What do you want for PvP?

Alucardo

I figured it'd be nice to have a thread dedicated to suggestions and feedback for PvP. So go nuts and lay your ideas down here. Please keep the trash talk to a minimum - we're all here because we love pvp and want to see it succeed, so even if you don't like an idea at least be nice about it.

Okay, I'll start.

- Cyrodiil is boring. Ride to keep -> Capture keep and move on to the next. There needs to be some other variable there. Perhaps buff the resources to make them more important, so people are more likely to split the fighting between keeps and resources. For example, currently the mine provides more strength to walls and lumber to doors. I'm not sure what the current values are right now, but increasing them may make people want to attack/defend them more often before/during a siege. Quite often they will get ignored as to not alert the enemy you're sieging their walls, but if attacking the lumber makes the door significantly weaker, it'd probably be worth it. Perhaps let people upgrade the resources using AP, ie: you pay AP to the siege merchant, then 5 minutes later, as long as it's not under attack, boom, new level.
- For 2 minutes after leaving a keep you own, assuming you have at least the farm under your control to feed livestock, your mount gains increased speed to help you get around faster. This is obviously not applicable to outposts.

Cyrodiil isn't bad for the most part. I liked the change to towns by making them capturable, giving you strategic transportation to attack a keep if there's no forward camps down. But there still needs to be other variables when attacking/defending. Also, the lag is the biggest problem, so obviously that needs to be addressed ASAP.

Battlegrounds are actually okay for the most part. Another game mode I thought of was inspired by ICs death penalty. Each player holds essence, and when you're killed the attacker steals that essence. The team that holds the most essence at the end of the match wins. It's essentially Deathmatch with a bit of strategy, because obviously you want to attack the player holding the most essence. Once you have accumulated a significant amount, you will show up on the map and have an icon above your head. So watch your back.
It's evident people just like killing other people in BGs, so I figured having another deathmatch type gamemode would be appealing.

And now we get to my beloved Imperial City. Personally, I already love it. I just wish other people did too. But what can you actually give it to bring more players in there? Honestly, I have no clue other than more incentives. All that comes to mind is some actual useful tel var sets. Vicecannon is extremely niche, Galerion's is so weak nobody even talks about it, Reactive got hit with the nerf hammer into oblivion, Black Rose is ehhh. It got nerfed, then buffed again and people still don't use it. Powerful Assault is actually pretty good. Shield Breaker was hilarious back in the day, but nobody is going out of their way to obtain it now. Shields aren't annoying as they once were, so you're better off just stacking damage instead of relying on something like SB.
So I'd either revamp all the sets (Except PA, it's already nice) or add completely new ones. A nice mixture of sustain, defensive and offensive sets.

Most of all. Fix the lag in Cyrodiil, please. It's so bad.

Aektann

We need good performance and lag free battles in pvp. That's all

Alucardo

Aektann wrote: »

We need good performance and lag free battles in pvp. That's all

Yep. The other stuff would be a nice bonus, but honestly, just lag free pvp would be enough.

Elo106

They arent going to fix performance anytime soon, give us small scale pvp options.

Group vs Group duels - relatively easy to implement but it would enable us to host all sorts of events ranging from 2vs2 all the way to guild vs guild fights, 1vsX training etc.

Ranked Arenas & BGs - a lot more work but competitive small scale pvp would be something pvp streamers could do without complaining about lag all day, could draw in more players and would be something to work towards.

Alucardo

Elo106 wrote: »

They arent going to fix performance anytime soon, give us small scale pvp options.

Group vs Group duels - relatively easy to implement but it would enable us to host all sorts of events ranging from 2vs2 all the way to guild vs guild fights, 1vsX training etc.

Ranked Arenas & BGs - a lot more work but competitive small scale pvp would be something pvp streamers could do without complaining about lag all day, could draw in more players and would be something to work towards.

Nice suggestions. I was actually addicted to Dalaran Gaming's 5v5 WoW duels, so adding the ability to do this in ESO would be pretty hot. I can imagine player hosted competitions using arenas built in their houses or something. Sounds fun.

xDeusEJRx

For cyrodiil my main things I want are:
Hammer to be removed (for gods sake please remove the holy lag machine from the game). The most game crashes and faction stacking happens when this god forsaken thing is around (i know no proc cyrodiil is going to remove this but I honestly think it provides nothing to the game except the entire server pushing in 1 direction which creates mega lag)

Increase mount speed or something to make it so you don't spend half of your time just riding around on your mount(it's gotten better compared to what it used to, which is an improvement), I hate just riding around most of my time in cyrodiil, I'd like to be able to jump straight into a fight like you can in Imperial city(IC has the advantage of being a small condensed zone so fights are more centralized).

