New 21m Test Dummy? (Smaller)

Rezdayn

Would people like a 21m test dummy that is much smaller than the current ones? Something similar in size to the skeleton?

Lady_Galadhiel

Yes (why not, more sizes cant hurt)

Smaller and cheaper would be nice.

thorwyn

[insert "y tho" meme here]

What would be the advantage of a smaller dummy? If you parse, you TAB target the dummy anyways.

Lady_Galadhiel

Yes (why not, more sizes cant hurt)

thorwyn wrote: »

[insert "y tho" meme here]

What would be the advantage of a smaller dummy? If you parse, you TAB target the dummy anyways.

To fit better in smaller homes and not look so massive?

Ippokrates

Well, the larger dummy, the longer orb will be damaging it so more dps for huggers, yay!

trackdemon5512

How about a Dummy that’s actually designed for solo DPS testing?

I don’t dummy test because it’s a literal waste of time hitting a dummy for that long to get a result. I don’t care if some people can get it down in 2 mins, kudos for their high DPS. But for the majority of others trying to hit it for 5, 6, 10 minutes to get a likely inaccurate result is pointless.

DreamyLu

other (leave comment)

That's "Other" for me: I don't mind if it's added but will not purchase/get/use it.

I have the dummy we get as reward from the quest in Clockwork. It nicely decorates a little corner in my garden, but I never ever use it.

For the content I do in this game: good DPS = enough to kill the foes I encounter. Live test, sort of. As is now, I can deal with all foes of the content I touch. No need for numbers. Generally, I have no performance objectives.

spartaxoxo

other (leave comment)

I'm not against them messing about with size per say...but I'd like to see them add ones that are look different to all the different monsters so they can better blend in with different homes.

For example a wall with an archery target could fit into a lot of homes. Or maybe a training mannequin or statue.



If that means some end up with smaller sizes, that's cool by me. But I'd like to see trial dummies look exotic/uncoventional etc rather than just being the big dummies.

Rezdayn

Yes (why not, more sizes cant hurt)

thorwyn wrote: »

[insert "y tho" meme here]

What would be the advantage of a smaller dummy? If you parse, you TAB target the dummy anyways.

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

[insert "y tho" meme here]

What would be the advantage of a smaller dummy? If you parse, you TAB target the dummy anyways.

To fit better in smaller homes and not look so massive?

This. A lot of people want something smaller for their home. I am one of those people.

I just want a much smaller and normal looking test dummy that is 21m with buffs. Even if its only purchasable by crowns etc.

Alienoutlaw

other (leave comment)

be nice to see a dummy that hits back and applies de-buffs/dots/aoe etc etc see those parse monkeys deal with that

SickleCider

Yes (why not, more sizes cant hurt)

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I'm not against them messing about with size per say...but I'd like to see them add ones that are look different to all the different monsters so they can better blend in with different homes.

For example a wall with an archery target could fit into a lot of homes. Or maybe a training mannequin or statue.



If that means some end up with smaller sizes, that's cool by me. But I'd like to see trial dummies look exotic/uncoventional etc rather than just being the big dummies.

I made a suggestion once: a dragon made out of wicker, sacks, buckets, wagon wheels, etc. Smaller than an actual dragon of course, but big enough to say "I am the trial dummy grrr."

DP99

other (leave comment)

DreamyLu wrote: »

That's "Other" for me: I don't mind if it's added but will not purchase/get/use it.

I have the dummy we get as reward from the quest in Clockwork. It nicely decorates a little corner in my garden, but I never ever use it.

For the content I do in this game: good DPS = enough to kill the foes I encounter. Live test, sort of. As is now, I can deal with all foes of the content I touch. No need for numbers. Generally, I have no performance objectives.

Same here, I only hit the guy occasionally because there's a feat in the game to get a certain amount of damage on one. I'm not really actively trying to get the achievement, but since I have it and it's there, I might as well wail on the guy from time to time to eventually unlock the achievement over time some day.

Brenticus12

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

How about a Dummy that’s actually designed for solo DPS testing?

I don’t dummy test because it’s a literal waste of time hitting a dummy for that long to get a result. I don’t care if some people can get it down in 2 mins, kudos for their high DPS. But for the majority of others trying to hit it for 5, 6, 10 minutes to get a likely inaccurate result is pointless.

It's only a waste of time if you don't know how to analyze and use the results you get from it. "Inaccurate result" is only true if you don't know how to apply results from testing conditions to other aspects of the game. That's on you.

There already *is* a dummy for solo dps testing. It's the 3mil and 6mil dummies. Use those. They've been in the game longer than the 21mil dummy has been.

B0SSzombie

Wasn't there an Ogrim dummy Datamined recently? They're not too big.

