Why is there no Dwarf Race?

Zama666

Yes, ESO is different that LOTR, and I REALLY REALLY respect that!

I love Khajit and Argonian are so unique to this game. Really ....love it!

But why not a proper Dwarf...not Dwemer. Or maybe Dwermer are the previous incarnation of the Dwarves before they became what they are (superior) and left.

Can't we get a few them? Maybe they were in cryogenic storage (Frost ability)?

Make then hardy warriors, craft people, magic/poison resistant. But maybe not great with Magicka. Make them fall off mounts easier. But giant classes they are harder to hit.
And boy do they love mining and creating jewelry, and suck at pizza.

Or what are thoughts do you have to share?

Enough races?
Something more unique?


Tanks!

Z

colossalvoids

There's lore without a room for a completely new creations, look up UESP or imperial library to get some insight. Some races are more possible to appear or are in the game in some way (maomer or naga as example) but I doubt that new race is soon to come, list of priorities getting bigger and bigger.

Ghanima_Atreides

Zama666 wrote: »

But why not a proper Dwarf...not Dwemer. Or maybe Dwermer are the previous incarnation of the Dwarves before they became what they are (superior) and left.

Except in TES lore, the Dwemer , "dwarves" are actually elves, whom a race of giants improperly called dwarves - and they do share a few characteristics with traditional LOTR dwarves: their tendency to live underground, be great engineers, the aspect of their architecture etc.

But short bearded guys? Nope.

VaranisArano

Er, one of the more unique features of the Elder Scrolls is that their "dwarves" are the Dwemer, and their disappearance is one of the central mysteries in the lore, being explored, but not really answered in TES 3 Morrowind.

I'm not really convinced we need a race designed to replace them.

axi

You say You respect that ESO is different then LOTR and then You prove You don't respect that at all.

Luke_Flamesword

Classic dwarves? Please, no...

I appreciate that TES lore is more unique and less generic than typical high fantasy based on Tolkien's legacy. Why you want to destroy it with so boring and used thousands times idea? Also TES lore is really complex and really many aspects of Tamriel were written in game books or we experienced it thgrough past games. There is just no room to throw completely new race into 2E Tamriel without deleting whole lore...

HappyTheCamper

Play TES 3 Morrowind to see in-game dwarves as npcs.

As far as playable race, a lot of elder scrolls fans unanimously agree that we never want to have Dwemer as a playable race.

HOWEVER! If they ever added an 11th playable race to elder scrolls, I’d like it to be Maormer.

Edit: wait like Snow White/lord of the rings dwarves? No I’m fine without those.

Xaramasa

It's not just ESO, it's the Elder Scrolls lore itself. Dwarves here are just another race of Elf and are basically Dwarves in-name only, with the only thing similar to "classic" dwarves are their love of tinkering (usually with the mystical foundations of NIrn).

Most of the cultural quirks you see and probably love from classic dwarves are present in other races available already.

Nords are hardy warriors. Orcs are renowned for their blacksmithing. Wood Elves are short and resistant to Poison.

Lugaldu

This is not meant as a criticism, but personally I don't understand why I should question the fact that there are no "traditional" dwarfs (as we know them from other fantasy worlds and fairy tales) in ESO at all. The lore from ESO offers me a somehow independent/unique world with its own creatures and I have fun with it as it is. The other way around, I also don't ask why there are no Sloads in LOTR.

Hymzir

I guess it's been couple of weeks, since we had this topic pop up, so it's time to do this dance again. The end result is still the same as always - there are no dwarves in Elder Scrolls. Not the traditional belligerent drunken grudge bearing axe maniacs they've become in popular culture. There never were, and there never will.

And while both Beth and ZOS are not known to let established lore get in the way of a marketable idea, there are still some things that cross the line. They break product identity. Asking for stereotypical fantasy dwarves to be added into Elder Scolls, is like saying that Star Wars has a sore lack of Elvis impersonators and could really do with some.

The background and lore dealing with Dwemer has fluctuated, and will continue to do so, but we will never see them in game (and if we do, then we will know for sure that TES has jumped the shark and the end is nigh) and there will never be those classic dwarves either. That's just the way it is. You might as well complain about the lack of flying saucers and little grey men in the Song of Ice and Fire.