Incentives to engaging in fights. A lot of the time there will be literally 0 keeps flagged and no active fights on the map, besides small scale fights. I've sat around waiting for action and every faction will be pop locked but for some reason no one will push first? Maybe add some extra incentive for engaging in fights/pushing objectives. Maybe add passive AP for pushing an objective. So you get 3 ticks, defensive tick, capture tick, and a "pushing objective tick" so people don't just sit around. There was a time where my faction (AD) had emperor but everyone just wanted to sit around and wait for both factions to push them, even though they could've taken scrolls. I'd rather there be more reason for people to actually engage in pvp instead of waiting around for someone else to make the first move.

Alucardo

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Incentives to engaging in fights. A lot of the time there will be literally 0 keeps flagged and no active fights on the map, besides small scale fights. I've sat around waiting for action and every faction will be pop locked but for some reason no one will push first? Maybe add some extra incentive for engaging in fights/pushing objectives. Maybe add passive AP for pushing an objective. So you get 3 ticks, defensive tick, capture tick, and a "pushing objective tick" so people don't just sit around. There was a time where my faction (AD) had emperor but everyone just wanted to sit around and wait for both factions to push them, even though they could've taken scrolls. I'd rather there be more reason for people to actually engage in pvp instead of waiting around for someone else to make the first move.

Yeah that's a fair call. Since MYM is over I noticed not much is happening. You'll see a couple of resources flip to provoke a fight, but that's generally about it.

Magio_

Deathmatch queue back in Battlegrounds.

Sanctum74

As much as I’d love to see proc sets removed, classes balanced better, and not these crazy swings of buffs and nerfs between patches, I’d just be happy if I pressed a button and something happens or I could break free the first time.

Gilvoth

1) i want jumping during combat removed
2) i want faster sneak speeds for us nightblades

WaywardArgonian

I'd like for ZOS to take it easy on taking PVP in a completely different direction every 3 months. I also had this issue when I was still playing a lot of PVE. At times it was difficult to commit to a certain class/playstyle because you knew they'd completely change the game at a core level with the next update. In itself, this wouldn't be bad if one could discern a coherent vision in their changes, but from my perspective it's closer to absolute chaos. Just formulate a clear vision and calmly work towards that with incremental updates.

Hämähäkki

I would like to see some Guild vs Guild PvP. Like Guild 1 is building up a Keep or town and has to defend it against other guilds. Something like that.
This would create a more powerful bond between the guild members and would give the guild thing finally a better meaning.
🙂

hands0medevil

[snip]

1. Claiming a keep by a guild should be more meaningful - for example some ability to customize keep, upgrade and adjust defense and NPCs would be nice.
2. More individual rewards and achievements for player's actions in cyro
3. More stats and better summary of cyro campaigns - for example who initiated most of the sieges, total keep claims by guilds, total kills and sieges destroyed etc etc. Some stats reflecting group and individual effort would be nice
4. seasons in cyro with some extra rewards and new stuff (for example new daedric weapon), campaigns from one MYM to next MYM event would be a one season.
5. siege weapons stacking in the inventory, skins for sieges

But a this point any sign of devs interest would be nice. I'm also afraid with the current state of the pvp performance we can't count on anything new, because it would only make it worse. I don't even mention class, sets, weapons balance...

Cyro is one of the most interesting ideas of pvp in MMOs but it requires constant development and any kind of devs attention. It could even work as a separate game. It's truly unpolished gem with great potential - monetization, twitch streams etc. With nicely working cyro and BGs ESO would be a amazing and competetive online game with more streamers and more viewers than it currently has. [snip]

[Edit for Bashing.]

Deep_01

Performance improvements during prime time.

An ultimate (maybe in undaunted skill line?) that acts like proximity detonation (x damage and y% damage increase for every player nearby) but it kills you in the process too (to prevent pve abuse). However, it provides much better range and damage scaling.

Few more different currencies and items to purchase.

More resources like structures (for small scale players) to fight over and farm AP ^^" ! (not a good idea)

Make doors stronger/reinforced than walls. Provide defensive structures (that face the wall) that do moderate damage against large groups but avoidable by scattered players.

Make NPCs on wall cast ground AoE reduce resistances on players? Make home keeps more defensive? Make a more intercrossed transitus shrine?

Make it so that you can only port to resources like structure and not to keeps, while adding more keep like structures?

