Antiquity Leads from Trials, Arenas, and Group Dungeons

Chalinal

Hello everyone,

I would like to propose that antiquity leads that drop from Trials, Arenas, and Group Dungeons be a 100% drop rate.

I am proposing this due to the difficulty of acquisition as well as the immense time-consumption required for these activities.

Where I am coming from:

• I have found and dug up every antiquity lead in the game thus far with the exception of the "Antique Map of Blackwood" furnishing (because the lead is not available for purchase from Blackwood innkeepers/general merchants in-game yet...). EDIT: Got "Preserved Wraxu Feathers" (from Remains-Silent, The Bequeather - equipment option - 20 hour cooldown) lead today (7/29). So I can appreciate the need to grind/farm and not have everything be instant gratification.
• Trials, Arenas, and Group Dungeons are very time-consuming. Not only do you need to get a group of players together (either 4 players or 12 players), but you also have to successfully complete the Trial/Arena/Group Dungeon as these antiquity leads only drop from the final boss/chest.
• To acquire the "Sturdy Silver Prongs" lead from Dragonstar Arena, I had to form groups and complete the Arena a total of 5 times (two normal DSA runs, three veteran DSA runs). Normal DSA took about 45 minutes per run (with a knowledgeable group) and Veteran DSA took about 1 hour and 20 minutes per run (with a knowledgeable group). This does not include the 15-30 minutes it took before each run to find players to form a group. The "Altar of Celestial Convergence" lead from the Craglorn Trials took similar amounts of time to acquire.
• Group Dungeons are only slightly easier to farm in that you can utilize the Dungeon Finder to form groups for the specific Group Dungeons that you need to farm leads for, but it is still upsetting that you have to potentially run the same Group Dungeon 30+ times to acquire the antiquity lead (I know some people that have run over 100 times in the same Group Dungeon and still don't have the lead from it).
• Many players, including myself, have life and work outside of this game - making time availability for multiple and repetitive runs of Trials, Arenas, and Group Dungeons extremely hard to come by. Again, I still appreciate the need to grind/farm to get what you want in this game, but some things - like Antiquity Leads from Trials, Arenas, and Group Dungeons - should be easier to acquire. This allows those players that already enjoy the Antiquity system to experience it to the fullest and not deal with too much frustration/discouragement. This also allows those that have been deterred from the nightmare stories of farming the same Trials, Arenas, and Group Dungeons for a single lead to be more open to experiencing the Antiquity system.

If you feel the same, please comment below and react to the post so that it gets seen by those that can make it happen!

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

trackdemon5512

When introduced antiquity leads were so easy to get that the gear and furnishings started to accumulate drastically. The rare stuff wasn’t actually rare.

With the introduction of reconstruction you really only need to get an antiquity once. They were designed to funnel players towards older content and be rare.

I understand frustration with not instantly getting an item but it’s part of the artificial rarity. The same frustration was experienced by all for vma infernos, burning Spellweave destros, vicious Ophidian daggers, etc. You just have to accept it.

Treeshka

Drops should not be always guaranteed, but if the instance is completed in its hardest configuration it should be a guaranteed drop. This is similar to the motifs that drop from dungeons, you always get a drop if you complete it in hard mode difficulty.

kargen27

Treeshka wrote: »

Drops should not be always guaranteed, but if the instance is completed in its hardest configuration it should be a guaranteed drop. This is similar to the motifs that drop from dungeons, you always get a drop if you complete it in hard mode difficulty.

Not quite the same. Usually only one lead associated with a trial or dungeon. Sometimes a couple. All kinds of gear associated with trials and dungeons. You get a drop but it could be the sword for the nineteenth time instead of the dagger that you want.

EF321

As with everything, it's an RNG factor. Doing entire trial with randoms is an ok condition, problem is that it can drop on first try, or it can not drop after 20 tries.

There really should be some sort of pity timer, where you are guaranteed drop after x tries, but can still get on first if you are lucky.

I don't like this mentality that "It is MMO, therefore you must grind over and over. Because it's MMO". Yeah early MMOs used to be like that, because technology was limited. Nothing in term MMORPG suggest grinding is an obligatory element, it suggest that you should roleplay with lots of people.

Pauwer

I agree with op, they are too hard to get when obtained from group activity. They are hard to get in other situations too, was some lead for malacath ring from bethnik monsters? That was utterly horrible to get. Imagine the same rng for dungeon, arena and trial drops. Personally i wont even bother, too much work in a past-time activity that is supposed to be my free time, away from work.

