Open Letter: Armory System and Console

YoshinJaa

I think the addition of the Armory System is fantastic and seems to be very intuitive in comparison to the Dressing Room add-on on PC. However, the most disadvantageous feature mentioned in the U32 preview stream is that we cannot use the Armory Assistant in mid-trial/arena content, but only before you enter/start said content. As a console player since ESO launched on Xbox this was one of the most requested features that I and I know many others were wanting to experience. The Armory System design is definitely in the right step, but it has fallen short due to not being able to use it outside of combat in timed leaderboard instances.

Why disable the ability for the assistant's use in mid-content? If my raid team wants to be able to swap gear or loadouts prior to the next fight or boss we should be allowed to do so because it is our valued time that is being used. Sure it may only take a few seconds once everyone is accustomed to it, but that should be a choice led by the players, a core design philosophy that ESO trends on. This feature should be accessible only out of combat like the Banker or Merchant currently is.

I am not sure how the Armory System will serve on PC, but in my opinion, I am not sure if it will make an overall impact on use comparatively with the core functionalities of Dressing Room.

Give console a chance to finally be able to swap loadouts as PC can so that the disparity between PC and console score pushing can be potentially closer than it has ever been in all of ESO's years.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_RichLambert

HugoG92

^ What he said.
I'm not buying it unless i can use it in trials.

NettleCarrier

It's absolutely stupid if you can't use it in trials. PC users (like me) will continue to use one of the many gear swap addons bound to one or two button presses (depending on if bars need to be swapped) while console only gets similar treatment for overland. I feel bad for those folks and want them to have the same opportunities we do.

Dur2a

I 100% agree. As a console player who has been part of the endgame community for a long time, it’s a constant discussion in our Discord servers across every guild that we would cut off our limbs as sacrifice to have Dressing Room.

Cut to today’s stream, and we’re informed that we finally have this coming to the base game. Then finding out that we can’t use it in vet trials or arenas? That’s just disappointing, and frankly it doesn’t make me want to continue with my Xbox account at all. To say that it would be unfair to incorporate this system into leaderboard associated content is hubris. On PC I’m able to swap my loadouts to a very similar extent, and the only ones that truly even matter, with the press of a button. Regardless of the content I’m in, it’s available to me. This plays a very large factor in the reason that PC scores are absolutely untouchable for console players and when you add in that you can also track your buff/debuff uptimes with CMX, your Horn/colossus timers with Hodor, your live weave average with Weave Delay, and also have addons like Raid Notifier or Code’s Combat Alerts make the mechanics almost foolproof as well as take the work out of raid leading entirely? The game has been unbalanced for years between PC and console, and if these halfway attempts to bridge that gap continue to be such a slap in the face to the true endgame players on console then that entire portion of the community will just fade. Anyone that’s part of it will tell you that the majority of that community has already dropped their console account entirely in favor of swapping to PC where their time and effort feels more worthwhile.

I know that there was no malicious intent here, but it feels like a massive oversight to not think about how it would make the console community feel to know that we’re still second class citizens to Zenimax. Just my 2¢ on the subject, I hope this thread gets the visibility it deserves. I know the entire console endgame community is unhappy with this “caveat” right now, more than will bother to come here and at least attempt to be heard.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Kevin

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Would be nice but not needed since we made it without it for years now

We dont need to thange gear after every fight, nor do we need 10 saved build

Needing and wanting are 2 completly differant word

Dur2a

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Would be nice but not needed since we made it without it for years now

We dont need to thange gear after every fight, nor do we need 10 saved build

Needing and wanting are 2 completly differant word

If you’ve ever pushed a score in vet trial/arena content on console, then you’d see it differently. It makes more of a difference than you’d think.

Hotdog_23

Should be able to change as long as you are not in combat. Overall looks good except the extra slots per character and not account wide. The outfit system mistakes all over again. If they insist on this sort of insanity they should as least give us 3 slots at base and not 2. One for each role.

Stay safe and have fun,🙂

Oh almost forgot fix the green tree already.

trackdemon5512

It not being allowed in trial is ZOS implicitly implying that Dressing Rooms ability to let you do the same isn’t the developer’s intention for combat play. If it’s codified in that means that trials should be designed with the expectation of players switching sets and that philosophy is more of an exclusive play style than inclusive.

No trial should have 3 sets needed to get trifectas and this ensures that trials are developed the same consistent way going forward. Remember that this is now a permanent change to the game going forward unlike Dressing Room.

Furthermore, I would not be surprised if ZOS now made moves to disable Dressing Room going forward. It still presents a PC advantage if that platform gets to switch during trials and it clashes with the new crown store purchase.

