What happened to Heavy Attack Pet Sorc?

gamerguy757

I have a dumb question.
I’ve noticed that with DPS in trials and vet dungeons, I don’t see a lot of MagCro even though it is said they have the highest deeps. But I see ALOT of Magsorcs and some Magblades.

I’m curious. About a year ago, when I left for a break, I used to use a PetSorc HEAVY ATTACK build. I don’t see this anymore. The damage was good and the sustain was awesome. Why does no one run this build anymore?

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

Because the DPS is terrible.

colossalvoids

People who used heavy attack builds are still running them, it's just as uncommon as before.

Odovacar

They're not Meta and with such a static rotation most players graduate to a different sorc build. Pet sorc loyalists generally play solo most of the time. Although, a few updates ago they were actually smacking with little to no effort at all.

DontWorryAboutit

Creep Points 2.0. Nuff said

gamerguy757

DontWorryAboutit wrote: »

Creep Points 2.0. Nuff said

How did that affect HA Sorc

SirAndy

HA PetSorc is still my favorite build for soloing group content ...

spartaxoxo

gamerguy757 wrote: »

DontWorryAboutit wrote: »

Creep Points 2.0. Nuff said

How did that affect HA Sorc

It initially removed and now nerfed the star that gave your heavy attacks more damage.

SeaGtGruff

My main on PC NA is a PetSorc who tries (emphasis on "tries") to weave HA with weapon skills to keep his stamina up, but the changes they made to everything within the last year have totally screwed him over so bad that he's not nearly as much fun to play on anymore. Everyone talks about how companions have poor DPS but I'm pretty sure Bastian's DPS is better than my main's, so my only hope is to either resign myself to tanking for Bastian or else completely respec my main until he no longer has any resemblance to his current self.

I'm not a PvPer-- although I enjoy playing PvE in Cyrodiil and Imperial City, and will join in AvA action every now and again-- and I'm not an endgame PvEr; I play solo PvE almost exclusively, and my DPS has always been low. It really bums me out that all these changes were presumably made in response to OP builds in bis/meta min-max PvP and endgame PvE, because it feels like I've been punished beyond all reason for everyone else's OP builds.

Malkiv

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

My main on PC NA is a PetSorc who tries (emphasis on "tries") to weave HA with weapon skills to keep his stamina up, but the changes they made to everything within the last year have totally screwed him over so bad that he's not nearly as much fun to play on anymore. Everyone talks about how companions have poor DPS but I'm pretty sure Bastian's DPS is better than my main's, so my only hope is to either resign myself to tanking for Bastian or else completely respec my main until he no longer has any resemblance to his current self.

I'm not a PvPer-- although I enjoy playing PvE in Cyrodiil and Imperial City, and will join in AvA action every now and again-- and I'm not an endgame PvEr; I play solo PvE almost exclusively, and my DPS has always been low. It really bums me out that all these changes were presumably made in response to OP builds in bis/meta min-max PvP and endgame PvE, because it feels like I've been punished beyond all reason for everyone else's OP builds.

StamSorcs are really great, and I’m sorry you’re having to find your StamSorc’s identity again. My StamSorc is like the one stam toon I have that does not suffer from lack of stam resources, and she is probably my highest stam damage toon right now. She’s wearing ooooold meta gear for trash clearing, because I use her to solo normals if I’m farming specific gear.

SeaGtGruff

Malkiv wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

My main on PC NA is a PetSorc who tries (emphasis on "tries") to weave HA with weapon skills to keep his stamina up, but the changes they made to everything within the last year have totally screwed him over so bad that he's not nearly as much fun to play on anymore. Everyone talks about how companions have poor DPS but I'm pretty sure Bastian's DPS is better than my main's, so my only hope is to either resign myself to tanking for Bastian or else completely respec my main until he no longer has any resemblance to his current self.

I'm not a PvPer-- although I enjoy playing PvE in Cyrodiil and Imperial City, and will join in AvA action every now and again-- and I'm not an endgame PvEr; I play solo PvE almost exclusively, and my DPS has always been low. It really bums me out that all these changes were presumably made in response to OP builds in bis/meta min-max PvP and endgame PvE, because it feels like I've been punished beyond all reason for everyone else's OP builds.