Chalinal

Pauwer wrote: »

I agree with op, they are too hard to get when obtained from group activity. They are hard to get in other situations too, was some lead for malacath ring from bethnik monsters? That was utterly horrible to get. Imagine the same rng for dungeon, arena and trial drops. Personally i wont even bother, too much work in a past-time activity that is supposed to be my free time, away from work.

Exactly my point. I understand and appreciate the grind for soloable things, but things that rely on a group that can complete a Trial, Arena, or Group Dungeon... it should be 100% drop rate. Especially Trials and Arenas.

WuChiWuGen

I agree with the op

AlnilamE

I don't think there should be a 100% drop rate, but the rate should be higher if you are running the content at higher difficulty.

I'm not up to date on the new leads in trials/arenas, but when the system first came out, the lead for Craglorn trials dropped pretty frequently.

And for the leads for Mythics, you only ever need to get it once since they introduced the sticker book.

LadyLethalla

I have yet to obtain a few such mythic leads, the Mazzatun, DSA and the one from COH2 spring to mind - but there are more than just those. Granted, I don't run COH2 every time it comes up on the pledge roster, and I haven't done DSA or Mazza at all since moving to PC (never done either on vet, ever) but when you do complete more difficult things like that and fail to get the lead yet again... well I'm not inclined to run it over and over. As for the "get your guildies to help you!" response, I don't like to hassle people...

LyricsEcho

There should be a garunteed pull for leads after so many times or garuntee lead on hardmode. I found myself farming dsa normal 7 times for just one lead. Those minutes add up especially when it's hard to find a few other players to run the content.

El_Borracho

Really can not agree more with OP. I remember the frustration with the wolf mount lead and Darkshades. I get the devs want us to run content. But do I really have to run DS1 20+ times for a lead?

These aren't monster set motifs, they're leads for mythic items. They shouldn't be put behind an RNG wall in group content

Its_MySniff

I got the lead from Remains Silent and didn't realize until I finished that Item. The lead never popped on my screen. I potentially went for weeks to see that argonian and may have got it in days. Yep, I'm slow. But, I also got the Kilt on day two and never use it. I did the ebon wolf mount in a day or just over. That Gryphon feather though, blast it.

Chalinal

El_Borracho wrote: »

Really can not agree more with OP. I remember the frustration with the wolf mount lead and Darkshades. I get the devs want us to run content. But do I really have to run DS1 20+ times for a lead?

These aren't monster set motifs, they're leads for mythic items. They shouldn't be put behind an RNG wall in group content

Couldn't agree more!

Soulshine

Are you really expecting leads for a mythic items to just drop from the sky, when we can barely even get a stupid destro staff to drop after x number of runs in a base game dungeon?

I am just as annoyed by RNG as the next person here, so I do have some sympathy for how you feel.

That said, it is not particularly bad that they are putting mythic leads in group content areas imho. They are supposed to be top of the food chain items; why wouldn't they be hard to get?

Mind you, I never chase them myself since I my playstyle is always to do what I do, and if I get a drop great - if I don't? well... I don't worry. I have acquired a few mythics in this fashion, and confess I don't even use them. So my viewpoint may be skewed here, I realize.

But in general, I think it's actually a good thing that they have set them up this way. Otherwise, there would be little value in having everyone get them within a day or so... as is, that happens already for some that are rng lucky.

Rugby_hook

At the very least you should be able to give leads to people. Not everyone wants the lead and unlike anything else in dungeons it is the one thing that can't be traded. I would happily give up mythic items leads to group members if I already have that item because I can always reconstruct. It's frustrating not getting the lead and having people who don't need or want it get it.

BazOfWar

Antiquity leads should only drop from places where EVERY single player has the chance to obtain it. Putting them in trials and arenas is effectively putting up a wall.

Some players have disabilities that prevent them from entering those parts of the game, some players have limited times to play which prevents them from entering those parts of the game.

Overland, dungeons and WB's are ok because every player at least has a chance to get into those scenarios.

fizl101

Honestly, RNG is against me most of the time, but I think a 100% drop rate would just be boring. Yes I know that some people end up running many many times (I did for the wolf mount)but if its 100% drop rate they may as well just give you the lead

cyclonus11

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

When introduced antiquity leads were so easy to get that the gear and furnishings started to accumulate drastically. The rare stuff wasn’t actually rare.

30+ runs through Volenfell for the wolf mount seat isn't rare?

Chalinal

BazOfWar wrote: »

Antiquity leads should only drop from places where EVERY single player has the chance to obtain it. Putting them in trials and arenas is effectively putting up a wall.

Some players have disabilities that prevent them from entering those parts of the game, some players have limited times to play which prevents them from entering those parts of the game.

Overland, dungeons and WB's are ok because every player at least has a chance to get into those scenarios.