Ippokrates

Well, imagine you are taking speedrun through Sunspire. During Boss fight you will most probably use Relequen but... what if you can clean mobs on the way with, lets say... Azureblight. Yeah, new records on the way

Adzer2

Ippokrates wrote: »

Well, imagine you are taking speedrun through Sunspire. During Boss fight you will most probably use Relequen but... what if you can clean mobs on the way with, lets say... Azureblight. Yeah, new records on the way

Yeah I think that's what they are trying to avoid, people constantly switching sets before each fight to maximise efficiency, I think what needs to happen is to allow changes in trials but doing so removes the score from leaderboard, it will allow people to try different sets in trials but not allow people to constantly change for leaderboard scores

kargen27

Three words. Pay to win. You only get two slots free the others are available in crown store. You know if players are allowed access to more than the two free slots in trials the forums will be filled with pay to win threads.

Not sure why people mention a PC advantage as if the platforms are competing with each other? The game plays different but console players are not missing out on leader board rewards because PC scores are higher. If cross play were ever introduced (I'm for it never happening) then PC add-ons would be an issue.

Dur2a

Ippokrates wrote: »

Well, imagine you are taking speedrun through Sunspire. During Boss fight you will most probably use Relequen but... what if you can clean mobs on the way with, lets say... Azureblight. Yeah, new records on the way

This already happens (albeit different sets) on PC, and it’s a part of why PC holds such dominion over the leaderboards in literally every single piece of content available. It’s actually the whole point behind this thread

tmbrinks

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

No trial should have 3 sets needed to get trifectas and this ensures that trials are developed the same consistent way going forward. Remember that this is now a permanent change to the game going forward unlike Dressing Room.

Thanks goodness this is most definitely not the case (other than maybe Rockgrove right now but that's because the trial is overtuned to begin with).

Malmer

i agree with that first post... i see the general benefit from it not wasting time to switch setups when u wanna go after the trial in pvp in example but the most or nearly every console player was wish a dressing room or a feature like armory mainly for arena and trials because it would increase the scores etc. in vma or vateshran u would use in trash fights completly other sets like the bosses so for me armory its completly useless because it is not possible it would bring pc and console more close together score and achievement wise (Godslayer planesbreaker) because pc has it already with way more addons easier i dont wanna complain about that or do any compares thats fine but i like running highscores etc thats why i want that ZOS maybe change it that we can use it in vma dsa brp vate and trials please

Ippokrates

Dur2a wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

Well, imagine you are taking speedrun through Sunspire. During Boss fight you will most probably use Relequen but... what if you can clean mobs on the way with, lets say... Azureblight. Yeah, new records on the way

This already happens (albeit different sets) on PC, and it’s a part of why PC holds such dominion over the leaderboards in literally every single piece of content available. It’s actually the whole point behind this thread

I know, but as someone above mentioned, with this decision ZOS is showing how in their opinion game was designed to be played

Thevampirenight

By the sounds of it they are not going after pc addons. Basically this system is more advanced then the Pc addons, but the reason why its monetarized was actually explained by Rich Lambert a bit.

Because they don't have a mandatory subscription anymore, the monetization is what keeps the lights on the servers. So they have to have so much money and they take stuff like that into consideration. Going back to the mandatory subscription is likely never happening because more players actually are able to play the game and it allowed the game to really take off by removing the requirement.

As for it not being account wide its basically do to differences in class and stuff like that.

This system does more then addons according to Rich, it also saves stuff like morphs and other stuff the addons can't do. So the system is supposed to be overall better. As to why it can't be used in Trials and stuff, my guess is they don't want people minimaxing through various super builds, between different passives and stuff. I don't know on that one.

Dur2a

Thevampirenight wrote: »

By the sounds of it they are not going after pc addons. Basically this system is more advanced then the Pc addons, but the reason why its monetarized was actually explained by Rich Lambert a bit.

Because they don't have a mandatory subscription anymore, the monetization is what keeps the lights on the servers. So they have to have so much money and they take stuff like that into consideration. Going back to the mandatory subscription is likely never happening because more players actually are able to play the game and it allowed the game to really take off by removing the requirement.

As for it not being account wide its basically do to differences in class and stuff like that.

This system does more then addons according to Rich, it also saves stuff like morphs and other stuff the addons can't do. So the system is supposed to be overall better. As to why it can't be used in Trials and stuff, my guess is they don't want people minimaxing through various super builds, between different passives and stuff. I don't know on that one.

I don’t think anyone thinks that every feature should be unlimited and accessible in these leaderboard instances, that would be obscene. Really the goal would be to bring console/PC closer in power by at least enabling you to swap gear/skill/CP loadouts mid-trial. Leave the rest, there’s no need to go that far tbh. But to say we can’t at least swap the basics in raid the way PC can with dressing room because of the how it affects the score isn’t really fair.