StamSorcs are really great, and I’m sorry you’re having to find your StamSorc’s identity again. My StamSorc is like the one stam toon I have that does not suffer from lack of stam resources, and she is probably my highest stam damage toon right now. She’s wearing ooooold meta gear for trash clearing, because I use her to solo normals if I’m farming specific gear.

The funny thing is, my StamBlade main on PC EU still does fairly well-- low DPS, as always, but his stam recovery is much better such that he can, for example, solo-capture a resource in Cyrodiil (just barely), whereas my StamSorc on PC NA used to be able to solo-capture resources more easily than my StamBlade could but now can't do it because his stam recovery is so thoroughly screwed. I assume the answer lies in their CP trees, but I haven't done a comparison yet. And my StamBlade has a lower CP level than my StamSorc, since I've been playing on PC NA a lot longer than on PC EU.

ssewallb14_ESO

They're at least as effective as they were a year ago, in the situations where they were strong before they're still strong now.

You won't see them so much in trails because they don't scale well with raid buffs and heavy attacks don't work well with a lot of trial mechanics, but that was pretty much always the case.

gamerguy757

So can someone tell me what a good DPS class is? I had a MagCro that I melted with, and sustain was insane, but I could never crack 55k on the trial dummy. Plus, I had self heal issues in arenas, even with ROTPO.
So I deleted and rerolled a magblade. So much damage, and easy survivability, but difficult rotation and my sustain, even with Recovery food and orbs is still subpar.

FlopsyPrince

I don't know the exact damage, but I was really annoyed when they took away my AOE Crystal Blast option to give a useless (in my experience) stam option.

I did level a stam sorc using that and it seemed to not really do much in spite of trying to use that option frequently. I am not impressed.

I really want a true hunter class (per WoW), but a Mag Pet Sorc is the closest I can come, so I run that.

FlopsyPrince

gamerguy757 wrote: »

So can someone tell me what a good DPS class is? I had a MagCro that I melted with, and sustain was insane, but I could never crack 55k on the trial dummy. Plus, I had self heal issues in arenas, even with ROTPO.
So I deleted and rerolled a magblade. So much damage, and easy survivability, but difficult rotation and my sustain, even with Recovery food and orbs is still subpar.

They would probably nerf it if anyone told you....

It would be nice if our healers put out as much DPS as NPC healers though. They should DPS instead in many cases!

Arunei

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

It really bums me out that all these changes were presumably made in response to OP builds in bis/meta min-max PvP and endgame PvE, because it feels like I've been punished beyond all reason for everyone else's OP builds.

Pretty much this exactly. ZOS does all these nerfs and changes to try and counter the small top-tier players who can breeze through the hardest content, but in the end those people are hardly, if at all, affected by the changes, while most other players find content getting harder and harder. I'm not an endgame player by any means, I tend to hover around 30k DPS, which is enough for what I like to do. But after the proc set nerf, my WW Stamsorc lost about 10k DPS. I know "play how you want" doesn't mean "any and every build is 100% viable and you can clear all the content with it", but at the same time it shouldn't also mean gimping yourself when you want to play with a variety of different sets that worked fine before.

beer781993

For Magcro I recommend https://liko.gg/content/7542/ussr-tovarisch-magicka-necromancer-up-to-108k+-full-dots-semi-static-rotation-blackwood-eso

Rotation: https://imgbb.com/x1JfGn3

I hit 87k on a dummy with that. Got only 650 cp

Merforum

Arunei wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

It really bums me out that all these changes were presumably made in response to OP builds in bis/meta min-max PvP and endgame PvE, because it feels like I've been punished beyond all reason for everyone else's OP builds.

Pretty much this exactly. ZOS does all these nerfs and changes to try and counter the small top-tier players who can breeze through the hardest content, but in the end those people are hardly, if at all, affected by the changes, while most other players find content getting harder and harder. I'm not an endgame player by any means, I tend to hover around 30k DPS, which is enough for what I like to do. But after the proc set nerf, my WW Stamsorc lost about 10k DPS. I know "play how you want" doesn't mean "any and every build is 100% viable and you can clear all the content with it", but at the same time it shouldn't also mean gimping yourself when you want to play with a variety of different sets that worked fine before.