Alucardo

Deep_01 wrote: »

An ultimate (maybe in undaunted skill line?) that acts like proximity detonation (x damage and y% damage increase for every player nearby) but it kills you in the process too (to prevent pve abuse). However, it provides much better range and damage scaling.

Lol this could be fun. Definitely an easier and more dramatic option to respawn whenever I get stuck inside a wall.

amir412

Cyrodiil -> It's dead, even on primetime there are not enough players. You can check EU Grayhost in Friday nights, it's not even pop locked in prime time. 60 is the max pop I believe per faction, can you imagine how bad the game needs to function for it to happen?
No one wants to play a laggy & dead game, and I think the community starting to realise that (took us few years).

Same names everyday, same lag, same horse simulator for 20 minutes just to get zerged hence repeat.

PVP community is already small in this game and it is WAY WAY too divided, CP - NO CP - BGs - IC etc..
It was doomed to fail from the beginning. Cyro is a just a shell of it's former self basically, and you will see the same thing will happen to NO-CP campaigns.

Now new and decent games are coming out, I genuinely believe its too late to fix ESO and draw players back to Cyro or PVP in general. How fixing the lag can help an empty map on primetime? really sad.

Wise_Will

For its removal

Alucardo

Joy_Division wrote: »

[snip]

Certainly can't argue with that

[edited to remove quote]

lexicondevil99

There is no point tying to deal with anything else until the lag and performance issues are fixed at least to a point where Cyro is playable during prime time. I know this is said a lot, but that is because it is THE MOST important fix that can be done, and ZOS should never lose sight of this. It should be repeated every day, over and over.

Kamchuk

I agree with most of the above. Performance needs to be improved. I personally would gladly pay a subscription charge for PVP if the revenue was used to increase the number of server farms, geographically dispersed to different regions, to help decrease the latency. (I’m in Virginia and I have 10 hops to get to the NA server in Texas). ZOS could rent the servers using the revenues from the extra subscriptions’ charges and put data centers closer to where clients are located.
This is truly an amazing game. I have not seen its comparison. It lacks participants because of the performance of the game. In my opinion it is still savable. Aside from the technical issues though, I would like to see:

• Get rid of that ridiculous hammer. It serves NO function other than produce enormous lag.
• Increase population caps back to the original game in 2014. I started PVP in late 2014 and the caps were about 600 per faction. With that population back to the original design, you need never worry about ball groups again. A ball group shows up at a keep and 200 arrive to kill them in less than 2.7 seconds. You also have ENORMOUS fights. Compensate for the resulting lag by reducing stuff like Proc sets, etc… (You fill in the blanks here.)
• Make taking a keep REALLY worth something other than a few additional points per tick. Put Treasure chests in the keeps with really elaborate and elite gear, transmutation stones, tri-pots, etc. The longer a keep is held, the more treasure chest and higher quality of gear is there for the taking. The treasure chests would be randomly located inside the keep so that you have to find them.
• Allow combat and skills firing from horseback (or whatever mount you have). In other words, a Calvary. And if you ride OVER an enemy while on horseback it counts as a Heavy Attack. (Another counter to ball groups). If a ball groups shows up, simply mount-up, and ride over them a couple of times while firing all your skills. They should be wiped in 3.35 seconds.
• Make the Emperor, after taking all 6 circle keeps, be the person with the most Kills. That is the person that should be recognized as the leader, not someone that plays 24x7. Reward the person that has the skill and tenacity to go out and TAKE the crown.
• Get rid of the low pop bonus.

I’m kidding when I mention how long it should take to eliminate ball groups above, but you get the general idea. This is wargamming at its finest. It has SO MUCH potential. I would gladly pay extra each month to see it reach its potential. I think from all the threads complaining about PVP, you would too. There is nothing like this game.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Close up Cyro or fix it...two choices.
There's no in between.

Minyassa

Actual in-game DMs that can see how players treat each other and boot the ones being abusive to other people.

Jackey

Cyrodiil
The lag have to be fixed first. No other adjustments, fixes or systems will matter if Cyrodiil continues to lag.

Scoring in the campaign favours the faction that is able to cap the map during off-peak hours and right before maintenance. This usually means that the top faction will start with every keep, scroll and Emperor when everyone else log on to play.
The way scoring works needs to be looked at.

The faction with Emperor should not be able to pick up Volendrung.


Battlegrounds
Bgs is in need of something to bring in more players to it. The issues I have with it is because of a lack of players. Long queue times and bad matchmaking.
I'm not sure what that could be though.


Imperial City
This place is empty for two reasons the way I see it.

