Magwarden is in such a sad state.

frattastic

I understand that everyone thinks their own character is the worst, and I hope this doesn't read like that. Technically I main a stamwarden, but I digress...Magwarden seems to be the least played, most forgotten class in the game now, and for good reason.

PvE: before anyone gets mad, yes, I know its *possible* to pull huge numbers with magwarden. In general, however, Magwarden is not pulling top tier dps. Despite access to a great mag regen ability, magwardens have tough sustain problems. shalks, wardens #2 damage ability, provides major breach, something your tank will already be giving. Thus, casting this high-cost ability on repeat really gives no added benefits. Wardens are given a nice 3% boost to ice damage, yet ice damage and its corresponding sets are awful damage wise. Its still not possible to pull great dps as an ice main, forcing many players to play as a fire based character which, on top of being extremely aesthetically displeasing for a forest/ice character, offers no benefits like playing a sorcerer or mag dk does instead. In short, relying on fire staves/zaan for a nature/ice character only to fall short of sorcs/dk's/templars doing the same thing makes magwarden pretty useless. Also, and infuriatingly, the spirit bear ulti gets killed all the time in solo arenas. While I understand that familiars can and should be killed, this puts the class at a massive disadvantage when you suddenly have no ulti ability and summoning it back would get you killed.

PvP: Wardens have literally zero class stuns, immobilizes, or knock downs (bear ulti doesnt count for obvious reasons). As the only class with this problem, it really hinders wardens playstyle. Yes, I know wardens, can be strong in pvp, but those are typically stamwardens who have access 2h off balance/knockdowns or spinny executes and shalks that burst twice instead of once. magwardens have no execute, no stun or immobil, no streak or invis, or any way to escape unfavorable matchups. Most players offset this with the master's flame destro staff, which presents the same problems as listed above. Wardens also dont have a great spammable. cliff racer is easily dodged and force pulse is meh at best. very disappointing compared to swallow soul or healing jabs. Needing to line up one lucky burst (shalks + proc set + a crappy spammable) puts wardens, again, at a severe disadvantage compared to classes that can do consistent DOT and heal themselves.

I dont hate magwarden and this isnt a "ZOS WHY YOU SO BAD FIX THE GAME" style rant. There are other issues with magwarden that I didnt list here, but these are the most glaring problems in my opinion. Just needed to put it out in the open.

Fennwitty

They're buffing ice a bit on the PTS server.

fred4

Hmm. Magdens do have a stun. It's called Arctic Blast. You might not like the skill, but you can't say they don't have a stun. I dusted mine off for PvP this week. I wanted to try Death Dealer's Fete and was surprised how viable mag-stacking is again, although IMO you do want to sacrifice everything and get to the 55K magicka mark without Northern Storm. At that point the shield (Dampen) holds up well enough and your pressure in duels is pretty high. Cliff Racer sits at around an 11K tooltip, Deep Fissure at 16K+. That said the class still has all the old problems. The shield is even more brittle than in years past. Two decent opponents and you're basically done for immediately. No escape mechanic. No speed. Don't get me started on Bird of Prey. I had to switch to RAT at least. No execute. People recover from execute range 9 times out of 10. No reliable / comboable stun. It holds up in a duel against a sorc (defensively at least), because the healing is pretty good and Living Trellis is cheap. That's about it. In open world PvP sorc holds all the aces. There is no reason to play a magden over a sorc. I suppose these are the complaints of a solo player. In group play magden arguably has AOE utility that sorc lacks. I will say that Northern Storm plus whatever other damage you're putting out is pretty good at wiping out nightblades.

