Bot Farming, Reporting, and Zos

destroy6574

Ps4/5 NA
I have a few questions about bot farming and reporting.
8/13/21, I came upon a "megabot" , as our Disruptor team calls them. They are a stack of 6 or 8 pet sorcs, killing for rubedo.
They were at Glisten Vale, Auridon. ALSO at Glisten Vale, in the corner, was another player, but it was a bot farm master, or programmer. It was lvl 35, had a completly different psn config, in fact, its psn config matched its character name, it wasnt just a bunch of jumbled letters like most bots. It had 6 bronze trophies. The psn of the "programmer", according to google, were Chinese specific, words.
I out ran the mega bot at that location for about an hour, and got about 6 or 700 rubedo hide scraps, and noticed the programmer disappeared.
How do I know he was a bot programmer you ask?
I was tracking bots yesterday, 8/14/21, just south of BleackRock Village, and just happened across a a character standing statue still, for more than an hour, in the midst of a bot route where 3 bots intersected one node.
Why this one particular bot stood out is because it had the EXACT same psn as the "programmer " I saw the day before in Auridon, except it was lvl 29, and the very first letter in the psn AND character name was S, instead of D. Trophies and psn profiles identical, both say they speak chinese. Both nearly identical psns.
But this time, right after I reported this "programmer", and the 3 bots intersecting the nodes, the programmer took off, and his bot followed. (Only 1 of those 3 bots he controlled, possibly?)
I followed the programmer, and his bot, a little ways, until, POOF! They both disappeared, right in front of my eyes.
Then, magically, all bots disappeared out of all zones for about an hour. The farming was magnificent.
My team raked in the loot.
And then, at about 11pm, est, the second bot "programmer" appeared in the same exact spot in Bleakrock, and the second he did, literally, my team reported all zones were crawling with bots again. It was back on.
My question is, where exactly can we report Mass Botting?
We have tracked Bots selling in Guilds, which guilds these bots are in, and which guilds are colluding together.
Reporting single bots in game seems not enough, when the problem is the farmers, the programmers, and the in game players and guilds that use Botting to their advantage.
I of course have screenshots, AND vids of these two above mentioned bot "programmers"
And proof of bots selling in guilds, and which guilds are using Bots.
For those of us that are paying for the game, and play it by the rules, @zos, where can I report this to? And what chance do guilds have that choose to pay and play fairly, without using the mega power of bot gold?

FluffWit

Look I appreciate you hat the bots- I'm not a fan either, but this really is wasted effort man.

ZOS knows "bots" farm there. They know about the mudb crab farm in Alik'r. They know about the ones running routes on every starter island. And they do virtually nothing. Because- in my opinion, they simply don't care.

In the specific case of Glidten Vale I've seen afk sorc characters farming scraps there for at least 6 years.

You're not gonna change that. I'm not gonna change that. 100 of us complaining in this thread isnt gonna change that long term.

Im not trying to be a jerk. I just feel you're wasting your energy on something futile.

Monte_Cristo

I saw a bot train of 4 templars there yesterday. PC NA. Just running round the building, killing wolves.

UntilValhalla13

Maybe we could just start reporting it to Sony and see if they'll do anything.

destroy6574

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

Maybe we could just start reporting it to Sony and see if they'll do anything.

You know, I have heard reporting straight to microsoft might be more effective now that they own it. Still trying to figure out how though.
I follow up on my bethesda tickets, but have gotten no reponses, although bots that ive mass reported have disappeared, only to be replaced the next day with new ones

destroy6574

FluffWit wrote: »

Look I appreciate you hat the bots- I'm not a fan either, but this really is wasted effort man.

ZOS knows "bots" farm there. They know about the mudb crab farm in Alik'r. They know about the ones running routes on every starter island. And they do virtually nothing. Because- in my opinion, they simply don't care.

In the specific case of Glidten Vale I've seen afk sorc characters farming scraps there for at least 6 years.

You're not gonna change that. I'm not gonna change that. 100 of us complaining in this thread isnt gonna change that long term.

Im not trying to be a jerk. I just feel you're wasting your energy on something futile.

Don't really care how you "feel" about it. Youmight be fine with cheating, but 40+ guilds on Ps4/na ARE TIRED OF IT, AND THE ADVANTAGE IT GIVES TO BOT FARMING GUILDS, and we are not going to be quiet about it, ANYMORE. You play your game, and we'll play ours.

alcoraptor

destroy6574 wrote: »

Youmight be fine with cheating, but 40+ guilds on Ps4/na ARE TIRED OF IT, AND THE ADVANTAGE IT GIVES TO BOT FARMING GUILDS, and we are not going to be quiet about it, ANYMORE. You play your game, and we'll play ours.

No-one is saying they're ok with the bots, or the farming.
People are not being quiet about it, either - just search the forums: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/search?Search=bot - there are threads going back to 2014.

ZoS don't discuss moderation activity on the forums, but it's clear from the ongoing posts that this is a persistent issue that they are not addressing.
As mentioned in other posts and threads, they're well aware the bot farms exist...

Fennwitty

These days sadly, it's not as much whether a company is aware of a problem.

