templar I'm already at 71% crit damage without any raidbuffs/debuff on boss

DonHardstyle

They saw everyone switch from high elf to khajit. They do the same trick and want us to buy crowns.

Eshkerigal

I'm just worry about passives like Death Knell. It gives nice execute burst.

They will have to change passive or just allow us to overcap critical chance

LittlePinkDot

gamerguy757 wrote: »

Look crit caps are a long time coming. And it’s probably a good thing.
1) no more wasted slots of Barbed Trap or Inner Light
2) Useage of other sets that can take place of Crit Sets
3) Git good. Bout time for a change where actual SKILL is used and not just stacking Crit to do the work for ya

Really…what is the big deal? The worst thing I see is my farming of Mothers Sorriw pieces to sell might not be needed anymore

What is the Crit Damage capped at?

Elsonso

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

Look crit caps are a long time coming. And it’s probably a good thing.
1) no more wasted slots of Barbed Trap or Inner Light
2) Useage of other sets that can take place of Crit Sets
3) Git good. Bout time for a change where actual SKILL is used and not just stacking Crit to do the work for ya

Really…what is the big deal? The worst thing I see is my farming of Mothers Sorriw pieces to sell might not be needed anymore

What is the Crit Damage capped at?

Won't know until Monday.

Dauntess13

Instead of nerfing how much crit you get from stats, traits, etc, they should have just capped crit and added more ways to get it. It reigns in high crit which they were worried about but also let's people decide themselves if they want their crit from armor, or somewhere else because they personally don't like the "meta" gear. I've played a lot of games where capping a certain star, but offering more ways to get it just improved the game.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Eshkerigal wrote: »

I'm just worry about passives like Death Knell. It gives nice execute burst.

They will have to change passive or just allow us to overcap critical chance

It critical damage getting capped not crit chance

Xebov

Players dont like change if it doesnt benefit them. If they have to change sets because something better is available tehy are happy, if tehy have to change them because something was nerfed they are not. Thats the main reason why alot of feedback is never taken into consideration.

Grandchamp1989

I'm just exhausted over the constant meta shift to be honest.

DOTs Meta, Proc Meta, Crit meta, back to proc.. kinda but not really sort of hybrid meta.

Also many people changed to Khajiit for the crit meta, and now it may even become a liability depending on how they change it come monday...

Grandchamp1989

gamerguy757 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Change fatigue is a thing. Players who've stacked Crit have done so because ZOS has made changes to their old sets that made crit stacking more effective. Now, as ZOS nerfs Crit, they'll change again to new sets and skills in according to what ZOS buffs instead of crit. Or, they won't, because they got tired of changing their builds to follow whatever ZOS makes into the new meta.

The best illustration I've heard is that ZOS basically shakes the snowglobe and calls it a fresh landscape. That's what's happening here. It's not really a substantial change or even a change to fundamentals of ESO. It's just ZOS deciding that they'll shake up the current meta enough that players have to grind new gear to get back to where they were before the update.


Finally, you say "Git good", but it's not like the players who followed the meta were being carried by their critical hits. You need a solid rotation in order to really get the most advantage from critical hits. Likewise, you'll need a solid rotation for whatever is the next meta that ZOS shifts towards.

I probably should’ve been more specific on the get good. That was more for pvp. Since PvP is like 1% skill and 99% proc and Crit doing things for you

Well, in PVP, I'm not sure your point really holds up, now that Proc sets can crit. I mean, that's pretty much sets doing damage for you. The changes to procs stacking with burst damage would seem more on topic...but that wasn't the crit capping changes. Crit caps have more to do with PVE power creep and the overabundance of crit builds for PVE damage dealers.

Good point.
Let’s say the cap was at 50% chance. What sets for magicka would probably be useful now? (MS would be completely obsolete)
Siroria + Medusa + ?

Was my first thought along with Bahsei. Maybe if we get both spell and weapon dmg on sets mag players will start using relequen - especially since they'll be able to crit. Until next patch then they'll probably nerf proc sets again due to the whole hrothcar/Dark convergence thing..

DarkPicture

Imagine if people could read and knows difference between crit dmg and crit chance.


btw. its about crit dmg

Eshkerigal

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Eshkerigal wrote: »

I'm just worry about passives like Death Knell. It gives nice execute burst.

They will have to change passive or just allow us to overcap critical chance

It critical damage getting capped not crit chance

O...oh.

vgabor

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Change fatigue is a thing. Players who've stacked Crit have done so because ZOS has made changes to their old sets that made crit stacking more effective. Now, as ZOS nerfs Crit, they'll change again to new sets and skills in according to what ZOS buffs instead of crit. Or, they won't, because they got tired of changing their builds to follow whatever ZOS makes into the new meta.

