Yet another thread about the new sets in PVP

Arbiter7070

Initially I was very excited to see how the meta would shift based on these new sets in PVP. All of these sets were clearly created to counter certain mechanics in the game. Dark convergence counters stacking, Hrothgar was the clear answer to the high resist stacking meta, and Plaguebreak was to counter the purge spamming. The disgust I felt when stepping into PVP the first day these sets were introduced was indescribable though. After having about a week with these new sets, one thing has became clear to me. They are FAR overtuned. Base proc values on these sets seem to be much higher than most other procs in this game, making the point of having to get 6.5k weapon or spell dmg to reach the maximum value irrelevant. Heck, one of the procs requires NO scaling on your part and in fact scales based on your opponents resistances. Playing extensively during the Blackwood patch, besides the Vate two hander, and stamsorc one shot builds, procs weren't that big of thing. I feel like in the Blackwood patch, ZOS corrected many errors in the game but just basically reintroduced them this patch. The Blackwood patch needed some minor adjustments for sure. Damage was bit high but overall I believe the game felt good for the first time in a long time. No more tanks running all procs with Malacath. You had unique builds and you actually had to sacrifice things in your build for certain things. Now the meta is clear. You slap on ANY combination of the new proc sets. Hrothgar + Thundercaller, Hrothgar + Dark Covnergence, Plaguebreaker + Dark Convergence etc. The proc meta is BACK and in full force. We are getting sets that give so much free damage, it's not even worth running stats again. Sets like Dark Convergence are making it easy to wipe groups with the press of one button. For instance lets look at a harmony necro. Traditionally this combination of blastbones, graverobber and colossus/dawnbreaker is very difficult to pull off and requires quite a lot of skill, timing and patience. This set throws that out the window. Anyone can throw on this set and hit bombs easily. To me this patch feels like a good lesson to ZOS. Do not use sets to balance your game or counter broken mechanics. Maybe try actually fixing the mechanics in the first place instead of introducing a bunch of ill-advised and overtuned sets in this game that for me and many others have ruined the gameplay.

CharlieFreak

Yep. Insightful post, especially the bit about balancing the game using sets. I do like the idea of what they were trying to accomplish, but these sets seem to be the ONLY option now because the damage is so amazing and effortless.

Apparently, every single person has some combination of these sets by now. I think yesterday in 5 or 6 hours of pvp I had one deathcap that didn't include multiple giant procs from hrothgar/plague/convergence.

I don't see a lot of complaints about Plaguebreak, but that seems equally broken, just not as common. Playing magplar yesterday I got into a fight with two guys that seemed to be going well until I decided to purge with Ritual. I had so much stuff loaded up on me I wasn't even sure if Plague carrier was one of them in the heat of the moment, so I purged and got slammed with 19k damage as punishment. Looking at the tooltip, that doesn't even make sense at all.

I feel confident that the developers didn't intend these sets to do such obscene damage. Clearly bugged. Hopefully they'll sort it out soon.

auz

Lol. Pretty sure "balance via procs" is written in large letters at the zos office. They didn't learn any of the other times they tried to balance the game with procs. I don't see why that would change. Just enjoy these procs until the next lot come out.
Remember when heaps of people complained that no proc ruined build variety? Lol.

TimeDazzler

There's a New World coming later this month if you know what I mean

AngryOldMan

The pull needs adjusting. It is pulling players from walls during defence siege, and i think it is not intended, but a side effect of the sets mechanics. The sets also need more possibilities to be countered. Now im roll dodging from one pull straight in to another pull cause everyone is putting down alot of AOE. I dont want to make a permablock build just to be able to survive the sets

Sluggy

Plaguebreak is the one that worries me the most as it CLEARLY was not thought through from a multiplayer standpoint. It's the only one where an opponent can have a teammate log on to the opposing faction and safely enable their comrades to blow up large groups due to no fault of said group.

