Shouldn't Kwama be Chitinous creatures?

spartaxoxo

It's the endeavor to kill those kinds so I killed some Kwama, didn't count. Dreugh and Mudcrabs do though, fyi

WithMyLaserGun

Yeah I think Shalks should be too tbh.

ghost_bg_ESO

mudcrabs count (stros m'kai - farming nodes + chitinous)

Edit:
as for should they count - kwama was my first assumption too...

spartaxoxo

ghost_bg_ESO wrote: »

mudcrabs count (stros m'kai - farming nodes + chitinous)

Yes. I'm aware. I say this in the OP. I already did this with the Dreugh at Dreughside near Wayrest. I'm moreso asking why Kwama wouldn't be included given that I'm fairly sure them being Chintinous creatures is part of the lore.

https://esoitem.uesp.net/itemLink.php?&itemid=126167&level=1&quality=2

Like that's a treasure in-game and in Blades entire armor sets is made from it.

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Blades:Chitin

Edit:



Here's another lore reference to the Kwama chitin.

SidraWillowsky

It's because ESO ruined kwama (especially scribs) and turned them into gross arachnids.

I'll never forgive ZOS for what they did to my little chitinous bois

Ratzkifal

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

It's because ESO ruined kwama (especially scribs) and turned them into gross arachnids.

I'll never forgive ZOS for what they did to my little chitinous bois

Arachnids are also chitinous bois. Crabs are arachnids after all.

The lables for these endeavors are very very unclear. All sorts of enemies are not considered "Beasts" either. Only mammals, however Trolls which look like mammals are not considered beasts. I would argue any dangerous animal is a beast.

SidraWillowsky

Ratzkifal wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

It's because ESO ruined kwama (especially scribs) and turned them into gross arachnids.

I'll never forgive ZOS for what they did to my little chitinous bois

Arachnids are also chitinous bois. Crabs are arachnids after all.

The lables for these endeavors are very very unclear. All sorts of enemies are not considered "Beasts" either. Only mammals, however Trolls which look like mammals are not considered beasts. I would argue any dangerous animal is a beast.

Ahh, good point... I'll change that to "gross spider things" then.

And yeah, it's very confusing... sometimes I have to run around killing random stuff to figure out what qualifies.

Ratzkifal

Lol, apparently Dunerippers are "chitinous creatures" when they are clearly reptiles and should not have chitin but rather keratin.

waterfairy

Ratzkifal wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

It's because ESO ruined kwama (especially scribs) and turned them into gross arachnids.

I'll never forgive ZOS for what they did to my little chitinous bois

Arachnids are also chitinous bois. Crabs are arachnids after all.

The lables for these endeavors are very very unclear. All sorts of enemies are not considered "Beasts" either. Only mammals, however Trolls which look like mammals are not considered beasts. I would argue any dangerous animal is a beast.

I assume "beasts" are all 4 legged dangerous animals like wolves, bears, etc

As for "chitinous" the 1st thing that comes to mind is chaurus followed by dreugh and crabs

Ratzkifal

The reason Kwama don't count as "chitinous creatures" is because they are already considered "insectoid", which is silly as insects have carapaces made of chitin.

That makes me wonder if Guars are considered reptiles or bird-like (like the dinosaurs).

ZOS needs a zoologist on their team.

waterfairy

Ratzkifal wrote: »

The reason Kwama don't count as "chitinous creatures" is because they are already considered "insectoid", which is silly as insects have carapaces made of chitin.

That makes me wonder if Guars are considered reptiles or bird-like (like the dinosaurs).

ZOS needs a zoologist on their team.

if we're breaking the 4th wall then fungi also have chitin so picking mushrooms in game should count

EF321

What bothers me is that they can have "chitinous", "humanoid", "bestial daedra" and such conditions for endeavors, yet fighter guild bonus damage against vampires and werewolves is a performance hit and will be removed next patch.