1. No incentive to play. No objectives, no long term rewards worth grinding for and no leaderboards.

2. Players hate to get ganked and lose half their telvar.

Maybe more players would play in there if those two issues would be looked into.

Alucardo

Jackey wrote: »

Cyrodiil
2. Players hate to get ganked and lose half their telvar.

Maybe more players would play in there if those two issues would be looked into.

You know, I used to be against nerfing the tel var penalty, but if it means getting more players into IC I'm willing to somehow lower the penalty.
Perhaps you get a number based on how many tel var you currently have on your person and how many they have. A person with no tel var on them shouldn't be able to kill a farmer with 20k and take half their earnings. That's not risk vs reward at all, which is what the system is supposed to be.
Instead of a straight 50% it should be tallied up based on the number of tel var you and the defeated have.

Urzigurumash

Coldfire Oils

Chrlynsch

Make hots not stack in pvp.

Adernath

For me it is not even the lag in regards of priority which should be adressed, but the grossly imbalance towards meele in heavy armor which needs to be fixed to make PvP somehow enjoyable. Here my suggestion is to add generic run-speed debuff when using pieces of medium or heavy armor up to maybe 12% if in full heavy armor, as well as a cost-rank up for using critical rush within a short amount of time. Also the self-healing and cleansing of certain classes need to be adjusted slightly. Here one should not over-nerf, but carefully adjust these numbers so that there will be a good balance once again. Heck, even bunny hopping could be removed by introducing a small stamina cost for jumping. It wouldn't hurt anyone.

The current imbalance is also the main reason I seldomly do any battlegrounds, on top of the fact that most of the map layouts already are in favour of meele encounters anyways.

IC is just a gankfest and therefore again favours either NB gankers or tank builds who can survive burst damage without much of a sweat. The Tel Var gain and loss need a big overwork here, because losing half the amount for a kill is just too much for many more squishy builds and hardly any risk for a ganker. If you run a cloth build for example, it is just too risky witout a zerg because sometimes it is not possible to survive a NB burst, in particular if you fight other mobs at the same time. My proposal would be to reduce TV loss overall and only in significant amount if you get killed by someone carrying enough TV by himself and having a similar PvP rank than you etc.

Cyro also could need additional changes, as already mentioned above. Maybe some caravans to be protected or raided which go between keeps and outposts etc. Also make milegates and bridges not so easily repairable. Furthermore we need some more effective way vs. ball groups, like a better working negate which functions like an area-debuff instead.

There are many easy to implement solutions which can be tested, but only those devs who really play PvP -- and this with *all* classes --- will find a good balance so that players can return.

Fawn4287

Concern 1-100.Performance
Nerf large groups, large group play and large group builds and large group play.

These are the two issues absolutely killing cyrodil numbers, lag goes without saying and theres no body who’s entered a lively campaign anywhere near peak time and hasn’t experienced game breaking, crippling lag. Large groups, especially ball groups are the next biggest issue. Who is going to get on with their friends who casually play after doing something like a dungeon to get rolled by emperor groups and zerglings following? Its not like theres even any counters to it, they cause lag spikes with their AOE spam, they roll with enough health to be burst proof by even the most well specced bomber, they roll with enough off healing and cleanses to be basically immune to siege and with a dozen shared group buffing sets and skills, combined with the lack of a need for real regen and self healing can stack far more damage than any normal player can.

Massively nerf healing to others
Nerf warden and necro
Buff crit resist

Every patch of laggy, badly balanced, boring, mindless large group tank vs tank gameplay is more players lost to games like BDO and New World, when even late game content creators who’ve built their entire channel on a game start to leave it, the sinking ship looks like its past recovery at this point.

Jameson18

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Make hots not stack in pvp.

1000000000% this.

Jameson18

HoT's should not be stackable.

People should only receive 1 instance of things like radiating regen and extended ritual (default to the best/highest applied). (Edit: Per skill. I don't mean just one or the other HoT. 1 radiating regen, 1 extended ritual. People would still have 2 HoTs. Just not 6.)

Purge should be a mirror of how ritual works. Cleanse the caster. Groupmates or Allies within X range should have to use the synergy. - Can then also reduce the cost some and it gives other classes better access to the utility item.

This gets done? Most the frustration and forum posts asking for nerfs on things will all but cease.


Honestly, they could say then that DoTs or ground effects are also not stackable in effect and I would be fine with that trade off.

Organized groups can coordinate who's doing/casting what. That's the typical response right? "A good organized group should..." etc.

Stridig

Fix lag
Turn collision on
Cool down timer for AP on enemies killed and figure out how to do the same for random outposts. So tired of people killing friends to get on the leaderboard