It's about how many customers and potential customers are aware of the problem.

Bot farmers are tough to get people riled up about collectively. They don't see immediate impacts, and some players defend the practice as being beneficial.

If however we started seeing YouTube videos appear with more frequency and tons of views triggering social media outburst, then the company might 'notice' and suddenly 'realize there's a problem'.

SeaGtGruff

If someone reports a mass of bots and then they disappear, it would seem pretty clear that ZOS did in fact take action.

If the bots are replaced by other bots the next day, either report the new bots or don't report them-- but don't assume that ZOS doesn't care just because new bots appeared. If the old bots disappeared, then obviously ZOS does care.

There was a big story in the news several months ago about a huge bust in China (I think) where they arrested some people who had illegally made a large amount of money through online games, and used it to buy expensive cars and other things. Those types of busts don't just happen overnight; they involve a great deal of prior investigation and evidence-gathering so the authorities can make their cases in court. I don't know whether ZOS passes along information about botters to local and international authorities for investigation-- but assuming they do, don't expect that to lead to instantaneous arrests.

Marto

You could try sending a ticket and communicate with support via email. Maybe they could point you to the right person to talk to?

Although... chances are, they'll just tell you to use the provided in-game tools to report the bots. They probably can't give you any information or transparency on how, why, or when they tackle bots.

Put yourself in the shoes of ZOS. How do they know you aren't a botter, secretly trying to obtain information on how ZOS' anti-bot efforts operate, in order to learn how to bypass them? They can't know, so, they won't share any information.

Combating botters, cheaters and hackers is an uphill battle.

Get rid of all of them, a new ones will take their place. Even banning them can cause more harm, because it gives information that programmers can use to better refine their cheats.

For example, a botter could create two groups of bots with different pathing behaviors. If ZOS does a big ban wave, and only group A gets banned, the botter now knows that group B is harder to detect. It's like natural selection or selective breeding.

It's why a lot of game companies will only announce ban waves months after they happen. Why they might willingly leave known botters unbanned, and ban them when the time is right.

Malpheus_Prime

Are the bots paying accounts? I mean, there is a world of difference right there...

HumbleThaumaturge

Remember when the game first launched . . . and there was an army of game masters and customer support personnel? I guess most (95%?) of those folks were let-go after the game was up and running. I would assume ZOS simply doesn't have the staff anymore to police the game? When game first launched, reporting bots often got a game master to kill the bot(s) and ban them within minutes. But there were a lot (a whole lot) more bots in those day than currently. I am very disappointed that ZOS does not end bots. Although, praise-be, they did eliminate gold sellers posting to Zone chat.

On a side note, many of these bot-farmers are turning around and "selling" the gold they realize. Instead of transferring gold to "buyers" via Mail or Trade (which are automatically monitored, I'm told), they use "gold laundering" for the gold transfer. Apparently, ZOS does not police gold laundering either, since I have reported it, yet the launderers continue doing it every week, week after week. An example of "gold laundering" would be to find a gold "buyer" selling items on a guild store for 50 times the normal price, then seeing the same "buyer" (the gold seller) buying all of them (for a total of 1 million gold, let's say). When one sees the same player making these sorts of sales every day, week after week, it becomes fairly obvious what's going on.

Perhaps an end or sharp reduction in gold laundering would also reduce bot farmers?

I'm sad to say that I agree with folks who have also concluded that one is wasting effort reporting to ZOS. Apparently, the policing of bots and gold launderers would cost too much? Perhaps they have concluded that the overall impact is minor compared to the cost of mitigation? I got very upset a few months ago about no action being taken against obvious gold launderers: now I try not to think about it . . . and just go out and kill things (in-game only!) instead.

destroy6574

I believe there are changes that could be made to the game to help stop botting. I think , as stated above, if the noise about bots and the negative impact it has on the game dies out, and only resurfaces every few months, nothing wil happen.
It is most frustrating to organize and run an active guild, THAT WILL NEVER HAVE A TRADER in Mournhold, Wayrest, Eldenroot, and now the lower tiered cities because these Botting Guilds are creating offshoot guilds with Botted Gold, and pushing everyone out. It is impossible, even with 500 members, charging 15k aweek, (ps4/5 na) and selling in the store, to sustain the over inflation of bids that these Botting Guilds are doing

corrosivechains

destroy6574 wrote: »

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

Maybe we could just start reporting it to Sony and see if they'll do anything.

You know, I have heard reporting straight to microsoft might be more effective now that they own it. Still trying to figure out how though.
I follow up on my bethesda tickets, but have gotten no reponses, although bots that ive mass reported have disappeared, only to be replaced the next day with new ones

buscond@microsoft.com

That's the email you want

Ken_Koerperich

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

Remember when the game first launched . . . and there was an army of game masters and customer support personnel? I guess most (95%?) of those folks were let-go after the game was up and running. I would assume ZOS simply doesn't have the staff anymore to police the game? When game first launched, reporting bots often got a game master to kill the bot(s) and ban them within minutes. But there were a lot (a whole lot) more bots in those day than currently. I am very disappointed that ZOS does not end bots. Although, praise-be, they did eliminate gold sellers posting to Zone chat.

