PVP Bow Gank - What pairs well with Swamp Raider?

BXR_Lonestar

I'm playing around with a new poison oriented bow ganker build which uses Swamp Raider, Sheer Venom, and Balorgs, and even though I had some success the last couple of nights, I'm not sure how I feel about sheer venom. I think it helps when I use poison injection when they're under 50% health, but it seems like its offering little to no benefit outside of that situation, so I'm curious of what other sets people have tried to pair with Swamp Raider.

Other sets I'm considering:
venomous smite for AOE poison proc;
Witch Knight - extra damage when target is poisoned (but may be bugged)
Morag Tong - 10% extra poison damage (helps my bow gank partner too)
Champion of the Hist - this would be jewelry/weapons, but would allow me to generate ultimate w/o having to get into the thick of fighting, which would be good because my bow gank is a glass cannon.

I know some of this choice is going to be based on play style, but I'm just trying to brainstorm to see what other good alternatives there are to Sheer Venom. Or perhaps if you are a fan of sheer venom, you can tell me why I'm giving up too early on this set

itscompton

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I'm playing around with a new poison oriented bow ganker build which uses Swamp Raider, Sheer Venom, and Balorgs, and even though I had some success the last couple of nights, I'm not sure how I feel about sheer venom. I think it helps when I use poison injection when they're under 50% health, but it seems like its offering little to no benefit outside of that situation, so I'm curious of what other sets people have tried to pair with Swamp Raider.

Other sets I'm considering:
venomous smite for AOE poison proc;
Witch Knight - extra damage when target is poisoned (but may be bugged)
Morag Tong - 10% extra poison damage (helps my bow gank partner too)
Champion of the Hist - this would be jewelry/weapons, but would allow me to generate ultimate w/o having to get into the thick of fighting, which would be good because my bow gank is a glass cannon.

I know some of this choice is going to be based on play style, but I'm just trying to brainstorm to see what other good alternatives there are to Sheer Venom. Or perhaps if you are a fan of sheer venom, you can tell me why I'm giving up too early on this set

If you're just trying to get good Ganks and want a really strong opener try running Deadly Strike and using Toxic Barrage. There are very few people who can react to a 500 ulti Balorgh buffed TB from stealth in time to save themselves. It's about 15K DPS each second for 4 seconds to the average player and then leaves a DOT hitting for another 6-8K DPS for 8 seconds.
If someone does live through the 4 second channel I can usually get the kill just by fearing them as soon as it stops.

BXR_Lonestar

itscompton wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I'm playing around with a new poison oriented bow ganker build which uses Swamp Raider, Sheer Venom, and Balorgs, and even though I had some success the last couple of nights, I'm not sure how I feel about sheer venom. I think it helps when I use poison injection when they're under 50% health, but it seems like its offering little to no benefit outside of that situation, so I'm curious of what other sets people have tried to pair with Swamp Raider.

Other sets I'm considering:
venomous smite for AOE poison proc;
Witch Knight - extra damage when target is poisoned (but may be bugged)
Morag Tong - 10% extra poison damage (helps my bow gank partner too)
Champion of the Hist - this would be jewelry/weapons, but would allow me to generate ultimate w/o having to get into the thick of fighting, which would be good because my bow gank is a glass cannon.

I know some of this choice is going to be based on play style, but I'm just trying to brainstorm to see what other good alternatives there are to Sheer Venom. Or perhaps if you are a fan of sheer venom, you can tell me why I'm giving up too early on this set

If you're just trying to get good Ganks and want a really strong opener try running Deadly Strike and using Toxic Barrage. There are very few people who can react to a 500 ulti Balorgh buffed TB from stealth in time to save themselves. It's about 15K DPS each second for 4 seconds to the average player and then leaves a DOT hitting for another 6-8K DPS for 8 seconds.
If someone does live through the 4 second channel I can usually get the kill just by fearing them as soon as it stops.

I am looking for a better opener or a better way to increase that initial damage, since the build seems to be stronger on the back end (when below 50% health) than the front end. Does Deadly boost the initial damage of Toxic Barrage or just the DoT after? I looked at deadly, but it seemed like it would only boost the DoT portion and not the overall damage.