- edit -
-Oh, and I actually kinda like the surly bearded nutters myself. I identify with them lot more than other classic fantasy trope races. Add I don't think Elder Scrolls is any better for the lack of them either. I mean we do have one of the most obnoxious and flanderised takes on typical hoity toity uppity high elves in TES. Having the classic dwarves would not make it any better or worse, in my opinion at least. It's just that they simply are not part of the world of Elder Scolls and do not belong in it. Adding them now would feel odd, forced, and utterly silly. That's jut how the cookie crumbles.

wishlist14

VaranisArano wrote: »

Er, one of the more unique features of the Elder Scrolls is that their "dwarves" are the Dwemer, and their disappearance is one of the central mysteries in the lore, being explored, but not really answered in TES 3 Morrowind.

I'm not really convinced we need a race designed to replace them.

I love this mystery please keep it as is.

Zama666

axi wrote: »

You say You respect that ESO is different then LOTR and then You prove You don't respect that at all.

Kind of stark realization!

#eyesopen

Zama666

Hymzir wrote: »

I guess it's been couple of weeks, since we had this topic pop up, so it's time to do this dance again. The end result is still the same as always - there are no dwarves in Elder Scrolls. Not the traditional belligerent drunken grudge bearing axe maniacs they've become in popular culture. There never were, and there never will.

And while both Beth and ZOS are not known to let established lore get in the way of a marketable idea, there are still some things that cross the line. They break product identity. Asking for stereotypical fantasy dwarves to be added into Elder Scolls, is like saying that Star Wars has a sore lack of Elvis impersonators and could really do with some.

The background and lore dealing with Dwemer has fluctuated, and will continue to do so, but we will never see them in game (and if we do, then we will know for sure that TES has jumped the shark and the end is nigh) and there will never be those classic dwarves either. That's just the way it is. You might as well complain about the lack of flying saucers and little grey men in the Song of Ice and Fire.

- edit -
-Oh, and I actually kinda like the surly bearded nutters myself. I identify with them lot more than other classic fantasy trope races. Add I don't think Elder Scrolls is any better for the lack of them either. I mean we do have one of the most obnoxious and flanderised takes on typical hoity toity uppity high elves in TES. Having the classic dwarves would not make it any better or worse, in my opinion at least. It's just that they simply are not part of the world of Elder Scolls and do not belong in it. Adding them now would feel odd, forced, and utterly silly. That's jut how the cookie crumbles.

BAHAHAHAHA!!!

Love this "typical hoity toity uppity high elves"!!!!!

Adernath

I would like to see some Dwemer at some point (for our lore enthusiasts: happened in a Dragon break) or Dwarf-like races from another continent.

The disappearance of the Dwemer is a mystery, but at some point I would like to see this mystery lifted by a good story insteaad of doing nothing lore-wise at all. And honestly I also don't care much if that was not yet written in the lore in later games. With some grain of salt it can be justified (remmber Dragons?).

Adernath

... and I would also see goblins introduced as playable race like imperials.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Adernath wrote: »

I would like to see some Dwemer at some point (for our lore enthusiasts: happened in a Dragon break) or Dwarf-like races from another continent.

The disappearance of the Dwemer is a mystery, but at some point I would like to see this mystery lifted by a good story insteaad of doing nothing lore-wise at all. And honestly I also don't care much if that was not yet written in the lore in later games. With some grain of salt it can be justified (remmber Dragons?).

The lore is Everything!

myskyrim26

Can we have Khajiit and Argonians in LOTR? No, because LOTR has its own unique lore. It can't be changed, it can't be violated - it is the LORE. It should be respected.

Now, why do you treat ESO lore as some unimportant thing that can be easily neglected and changed? Why you don't respect it as the lore of LOTR?

Actually, there are only 3 races in Tamriel. Mer, Men and Argonians. Mer were the first mortals who appeared in Tamriel. Khajiit, Bosmer, Altmer, Dwemer, Dunmer, Maormer, Falmer, Orsimer ALL share the same ansectors - Aldmer. Even Sloads are twisted Mer. Men appeared somewhat later. And there's a unique mysterious race of Argonians, who are neither Mer, nor Men.

Now, how can proper Dwarfs fit in? Can they be Mer? Or Men? Or Argonians?

Zama666

myskyrim26 wrote: »

Can we have Khajiit and Argonians in LOTR? No, because LOTR has its own unique lore. It can't be changed, it can't be violated - it is the LORE. It should be respected.

Now, why do you treat ESO lore as some unimportant thing that can be easily neglected and changed? Why you don't respect it as the lore of LOTR?

Actually, there are only 3 races in Tamriel. Mer, Men and Argonians. Mer were the first mortals who appeared in Tamriel. Khajiit, Bosmer, Altmer, Dwemer, Dunmer, Maormer, Falmer, Orsimer ALL share the same ansectors - Aldmer. Even Sloads are twisted Mer. Men appeared somewhat later. And there's a unique mysterious race of Argonians, who are neither Mer, nor Men.