Exactly right. Instead of putting hard CAPS on anything that they thought was being abused. They actually made it even more OP to MinMax. As a perfect example is PVP Stamsorc. The exact same people who were crying endlessly that proc sets were terrible are running stamsorc with 8K weapon damage and not 1, not 2, not 3 BUT FOUR Procs now, vat 2hd, deadland, ashen plus crystal weapon which ALL proc off just a medium attack (not fully charged heavy). All the proc SCALED up to 8K. They call it the one shot sorc.

So what do we have, probably hundreds of 'fun' builds have lost 20-50% of their power (the very mid tier which was supposed to get a boost) but MinMaxers got even stronger (who were supposed to be toned down a bit).

With all that being said my hybrid tank/dps are still OK and my heavy attack builds still work in all PVE content, even soloing world bosses and nDSA. With or without companions, but usually with to level them up. I am thinking companions are what they had in mind when they were talking about raising the floor.

oterWitz

Too add as an answer to the original question, there's also a heavy attack but with the lightning staff at least. Sometimes the heavy attack just won't start. I'm leveling a HA DK and it's quite annoying, been around since before CP 2.0 I believe, and that of course didn't help things either.

Also for the class advice, if you look at the above Liko video remember that Bahsei's is difficult/annoying to use optimally. And actually that describes the Necro class pretty well too I've found magden most similar because shalks and blastbones are both cast every third skill. Perhaps give that a try?

molecule

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Because the DPS is terrible.

My HA lightning sorc parses 80k on a 21m dummy.

Far from top tier, but I wouldn't call it terrible.

Malkiv

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

They're at least as effective as they were a year ago, in the situations where they were strong before they're still strong now.

You won't see them so much in trails because they don't scale well with raid buffs and heavy attacks don't work well with a lot of trial mechanics, but that was pretty much always the case.

If you want to take a HA Sorc to a trial, people would welcome wearing Infallible Aether, Master Architect, and your choice of monster set; Maw of the Infernal if you want to keep pet themed. Just run the Atro ulti so people can synergise from it, and you get it at a reduced cast cost.

I would welcome that into most vTrials even, if we’re just going for a clear.

FrancisCrawford

Malkiv wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

They're at least as effective as they were a year ago, in the situations where they were strong before they're still strong now.

You won't see them so much in trails because they don't scale well with raid buffs and heavy attacks don't work well with a lot of trial mechanics, but that was pretty much always the case.

If you want to take a HA Sorc to a trial, people would welcome wearing Infallible Aether, Master Architect, and your choice of monster set; Maw of the Infernal if you want to keep pet themed. Just run the Atro ulti so people can synergise from it, and you get it at a reduced cast cost.

I would welcome that into most vTrials even, if we’re just going for a clear.

A trial tank would welcome Maw of the Infernal??

gamerguy757

So my HA sorc was Mother’s, Medusa, Ilambris. It did very good in trials and vet cdungeons. I’m just confused on why it’s not run. I see people use pets with out HA but it’s with elemental weapon and I don’t get how it is sustainable.

gamerguy757

oterWitz wrote: »

Too add as an answer to the original question, there's also a heavy attack but with the lightning staff at least. Sometimes the heavy attack just won't start. I'm leveling a HA DK and it's quite annoying, been around since before CP 2.0 I believe, and that of course didn't help things either.

Also for the class advice, if you look at the above Liko video remember that Bahsei's is difficult/annoying to use optimally. And actually that describes the Necro class pretty well too I've found magden most similar because shalks and blastbones are both cast every third skill. Perhaps give that a try?

I had a MagCro that did really well but it was so clunky and the BB just standing there was annoying as it screwed rotation when it doesn’t do anything.

What class is good Damage and has decent sustain

Varana

Malkiv wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

They're at least as effective as they were a year ago, in the situations where they were strong before they're still strong now.

You won't see them so much in trails because they don't scale well with raid buffs and heavy attacks don't work well with a lot of trial mechanics, but that was pretty much always the case.

If you want to take a HA Sorc to a trial, people would welcome wearing Infallible Aether, Master Architect, and your choice of monster set; Maw of the Infernal if you want to keep pet themed. Just run the Atro ulti so people can synergise from it, and you get it at a reduced cast cost.