The best illustration I've heard is that ZOS basically shakes the snowglobe and calls it a fresh landscape. That's what's happening here. It's not really a substantial change or even a change to fundamentals of ESO. It's just ZOS deciding that they'll shake up the current meta enough that players have to grind new gear to get back to where they were before the update.


Finally, you say "Git good", but it's not like the players who followed the meta were being carried by their critical hits. You need a solid rotation in order to really get the most advantage from critical hits. Likewise, you'll need a solid rotation for whatever is the next meta that ZOS shifts towards.

I probably should’ve been more specific on the get good. That was more for pvp. Since PvP is like 1% skill and 99% proc and Crit doing things for you

Well, in PVP, I'm not sure your point really holds up, now that Proc sets can crit. I mean, that's pretty much sets doing damage for you. The changes to procs stacking with burst damage would seem more on topic...but that wasn't the crit capping changes. Crit caps have more to do with PVE power creep and the overabundance of crit builds for PVE damage dealers.

Good point.
Let’s say the cap was at 50% chance. What sets for magicka would probably be useful now? (MS would be completely obsolete)
Siroria + Medusa + ?

Was my first thought along with Bahsei. Maybe if we get both spell and weapon dmg on sets mag players will start using relequen - especially since they'll be able to crit. Until next patch then they'll probably nerf proc sets again due to the whole hrothcar/Dark convergence thing..

siroria + relequen?

Gaebriel0410

I always thought crit damage stacking was a bit of an uninteresting concept, especially with it apparently always being superior to most other stats (not 100% sure, I never meta). And if one way is always statistically superior, it should be capped or brought in line with other things, since that makes for better variety, and char build variety is one of ESO's strong points IMO.

Crit-wise I think crit chance is the more interesting stat, because it's a chance and not a given, which makes it more exciting for lack of a better word, when you do crit.

Nagastani

gamerguy757 wrote: »

Look crit caps are a long time coming. And it’s probably a good thing.
1) no more wasted slots of Barbed Trap or Inner Light
2) Useage of other sets that can take place of Crit Sets
3) Git good. Bout time for a change where actual SKILL is used and not just stacking Crit to do the work for ya

Really…what is the big deal? The worst thing I see is my farming of Mothers Sorriw pieces to sell might not be needed anymore

I feel compelled to help provide an answer for the OP as well as to document why this is important to me and the players I run with in both PvE and PvP:

1) So Inner Light is not a wasted slot, it improves Crit Chance (Crit %). This is them wanting to reduce Crit Dmg - AND- Crit Healing. The other morph can be useful as well in PvP but maybe not as much as in the past due to insanely high burst dmg. Being a great source of Crit %, Anyone who uses Crit for Mag Dmg build would find this skill as a must have and would understand its value to the build overall, especially since pretty much the only other way to get this affect is thru a pot.
2) You can already do that. The point is using a Crit approach now more than ever before requires a build made specifically for it. See what this means is if I choose to develop a Crit % and Dmg build rather than just raw dmg and pen, I must go in a different direction. Although once again, you can make a diversified dmg build now except the fact that because Crit % has been so reduced your build must focus on getting that right first which takes up... alot. Whereas before it was easier to get the build that they're describing because Crit % was higher thus, I don't have to spend so much of my build on Crit %. They took it away and now... they're saying they want us to focus on a diversified dmg build that was made possible previously because the Crit % was higher then? Wouldn't it not really matter because if I am focusing a little more on Crit Dmg then... wouldn't that mean I'm not focusing on gains from a different dmg type? Isn't that the same difference?
3) Putting together a solid Crit Dmg build is not something that many players will understand how to do correctly however it IS something they can copy and work at farming to get the set pieces. And yes I've produced a post somewhere on here that explains the relationship between Crit % and Crit Dmg, as well as have several other forum contributors over time. But please don't tell us to 'Git Good' and that 'actual Skill is not being used' because Crit Dmg builds are actually some of the most advanced builds in the game along with the skills that depends on them, all for necessary reasons. YouTube by now is loaded with videos that display end-game sets and content. This is also something that anyone can learn how to do if they take time to understand how Crits work and why they are used vs focusing exclusively on just pen and regular dmg which are static sources of damage by nature and not dynamic. As a proof in point, please also take a moment to recognize the fact that some of the best players in this game use Crit Builds regularly and are extremely knowledgeable when it comes to completing end game content.