AcadianPaladin

I wondered the same thing as OP. Tried shalks and kwama with no luck before combat with dreugh and mudcrabs gave me the endeavor. Didn't get to test spiders, scorpions, assassin beetles. Didn't test dunerippers either but, based on a post above, it seems like they count. According to BenevolentBowd's website, yaghra also count.

Sylvermynx

'nother oddity: nix-oxen count, nix-hounds don't. They both drop "carapace"....

cyclonus11

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Arachnids are also chitinous bois. Crabs are arachnids after all.

Crabs are crustaceans, not arachnids. They are more closely related to insects!

Ratzkifal

cyclonus11 wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Arachnids are also chitinous bois. Crabs are arachnids after all.

Crabs are crustaceans, not arachnids. They are more closely related to insects!

I've just done some googling and the subject is a lot more complex and controversial than I've realized.
Crabs are indeed crustaceans and I had "arachnids" confused for "arthropods", which crustaceans are a part of.

However hexapods, the group that insects belong to, are also arthropods and arachnids are a subgroup of the "Chelicerata" which are also arthropods. Then there are also the myriapods (centipedes and stuff). It's unclear how these groups are related to one another because we don't have enough fossils of the time when these groups diverged.
So, I don't think anyone can confidently claim right now they are more closely related to insects or spiders.

starkerealm

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Lol, apparently Dunerippers are "chitinous creatures" when they are clearly reptiles and should not have chitin but rather keratin.

This is kinda both true and untrue at the same time. There's a few creatures on Tamriel that don't follow any real world taxonomy, so while the Dunerippers appear to be reptiles, it's possible they do produce chitin unlike all real world reptiles.

spartaxoxo

Ratzkifal wrote: »

The reason Kwama don't count as "chitinous creatures" is because they are already considered "insectoid", which is silly as insects have carapaces made of chitin.

That makes me wonder if Guars are considered reptiles or bird-like (like the dinosaurs).

ZOS needs a zoologist on their team.

Well that's doubly annoying then, because Kwama being farmed for their various parts is like some of the biggest amount of lore and impact on the game of any of the non-daedric creatures.

The cuttle, the chitin, the wax, the eggs, all important to Dunmer society. Dunmer and the Kwama farming are so important to the lore that there are multiple Kwama mines the Vestige interacts with. So if they were gonna have an endeavor that told you to kill foes with one of these parts (in this case, Chitin) then the Kwama should count. If they can only count for one of those things, then it should be that one. This element of them is super important for the lore. It'd be like Dragons not counting for flying foes because they already counted them as reptilian or whatever.

cynicalbutterfly

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

The reason Kwama don't count as "chitinous creatures" is because they are already considered "insectoid", which is silly as insects have carapaces made of chitin.

That makes me wonder if Guars are considered reptiles or bird-like (like the dinosaurs).

ZOS needs a zoologist on their team.

Well that's doubly annoying then, because Kwama being farmed for their various parts is like some of the biggest amount of lore and impact on the game of any of the non-daedric creatures.

The cuttle, the chitin, the wax, the eggs, all important to Dunmer society. Dunmer and the Kwama farming are so important to the lore that there are multiple Kwama mines the Vestige interacts with. So if they were gonna have an endeavor that told you to kill foes with one of these parts (in this Chitin) then the Kwama should count. If they can only count for one of those things, then it should be that one. This element of them is super important for the lore. It'd be like Dragons not counting for flying foes because they already counted them as reptilian or whatever.

This right here. We're told time after time that kwama are farmed for chitin, eggs, cuttle, etc. It's in the lore ffs. But yet they don't count for the endeavor.

Only possible reason I see for this is to make it harder to do the endeavor. Either that or someone goofed and needs to be slapped. Hard with a kwama chitin.

spartaxoxo

Can anyone at ZOS speak to why this is the case and why some of the endeavors are so unimmersive? We need justice for our little chitinous bois

NotaDaedraWorshipper

#kwamaarechitinoustoo

nightstrike

cynicalbutterfly wrote: »

Only possible reason I see for this is to make it harder to do the endeavor. Either that or someone goofed and needs to be slapped. Hard with a kwama chitin.