I would welcome that into most vTrials even, if we’re just going for a clear.

There are easier sources of Minor Vulnerability now, though, so Infallible Aether has lost a lot of its raison d'être.

Malkiv

Varana wrote: »

Malkiv wrote: »

If you want to take a HA Sorc to a trial, people would welcome wearing Infallible Aether, Master Architect, and your choice of monster set; Maw of the Infernal if you want to keep pet themed. Just run the Atro ulti so people can synergise from it, and you get it at a reduced cast cost.

I would welcome that into most vTrials even, if we’re just going for a clear.

There are easier sources of Minor Vulnerability now, though, so Infallible Aether has lost a lot of its raison d'être.

We’re not talking about organized, cohesive play here. My suggestions are what an HA MagSorc can bring to a vTrial and actually be useful.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

A trial tank would welcome Maw of the Infernal??

Absolutely, because I’ve never had an issue with knowing what’s going on with a boss, even with 4-6 Maws crowding the boss.

I’ll honestly never understand why some people in the forums whinge over Maw, but then also try to advocate diversity and “play as you want”. I sincerely believe it’s the Nickelback Effect.

Aznarb

Malkiv wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

They're at least as effective as they were a year ago, in the situations where they were strong before they're still strong now.

You won't see them so much in trails because they don't scale well with raid buffs and heavy attacks don't work well with a lot of trial mechanics, but that was pretty much always the case.

If you want to take a HA Sorc to a trial, people would welcome wearing Infallible Aether, Master Architect, and your choice of monster set; Maw of the Infernal if you want to keep pet themed. Just run the Atro ulti so people can synergise from it, and you get it at a reduced cast cost.

I would welcome that into most vTrials even, if we’re just going for a clear.

Worst way to play HA build.
Minor vuln no need a dedicated set, and MA is useless since the set from greymoor exist and is weared by healer.
Also using these set on it would result in an horrible dps so, totally useless to the group.

A good HA build, well played can hit 70-80k. Which is enough for pretty much anything outside of some Trial HM/Trifeca.

Elvenheart

What are the best two five piece sets to combine for a sorc heavy attack? I’ve mixed and matched Undaunted Weaver, Undaunted Infiltrator (lightning staff & jewelry) Noble Duelist, Knight Slayer, and Torug’s Pact, all with Zaan’s monster set, but I can’t seem to tell much difference in the final result no matter which two of these five piece sets I’ve paired. What I like about using an Undaunted Infiltrator weapon and jewelry even though the 2-4 piece bonuses are stamina based is the fact that the five piece bonus is triggered by casting a skill that uses magicka. And I wonder if one of the new dungeon sets coming out tomorrow would be a good one to pair with one of these existing sets?

Shantu

Here's a HA MagSorc build that's very effective. Use Caltrops to proc the Undaunted Unweaver HA buff and any Mag skill to proc the Undaunted Infiltrator HA buff. Combine those with the HA buff from the Maelstrom staff, slotting the Weapons Expert CP (15% boost in light and heavy attacks), and using lightning staffs to proc Off Balance, and you get a pretty beefy heavy attack along with big AOE damage. I've run vet trials (though not typically) as well as a Maelstrom Flawless and The Vateshran Chosen with this build.

This is a solo/arena build but skills could easily be adapted for trials. Not everyone's cup-o-tea, but a fun and effective build.

novemberhhh

yikes

Elvenheart

Shantu wrote: »

Here's a HA MagSorc build that's very effective. Use Caltrops to proc the Undaunted Unweaver HA buff and any Mag skill to proc the Undaunted Infiltrator HA buff. Combine those with the HA buff from the Maelstrom staff, slotting the Weapons Expert CP (15% boost in light and heavy attacks), and using lightning staffs to proc Off Balance, and you get a pretty beefy heavy attack along with big AOE damage. I've run vet trials (though not typically) as well as a Maelstrom Flawless and The Vateshran Chosen with this build.

This is a solo/arena build but skills could easily be adapted for trials. Not everyone's cup-o-tea, but a fun and effective build.

Thanks for the advice!