And Crits can be useful even in PvP, I've done it. I'm 100% against this change and I think ZOS should please reconsider this direction and let players build what we need not what they think we need/don't need. It also is illogical for ZOS to lower the Crit % and then, put a cap on the Crit Dmg and then say we have more goto sources for dmg. I think capping Crits defeats the purpose of having them to start with. IF anything they've actually reduced our options, made our expensive Crit builds less gainful for the time and work put into them and then haven't given us anything we did not have already have previously and are now forcing us to use another dmg type that we really had not planned for or may not even be *mathematically justifiable* for our specific purpose (such as having excessive amounts of penetration or raw dmg that is a direct debuff compared to using Crit values instead). If this is how it is then it might make sense for ZOS to produce our builds for us and then we can just choose from what they're going to give us.

Lastly but just as important, this change may also make races that buff Crit Dmg less desirable, such as the Khajit, because Templar and NB receive a 10% buff to Crit Dmg already, among other reasons.

Vylaera

If the cap is anything less than 100 then it will be such a ridiculous overstep. Damage builds rely on high crit damage to bring down the tanks with 50k health and high resistances. Even then, good luck actually successfully killing one even with mechanical acuity and a good gank burst. It's basically impossible to gank them. It looks like they're throwing darts at a board to find things to nerf for these patches. And they're so inconsistent.

What ZOS says: procs shouldn't be a source of free damage. We've seen people building tanky and relying on proc damage, so we'll make procs scale off of stats so that people have to build for stats if they want to do good damage with procs

What ZOS does: makes the proc stat scale ceiling low and makes procs able to crit again.

???

What we will see next patch is everyone running mechanical acuity and a cheese proc set and instant killing people while still being just about as tanky as they were before. The tank-proc meta somehow just got even worse, and they really thought a 1 second cooldown would fix it.

If they don't change it, then I'm not touching PvP again unless I can really push the limits. Even then, it's gonna be too frustrating.

KhajiitLivesMatter

gamerguy757 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Change fatigue is a thing. Players who've stacked Crit have done so because ZOS has made changes to their old sets that made crit stacking more effective. Now, as ZOS nerfs Crit, they'll change again to new sets and skills in according to what ZOS buffs instead of crit. Or, they won't, because they got tired of changing their builds to follow whatever ZOS makes into the new meta.

The best illustration I've heard is that ZOS basically shakes the snowglobe and calls it a fresh landscape. That's what's happening here. It's not really a substantial change or even a change to fundamentals of ESO. It's just ZOS deciding that they'll shake up the current meta enough that players have to grind new gear to get back to where they were before the update.


Finally, you say "Git good", but it's not like the players who followed the meta were being carried by their critical hits. You need a solid rotation in order to really get the most advantage from critical hits. Likewise, you'll need a solid rotation for whatever is the next meta that ZOS shifts towards.

I probably should’ve been more specific on the get good. That was more for pvp. Since PvP is like 1% skill and 99% proc and Crit doing things for you

if u rly say staff like crit is doing 99% for u than u should get good lul - i dont get why people mimimi about crits or proc sets - if u choose to use that sets u dont get other stats like weapon dmg - so if u choose to go for crit than u deserve to crit like wtf nobody would mimimi about u having to much weapon dmg and say weapon dmg is doing 99% for u

DreadDaedroth

Limits on such things as critical damage are always bad.

EF321

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

I always thought crit damage stacking was a bit of an uninteresting concept, especially with it apparently always being superior to most other stats (not 100% sure, I never meta). And if one way is always statistically superior, it should be capped or brought in line with other things, since that makes for better variety, and char build variety is one of ESO's strong points IMO.

Crit-wise I think crit chance is the more interesting stat, because it's a chance and not a given, which makes it more exciting for lack of a better word, when you do crit.

I wanted to say the same. Just stacking one cookie cutter stat is boring as hell. Whatever gives mathematically highest critical rating is BiS, wooo.

Like with penetration, there is only so much one can ever need in PvE. So you choose to get X pen and then something else to complement it, be it crit, crit damage or raw damage. Or maybe you go proc + damage. Or proc + crit chance. Or two procs with different effects. Or maybe you choose to stay at crit dmg cap and rely on rng to sometimes land those heavy hitters.


Ideally, each of such comboes should be viable enough in terms of damage done, like within couple of % of each other, so resulting build in the end should be not "highest damage numbers", since they are all the same, but what fits your playstyle most and what is the most fun personally to you. And instead of having raid group where everyone wears the same gear, you'll have different, unique, personalized builds that play differently, but are equally good.
Of course, achieving such balance is not really realistic task.

Ryath_Waylander

@VaranisArano Off topic I know, but I always enjoy reading your responses. Whether I side for or against the discussions you choose to respond to, they are always measured, well thought out and non-combative. Really just positive contributions all round.