The main issue I have with magden is that the above makes for a boring class to play. This class is famous for it's buff coverage, but buffing up is not engaging gameplay. The class lacks situational skills. I know not everyone can be a magplar or a nightblade, but gap closers and executes - also Streak - those are situational skills that make a character engaging to play, at least for me. Those are skills that are not part of some predetermined rotation. Magden is the class that mindlessly fires a broadside (Shalks) every 3 seconds and hopes they kill someone. If that doesn't work they surround themselves with some additional AOE. I always found it boring to play, but maybe that's intentional. It arguably makes for beginner-friendly builds and perhaps ones that work in Cyro lag. I wouldn't know. I hardly play there when Cyro is busy.

fred4

In case ZOS is reading, let me clarify what I mean by "lack of situational skills". The class arguably has some of those on paper. The teleportation rune and Swing to Ally come to mind. The problem with those skills is that they are niche and gimmicky. Streak, Fossilize, Cloak, Shadow Image, those are class-defining PvP skills that you find bar space for. Make a skill that has too limited scope, that is extremely situational as it were, and there's just no bar space for it. For me prsonally this goes so far as I wouldn't even slot Shimmering Shield, because it only protects against one type of damage (ranged). I used to love DK wings back in the day, when they reflected damage. That skill made attackers back off, because they knew they might hit themselves with their hardest hitting skills. That was cool af. It was also extremely satisfying in PvE, e.g. against "taking aim" archers in vMA and against the Daedroth boss in the IC arena district. There were balancing issues with it, but at least the skill was in the ballpark of being worth slotting. I suppose Shimmering Shield is too, but for me personally: Meh. The watered-down versions of these skills that remain in the game aren't doing it for me. There was arguably far less wrong with the old wings than people said, given that it only reflected x number of attacks and could be made unsustainable by peppering it with ranged attacks. Arguably Force Pulse passing through it, rather than using up 3 stacks of wings, was exactly the opposite of what was needed.

But, hey, I don't remember all the arguments that were had at the time. I could be wrong on wings. All I'm saying is that warden lacks a single class-defining PvP skill that would make you prefer the class over others. No, Shalks ain't it. Power of the Light and Haunting Curse, delayed burst skills, those are not class defining skills. It's Streak, Cloak, Shadow Image, Leap, DK wings of old, maybe Fossilize. For templar it's arguably Extended Ritual, although I think it's more the completeness of their toolkit that does it for me. There is more, I suppose. Sorcs shield stacking. Templar's jabs. The toolkit of the 4 original classes results in distinct playstyles. Magden feels generic by comparison.

BloodyStigmata

I wish they'd let us go all in on the frost dps and have other ways to buff it substantially.

I really like that set they gave cryomancers in the Blackwood update. Things like that are nice, but it doesn't feel like its enough.

ESO_Nightingale

Magden, in pvp suffers from the success that stamden has. It has all of the same problems as stamden, except that stamden is able to use far better weapon skills which cover it's weaknesses. In pve it's good right now because it was given a bunch of raw damage boosts as bandaids. But we can't forget how bad it really was for all of those years. It's problems still unfortunately remain, having the smallest amount of skill options, and a general lack of self synergy between those skills.

ESO_Nightingale

fred4 wrote: »

Hmm. Magdens do have a stun. It's called Arctic Blast. You might not like the skill, but you can't say they don't have a stun. I dusted mine off for PvP this week. I wanted to try Death Dealer's Fete and was surprised how viable mag-stacking is again, although IMO you do want to sacrifice everything and get to the 55K magicka mark without Northern Storm. At that point the shield (Dampen) holds up well enough and your pressure in duels is pretty high. Cliff Racer sits at around an 11K tooltip, Deep Fissure at 16K+. That said the class still has all the old problems. The shield is even more brittle than in years past. Two decent opponents and you're basically done for immediately. No escape mechanic. No speed. Don't get me started on Bird of Prey. I had to switch to RAT at least. No execute. People recover from execute range 9 times out of 10. No reliable / comboable stun. It holds up in a duel against a sorc (defensively at least), because the healing is pretty good and Living Trellis is cheap. That's about it. In open world PvP sorc holds all the aces. There is no reason to play a magden over a sorc. I suppose these are the complaints of a solo player. In group play magden arguably has AOE utility that sorc lacks. I will say that Northern Storm plus whatever other damage you're putting out is pretty good at wiping out nightblades.

The main issue I have with magden is that the above makes for a boring class to play. This class is famous for it's buff coverage, but buffing up is not engaging gameplay. The class lacks situational skills. I know not everyone can be a magplar or a nightblade, but gap closers and executes - also Streak - those are situational skills that make a character engaging to play, at least for me. Those are skills that are not part of some predetermined rotation. Magden is the class that mindlessly fires a broadside (Shalks) every 3 seconds and hopes they kill someone. If that doesn't work they surround themselves with some additional AOE. I always found it boring to play, but maybe that's intentional. It arguably makes for beginner-friendly builds and perhaps ones that work in Cyro lag. I wouldn't know. I hardly play there when Cyro is busy.