Also, if I always want to open with my toxic barrage, it seems like running something like Champion of the Hist would be good, because I could use my ult more, which seems to be the strongest part of this build. But that was just a thought.

mocap

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

the build seems to be stronger on the back end (when below 50% health) than the front end

then it's more about burst combo rather than sets. Best ones is "range to melee" combos.

Lethal Arrow + Ambush + Surpise Attack
Lethal Arrow (melee) + Incap + Surpise Attack

Or full range:
Lethal Arrow + Lethal Arrow + Silver Shards + Poision Injection + LA.

Also you can use Calurion set with Swamp Raider as well. Jewelry + Bow, obviously.

itscompton

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I'm playing around with a new poison oriented bow ganker build which uses Swamp Raider, Sheer Venom, and Balorgs, and even though I had some success the last couple of nights, I'm not sure how I feel about sheer venom. I think it helps when I use poison injection when they're under 50% health, but it seems like its offering little to no benefit outside of that situation, so I'm curious of what other sets people have tried to pair with Swamp Raider.

Other sets I'm considering:
venomous smite for AOE poison proc;
Witch Knight - extra damage when target is poisoned (but may be bugged)
Morag Tong - 10% extra poison damage (helps my bow gank partner too)
Champion of the Hist - this would be jewelry/weapons, but would allow me to generate ultimate w/o having to get into the thick of fighting, which would be good because my bow gank is a glass cannon.

I know some of this choice is going to be based on play style, but I'm just trying to brainstorm to see what other good alternatives there are to Sheer Venom. Or perhaps if you are a fan of sheer venom, you can tell me why I'm giving up too early on this set

If you're just trying to get good Ganks and want a really strong opener try running Deadly Strike and using Toxic Barrage. There are very few people who can react to a 500 ulti Balorgh buffed TB from stealth in time to save themselves. It's about 15K DPS each second for 4 seconds to the average player and then leaves a DOT hitting for another 6-8K DPS for 8 seconds.
If someone does live through the 4 second channel I can usually get the kill just by fearing them as soon as it stops.

I am looking for a better opener or a better way to increase that initial damage, since the build seems to be stronger on the back end (when below 50% health) than the front end. Does Deadly boost the initial damage of Toxic Barrage or just the DoT after? I looked at deadly, but it seemed like it would only boost the DoT portion and not the overall damage.

Also, if I always want to open with my toxic barrage, it seems like running something like Champion of the Hist would be good, because I could use my ult more, which seems to be the strongest part of this build. But that was just a thought.

The initial 4 seconds are a channel and deadly buffs them as well. I wouldn't trade either deadly or swamp raider for champion of the hist because it would mean a huge drop in the damage of toxic barrage.
That amount of damage will be overkill on many people but it allows you to gank almost anyone. If you drop that damage down a lot more people will be able to react in time to survive.
The Ulti is definitely the strongest part of the build but Acid Spray hit's pretty hard with it's DD buffed by Swamp Raider and the Dot buffed by both. And once someone drops to 25-30% the execute scaling means you can weave Poison Injection as a hard hitting spammable. I often open with TB then do an Acid Spray and one PI weave for the kill if they try to run. If they come at me I fear them then weave LA+Surprise Attack and finish with Whirling blades/Executioner. NB has such good base damage that things like SA still hit pretty hard even though the 5 piece bonuses aren't boosting their damage.

gariondavey

itscompton wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I'm playing around with a new poison oriented bow ganker build which uses Swamp Raider, Sheer Venom, and Balorgs, and even though I had some success the last couple of nights, I'm not sure how I feel about sheer venom. I think it helps when I use poison injection when they're under 50% health, but it seems like its offering little to no benefit outside of that situation, so I'm curious of what other sets people have tried to pair with Swamp Raider.

Other sets I'm considering:
venomous smite for AOE poison proc;
Witch Knight - extra damage when target is poisoned (but may be bugged)
Morag Tong - 10% extra poison damage (helps my bow gank partner too)
Champion of the Hist - this would be jewelry/weapons, but would allow me to generate ultimate w/o having to get into the thick of fighting, which would be good because my bow gank is a glass cannon.