That being said, there were CLEAR indications that Dark Convergence wasn't working well even in their internal tests. They had to break the rules just to get things to work. When you have to circumvent the mechanics of the game to make something work I'd say that's a pretty good indication that the idea needs to be scrapped and a new one thought up. But here's some free advice from a fellow dev - if you aren't/can't allow Dark Convergence to apply CC immunity then at least allow it to provide immunity from itself for the same amount of time! No one wants to roll dodge from one convergence to another just to be blown up on the fourth escape attempt.

EDIT: Also I guess Dark Convergence is allowing cheating currently too. Saw a scroll get stolen yesterday from an unsieged keep because someone pulled an enemy inside the keep walls using DC. Also saw the hammer wielder get pulled through a wall during a siege where they were cutoff from their allies and left to die a miserable fate.

neferpitou73

CharlieFreak wrote: »

Yep. Insightful post, especially the bit about balancing the game using sets. I do like the idea of what they were trying to accomplish, but these sets seem to be the ONLY option now because the damage is so amazing and effortless.

Apparently, every single person has some combination of these sets by now. I think yesterday in 5 or 6 hours of pvp I had one deathcap that didn't include multiple giant procs from hrothgar/plague/convergence.

I don't see a lot of complaints about Plaguebreak, but that seems equally broken, just not as common. Playing magplar yesterday I got into a fight with two guys that seemed to be going well until I decided to purge with Ritual. I had so much stuff loaded up on me I wasn't even sure if Plague carrier was one of them in the heat of the moment, so I purged and got slammed with 19k damage as punishment. Looking at the tooltip, that doesn't even make sense at all.

I feel confident that the developers didn't intend these sets to do such obscene damage. Clearly bugged. Hopefully they'll sort it out soon.

You don't see a lot of complaints about Plaguebreak because once people saw how ridiculously OP it was ball groups just stopped purging so it became useless (now most of the good ones just out-heal it or just exclusively farm scrolls, at least from what I've seen). We ran purgers this Friday in my group and didn't get a single proc.

Sluggy

neferpitou73 wrote: »

You don't see a lot of complaints about Plaguebreak because once people saw how ridiculously OP it was ball groups just stopped purging so it became useless (now most of the good ones just out-heal it or just exclusively farm scrolls, at least from what I've seen). We ran purgers this Friday in my group and didn't get a single proc.

Yeah, I haven't stopped running netch on my Warden as I have yet to see a single instance of the set proc. But the thought is in the back of my head at all times. I guess in that sense the set actually achieved what it was supposed to? An awareness of what dangers await those that purge needlessly. That being said, it's still borked in concept. The potential to cheat is all the reason needed to remove or rework it. And I'm saying this as a person that runs a DoT build that might actually function again due to the existence of such a set!

CharlieFreak

Sluggy wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

You don't see a lot of complaints about Plaguebreak because once people saw how ridiculously OP it was ball groups just stopped purging so it became useless (now most of the good ones just out-heal it or just exclusively farm scrolls, at least from what I've seen). We ran purgers this Friday in my group and didn't get a single proc.

Yeah, I haven't stopped running netch on my Warden as I have yet to see a single instance of the set proc. But the thought is in the back of my head at all times. I guess in that sense the set actually achieved what it was supposed to? An awareness of what dangers await those that purge needlessly. That being said, it's still borked in concept. The potential to cheat is all the reason needed to remove or rework it. And I'm saying this as a person that runs a DoT build that might actually function again due to the existence of such a set!

I've seen it quite a few times now. Clearly not as often as the others. Once you've seen it, the effect is quite obvious and you'll know not to purge (templar). Of course on Warden it's not that simple with Netch. The problem on templar is that I cannot prevent anyone else nearby from using my synergy and I get punished for that.

Honestly I'm fine with it. The purge spamming was ridiculous. I just think the damage is randomly extreme sometimes if someone purges with that effect on them.