I don’t wanna see PC have dressing room killed either, I just wanna see the devs take the tools they’ve put years into designing and unlock the functionality in a way that’s at least fair to us.

tmbrinks

Not allowing it in trials/pvp keeps it from being on the very dangerous end of the pay to win spectrum...

Because people who could spend the money on all 10 slots and buy the assistant would be at a competitive advantage over people who can't.

This update does WAY more than DR/Alpha Gear does... in morphing skills/attributes/vampirism (something NO add-on can do)

Malmer

Thevampirenight wrote: »

By the sounds of it they are not going after pc addons. Basically this system is more advanced then the Pc addons, but the reason why its monetarized was actually explained by Rich Lambert a bit.

Because they don't have a mandatory subscription anymore, the monetization is what keeps the lights on the servers. So they have to have so much money and they take stuff like that into consideration. Going back to the mandatory subscription is likely never happening because more players actually are able to play the game and it allowed the game to really take off by removing the requirement.

As for it not being account wide its basically do to differences in class and stuff like that.

This system does more then addons according to Rich, it also saves stuff like morphs and other stuff the addons can't do. So the system is supposed to be overall better. As to why it can't be used in Trials and stuff, my guess is they don't want people minimaxing through various super builds, between different passives and stuff. I don't know on that one.

ok than i can say every console would love a usual dressing room more than that ^^ i mean when it is better then then the swap adddons from pc atm pc doesnt neeeded to botter because there would have it aswell for is it not understandable why there not lock it for trials and arenas i mean u have already with dressingroom superbuilds in vma by bosses look supernaturals world record run his acuity was sometimes still running but the boss was death

Dur2a

Ippokrates wrote: »

Dur2a wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

Well, imagine you are taking speedrun through Sunspire. During Boss fight you will most probably use Relequen but... what if you can clean mobs on the way with, lets say... Azureblight. Yeah, new records on the way

This already happens (albeit different sets) on PC, and it’s a part of why PC holds such dominion over the leaderboards in literally every single piece of content available. It’s actually the whole point behind this thread

I know, but as someone above mentioned, with this decision ZOS is showing how in their opinion game was designed to be played

Right, but it’s flawed logic and shoddy reasoning at best honestly. If the feature exists and has existed without issue on PC for years, then enabling at least some functionality in raids with the built-in system for console is only fair.

Dur2a

tmbrinks wrote: »

Not allowing it in trials/pvp keeps it from being on the very dangerous end of the pay to win spectrum...

Because people who could spend the money on all 10 slots and buy the assistant would be at a competitive advantage over people who can't.

This update does WAY more than DR/Alpha Gear does... in morphing skills/attributes/vampirism (something NO add-on can do)

I mean Necro is consistently one of the most powerful classes in the game, has been since it was released, and remains the only class you have to pay for in order to use it.

Bahsei is the most powerful set in the game for every class right now, and you have to buy the most recent chapter to get it.

Without ESO plus, and with it, you have to pay to have access to every one of the most powerful sets in the game at any given point.

“Pay to win” is built into the nature of the game imo, anyone who says that a base game feature that requires you to make a one-time 5k crown purchase to unlock the full potential of the system is jaded to every other similar situation. And in any case, you can literally trade in-game gold for crowns without breaching the TOS. (Which is what a lot of us are gonna do anyway)

If you want to play competitively in any game, expect to make in-game purchases. It’s the nature of the industry, and it doesn’t change anything in terms of the subject of the post honestly.

Lluanda

What's even the point of it if you can't use the feature in places where it matters? I wished for an option like this for many years, would have happily thrown money at it as well even though it's disappointing that it is a paid thing to begin with. But I literally only want it to use in trials/arena's where I apparently cannot use it 😂. I can take thirty seconds to change loadouts in an overworld situation, though it's not even needed because you can run around naked and be fine there anyway. Typical.

Silver lining is that it'll save me a lot of money I guess.

arun_rajputb16_ESO

In the stream, they made a point to say that if you're inside during a timed or leaderboard event, you can't change. So, during the trials, if we port out before boss and switch loadout, that would work.... I guess. They seemed to stress that.

Lluanda

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

In the stream, they made a point to say that if you're inside during a timed or leaderboard event, you can't change. So, during the trials, if we port out before boss and switch loadout, that would work.... I guess. They seemed to stress that.

But the reason for using it in trials would be to save time switching loadouts between fights. Porting out takes even longer than manually swapping skills and gear like we do now.

VaranisArano

kargen27 wrote: »

Three words. Pay to win. You only get two slots free the others are available in crown store. You know if players are allowed access to more than the two free slots in trials the forums will be filled with pay to win threads.