Now, how can proper Dwarfs fit in? Can they be Mer? Or Men? Or Argonians?

Misunderstanding:

"Now, why do you treat ESO lore as some unimportant thing that can be easily neglected and changed? Why you don't respect it as the lore of LOTR?"

I do respect the Lore...my sarcasm did not come through. Been playing Oblivion/Morrowind for a long time. (Actually Ultimate 3 got me started on rpg via computer, before that, D&D - still have my dice!)

I did neglect the absolute effect of Lore on ESO.

ESO has Elves. Orcs. These are not unique to just LOTR. Yes, the Dwemer are gone (And elves) and they mystery continues - which I hope remains.

But a Dwarf would be a new race because ESO always expands. Where this fit in the lore would be tough - agreed. Failed Daedra experiment making a creature that will not serve and hides underground to avoid them for millenia? Ironically finding Dwemer ruins and using them to evolve or break out of a plane they fled to?

(Love Daedra!!! hmmmm)

Could it be a class? Big into engineering, creating weapons, armor and tools from the natural elements - steam weapons, crossbows, builders of ingenious outfits...

And yes, big fan of the Dwarves in LOTR.

But it does seem the majority of folks are against it.

However the conversation is amazing!

Tanks,

Z

Ratzkifal

Orcs are the craftsmen who love mining and Nords are the vikings who love a good drink. Both of them are axe-swinging barbarians that aren't that good with magic (on average). Bosmer are the small folk in Tamriel.
Pick your favorite.

DP99

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Orcs are the craftsmen who love mining and Nords are the vikings who love a good drink. Both of them are axe-swinging barbarians that aren't that good with magic (on average). Bosmer are the small folk in Tamriel.
Pick your favorite.

Yes, even the Orcs in ESO aren't your typical fantasy Orcs found in LOTR and D&D and such! Most Orcs are presented as the "Evil Enemy" race, and here they're "kust people" like everyone else. It's the goblins that take the more traditional "Evil Enemy" role here as separate from Orcs, where as in other fantasy properties, they're pretty much one and the same.

Zama666

I went with Imperial!

Love these Doods!

Chaos2088

Hey you never know they might add a complete separate race when we start going be beyond Tamriel that looks more like traditional dwarfs….a great work around from the dwemer. Hehe.

Adernath

myskyrim26 wrote: »

Now, why do you treat ESO lore as some unimportant thing that can be easily neglected and changed? Why you don't respect it as the lore of LOTR?

I do respect the lore, but Tamriel is not entire Nirn and in my opinion for good in-game story there should be certain parts in which the lore still has to be written. And I am not talking about lore in small scale but lore with larger impact, which also include new races.

The problem with the story in ESO is that it happens in the past of older ES-games. So there is not much room to maneouver lore-wise within Tamriel itself. In my opinion the only way to introduce new lore of the above kind would be to begin a dragon braek or discover a new continent (and ignore some of the lore of the older ES-titles, similar to how dragons were introduced).

Vevvev

Adernath wrote: »

myskyrim26 wrote: »

Now, why do you treat ESO lore as some unimportant thing that can be easily neglected and changed? Why you don't respect it as the lore of LOTR?

I do respect the lore, but Tamriel is not entire Nirn and in my opinion for good in-game story there should be certain parts in which the lore still has to be written. And I am not talking about lore in small scale but lore with larger impact, which also include new races.

The problem with the story in ESO is that it happens in the past of older ES-games. So there is not much room to maneouver lore-wise within Tamriel itself. In my opinion the only way to introduce new lore of the above kind would be to begin a dragon braek or discover a new continent (and ignore some of the lore of the older ES-titles, similar to how dragons were introduced).

Issue with Dragon Breaks is they are not what people think. People hear the concept and immediately think branching realities and alternate universes, but in Elder Scrolls lore that's not the case. They're documented events and have been recorded in history books where multiple possible events occur in a given area, but all of them are true. Like in Daggerfall every faction won but they also didn't. Using a Dragon Break to suddenly create short stubby "dwarves" would end up breaking the lore of what a Dragon Break is as then we'd have to take their existence as canon in the timeline.

Slimebrow

Dwarfs or Dwemer have been long extinct in game, not sure you played any of the TES games but they explain it and clues as to what might have happened to them or were they could have gone.

IMO they should stay a mystery, sorry dont know what to tell you dude.

Zama666

Flubbles wrote: »

Dwarfs or Dwemer have been long extinct in game, not sure you played any of the TES games but they explain it and clues as to what might have happened to them or were they could have gone.

IMO they should stay a mystery, sorry dont know what to tell you dude.

True, Dwemer should not return. But maybe dwarves - the results of an experiment of the Dwemer......ok, too far fetched.

And the Dwemer stuff is amazing! Love any dungeon with their contructs. Love hunting for the pieces to make make the target dummies...but so $$$$ and should remain so. A cool skill line for the future?

Senaru

VaranisArano wrote: »

Er, one of the more unique features of the Elder Scrolls is that their "dwarves" are the Dwemer, and their disappearance is one of the central mysteries in the lore, being explored, but not really answered in TES 3 Morrowind.

I'm not really convinced we need a race designed to replace them.

Zenimax should add the dwemer mystery disappearance answered because i can't see bethesda doing that we have many mysteries in real life that haunt us we don't need unsolved mysteries in games as long as we left our last breath games are for fun and story i don't see what's the problem to unsolve the mystery and give an answer to their disappearance [snip] elder scrolls have one of the best stories out there and it must be covered and the online game came out and its the only one that can add everything it will be the bigger disk space game in history but it will be the best

[edited for bashing]

hands0medevil

Zama666 wrote: »

Yes, ESO is different that LOTR, and I REALLY REALLY respect that!

I love Khajit and Argonian are so unique to this game. Really ....love it!

But why not a proper Dwarf...not Dwemer. Or maybe Dwermer are the previous incarnation of the Dwarves before they became what they are (superior) and left.

Can't we get a few them? Maybe they were in cryogenic storage (Frost ability)?

Make then hardy warriors, craft people, magic/poison resistant. But maybe not great with Magicka. Make them fall off mounts easier. But giant classes they are harder to hit.
And boy do they love mining and creating jewelry, and suck at pizza.

Or what are thoughts do you have to share?

Enough races?
Something more unique?


Tanks!

Z

for the same reason there are no khajiits and argonians in LOTR...L-O-R-E

Ratzkifal

Senaru wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Er, one of the more unique features of the Elder Scrolls is that their "dwarves" are the Dwemer, and their disappearance is one of the central mysteries in the lore, being explored, but not really answered in TES 3 Morrowind.

I'm not really convinced we need a race designed to replace them.

Zenimax should add the dwemer mystery disappearance answered because i can't see bethesda doing that we have many mysteries in real life that haunt us we don't need unsolved mysteries in games as long as we left our last breath games are for fun and story i don't see what's the problem to unsolve the mystery and give an answer to their disappearance [snip] elder scrolls have one of the best stories out there and it must be covered and the online game came out and its the only one that can add everything it will be the bigger disk space game in history but it will be the best

@Senaru Zenimax should not add the dwemer mystery disappearance answered because ESO is a prequel to the other games so whatever ESO reveals should be solved already in the other games meaning that ESO revealing the mystery of the Dwemer disappearance invalidates all the Skyrim dialogue saying that its a mystery and nobody knows so it really doesn't make any logical sense and would actually ruin the story rather than adding fun also Bethesda still has the final say on major lore decisions so even if ZOS wanted to Bethesda could block them and considering that Bethesda hasn't solved the mystery yet I doubt they would let ZOS solve it and let's not forget that the only reason you are here discussing this topic is because it is still a mystery and not common knowledge like how nobody is talking about how the stars are holes into aetherius because everybody knows that and there isn't much left to be revealed as the more is revealed about a thing the "smaller" and mundane it becomes so it's good that there are unsolved mysteries in this world otherwise we'd all stopped talking about the dwemer disappearance in 2002 which actually makes this fantasy world feel "large" exciting and fresh even after so many years

Please use at least a little bit of punctuation.

[edited to remove quote]

Peacatcher

I doubt we will ever learn what really happened to the Dwemer. The mystery was introduced decades ago and people are still coming up with new theories today.

They may add new red herrings to fuel the debate. Its too much of a talking point so they wont give us a canon answer.

Zama666

Lugaldu wrote: »

This is not meant as a criticism, but personally I don't understand why I should question the fact that there are no "traditional" dwarfs (as we know them from other fantasy worlds and fairy tales) in ESO at all. The lore from ESO offers me a somehow independent/unique world with its own creatures and I have fun with it as it is. The other way around, I also don't ask why there are no Sloads in LOTR.

From my perspective it is because we have traditional elves. To me it follows, have Dwarves.

And agreed they are not in the lore, shoe horning them in, would be odd.

Out all the races though...I Love the Daedra!