Please share why you/your guild isn’t playing the new Ravenwatch no proc/hammer/cp campaign?

Emperor_ManBearPig

With the introduction to the new cheese mode proc sets recently introduced (Hrothgar/dark convergence/plague break) I’m hoping to start a discussion to hear why other players and their guilds chose to not play on new rule set change Ravenwatch?

Is your guild contemplating playing there until the sets get nerfed?
Are you just going to stick it out in Gray Host/Blackreach in hopes the sets get nerfed soon?
Just quit PvP and not play until they are fixed?

Apparently ZoS research showed them that there was a demand for this rule set, however, the recent population for Ravenwatch would say otherwise. IMO, sets like Syvarras and Crimson needed a nerf. I think the proc scaling changes ZoS made balanced/nerfed proc sets so they were no longer and issue and the no proc set campaign Ravenwatch wasn’t necessary. It was a good idea before the proc scaling, but I feel like most players I have talked to would agree the scaling fixed the major issues.

However, fast forward to the current meta. The new proc sets are like proc set cancer 2.0 and take no skill to run.

Thoughts??

ResidentContrarian

Because the campaign is still unbalanced anyway. Classes are also unbalanced.

Might as well be in the campaign without build restrictions.

Qrähe

Emperor_ManBearPig wrote: »

With the introduction to the new cheese mode proc sets recently introduced (Hrothgar/dark convergence/plague break) I’m hoping to start a discussion to hear why other players and their guilds chose to not play on new rule set change Ravenwatch?

Is your guild contemplating playing there until the sets get nerfed?
Are you just going to stick it out in Gray Host/Blackreach in hopes the sets get nerfed soon?
Just quit PvP and not play until they are fixed?

Apparently ZoS research showed them that there was a demand for this rule set, however, the recent population for Ravenwatch would say otherwise. IMO, sets like Syvarras and Crimson needed a nerf. I think the proc scaling changes ZoS made balanced/nerfed proc sets so they were no longer and issue and the no proc set campaign Ravenwatch wasn’t necessary. It was a good idea before the proc scaling, but I feel like most players I have talked to would agree the scaling fixed the major issues.

However, fast forward to the current meta. The new proc sets are like proc set cancer 2.0 and take no skill to run.

Thoughts??

There's an event going on, pretty much I see all the Ravenwatch guilds, but in IC, sans the few who were predictably going to dissappear when the sets couldn't cover for their skills.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

@Emperor_ManBearPig

I'm not really interested to play on a campaign where almost all of the sets I've farmed and acquired from chapters which I've purchased are disabled. ZOS has a habit of disabling all their PVP content, first it was mercenaries, then camps for a while, then destructible resource towers, now the hammer and half their sets. Not really interested to supporting this action.

I might play there if I feel like a change but it certainly wouldn't be my main choice.

YandereGirlfriend

I was fully prepared to abandon Ravenwatch when the first PTS notes were posted but two important considerations emerged that swayed me back in the other direction:

1. The set list in Ravenwatch is far more permissive than it was during the original test period. Not only are more sets on the official list (which is still a strange list - full of sets that should not be there and also missing many more that should) but testing confirmed that there are even more sets working that are not on the official list. I'll still miss some of my stat-based "proc" favorites but Ravenwatch provides enough set variety to make builds interesting again.

2. The new PvP sets are toxic beyond belief and are warping the gameplay of the CP campaigns. I still think that Dark Convergence is an awesome set idea (strip the damage, fix the bugs, and restore the 20-second cooldown) but it's so buggy, overtuned, and easy to use that it's become the Noob Tube of PvP. Similarly, Hrothgar is clearly not working as intended and has been of a dubious design all along (an anti-tank set should deal high single-target damage rather than being AoE). Plaguebreak is another interesting set idea but it was clearly not well though-through before implementation (e.g. to account for situations like the Warden's sustain skill setting it off passively) and it is also crazily overtuned.

3. Bonus reason - CP and all of its free stat goodies are fundamentally lame. Playing there has reminded me of what I like about Ravenwatch.

As for the original topic, I'm optimistic that guilds will return to Ravenwatch for the next campaign cycle. A bunch homed Blackreach before the extent of this patch's toxicity were known and they will probably stick with it until its conclusion. But after that... hopefully Ravenwatch will become a campaign with a queue again!

WaywardArgonian

Save for my occasional trip there to kill time, I won't go back to Ravenwatch because I'm simply enjoying Gray Host too much. I also disliked the no proc environment during the initial testing, as I felt it was too restrictive and highlighted new balance issues that made entire classes and playstyles less worthwhile, or not worth it at all. Just my view on it.

Kartalin

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

... hopefully Ravenwatch will become a campaign with a queue again!

That would be very nice, but let's not get too far ahead of ourselves... Just like when BDO came out, NW is going to steal some ESO players for a little while or for a long time, PVPers especially have been eyeing the horizon for greener pastures for many years.

I do hope Ravenwatch will at least be able to maintain a stable, balanced population when things settle. For a long time it seems like different factions have different hours of the day that they dominate the campaign and essentially take turns doing so. If we could at least get back to competitive prime time, 3 bars for each faction, I think that would be incredible.

xDeusEJRx

I'm not playing the new no cp no proc campaign because it's not on console yet. We're stuck in the Blackwood void

manny254

I think people are missing that the non-CP campaign is meant to be for new players. If you have tons of proc sets and high CP, you are not the target audience for this campaign.

YandereGirlfriend

manny254 wrote: »

I think people are missing that the non-CP campaign is meant to be for new players. If you have tons of proc sets and high CP, you are not the target audience for this campaign.

That might be ZOS' conception but in practice Ravenwatch has always had a great many highly skilled players and groups homing it.

Players come for their own reasons, be that an escape from Grey Host lag, a belief that CP is lame/cheese or because they are actually low CP (though these can be console transfers who also tend to be highly skilled) and/or a new player.

None of it really matters though because anyone can play there and if enough skilled players want shelter from the current toxic barrage then the campaign will become what those players make it into.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Truth is most players are noobs and want proc sets and cp to carry them. No I won't take back what I said, its the truth and you either accept it or live in denial. They whined on the forums for years about proc sets and once they finally get what they want they play on the proc campaign, lmao. Turns out they were just bad and "muh procs" was just an excuse. Now the cope is "they didn't implement it right!!1111". They don't want to play with less crutches, simple as.

I want a campaign where there is no cp, no procs, and standard issue gear. You log into the campaign for the first time and you get given a heavy, medium, or light gear set with flat stats on it that cannot be upgraded or enchanted. You also get two weapons of your choice. You can only bring your skills, no grinding for gear or cp will give you a boost in this campaign. Would be much easier to balance when all the outside boosts get stripped away and you only have to focus on class balance.

Even the big streamer who whined for an entire chapter about how OP procs were(while using three proc sets) left to go to the proc campaign. LMAO holy [snip] im dead. My sides have asploded. This streamer was literally lobbying to get them nerfed and goes to the proc campaign when they get their way. [snip] "MUH PROCS" was just an after death excuse taken too far. Raven watch destroyed over too much recap screen salt! HAHAHAHAA

[edited for profanity bypass]

Zabagad

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I was fully prepared to abandon Ravenwatch when the first PTS notes were posted but two important considerations emerged that swayed me back in the other direction:
...

I agreed to a lot of your posts during the PTS cycle and I agree again on your post

I was really pi..ed that they took Ravenwatch as the new NoProc campaign and I was not happy to learn CP2.0 too, so I gave Raven a try and I'm surprisingly happy with the current state.
So I agree again on all points and would only add:

4) Lag on PC EU is significant better (at least for me and some ppl I spoke to) then during U30.
Maybe it's only because ballgroups are not that much present - I don't know - I just enjoy it

LarsS

The new multicore option is a substantial improvement for many players.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

LarsS wrote: »

The new multicore option is a substantial improvement for many players.

Can confirm.
I now crash in game before experiencing lag, desyncs, slow bug and stacking debuffs for 49000 days. The new option really helped improve my gameplay experience.

spacefracking

Cuz half the reason I play is for the various people who haunt alliance locked, and I'm stubborn. I've had enough dark convergence though. Time to dust off the sets from a couple meta's ago, and figure out how the new sets have modified it

See you there

Joy_Division

Mostly because there's no direction for PvP, which there cant be because there is no full time PVP developer.

Instead of adding content and giving us a common ruleset, they're content to remove parts of the game in some campaigns (while at the same time trying to balance all these different rulesets simultaneously) as "updates", even though it's clear as day these are very divisive.

If you see a vibrant future in such a formula, you are a very optimistic person. There is no stability, no plan going forward; why invest time, energy, and effort?

I mean, they know purge is a problem so the solution given to us is to implement a set that blows you up for 35k if you use you Betty Netch skill ... but on the other campaign ban the set so people can still purge spam?

I dont think you need a thread asking why people have opted to do something other than play ESO PvP.

NotTaylorSwift

Joy_Division wrote: »

Mostly because there's no direction for PvP, which there cant be because there is no full time PVP developer.

This is the sad thing. I really cannot think of a reason as to why they do not have one. The pvp in eso has so much potential yet they completely neglect it. Most likely, imo, due to the ‘low’ population of pvpers. But really, it is just common sense that if they invested more into pvp then so many more people would play it.

They could do so much with it. Dynamic events/spawns in cyrodiil, better rewards, update the map somehow idk… yet it has been mostly the same since the game released… There is literally no incentive for people to even play pvp. And the fact that cyrodiil is so outdated compared to other content, as well as the poor balancing and general state of pvp rn, only turns people away. Invest more and more people would play it. Simple.

NeillMcAttack

I was an avid Ravenwatch player, and it is still where I would prefer to play in fairness. So for me, it isn’t that I quit ravenwatch, I simply stopped playing all together.
This patch showed me that ZOS have zero direction, as joy mentioned above, they are just reacting, they don’t show much in the way of an actual plan, they wanted to nerf ball groups, they made stacking detrimental by introducing clearly OP gear sets, but only in half of PvP!! And there are many sets that do in fact work in Ravenwatch that were never mentioned, I can only guess that Zeni themselves don’t know the list of sets that function therein.
They spoke of giving all skills a pass so as to make them more performant going forward (this was mentioned around the time they decided to carry out the Cyro tests), this patch they addressed stealth and cloak, only about 100 more quarterly patches to go then I guess!!?

It’s not enough, they don’t do balance patches enough, they don’t address bugs enough, it is miles away from where it wishes it could be, and they will never change their methods. Cyro will never be the same. ZOS made some crazy decisions around update 25 making Cyro unplayable with any amount of population, lied and said they were to remove desync issues with block and the rest is just reacting and a kind or performance piece to make people think it will ever work the same again.

As a massive fan of Cyro in the past, this is just how I see things now unfortunately.

WaywardArgonian

Joy_Division wrote: »

Instead of adding content and giving us a common ruleset, they're content to remove parts of the game in some campaigns (while at the same time trying to balance all these different rulesets simultaneously) as "updates", even though it's clear as day these are very divisive.

This is the major issue that does not get addressed enough. For years, ZOS have struggled to balance PVP, so regardless of whether or not you enjoy no-proc gameplay, where does adding yet another ruleset to the equation fit in the solution to that problem?

During the initial no-proc testing, it was obvious that this new ruleset had a big impact on class (im)balance, so what are the hopes of finding a balance between the classes when they now have to balance them for the following areas of the game:
1. PVE
2. CP Proc PVP (Gray Host, Blackreach CP IC)
3. No-CP Proc PVP (Battlegrounds, No-CP IC)
4. No-CP, No-Proc PVP (Ravenwatch)

It's just too much of this point, and that they made this decision because some players liked it without considering the larger implications doesn't bode well for the future.

NagualV

Just my two cents

I dont know if I'm in the minority or not, but I really like the no cp no proc format. As others have said, the list of sets is not as restricted as it was during the first test(I enjoyed that test also). I like the feeling of the combat more.

I also dont dislike proc sets, and I'm not against them. In fact, grayhost has been my home campaign forever. But since I enjoyed the first test, and I prefer stat setups, I was looking forward to the new raven watch campaign. CP doesnt matter to me one way or another, you just build for no cp, no biggie. I know a lot of people who mained that campaign(ravenwatch) seem to have not liked the decision, and again I dont know if I'm in the minority, but I was looking forward to it.

But now, at least for the moment, the issue for me is population! Grayhost was 3 bars with a queue this weekend, and in ravenwatch it was mostly 1 bar.

So now, in the campaign I prefer to play in it's hard to find fights. And the one I prefer not to play in is where all the fights are at!

Ultimately, if ravenwatch has a good population, I will play that campaign. but I wont stick around if its low population and there are no fights. In that case, I'll just play grayhost.

SimonThesis

Unfortunately a lot of pvp guilds aren't playing the game at all. The Performance has only gotten worse every patch and the bugs aren't ever getting fixed.

CSose

Joy_Division wrote: »

Mostly because there's no direction for PvP, which there cant be because there is no full time PVP developer.

Instead of adding content and giving us a common ruleset, they're content to remove parts of the game in some campaigns (while at the same time trying to balance all these different rulesets simultaneously) as "updates", even though it's clear as day these are very divisive.

If you see a vibrant future in such a formula, you are a very optimistic person. There is no stability, no plan going forward; why invest time, energy, and effort?

I mean, they know purge is a problem so the solution given to us is to implement a set that blows you up for 35k if you use you Betty Netch skill ... but on the other campaign ban the set so people can still purge spam?

I dont think you need a thread asking why people have opted to do something other than play ESO PvP.

Is there a part time PvP developer that you know of? Because it seems like they don't really work on anything PvP related for years now. I view the new PvP sets as throwing a stick into the spokes of a moving bicycle in more ways than one.

SirAndy

Emperor_ManBearPig wrote: »

Please share why you/your guild isn’t playing the new Ravenwatch no proc/hammer/cp campaign?

Meh ...

Alchimiste1

Because the skill ceiling has hit rock bottom. Its not even fun to kill people with the new sets after a while

YandereGirlfriend

Ravenwatch was actually really enjoyable tonight.

It definitely needs more EP players though. And for more of its high-tier guilds to return home, which I hope will happen when the campaign resets next week.

sandblack

PC eu has alot of action during primetime.. during the dead hours it is dead - ofcourse.

I am enjoying the hell out of no proc cyro.

MasterSpatula

My guild doesn't have nearly enough people willing to give up all the cheese.

But when I PVP solo, I'm going to Ravenwatch these days, cause I can't stand the cheese anymore.

sandblack

This is a question that makes it seem like people aren't playing the campaign btw.
We are.

People are. It's less laggy, less ballgroups because like that "ballgroup-guy" that made a forum post a few days ago wrote they make optimised setups that buff eachother. This may not be possible except for the usual class/skillsetups.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

You know what, I gave it my fairest attempt and ravenwatch is just not fun anymore. I remember no cp used to be where you would go if you wanted faster ttk and didn't want fights that lasted for minutes straight, but that just isn't ravenwatch anymore. Its not Zos, the new rules, or even the low population that killed it for me. Its the dang players that are still playing on ravenwatch that killed it for me. 90% of the people remaining are playing sword n board and its making fights very boring and they last too long.

The average fight is me attacking someone and then they hold block and spam heals until I stop trying. After I stop they suddenly gain the courage to attack me, but at that point I have just given up and leave the turtle hanging. Its not ravenwatch anymore, its turtlewatch. You would think that without proc sets that people would have tried to play more offensively, but nah its all tanks. They are just too afraid of dying or they forgot how to survive without being a tank. Oh I forgot to mention that no one plays solo anymore, so you have to fight an entire team of turtles if you want to fight at all. Idk if cp campaigns are any better, but if I can handle the OP proc sets I can't see it being any worse.

lolo_01b16_ESO

I like to play in an environment where I know what my enemy can and can't do. This includes knowing which sets he can use.

Has a correct list of all working sets finally been released yet?

etchedpixels

As very much a newb to serious PVP I'm really enjoying the noCP campaign. It's much much nicer for newer players than the proc set mess because you have a chance to learn skills and techniques. One problem with proc set cyrodiil is that the experience is basically 'look an enemy, boom, death recap' which means you can't actually learn to play there because you have no time to even experiment and use a skill before you are dead and dead and dead and dead again, or you are in a group of 30 fighting an unkillable sorc for an hour.,

In noCP (some Nightblades aside) you have time to try a few things before you die, and to learn more about positioning and dodging/shielding and get better.

The ball groups are also a lot less toxic because when someone drops negate on them it's a much fairer fight - that's a general issue too - negate ought to block proc sets working in CP IMHO.