Not sure why people mention a PC advantage as if the platforms are competing with each other? The game plays different but console players are not missing out on leader board rewards because PC scores are higher. If cross play were ever introduced (I'm for it never happening) then PC add-ons would be an issue.

Part of the problem is that ZOS does the trifecta challenges to challenge the whole playerbase. Those are notably harder on console, especially the speed challenge, due to the inability to swap gear instantly.

If ZOS puts PC and Console on an even footing either by allowing the gear swaps in trials or by removing the addon functionality from trials, then they can better balance for both platforms.

UntilValhalla13

It's frustrating enough that the times for the speed runs in trials are created and assuming people are using external add-ons to begin with. On console, we also aren't able to run and switch gear at the same time. So, if the tanks needed to swap out a set for trash and bosses, they have to literally stop what they're doing and manually switch it piece by piece, then catch up. That adds up when you're trying to push godslayer or something.

While the armory will be a small step, we're still kinda stuck where we are now, in endgame PvE.

kargen27

VaranisArano wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Three words. Pay to win. You only get two slots free the others are available in crown store. You know if players are allowed access to more than the two free slots in trials the forums will be filled with pay to win threads.

Not sure why people mention a PC advantage as if the platforms are competing with each other? The game plays different but console players are not missing out on leader board rewards because PC scores are higher. If cross play were ever introduced (I'm for it never happening) then PC add-ons would be an issue.

Part of the problem is that ZOS does the trifecta challenges to challenge the whole playerbase. Those are notably harder on console, especially the speed challenge, due to the inability to swap gear instantly.

If ZOS puts PC and Console on an even footing either by allowing the gear swaps in trials or by removing the addon functionality from trials, then they can better balance for both platforms.

I understand but you still are not competing with PC players. If ZoS is making getting the trifecta harder because of add-ons and that affects consoles that is wrong. The game needs to be designed around the idea that players will not be using add-ons and players that get those achievements using add-ons do so knowing the achievement is tainted.

LadyLethalla

I agree with loadouts not working in PVP, but in trials...? Although a workaround (if a cumbersome one) could be to travel out to one's house and back in...

trackdemon5512

Dur2a wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

Dur2a wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

Well, imagine you are taking speedrun through Sunspire. During Boss fight you will most probably use Relequen but... what if you can clean mobs on the way with, lets say... Azureblight. Yeah, new records on the way

This already happens (albeit different sets) on PC, and it’s a part of why PC holds such dominion over the leaderboards in literally every single piece of content available. It’s actually the whole point behind this thread

I know, but as someone above mentioned, with this decision ZOS is showing how in their opinion game was designed to be played

Right, but it’s flawed logic and shoddy reasoning at best honestly. If the feature exists and has existed without issue on PC for years, then enabling at least some functionality in raids with the built-in system for console is only fair.

It's best to think of the PC Add-On as more of a hack. Its functionality is on top of ZOS' system but it is in no way officially endorsed or guaranteed to work.

ZOS' Armory System is designed to work across PC, Xbox and PS without issue. It's designed to be used going forward permanently. That's very different than ZOS putting out an update that effectively would break Dressing Room completely. ZOS owes nothing to those players who grew accustomed to the benefits it provided. The same way as it looks like ZOS is circling the wagons to end PCs mat maps with more information on the zone guide screens.

kargen27

Dur2a wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

Dur2a wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

Well, imagine you are taking speedrun through Sunspire. During Boss fight you will most probably use Relequen but... what if you can clean mobs on the way with, lets say... Azureblight. Yeah, new records on the way

This already happens (albeit different sets) on PC, and it’s a part of why PC holds such dominion over the leaderboards in literally every single piece of content available. It’s actually the whole point behind this thread

I know, but as someone above mentioned, with this decision ZOS is showing how in their opinion game was designed to be played

Right, but it’s flawed logic and shoddy reasoning at best honestly. If the feature exists and has existed without issue on PC for years, then enabling at least some functionality in raids with the built-in system for console is only fair.

Add-ons can't be seen as pay to win. Everybody on PC has the ability to use an add-on if they wish with no added cost. because extra slots will only be available in the crown store it creates a very plausible pay to win argument.

jaws343

Honestly the only change from what they've mentioned I'd like to see is the ability to swap in the pre BG loading spot before the march starts. And in your alliance base is cyrodil and Imperial city.

Mostly because, often, you are queuing for these modes while doing PVE activities. So if you forgot to swap prior to accepting the queue pop you end up in the instance without the right gear/skills.

This is fine now because mostly players are likely already geared for pvp and running the pve content. But with this addition it would almost not be entirely useful if it can't be used in a way that actually provides a benefit.