On a side note, many of these bot-farmers are turning around and "selling" the gold they realize. Instead of transferring gold to "buyers" via Mail or Trade (which are automatically monitored, I'm told), they use "gold laundering" for the gold transfer. Apparently, ZOS does not police gold laundering either, since I have reported it, yet the launderers continue doing it every week, week after week. An example of "gold laundering" would be to find a gold "buyer" selling items on a guild store for 50 times the normal price, then seeing the same "buyer" (the gold seller) buying all of them (for a total of 1 million gold, let's say). When one sees the same player making these sorts of sales every day, week after week, it becomes fairly obvious what's going on.

Perhaps an end or sharp reduction in gold laundering would also reduce bot farmers?

I'm sad to say that I agree with folks who have also concluded that one is wasting effort reporting to ZOS. Apparently, the policing of bots and gold launderers would cost too much? Perhaps they have concluded that the overall impact is minor compared to the cost of mitigation? I got very upset a few months ago about no action being taken against obvious gold launderers: now I try not to think about it . . . and just go out and kill things (in-game only!) instead.

See BOLD....

Yup, always nice to see that "crate/container" Hp/Magicka potion in a vendor for 1 mill gold....

You know exactly what's going on....

Gold laundering for "mafia" guilds....

SeaGtGruff

Ken_Koerperich wrote: »

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

Remember when the game first launched . . . and there was an army of game masters and customer support personnel? I guess most (95%?) of those folks were let-go after the game was up and running. I would assume ZOS simply doesn't have the staff anymore to police the game? When game first launched, reporting bots often got a game master to kill the bot(s) and ban them within minutes. But there were a lot (a whole lot) more bots in those day than currently. I am very disappointed that ZOS does not end bots. Although, praise-be, they did eliminate gold sellers posting to Zone chat.

On a side note, many of these bot-farmers are turning around and "selling" the gold they realize. Instead of transferring gold to "buyers" via Mail or Trade (which are automatically monitored, I'm told), they use "gold laundering" for the gold transfer. Apparently, ZOS does not police gold laundering either, since I have reported it, yet the launderers continue doing it every week, week after week. An example of "gold laundering" would be to find a gold "buyer" selling items on a guild store for 50 times the normal price, then seeing the same "buyer" (the gold seller) buying all of them (for a total of 1 million gold, let's say). When one sees the same player making these sorts of sales every day, week after week, it becomes fairly obvious what's going on.

Perhaps an end or sharp reduction in gold laundering would also reduce bot farmers?

I'm sad to say that I agree with folks who have also concluded that one is wasting effort reporting to ZOS. Apparently, the policing of bots and gold launderers would cost too much? Perhaps they have concluded that the overall impact is minor compared to the cost of mitigation? I got very upset a few months ago about no action being taken against obvious gold launderers: now I try not to think about it . . . and just go out and kill things (in-game only!) instead.

See BOLD....

Yup, always nice to see that "crate/container" Hp/Magicka potion in a vendor for 1 mill gold....

You know exactly what's going on....

Gold laundering for "mafia" guilds....

I thought some players who have multiple accounts sometimes do that to transfer gold from seller accounts to their main account? What I mean is, they aren't "laundering" anything, just transferring gold they made from selling. But I'm not familiar with any of that beyond what I've seen some players say in the forums, so I don't really know. What exactly do you think is being laundered, and how/why?

Sindrik8x

What kills me most is the lack of acknowledgement in these threads, and the lack of follow-up as to what they are doing, or how they plan to deal with it. How can you allow this in game? It really doe suck all the immersion out of such a great world and environment. Is what it is though. Everyone here is right. That alone shows you it's literally minutes of our lives wasted trying to bring it to light. The light has been turned off.

Amerises

Game integrity is important to me, BUT what is the issue? More crafting materials = lower prices, right? Or am I missing something? Genuinely, am I missing something?

It upsets me on an integrity level, but I feel like it doesn't really do anything "bad," outside of spirit. Honestly, I feel like there are about 38 more important things I'd want ZoS to work on before this.

Ken_Koerperich

Amerises wrote: »

Game integrity is important to me, BUT what is the issue? More crafting materials = lower prices, right? Or am I missing something? Genuinely, am I missing something?

It upsets me on an integrity level, but I feel like it doesn't really do anything "bad," outside of spirit. Honestly, I feel like there are about 38 more important things I'd want ZoS to work on before this.

Yes lower prices, BUT bad for those of us who don't spend 24/7 in game like "said" bots farming...

It means "we" end up getting pennies for our FEW things we farmed as the bots got thousands of them and can drive the prices way down....

Take Atherial Dust as an example. Normal players may get 1 or 2 a month...and they were selling for 200k top end....Now, thanks to bots/farmers that get more than average, you are seeing it going for 80k or less....

That means I, who've only found 1 of them in 90 days of playing, have to sacrifice almost 120k gold if I want to sell it.

And since I don't craft, it sits in my bank eating up space collecting dust until the prices come back up.....

That's my problem w/ the bots....they are killing the market for players like me.....Can't make $$ when market is flooded & prices so dirt cheap...