Another insightful perspective that I hadn't thought about!

moo_2021

El_Borracho wrote: »

Really can not agree more with OP. I remember the frustration with the wolf mount lead and Darkshades. I get the devs want us to run content. But do I really have to run DS1 20+ times for a lead?

These aren't monster set motifs, they're leads for mythic items. They shouldn't be put behind an RNG wall in group content

Also those required a lot of leads, not one. If a player doesn't want to spend time he's very unlikely to get all leads (not to mention scrying level 7). If he's already spending considerable time, why punish him by adding RNG?

I'd rather have 100 leads to gather than random chance like that. It's extremely frustrating after you did very difficult things you still don't get what you need.

El_Borracho

moo_2021 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Really can not agree more with OP. I remember the frustration with the wolf mount lead and Darkshades. I get the devs want us to run content. But do I really have to run DS1 20+ times for a lead?

These aren't monster set motifs, they're leads for mythic items. They shouldn't be put behind an RNG wall in group content

Also those required a lot of leads, not one. If a player doesn't want to spend time he's very unlikely to get all leads (not to mention scrying level 7). If he's already spending considerable time, why punish him by adding RNG?

I'd rather have 100 leads to gather than random chance like that. It's extremely frustrating after you did very difficult things you still don't get what you need.

Exactly. I could deal with the group delve monsters in Craglorn you had to kill, a nuisance, yes. I could deal with the pure RNG of killing adds in Eastmarch. But the RNG of running group content over and over again was tedious, especially since there were runs where nobody got the lead.

And yes, it bears mentioning that these are leads for multiple items that can be combined into a mythic piece. I don't care about the RNG for a furniture piece or motif. Even if they kept the RNG as is on normal, but guaranteed a drop of vet hard mode, I would be for that.

AlnilamE

BazOfWar wrote: »

Antiquity leads should only drop from places where EVERY single player has the chance to obtain it. Putting them in trials and arenas is effectively putting up a wall.

Some players have disabilities that prevent them from entering those parts of the game, some players have limited times to play which prevents them from entering those parts of the game.

Overland, dungeons and WB's are ok because every player at least has a chance to get into those scenarios.

Every player can join a normal dungeon or trial.

Chips_Ahoy

Chalinal wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Really can not agree more with OP.

Couldn't agree more!

why not? is there any rule in the forum that prohibits agreeing more?

50% chance would be great.

Waseem

keep it as it is
i dont want to finish the antiquity system in 2 hours

Enika

Leads drop in dungeons are really awful . Done 26th time Cradle of Shadows and 28th times Ruins of Mazzatun and still no leads . Just feeling that I really wasting my time

moo_2021

Waseem wrote: »

keep it as it is
i dont want to finish the antiquity system in 2 hours

They can increase the numbers of leads. Even 30 or 50 leads for a mystic item would be fine to me without RNG.

fall0athboy

EF321 wrote: »

As with everything, it's an RNG factor. Doing entire trial with randoms is an ok condition, problem is that it can drop on first try, or it can not drop after 20 tries.

There really should be some sort of pity timer, where you are guaranteed drop after x tries, but can still get on first if you are lucky.

I don't like this mentality that "It is MMO, therefore you must grind over and over. Because it's MMO". Yeah early MMOs used to be like that, because technology was limited. Nothing in term MMORPG suggest grinding is an obligatory element, it suggest that you should roleplay with lots of people.

RuneScape does this with their boss pet drops, where if you kill a boss X amount of times, the likelihood of getting the pet increases slightly. It keeps doing this after X more times, repeating until you get it.

fall0athboy

Enika wrote: »

Leads drop in dungeons are really awful . Done 26th time Cradle of Shadows and 28th times Ruins of Mazzatun and still no leads . Just feeling that I really wasting my time

I think it took me 30 times of Blackheart Haven and 20 or so for Direfrost Keep.

I think my HarvestMap has every single chest spawn for BH.

Chalinal

Enika wrote: »

Leads drop in dungeons are really awful . Done 26th time Cradle of Shadows and 28th times Ruins of Mazzatun and still no leads . Just feeling that I really wasting my time

Yup! You, I, and hundreds of others feel the same. Even others in this thread share their nightmarish numbers of attempts at Trial, Arena, and Group Dungeon leads. I hope others share their feelings/experiences on this issue so ZOS can take notice!

Chalinal

fall0athboy wrote: »

Enika wrote: »

Leads drop in dungeons are really awful . Done 26th time Cradle of Shadows and 28th times Ruins of Mazzatun and still no leads . Just feeling that I really wasting my time

I think it took me 30 times of Blackheart Haven and 20 or so for Direfrost Keep.

I think my HarvestMap has every single chest spawn for BH.

That's rough!