I know some of this choice is going to be based on play style, but I'm just trying to brainstorm to see what other good alternatives there are to Sheer Venom. Or perhaps if you are a fan of sheer venom, you can tell me why I'm giving up too early on this set

If you're just trying to get good Ganks and want a really strong opener try running Deadly Strike and using Toxic Barrage. There are very few people who can react to a 500 ulti Balorgh buffed TB from stealth in time to save themselves. It's about 15K DPS each second for 4 seconds to the average player and then leaves a DOT hitting for another 6-8K DPS for 8 seconds.
If someone does live through the 4 second channel I can usually get the kill just by fearing them as soon as it stops.

I am looking for a better opener or a better way to increase that initial damage, since the build seems to be stronger on the back end (when below 50% health) than the front end. Does Deadly boost the initial damage of Toxic Barrage or just the DoT after? I looked at deadly, but it seemed like it would only boost the DoT portion and not the overall damage.

Also, if I always want to open with my toxic barrage, it seems like running something like Champion of the Hist would be good, because I could use my ult more, which seems to be the strongest part of this build. But that was just a thought.

The initial 4 seconds are a channel and deadly buffs them as well. I wouldn't trade either deadly or swamp raider for champion of the hist because it would mean a huge drop in the damage of toxic barrage.
That amount of damage will be overkill on many people but it allows you to gank almost anyone. If you drop that damage down a lot more people will be able to react in time to survive.
The Ulti is definitely the strongest part of the build but Acid Spray hit's pretty hard with it's DD buffed by Swamp Raider and the Dot buffed by both. And once someone drops to 25-30% the execute scaling means you can weave Poison Injection as a hard hitting spammable. I often open with TB then do an Acid Spray and one PI weave for the kill if they try to run. If they come at me I fear them then weave LA+Surprise Attack and finish with Whirling blades/Executioner. NB has such good base damage that things like SA still hit pretty hard even though the 5 piece bonuses aren't boosting their damage.
Also do keep in mind that Incap is a .3 second channel and does disease damage so it would also benefit from Deadly.

Incap has a cast time. So does snipe. This is NOT channeled, and therefore does not get a buff from deadly.

itscompton

gariondavey wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I'm playing around with a new poison oriented bow ganker build which uses Swamp Raider, Sheer Venom, and Balorgs, and even though I had some success the last couple of nights, I'm not sure how I feel about sheer venom. I think it helps when I use poison injection when they're under 50% health, but it seems like its offering little to no benefit outside of that situation, so I'm curious of what other sets people have tried to pair with Swamp Raider.

Other sets I'm considering:
venomous smite for AOE poison proc;
Witch Knight - extra damage when target is poisoned (but may be bugged)
Morag Tong - 10% extra poison damage (helps my bow gank partner too)
Champion of the Hist - this would be jewelry/weapons, but would allow me to generate ultimate w/o having to get into the thick of fighting, which would be good because my bow gank is a glass cannon.

I know some of this choice is going to be based on play style, but I'm just trying to brainstorm to see what other good alternatives there are to Sheer Venom. Or perhaps if you are a fan of sheer venom, you can tell me why I'm giving up too early on this set

If you're just trying to get good Ganks and want a really strong opener try running Deadly Strike and using Toxic Barrage. There are very few people who can react to a 500 ulti Balorgh buffed TB from stealth in time to save themselves. It's about 15K DPS each second for 4 seconds to the average player and then leaves a DOT hitting for another 6-8K DPS for 8 seconds.
If someone does live through the 4 second channel I can usually get the kill just by fearing them as soon as it stops.

I am looking for a better opener or a better way to increase that initial damage, since the build seems to be stronger on the back end (when below 50% health) than the front end. Does Deadly boost the initial damage of Toxic Barrage or just the DoT after? I looked at deadly, but it seemed like it would only boost the DoT portion and not the overall damage.

Also, if I always want to open with my toxic barrage, it seems like running something like Champion of the Hist would be good, because I could use my ult more, which seems to be the strongest part of this build. But that was just a thought.

The initial 4 seconds are a channel and deadly buffs them as well. I wouldn't trade either deadly or swamp raider for champion of the hist because it would mean a huge drop in the damage of toxic barrage.
That amount of damage will be overkill on many people but it allows you to gank almost anyone. If you drop that damage down a lot more people will be able to react in time to survive.
The Ulti is definitely the strongest part of the build but Acid Spray hit's pretty hard with it's DD buffed by Swamp Raider and the Dot buffed by both. And once someone drops to 25-30% the execute scaling means you can weave Poison Injection as a hard hitting spammable. I often open with TB then do an Acid Spray and one PI weave for the kill if they try to run. If they come at me I fear them then weave LA+Surprise Attack and finish with Whirling blades/Executioner. NB has such good base damage that things like SA still hit pretty hard even though the 5 piece bonuses aren't boosting their damage.
Also do keep in mind that Incap is a .3 second channel and does disease damage so it would also benefit from Deadly.