Nevermind, it's just a 6m Dummy.

Aardappelboom

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

be nice to see a dummy that hits back and applies de-buffs/dots/aoe etc etc see those parse monkeys deal with that

I actually agree for PVP, there are sets with specific procs like "take dmg" it would be nice to have a dummy that can simulate PVP situations to find out more about your chars performance, wouldn't be too hard to implement just make it interactable and apply a few settings.

Checking block or resitance effects for example, among others.

trackdemon5512

Brenticus12 wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

How about a Dummy that’s actually designed for solo DPS testing?

I don’t dummy test because it’s a literal waste of time hitting a dummy for that long to get a result. I don’t care if some people can get it down in 2 mins, kudos for their high DPS. But for the majority of others trying to hit it for 5, 6, 10 minutes to get a likely inaccurate result is pointless.

It's only a waste of time if you don't know how to analyze and use the results you get from it. "Inaccurate result" is only true if you don't know how to apply results from testing conditions to other aspects of the game. That's on you.

There already *is* a dummy for solo dps testing. It's the 3mil and 6mil dummies. Use those. They've been in the game longer than the 21mil dummy has been.

@Brenticus12

I’m on console, like many many others here. I don’t have in-depth data analytics like PC users. I hit my trial dummies and if I’m not crazy high DPS it takes forever to get down.

If I stop early my results are inaccurate. If I complete I just get a final number, not in-depth information. If I’m learning a rotation on console and it takes several minutes to get down a dummy I could theoretically spend hours with little improvement.

The smaller dummies don’t give buffs and as you know DPS tests aren’t standardized with them. I remember the days of having a healer on hand to get best results on a dummy.

80-85% of time spent hitting a dummy on console is doing a rotation over and over until execute. I have to go through that without real analytics for minutes before getting a generalized number that doesn’t really tell me much. It doesn’t tell me uptime on attacks, buffs, etc.

IT’S NOT ON ME FOR INACCURATE RESULTS. The system designed as it is plus the dummies themselves are basically a waste of time for most.

Redesign the dummies. Smaller health, focused for solo testing and buffs, and more native in-depth information returned to the testers. Arguments that the current system work is BS if it’s only so for those looking at combat logs and add-on analytics. That’s not the base system doing what it needs to do.

And as ZOS has seen people don’t mind paying for new dummies if they are cosmetically redesigned. Home owners will gladly fork over for one or even several if they fit a home aesthetic. I know players that bought several of the last limited time trial dummy solely because they looked great in a home and they had no intention of using them.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

How about a Dummy that’s actually designed for solo DPS testing?

I don’t dummy test because it’s a literal waste of time hitting a dummy for that long to get a result. I don’t care if some people can get it down in 2 mins, kudos for their high DPS. But for the majority of others trying to hit it for 5, 6, 10 minutes to get a likely inaccurate result is pointless.

I do get the desire for a raid dummy with a little less health. However, if you go much lower than 21 mil, then it will become meaningless for meta DPS, because they would kill it so fast that you would really start to inflate the numbers if the TTK is so fast that you can fully script a rotation. For a true test of raid DPS, it is in a pretty good spot. It allows for a true opening, a long enough period for your basic rotation, and an execute phase that needs properly managed.

That said, there is nothing inherently inaccurate about your parse whether it takes you 5 or 15 minutes to kill. Low DPS does not equal inaccurate DPS.

I would not be opposed to raid dummies in all shapes and sizes. I would not be opposed to a raid dummy with say 10 million health to let people practice a little easier, but I doubt any guild would use it for benchmark purposes.

I would personally like something in the 5-10 mil range with standard trial boss resists, major breach, and minor magic steal or equivalent (basically our current 6 mil with ele drain already applied). That would be pretty useful for practice and 4-man/solo work.

trackdemon5512

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

How about a Dummy that’s actually designed for solo DPS testing?

I don’t dummy test because it’s a literal waste of time hitting a dummy for that long to get a result. I don’t care if some people can get it down in 2 mins, kudos for their high DPS. But for the majority of others trying to hit it for 5, 6, 10 minutes to get a likely inaccurate result is pointless.

I do get the desire for a raid dummy with a little less health. However, if you go much lower than 21 mil, then it will become meaningless for meta DPS, because they would kill it so fast that you would really start to inflate the numbers if the TTK is so fast that you can fully script a rotation. For a true test of raid DPS, it is in a pretty good spot. It allows for a true opening, a long enough period for your basic rotation, and an execute phase that needs properly managed.

That said, there is nothing inherently inaccurate about your parse whether it takes you 5 or 15 minutes to kill. Low DPS does not equal inaccurate DPS.