I don't think that's the only possible cause. My guess is that the people working on this part of the game just aren't as familiar with the game lore. I don't find that acceptable, personally, but I do find it possible.

There's really no excuse, given how detailed and accurate uesp is. IMO, if you're going to be designing something in the Elder Scrolls universe, a prerequisite is that you've played all 5 main games, their expansions, and some of the offshoot games to death.

Jaraal

Ratzkifal wrote: »

That makes me wonder if Guars are considered reptiles or bird-like (like the dinosaurs).

Guars are domesticated fowl, as they drop poultry when killed.

EF321 wrote: »

What bothers me is that they can have "chitinous", "humanoid", "bestial daedra" and such conditions for endeavors, yet fighter guild bonus damage against vampires and werewolves is a performance hit and will be removed next patch.

Touché.

starkerealm

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Only possible reason I see for this is to make it harder to do the endeavor. Either that or someone goofed and needs to be slapped. Hard with a kwama chitin.

Alternately, "chitinous," is meant to refer to arthropods, while the kwama are insectoids.

Hurbster

Good job we don't have camel spiders.

Ratzkifal

starkerealm wrote: »

cynicalbutterfly wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

The reason Kwama don't count as "chitinous creatures" is because they are already considered "insectoid", which is silly as insects have carapaces made of chitin.

That makes me wonder if Guars are considered reptiles or bird-like (like the dinosaurs).

ZOS needs a zoologist on their team.

Well that's doubly annoying then, because Kwama being farmed for their various parts is like some of the biggest amount of lore and impact on the game of any of the non-daedric creatures.

The cuttle, the chitin, the wax, the eggs, all important to Dunmer society. Dunmer and the Kwama farming are so important to the lore that there are multiple Kwama mines the Vestige interacts with. So if they were gonna have an endeavor that told you to kill foes with one of these parts (in this Chitin) then the Kwama should count. If they can only count for one of those things, then it should be that one. This element of them is super important for the lore. It'd be like Dragons not counting for flying foes because they already counted them as reptilian or whatever.

This right here. We're told time after time that kwama are farmed for chitin, eggs, cuttle, etc. It's in the lore ffs. But yet they don't count for the endeavor.

Only possible reason I see for this is to make it harder to do the endeavor. Either that or someone goofed and needs to be slapped. Hard with a kwama chitin.

Alternately, "chitinous," is meant to refer to arthropods, while the kwama are insectoids.

Fixed your misquote. Also, unless "insectoids" are not insects, they are also still arthropods. We had that discussion earlier already. Arthropods are the combination of Hexapods (which includes all insects), Chelicerata (which includes spiders), Myriapods (which includes centipedes) and Crustaceans (crabs, shrimps etc).

ZOS definitely needs to take another look at these categories of theirs, because no matter how you turn it, as long as they are using real-life terminology, it's going to cause needless confusion and inconsistency. I can live with Beasts only referring to mammals, but animals harvested for their chitin should definitely count as "chitinous".

Kiralyn2000

I'd guess that someone got told "stick some mobs into each of these categories", and that things couldn't be in multiple ones.

(That'd be the real solution - let them put things in more than one set. So actual bugs could be in Insects and Chitinous. Well, or just get rid of one of the two, and come up with something else that doesn't overlap so much.)

spartaxoxo

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

I'd guess that someone got told "stick some mobs into each of these categories", and that things couldn't be in multiple ones.

(That'd be the real solution - let them put things in more than one set. So actual bugs could be in Insects and Chitinous. Well, or just get rid of one of the two, and come up with something else that doesn't overlap so much.)

Yeah. Hopefully the next time this endeavor comes around they'll have done a solution like this one.

spartaxoxo

Does anyone know if they ever ran this endeavor again?

spartaxoxo

So they finally ran this endeavor again, and I am sad to report this is still not fixed.

Ippokrates

And once again I forget to check if Redoran soldiers are counted as a chitinous creature XD