Incap has a cast time. So does snipe. This is NOT channeled, and therefore does not get a buff from deadly.

Oh yeah, my bad, you're right on Incap. I just went ahead and deleted the stupid out of my posting.

Brrrofski

If you want straight up gank power, night mother's gaze and mechanical accuity.

Khajit, shadow, channeled acceleration. Slot evil hunter. Backstabber cp and the crit damage one.

Hit people from behind and it's gg for most people.

Ippokrates

Idea is good, but better take balista morph, because toxic barrage is to easy to roll. Plus you can attack (that can easy compensate weaker dmg) and roll while balista is attacking and only way to avoid is to cut LoS. With TB you are stuck for 4 sec and in pvp it is a long.

When it comes to sets, Morag Tong is nice when you already have nice dmg. But to get that I would recommend Diamond's Victory (almost 700 dmg for skills & LA/HA - swamp gives little more but only to skills). You can easy get range supremacy even outside of melee range with 1st Grim Focus, Siphoning Attacks, Blur/Evade or Shade.

itscompton

Ippokrates wrote: »

Idea is good, but better take balista morph, because toxic barrage is to easy to roll. Plus you can attack (that can easy compensate weaker dmg) and roll while balista is attacking and only way to avoid is to cut LoS. With TB you are stuck for 4 sec and in pvp it is a long.

When it comes to sets, Morag Tong is nice when you already have nice dmg. But to get that I would recommend Diamond's Victory (almost 700 dmg for skills & LA/HA - swamp gives little more but only to skills). You can easy get range supremacy even outside of melee range with 1st Grim Focus, Siphoning Attacks, Blur/Evade or Shade.

It's not a theory, it's something I've used with quite a bit of success. I'm sure ballista could work as well but even rolly polly med armor builds die to TB if they don't manage to dodge roll every single tick of the channel and get the Dot on them. If they dodge 3/4 of a ballista channel they're all good, if 1/4 of the TB channel hits someone using dodge roll as their mitigation they'll be stuck with an undodgeable DOT hitting for 6-8K per second for 8 seconds after the channel is over.

Ippokrates

itscompton wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

Idea is good, but better take balista morph, because toxic barrage is to easy to roll. Plus you can attack (that can easy compensate weaker dmg) and roll while balista is attacking and only way to avoid is to cut LoS. With TB you are stuck for 4 sec and in pvp it is a long.

When it comes to sets, Morag Tong is nice when you already have nice dmg. But to get that I would recommend Diamond's Victory (almost 700 dmg for skills & LA/HA - swamp gives little more but only to skills). You can easy get range supremacy even outside of melee range with 1st Grim Focus, Siphoning Attacks, Blur/Evade or Shade.

It's not a theory, it's something I've used with quite a bit of success. I'm sure ballista could work as well but even rolly polly med armor builds die to TB if they don't manage to dodge roll every single tick of the channel and get the Dot on them. If they dodge 3/4 of a ballista channel they're all good, if 1/4 of the TB channel hits someone using dodge roll as their mitigation they'll be stuck with an undodgeable DOT hitting for 6-8K per second for 8 seconds after the channel is over.

Yeah, i did it too. And had much better results with balista, especially in Cyro.

milllaurie

With ballista you can fear the person DURING the channel and make them eat it whole 😉.

Nogawd

I'm using Swamp and Tong right now and enjoying it. Also using a Black Rose bow.

His hard and many win retreat as their health ticks down and eventually die.

itscompton

milllaurie wrote: »

With ballista you can fear the person DURING the channel and make them eat it whole 😉.

The thing is even ignoring the huge buff it gets from the Swamp Raider set Toxic Barrage starts out with a higher tooltip on the upfront damage + has the very strong after DOT and with the SR buff it's almost double the damage; so trying to get in enough damage with other skills during the four seconds to make up the difference let alone exceed TB's damage is nearly impossible, especially if you waste a GCD on a fear.