It's self healing isn't even good. It was designed that way. Arctic Blast's 25% HP heal went against that rule which is why it was so annoying to fight against. They nerfed healing, major mending and nature's embrace by a huge portion as well. Magden's green balance skills are either less powerful or more situational than other class's skills. But there's been no compensation to help our healing after blast's huge nerf. Blast by itself was too much. But now that blessing of restoration is our best spammable heal. It's really bad. Trellis easily needs to have a burst heal buff of 55%-65% to put it on par with the alright burst heal on trees.

xHotguy6pack

Mag Warden still better than mag dk.

ESO_Nightingale

xHotguy6pack wrote: »

Mag Warden still better than mag dk.

Pve? Yes. Pvp? No.

UntilValhalla13

Magden is low-key one of the top mag dps classes in PvE at the moment... They hit like a truck. They're also fun to play because, they're like necros, except warden skills actually work.

zvavi

Let's address the PvE points you brought up:
1. Sustain, this one is mute in trial environment.
2. Saying deep fissure is a high cost ability, when in fact it costs less than a spammable.
3. Bear dies in arenas. While it is a bit annoying having a semi aoe spammable does wonders in cleaning things before bear dies, not only that the mag morph brings him right back anyway. If it is dying a lot, that's a you problem. Not a bear problem.
4. Playing iceden bringing no group benefits - this point is straight up false. Brittle is a thing.
5. Magdens not pulling huge numbers - they are not top dogs in dps, sure, but there are always only 1 or 2 classes that are anyway, and magdens have their aoe damage without sacrificing anything, which is highest of all 6 classes.

All in all your PvE assessment of magden felt... Just not true.

WrathOfInnos

zvavi wrote: »

Let's address the PvE points you brought up:
1. Sustain, this one is mute in trial environment.
2. Saying deep fissure is a high cost ability, when in fact it costs less than a spammable.
3. Bear dies in arenas. While it is a bit annoying having a semi aoe spammable does wonders in cleaning things before bear dies, not only that the mag morph brings him right back anyway. If it is dying a lot, that's a you problem. Not a bear problem.
4. Playing iceden bringing no group benefits - this point is straight up false. Brittle is a thing.
5. Magdens not pulling huge numbers - they are not top dogs in dps, sure, but there are always only 1 or 2 classes that are anyway, and magdens have their aoe damage without sacrificing anything, which is highest of all 6 classes.

All in all your PvE assessment of magden felt... Just not true.

Magden sustain is pretty terrible, even in optimized trial groups with multiple sustain sets. And if you add more group sustain support than every other class starts oversustaining with Bahsei. Relative to the other classes, magden sustain is a problem (probably also a problem for DK if they weren’t getting 129 Magicka Recovery from Z’en’s).

They’re #3 for single target DPS (after Nightblade and pet Sorc), and about the same ranking in AoE (after Necro, and maybe Templar?). I’m not complaining about this, seems pretty balanced IMO.

zvavi

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Let's address the PvE points you brought up:
1. Sustain, this one is mute in trial environment.
2. Saying deep fissure is a high cost ability, when in fact it costs less than a spammable.
3. Bear dies in arenas. While it is a bit annoying having a semi aoe spammable does wonders in cleaning things before bear dies, not only that the mag morph brings him right back anyway. If it is dying a lot, that's a you problem. Not a bear problem.
4. Playing iceden bringing no group benefits - this point is straight up false. Brittle is a thing.
5. Magdens not pulling huge numbers - they are not top dogs in dps, sure, but there are always only 1 or 2 classes that are anyway, and magdens have their aoe damage without sacrificing anything, which is highest of all 6 classes.

All in all your PvE assessment of magden felt... Just not true.

Magden sustain is pretty terrible, even in optimized trial groups with multiple sustain sets. And if you add more group sustain support than every other class starts oversustaining with Bahsei. