Betty Netch

Aztlan

The main purpose of the Betty Netch skill is to give Wardens some sustain and a source of Major Brutality/Sorcery. Then a while back, the devs added the nice little perk that the netch would now also remove 1 negative effect every 5 seconds.

Welp, now in the age of Plaguebreak, we can't slot a key skill in our repertoire because we cannot control the purge. If the Netch is up and we have the plague, we will blow up within 5 seconds.

This isn't right. ZOS needs to remove the purge and let us have access to the key functionality of the skill.

mmtaniac

Warden is strong can survive its only 10k

Marcus_Aurelius

No, some of us like to play in nocp.

Aztlan

Right. I get that. Maybe there's another answer. But as things stand, Wardens in CP are screwed. We simply cannot use Betty Netch. ZOS has introduced a set that has fundamentally unbalanced the class.

Kaysha

Other classes do fine without betty. I‘ve not been using it for quite some time anyway

Ralamil

Kaysha wrote: »

Other classes do fine without betty. I‘ve not been using it for quite some time anyway

Because other classes have different sustain mechanics. Sorcs have Dark Exchange + morphs. DKs have passives which manage resources. Templars have Restoring Aura + morphs.

So yes, of course "other classes do fine without betty." They don't need betty netch. Their sustain issues are being handled by other skills.

But for wardens, this IS their sustain skill, and is now useless because ZOS has no idea what it's doing.

Also, just because you haven't been using it doesn't mean that was the correct choice for your setup. Considering what the skill does for you, even if we were to remove the cleanse effect, I can pretty much guarantee you did not make the correct choice in leaving it off your bar.

Aztlan

This.

neferpitou73

Or ZOS could just remove the offending set...

ESO_Nightingale

imo i think it'd be fine to remove the auto purge but keep the old 1 purge upon cast. No-one even asked for the autopurge anyway.

mmtaniac

Remove purge every 5 sec keep purge at cast but add cost to netch in exchange improve resource regen to regen more.

Casul

Scrap auto purge, keep 1st one, implement upfront cost. Slightly lower regen, give resource burst after 20 second (gives a bit of room incase you reapply a bit early)

ESO_Nightingale

mmtaniac wrote: »

Remove purge every 5 sec keep purge at cast but add cost to netch in exchange improve resource regen to regen more.

Honestly just the auto purge should be removed. The regen is fine as is. A cost is completely unecessarry.

Sephyr

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Or ZOS could just remove the offending set...

While I agree that they could, unfortunately we're more sooner at the mercy of a change in Betty Netch before we see a new set get pulled.

If it's easier for the auto-purge to get removed, I'd really love to see ZoS communicate this with the forum for those who main the class before they just up and remove it. I feel like the likeliness of that happening though is pretty slim. I'm hoping for a resolution that makes most people happy.

rbfrgsp

Players to Zos, every single update: This. Is. Why. We. Have. A. Test. Server.

Zos to players, every single update: we listened to all of your feedback and we are very proud to reveal: one brand new non-combat pet and memento!

Aztlan

Sephyr wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Or ZOS could just remove the offending set...

While I agree that they could, unfortunately we're more sooner at the mercy of a change in Betty Netch before we see a new set get pulled.

If it's easier for the auto-purge to get removed, I'd really love to see ZoS communicate this with the forum for those who main the class before they just up and remove it. I feel like the likeliness of that happening though is pretty slim. I'm hoping for a resolution that makes most people happy.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Joy_Division

PvE people are just going to love this.

ImSoPro

Can’t you just re cast the netch for the purge?

Greasytengu

Joy_Division wrote: »

PvE people are just going to love this.

Dark convergence seems like it could be a good set for fighting large masses of trash mobs.


If they leave the netch with a purge on cast, it wont be too hard since it has no cost.

neferpitou73

Sephyr wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Or ZOS could just remove the offending set...

While I agree that they could, unfortunately we're more sooner at the mercy of a change in Betty Netch before we see a new set get pulled.

If it's easier for the auto-purge to get removed, I'd really love to see ZoS communicate this with the forum for those who main the class before they just up and remove it. I feel like the likeliness of that happening though is pretty slim. I'm hoping for a resolution that makes most people happy.

I agree with this but he reason I say this it that it's not just Netch that's the issue:

Templar purge
Necro Purge
Netch
Curse Eater
Purge/Cleanse
Stendarr's

and I'm sure I'm forgetting others

One set is make all of these things unviable. I know it's not likely that they'll remove it, but I don't think ZOS realizes how much of a colossal screwup this set is.

My group got wiped by a 46.6k plague proc because a templar habitually cast their ritual on the door to prevent a bombing after the fight had ended (and they unknowingly still had the effect on them). This set is nowhere close to balanced and eliminates a lot of other sets/skills in the game.

ResidentContrarian

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Or ZOS could just remove the offending set...

While I agree that they could, unfortunately we're more sooner at the mercy of a change in Betty Netch before we see a new set get pulled.

If it's easier for the auto-purge to get removed, I'd really love to see ZoS communicate this with the forum for those who main the class before they just up and remove it. I feel like the likeliness of that happening though is pretty slim. I'm hoping for a resolution that makes most people happy.

I agree with this but he reason I say this it that it's not just Netch that's the issue:

Templar purge
Necro Purge
Netch
Curse Eater
Purge/Cleanse
Stendarr's

and I'm sure I'm forgetting others

One set is make all of these things unviable. I know it's not likely that they'll remove it, but I don't think ZOS realizes how much of a colossal screwup this set is.

My group got wiped by a 46.6k plague proc because a templar habitually cast their ritual on the door to prevent a bombing after the fight had ended (and they unknowingly still had the effect on them). This set is nowhere close to balanced and eliminates a lot of other sets/skills in the game.

On the opposite argument, those sets and skills make siege unviable and an entire class (DK) nearly useless and there is no counter to them, yet no one cares.

Again, a group should pay better attention -- not being able to have an absolute advantage by slotting either gear or spamming a skill that itself has no real counter, doesn't exactly prove that the set is unbalanced.

It just means that it's unbalanced v. an unbalanced mechanic in the first place.

And you can see me say this all over the forums: yeah, zero sympathy.

If ZOS actually balanced purge in a PvP environment with ramping cost or a CD, then players would not ever accept the emergence of this set. The problem is that they haven't, and precisely because they have not, these sets are effective in the first place.

Stx

No reason to start changing Core class abilities. The new set is pretty overtuned and the scaling is broken. The set is what needs to change.

neferpitou73

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Or ZOS could just remove the offending set...

While I agree that they could, unfortunately we're more sooner at the mercy of a change in Betty Netch before we see a new set get pulled.

If it's easier for the auto-purge to get removed, I'd really love to see ZoS communicate this with the forum for those who main the class before they just up and remove it. I feel like the likeliness of that happening though is pretty slim. I'm hoping for a resolution that makes most people happy.

I agree with this but he reason I say this it that it's not just Netch that's the issue:

Templar purge
Necro Purge
Netch
Curse Eater
Purge/Cleanse
Stendarr's

and I'm sure I'm forgetting others

One set is make all of these things unviable. I know it's not likely that they'll remove it, but I don't think ZOS realizes how much of a colossal screwup this set is.

My group got wiped by a 46.6k plague proc because a templar habitually cast their ritual on the door to prevent a bombing after the fight had ended (and they unknowingly still had the effect on them). This set is nowhere close to balanced and eliminates a lot of other sets/skills in the game.

On the opposite argument, those sets and skills make siege unviable and an entire class (DK) nearly useless and there is no counter to them, yet no one cares.

Again, a group should pay better attention -- not being able to have an absolute advantage by slotting either gear or spamming a skill that itself has no real counter, doesn't exactly prove that the set is unbalanced.

It just means that it's unbalanced v. an unbalanced mechanic in the first place.

And you can see me say this all over the forums: yeah, zero sympathy.

If ZOS actually balanced purge in a PvP environment with ramping cost or a CD, then players would not ever accept the emergence of this set. The problem is that they haven't, and precisely because they have not, these sets are effective in the first place.

I'd agree but ZOS hasn't even tried to "fix" purge though. As far as I'm aware this was their first attempt at a solution. The issue I have with these sets was that ZOS didn't even attempt to balance the mechanics and essentially just went "screw it we'll introduce sets that take care of it for us, darn the consequences."

I fail to see how siege isn't working when groups still feel a lot of pressure from siege (hence the reason they run all of these things). Contrary to popular opinion countersige is a viable tactic against most groups. I do feel for DKs attempting to run dot builds but making those viable would require careful balancing to keep things fun, which this set is not.

spacefracking

Only 3 classes get major sorcery via a passive, which is incredibly overpowered. I'm not aware of stamdens that don't bar a two hander for major brutality. The purge is for one effect, every five seconds, people deal with stuff like inevitable detonation, there are options like degeneration, so you can pick whether you want purge and some extra regen or not, spell power potions, etc.

Imo, wardens got a huge buff, again, but perhaps they should remove it. It's not like it was that strong to begin with.

The more skilled ball groups handle inevitable detonations by watching what attacks are coming at them and changing their behavior based on it.

It's a pvp nerf, just like every other purge got nerfed. Working as intended I'd say. There are lots of things that modify play style every patch, and this serves a purpose, as purge is causing insane problems with gameplay for the majority of players.

WrathOfInnos

How much does Plaguebreak hit against a solo warden? Is it only an issue when stacked with allies?

It’s obviously designed to counter purge spamming ball groups. If it succeeds, and purge spam dies off, then there will be no reason to run the set anymore. Nobody is going to slot a 5pc set to occasionally counter wardens, if the can pick them out in a ball group.

I don’t really care if purge is removed from Netch, but if that happens it should return more resources. It’s already the weakest sustain skill in the game. Justifiable only because it has additional utility.

Aztlan

spacefracking wrote: »

Only 3 classes get major sorcery via a passive, which is incredibly overpowered. I'm not aware of stamdens that don't bar a two hander for major brutality.

Uh, a lot of us run duel wield and Whirling Blades for group play.

As for the rest, it's fine if ZOS wants to penalize purge, or make players/groups make conscious decisions about when to purge. But as it stands, the auto-purge on Betty Netch adds a random element that I shouldn't have to tolerate in order get my Major Brutality and some sustain. 40-50K Plaguebreak explosions are not uncommon right now when people accidentally purge in groups.

Aztlan

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

How much does Plaguebreak hit against a solo warden? Is it only an issue when stacked with allies?

It’s obviously designed to counter purge spamming ball groups. If it succeeds, and purge spam dies off, then there will be no reason to run the set anymore. Nobody is going to slot a 5pc set to occasionally counter wardens, if the can pick them out in a ball group.

I don’t really care if purge is removed from Netch, but if that happens it should return more resources. It’s already the weakest sustain skill in the game. Justifiable only because it has additional utility.

The hit on a solo player is survivable, but if you have many people around you, you're done.

Yes, Plaguebreak should eventually become more uncommon. Then you'll have this weird Russian roulette situation of wondering "Can I get away with running Betty Netch today even if I might blow up the whole raid at a critical moment?"

Agree. Remove the auto-purge, and at least make it controllable. Or remove it altogether and give us a bit more sustain.

Ralamil

spacefracking wrote: »

Only 3 classes get major sorcery via a passive, which is incredibly overpowered. I'm not aware of stamdens that don't bar a two hander for major brutality.

Netch provides major brutality, provides stamina regen that isn't tied to your stamina recovery (so keeps ticking while sprinting, blocking, etc), and then by dint of benefiting from Warden Animal Companion passives, does the following:

• Boosts my damage by 2% on the bar on which it's slotted
• Bumps my Magicka and Stamina regen by 12% on the bar on which it's slotted
• Provides ultimate when cast in combat
• Provides a small heal when the effect ends (even when recast)

So... why precisely would I use momentum and its morphs for major brutality when I have such a useful buff/sustain skill built into my class?

Well, useful before ZOS' carelessness made it a potential self-bomb...

Greasytengu

Ralamil wrote: »

spacefracking wrote: »

Only 3 classes get major sorcery via a passive, which is incredibly overpowered. I'm not aware of stamdens that don't bar a two hander for major brutality.

Netch provides major brutality, provides stamina regen that isn't tied to your stamina recovery (so keeps ticking while sprinting, blocking, etc), and then by dint of benefiting from Warden Animal Companion passives, does the following:

• Boosts my damage by 2% on the bar on which it's slotted
• Bumps my Magicka and Stamina regen by 12% on the bar on which it's slotted
• Provides ultimate when cast in combat
• Provides a small heal when the effect ends (even when recast)

So... why precisely would I use momentum and its morphs for major brutality when I have such a useful buff/sustain skill built into my class?

Well, useful before ZOS' carelessness made it a potential self-bomb...

Not only that, but it provides major brutality and major sorcery.

Considering that, in this exact update, ZOS changed a number of passives because they apparently love off meta and hybrid builds, but then go and make one of the best hybrid supporting abilities useless.

Ralamil

Greasytengu wrote: »

Not only that, but it provides major brutality and major sorcery.

Considering that, in this exact update, ZOS changed a number of passives because they apparently love off meta and hybrid builds, but then go and make one of the best hybrid supporting abilities useless.

Good point. I don't take much advantage of the fact that it provides both of those, so it's rarely in my mind that this morph provides both, but definitely worth calling out!

ESO_Nightingale

Greasytengu wrote: »

Ralamil wrote: »

spacefracking wrote: »

Only 3 classes get major sorcery via a passive, which is incredibly overpowered. I'm not aware of stamdens that don't bar a two hander for major brutality.

Netch provides major brutality, provides stamina regen that isn't tied to your stamina recovery (so keeps ticking while sprinting, blocking, etc), and then by dint of benefiting from Warden Animal Companion passives, does the following:

• Boosts my damage by 2% on the bar on which it's slotted
• Bumps my Magicka and Stamina regen by 12% on the bar on which it's slotted
• Provides ultimate when cast in combat
• Provides a small heal when the effect ends (even when recast)

So... why precisely would I use momentum and its morphs for major brutality when I have such a useful buff/sustain skill built into my class?

Well, useful before ZOS' carelessness made it a potential self-bomb...

Not only that, but it provides major brutality and major sorcery.

Considering that, in this exact update, ZOS changed a number of passives because they apparently love off meta and hybrid builds, but then go and make one of the best hybrid supporting abilities useless.

would be cool if rally also gave major sorcery and the heal scaled off max stats.

Aztlan

True, but class skills have always been treated a bit differently than weapon skills.