I would not be opposed to raid dummies in all shapes and sizes. I would not be opposed to a raid dummy with say 10 million health to let people practice a little easier, but I doubt any guild would use it for benchmark purposes.

I would personally like something in the 5-10 mil range with standard trial boss resists, major breach, and minor magic steal or equivalent (basically our current 6 mil with ele drain already applied). That would be pretty useful for practice and 4-man/solo work.

The longer it takes to take down a dummy, the more that DPS numbers can skew from what they should be, esp on console.

ZOS puts out 1 trial a year, maybe an additional arena. Meanwhile there are 4 dungeons, a ton of PVE single player content. And while most older trials have stack and burn components the vast majority of content isn't single target focused. Particularly newer content focuses on moving about, switching targets, and not needing minutes of DPS test type burn.

Furthermore, if you want to hump a dummy meant for trial groups you can already. There are several available ones with buffs and without. But that dummy testing caters to a smaller segment of the total population and doesn't really help those that are beginner or intermediate DPS.

A lower health dummy with buffs simply solves that issue, creates a bridge for advancement, and allows players to better understand what they're doing wrong versus smacking a wall for several minutes and coming out of it with just a low number result.

spartaxoxo

other (leave comment)

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

The longer it takes to take down a dummy, the more that DPS numbers can skew from what they should be, esp on console.

Absolutely not the case at all. The more data you have the more accurate your results are, smaller health dummies are more prone to being skewed by peaks and valleys.

If your dps plummets on a higher health dummy, you may have issues with your sustain. You can ask someone to review your parse for you to help you get your number up on console.

Amottica

Ippokrates wrote: »

Well, the larger dummy, the longer orb will be damaging it so more dps for huggers, yay!

This would be determined by the hitbox, not the size of the dummy. Some bosses have larger hitboxes than their visual form and Zenimax can obviously do the same with DPS dummies.

Whisp Mother in AA is a great example of a boss with a significantly larger hitbox than their visual form. You can stand far away and still use melee attacks.

trackdemon5512

spartaxoxo wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

The longer it takes to take down a dummy, the more that DPS numbers can skew from what they should be, esp on console.

Absolutely not the case at all. The more data you have the more accurate your results are, smaller health dummies are more prone to being skewed by peaks and valleys.

If your dps plummets on a higher health dummy, you may have issues with your sustain. You can ask someone to review your parse for you to help you get your number up on console.

I want to get away from the “can someone else review this” and have the system do what it’s supposed to do.

Everytime I look at damage weaving for this game and maxing DPS I think of the Street Fighter games. Those games have dedicated training modes that show what your inputs are, help you understand timing, teach you combos, and break everything down into segments. Furthermore, when you practice on a dummy the game itself provides you a wealth of information upfront so that you can improve.

ESO doesn’t do that. Combat logs are a PC only tool that’s basically half baked as it hasn’t been properly integrated into normal play like combat timers finally has for both PC and Console.

ESO would be better served with a smaller combat dummy with details to help out players than continuing as it has.

kargen27

How's this for a rotten idea? They could put dummy skins in the antiquity system. Do it like mythic items. Once you get all the components for a skin you go purchase your dummy of choice and the skin is applied.

LalMirchi

I would like a training dummy that fights back like the Titan in the new tutorial.

Rezdayn

Yes (why not, more sizes cant hurt)

Im amazed 27% of people would be fine with 60% of people not getting a smaller test dummy. I dont see how it could impact the 27% at all but yet they still are not cool with it. Anyways...

spartaxoxo

other (leave comment)

Rezdayn wrote: »

Im amazed 27% of people would be fine with 60% of people not getting a smaller test dummy. I dont see how it could impact the 27% at all but yet they still are not cool with it. Anyways...

I mean, you asked people if they want one or not. The question was not whether or not they'd be mad if a smaller one was put into the game. You can't assume that because 27% of people don't want smaller dummies that means they don't want the other 60% to have it. Different people have different tastes is all that poll shows.

Rezdayn

Yes (why not, more sizes cant hurt)

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Rezdayn wrote: »

Im amazed 27% of people would be fine with 60% of people not getting a smaller test dummy. I dont see how it could impact the 27% at all but yet they still are not cool with it. Anyways...

I mean, you asked people if they want one or not. The question was not whether or not they'd be mad if a smaller one was put into the game. You can't assume that because 27% of people don't want smaller dummies that means they don't want the other 60% to have it. Different people have different tastes is all that poll shows.

Fair point. I thought people would understand it was a "yes that would be good, I want one or could see why others would want it" or "no I dont want them in the game regardless of if I would use them or others want them".

However what you said is a fair point.

I kind of approached it like pvp topics. Some people ask if we should have x y or z game modes and even though I wouldnt really play them I always say yes if I think other people would enjoy it.

Once again though. Fair point.