Guilds leaving Cyrodiil PvP en masse

adirondack

Whether intentional or not, many guilds are leaving organized group PvP in Cyrodiil at an alarming rate. I am aware of four guilds who have left just this week. I'm sure there isn't just one factor - we could list several:

(1) New World impending release
(2) the new anti-zerg sets
(3) multiple unresolved performance issues
(4) crashing becoming more frequent
(5) lack of any improvement or adjustment to cyrodiil gameplay
(6) overall boredom

My goal posting is not to argue whether the 'year of performance' was successful or not; not to discuss the benefit/value of the new proc sets; or even to add yet another comment about NW. Just awareness to the general PvP community that guilds are leaving. For those of us who are staying on ESO pvp, we will have to adapt. Maybe we won't miss the guilds and players who are leaving, but I suspect we will.

Maybe Zenimax will be interested in knowing this as well. I hope so.

Kwoung

What server are you referring to, as on PCGH, there really aren't that many "guilds" running organized groups, and I still see the same ones daily and had a queue of 40 to get in last night on my own faction, so haven't seen this trend on the largest NA server at least.

And quite honestly, your entire post really points to crappy guild leadership more than a game issue. "Guilds" don't do anything, players do. If some guild leader is telling his/her members to not PVP anymore, that is just messed up, if they are actively ranting about it in their own guild chat and stirring everyone up to the point they get negative about it as well, that is even more messed up. I personally do not enjoy dungeons or trials, but I would never trash talk doing them and screw up my guild members who enjoy those activities. I do the exact opposite in fact, support my guild members doing those activities, and have found officers who enjoy leading them. When those officers are taking a break or burn out, we find new people who are still excited about it to take up the lead, so our guild members can have the best experience in game they can.

If some self absorbed guild leadership is ruining their members game just because they have a personal issue with some changes, well as I said, that is just really messed up and horrible leadership. I can guarantee that not everyone in that guild who PVP's felt the same way as that leader.

EdmondDontes

Kwoung wrote: »

What server are you referring to, as on PCGH, there really aren't that many "guilds" running organized groups, and I still see the same ones daily and had a queue of 40 to get in last night on my own faction, so haven't seen this trend on the largest NA server at least.

And quite honestly, your entire post really points to crappy guild leadership more than a game issue. "Guilds" don't do anything, players do. If some guild leader is telling his/her members to not PVP anymore, that is just messed up, if they are actively ranting about it in their own guild chat and stirring everyone up to the point they get negative about it as well, that is even more messed up. I personally do not enjoy dungeons or trials, but I would never trash talk doing them and screw up my guild members who enjoy those activities. I do the exact opposite in fact, support my guild members doing those activities, and have found officers who enjoy leading them. When those officers are taking a break or burn out, we find new people who are still excited about it to take up the lead, so our guild members can have the best experience in game they can.

If some self absorbed guild leadership is ruining their members game just because they have a personal issue with some changes, well as I said, that is just really messed up and horrible leadership. I can guarantee that not everyone in that guild who PVP's felt the same way as that leader.

Perennial performance issues are why 70-80% of my friends list have left the game or radically reduced their playing time. It's not bad guild leadership. It's been happening for over two years now. It's not a new trend.

Karm1cOne

Guilds leaving is a major issue. Even if you don't pvp in a guild, the loss of these long time guilds and players is a big deal. I haven't seen a loss of experienced pvpers this big since morrowind.

Reverb

I’ve seen more guilds and players leave ESO over the years than I can count. I can’t think of a single pvp guild that was well known in 2014 that’s still active. As always, new guilds and pugleaders will emerge, and cyrodiil will keep on going.

At some point I’m sure the population will drop to IC levels with only a few remaining, but I honestly don’t think it’s happening any time soon.

Kwoung

Reverb wrote: »

I’ve seen more guilds and players leave ESO over the years than I can count. I can’t think of a single pvp guild that was well known in 2014 that’s still active. As always, new guilds and pugleaders will emerge, and cyrodiil will keep on going.

At some point I’m sure the population will drop to IC levels with only a few remaining, but I honestly don’t think it’s happening any time soon.

Agree, I have played ESO a long time, but only PVP for the last couple years. In that time I have seen many a PVP guild just disappear or dwindle into insignificance, but as many or more new groups/guilds show up out of the blue. Yes some people PVP because they simply like PVP, but for others, like housing, it is an end-game activity to partake of because everything else got boring and stale. So basically, those players already had one foot out the door so to speak, and many are actively looking for an excuse to break free of their ESO "habit" and find something new elsewhere.

Personally, I think Amazons game next month will drag quite a lot of people away from pretty much all existing MMO's, not because of any broken mechanics, lag or whatnot in any of them, but simply because people have had to play them for so many years with few to no alternative options available otherwise. Whether NW keeps those players, pretty much depends on how fun and interesting their game will be. So yes, there will be a mass exodus, at least for a short while when it releases, but not for any reason other than players wanting/needing something new to play that is actually worth playing... and not just some indy sandbox MMO.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Kwoung wrote: »

What server are you referring to, as on PCGH, there really aren't that many "guilds" running organized groups, and I still see the same ones daily and had a queue of 40 to get in last night on my own faction, so haven't seen this trend on the largest NA server at least.

And quite honestly, your entire post really points to crappy guild leadership more than a game issue. "Guilds" don't do anything, players do. If some guild leader is telling his/her members to not PVP anymore, that is just messed up, if they are actively ranting about it in their own guild chat and stirring everyone up to the point they get negative about it as well, that is even more messed up. I personally do not enjoy dungeons or trials, but I would never trash talk doing them and screw up my guild members who enjoy those activities. I do the exact opposite in fact, support my guild members doing those activities, and have found officers who enjoy leading them. When those officers are taking a break or burn out, we find new people who are still excited about it to take up the lead, so our guild members can have the best experience in game they can.

If some self absorbed guild leadership is ruining their members game just because they have a personal issue with some changes, well as I said, that is just really messed up and horrible leadership. I can guarantee that not everyone in that guild who PVP's felt the same way as that leader.

We're not one of the guilds listed there (I'd actually be interested in who's left as Ive only played once last week) but I can 100% say a lot of members only log in to raid and that's it on both NA and EU. Therefore if the raids stop because the lead and guild is bored /frustrated those players also 'quit'. So it's less the lead saying "oh you shouldn't play too" and more the fact that raiding is the only partially enjoyable thing for a lot of ppl who play.

Kwoung

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

What server are you referring to, as on PCGH, there really aren't that many "guilds" running organized groups, and I still see the same ones daily and had a queue of 40 to get in last night on my own faction, so haven't seen this trend on the largest NA server at least.

And quite honestly, your entire post really points to crappy guild leadership more than a game issue. "Guilds" don't do anything, players do. If some guild leader is telling his/her members to not PVP anymore, that is just messed up, if they are actively ranting about it in their own guild chat and stirring everyone up to the point they get negative about it as well, that is even more messed up. I personally do not enjoy dungeons or trials, but I would never trash talk doing them and screw up my guild members who enjoy those activities. I do the exact opposite in fact, support my guild members doing those activities, and have found officers who enjoy leading them. When those officers are taking a break or burn out, we find new people who are still excited about it to take up the lead, so our guild members can have the best experience in game they can.

If some self absorbed guild leadership is ruining their members game just because they have a personal issue with some changes, well as I said, that is just really messed up and horrible leadership. I can guarantee that not everyone in that guild who PVP's felt the same way as that leader.

We're not one of the guilds listed there (I'd actually be interested in who's left as Ive only played once last week) but I can 100% say a lot of members only log in to raid and that's it on both NA and EU. Therefore if the raids stop because the lead and guild is bored /frustrated those players also 'quit'. So it's less the lead saying "oh you shouldn't play too" and more the fact that raiding is the only partially enjoyable thing for a lot of ppl who play.

True, I would hope at least, that a good leader would just pass the crown so to say to someone still interested in PVPing (or whatever activity really). Of course in the case of some, that could easily be no one interested and that part of the guilds activities just die, leaving the members to find another guild that does still engage in the activities they enjoy.

We are not hard core by any means, but this has happened numerous times in my guild amongst various activities already and will continue to do so. Like an upcoming change... our progression trial leader is about to have his first child, so we already have folks in place to take up the lead in that area when it happens.

Joy_Division

Kwoung wrote: »

What server are you referring to, as on PCGH, there really aren't that many "guilds" running organized groups, and I still see the same ones daily and had a queue of 40 to get in last night on my own faction, so haven't seen this trend on the largest NA server at least.

And quite honestly, your entire post really points to crappy guild leadership more than a game issue. "Guilds" don't do anything, players do. If some guild leader is telling his/her members to not PVP anymore, that is just messed up, if they are actively ranting about it in their own guild chat and stirring everyone up to the point they get negative about it as well, that is even more messed up. I personally do not enjoy dungeons or trials, but I would never trash talk doing them and screw up my guild members who enjoy those activities. I do the exact opposite in fact, support my guild members doing those activities, and have found officers who enjoy leading them. When those officers are taking a break or burn out, we find new people who are still excited about it to take up the lead, so our guild members can have the best experience in game they can.

If some self absorbed guild leadership is ruining their members game just because they have a personal issue with some changes, well as I said, that is just really messed up and horrible leadership. I can guarantee that not everyone in that guild who PVP's felt the same way as that leader.

In a perfect world, yes, this is what good leadership does.

In a world where powerful sets are seen as solutions to playstyle patterns, performance is so poor that months-long Live radical testing is done, no full time PvP developer is hired, flawed map has remained basically the same since launch, et. al., it's really hard to keep up that gung *** positive attitude, let alone engender it for an entire guild. The leadership is not self absorbed. They are human and thus subject to the emotions such as disappointment, disillusionment, frustration, etc.

Q of 40 is nothing to brag about when that same Q was once 140. I am guessing that's EP's Q because as AD at 8:30 EST, the Q was 3.

I will be one of those people who is going to NW, but the reason I am doing so is not just because it's shiny and new. In fact I'd rate the combat in ESO higher and NW lacks the open world / objective gameplay that attracted me to ESO in the first place. But all of ZOS's development goes into crown crates, PvE questing zones, and ever increasingly more powerful gear they dangle in front of the player base as a means to either change metas or have us forget our classes have become homogenized or have abilities so poor that nobody ever uses. Not even great guild leadership will be able to overcome that.

Nogawd

The PvP guilds in this game were never higher than when it debuted to about year 2.

It was based on performance then. Nothing has changed. PvP will never be smooth in this game.

danthemann5

The frustration is very real. It's also disappointing to know that ESO will never be better than it is today.

Karm1cOne

In the past a lot of the disbanded guilds just reformed with different name and a different leader. Same people. This time it feels like entire guild rosters are leaving.

ResidentContrarian

If a set is causing a guild to quit, then the guild simply got reality checked about the "skill" they had and whether or not they were the ""premier group of PvPers" like so many of them claim while attacking doors defended by one person, or only logging in when bars are heavily unbalanced.

If those guilds quitting, nothing was lost.

VaranisArano

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

If a set is causing a guild to quit, then the guild simply got reality checked about the "skill" they had and whether or not they were the ""premier group of PvPers" like so many of them claim while attacking doors defended by one person, or only logging in when bars are heavily unbalanced.

If those guilds quitting, nothing was lost.

I'd say it's probably not the sets, specifically. Rather it's that ZOS has decided to take aim at a playstyle they prefer to the point of not only releasing sets that specifically and explicitly target that playstyle, but also in one case break the game rules that the Devs themselves made in order to do it.

Personally, I'm not too bothered by the sets. I figured that a Stam version of Inevitable Det was, well, inevitable, though I question their decision to break their own game rules for a set effect they thought was cool.

But when I add up the effect of the sets, the Devs' decision to drop group sizes to 12 which for larger organized guild meant deciding "Which friends get to raid tonight", and the longstanding performance issues with absolutely no sign of improvement...well, I'm not surprised that some guilds are quitting. The sets are one more straw on the camel's heavy load.

rbfrgsp

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

If a set is causing a guild to quit, then the guild simply got reality checked about the "skill" they had and whether or not they were the ""premier group of PvPers" like so many of them claim while attacking doors defended by one person, or only logging in when bars are heavily unbalanced.

If those guilds quitting, nothing was lost.

Or they just found the move towards a skill race to the bottom distasteful and unrewarding. That's why I've stopped playing this patch and I always ran a solo build in Cyro. I've no appetite for instadeath with no chance of response , defence or counter.

The game is aimed more and more at ez moders and beginners who they patronisingly believe will quit if they get beaten. But people are much more likely to quit from randomised death encounters and a total lack of incentive to improve.

LarsS

There is an alternative, it took time before I decided to try it though. Go non-proc, non-cp. It's close to the original ESO PVP where skill and teamwork is decisive. There is still enough sets around to create variation in the game play.

rbfrgsp

The no proc test was every bit as bad as the current patch. It exposed the aching gap in performance between class tool kits and forced all players into large groups. Single combat became a standoff that lasted until one player git zerged over, and in big battles, highest population always won. I described it as like playing Fall Guys at the time - because everyone runs around in huge groups with largely the same abilities and victory is determined by dumb luck. Current patch in GH is every bit as bad in exactly the same way.

Sanctum74

LarsS wrote: »

There is an alternative, it took time before I decided to try it though. Go non-proc, non-cp. It's close to the original ESO PVP where skill and teamwork is decisive. There is still enough sets around to create variation in the game play.

I agree, but the problem is trying to get enough people to go there. Fighting the same 10 people gets boring quick. I have a feeling most people will just end up quitting or taking a break.

LarsS

rbfrgsp wrote: »

The no proc test was every bit as bad as the current patch. It exposed the aching gap in performance between class tool kits and forced all players into large groups. Single combat became a standoff that lasted until one player git zerged over, and in big battles, highest population always won. I described it as like playing Fall Guys at the time - because everyone runs around in huge groups with largely the same abilities and victory is determined by dumb luck. Current patch in GH is every bit as bad in exactly the same way.

The new non-proc is different as I said there is much more sets to choose from. An organized group can easily take down larger numbers, its not the same as the non-proc test. It's more like the pvp when ESO was new.

ResidentContrarian

rbfrgsp wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

If a set is causing a guild to quit, then the guild simply got reality checked about the "skill" they had and whether or not they were the ""premier group of PvPers" like so many of them claim while attacking doors defended by one person, or only logging in when bars are heavily unbalanced.

If those guilds quitting, nothing was lost.

Or they just found the move towards a skill race to the bottom distasteful and unrewarding. That's why I've stopped playing this patch and I always ran a solo build in Cyro. I've no appetite for instadeath with no chance of response , defence or counter.

The game is aimed more and more at ez moders and beginners who they patronisingly believe will quit if they get beaten. But people are much more likely to quit from randomised death encounters and a total lack of incentive to improve.

If skill and lack of it being relevant was the reason you quit, then you should have done it ages ago considering the game hasn't been balanced at all since One Tamriel (arguably balanced since everyone was OP). Fact of the matter is, the game doesn't take any skill, esp. from a ball group or faction stack because mechanics that scale in the game have no absolute limit and they have no real counter.

These sets are literally an additional "mechanic" thrown into the game with the same exact infinite scaling issue as all the other problems in the game, even in singular builds that are "broken OP" the problem is still a scaling one.

On that note, I fail to see how one mechanic or feature in the game could be worse than another in terms of balance when they are all unbalanced. Yet only one side gets pushed as a problem on the forums...?

Also, I doubt that they are looking out for the newer players with these sets considering they are most likely to get destroyed by them, and that ZOS still hasn't done anything about the powercreep, or general unbalance between different builds and their strengths. (tanky builds that blast out damage for instance)

rbfrgsp

LarsS wrote: »

rbfrgsp wrote: »

The no proc test was every bit as bad as the current patch. It exposed the aching gap in performance between class tool kits and forced all players into large groups. Single combat became a standoff that lasted until one player git zerged over, and in big battles, highest population always won. I described it as like playing Fall Guys at the time - because everyone runs around in huge groups with largely the same abilities and victory is determined by dumb luck. Current patch in GH is every bit as bad in exactly the same way.

The new non-proc is different as I said there is much more sets to choose from. An organized group can easily take down larger numbers, its not the same as the non-proc test. It's more like the pvp when ESO was new.

The current game is worse than even the proc test, so I may give that campaign a look. But more likely than not I will just play less.

Reverb

I hope to see a lot of familiar names from ESO pvp in New World.

Recremen

We always get a bunch of guilds leaving with every patch, as part of a general downward population trend. I don't even think the new sets are all that bad (historically, organized guilds just adapt and use the sets better than the zergs, and we already see the few groups sticking around doing so), but it seems that the general impression is that the PvP team doesn't want people to be good, organized, and successful. They seem to want Cyro to be a slug/gankfest full of point-and-click heroes on siege, massive wanton proc explosions, and bow light-attack spam. That plus the continuous bug/performance issues will naturally start driving away the most invested, organized, and skilled players, because expectations go up at the higher levels of play. I can only guess at what motivates this "nobody is allowed to be good" design attitude, but it's clear that there are a lot of unhappy customers who are realizing that they can still get decent PvP in other games, where they don't have to keep adjusting to and subverting every design choice made specifically to destroy their style of play.

ErMurazor

Most of the serious ballgroup raidguilds have been waiting for a game to leave ESO for 2-3 years now. So what we see now is not because of some new sets LOL,

And to all that have been crying about ballgroups, have fun and enjoy. Cheers

neferpitou73

VaranisArano wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

If a set is causing a guild to quit, then the guild simply got reality checked about the "skill" they had and whether or not they were the ""premier group of PvPers" like so many of them claim while attacking doors defended by one person, or only logging in when bars are heavily unbalanced.

If those guilds quitting, nothing was lost.

I'd say it's probably not the sets, specifically. Rather it's that ZOS has decided to take aim at a playstyle they prefer to the point of not only releasing sets that specifically and explicitly target that playstyle, but also in one case break the game rules that the Devs themselves made in order to do it.

Personally, I'm not too bothered by the sets. I figured that a Stam version of Inevitable Det was, well, inevitable, though I question their decision to break their own game rules for a set effect they thought was cool.

But when I add up the effect of the sets, the Devs' decision to drop group sizes to 12 which for larger organized guild meant deciding "Which friends get to raid tonight", and the longstanding performance issues with absolutely no sign of improvement...well, I'm not surprised that some guilds are quitting. The sets are one more straw on the camel's heavy load.

Yeah pretty much all of this. I know of 3 ball group guilds leaving eso from a combination of burnout, ZOS' weird changes and now the crazy sets. Which is a shame for ZOS because all of these people were super dedicated, subscribers etc. I think people are finally going to get a taste of what Cyrodiil's like without ball groups. If it is more enjoyable for them then I truly wish people well. But something tells me people are going to find the campaigns much emptier than they were...

techyeshic

No ball group for me, and while I don't care for damage Procs, I've dealt with them. For me, it's the continued bad game performance then adding sets that escalate issues with break free in the already laggy mess. It's just added up and came together at a single tipping point. Procs and lag together

SimonThesis

I've never seen so many pvp guilds on all sides disband so quickly since the most recent patch comes out. If Zos isnt careful cyrodiil could end up deserted.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

YandereGirlfriend

SimonThesis wrote: »

I've never seen so many pvp guilds on all sides disband so quickly since the most recent patch comes out. If Zos isnt careful cyrodiil could end up deserted.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Which is all the more annoying considering that last patch was, IMO, the best patch that ESO had seen in many, many cycles.

The whiplash from that to this is so intense.

Didact805

Desyncs, server lag and in general the new sets... yeah no wonder there's backlash lol. PvP will die.

LarsS

Didact805 wrote: »

Desyncs, server lag and in general the new sets... yeah no wonder there's backlash lol. PvP will die.

Have you tried the new multicore video option? I improves game play for many.

ErMurazor

LarsS wrote: »

Didact805 wrote: »

Desyncs, server lag and in general the new sets... yeah no wonder there's backlash lol. PvP will die.

Have you tried the new multicore video option? I improves game play for many.

Lars move on, endgame PvP in ESO is dead now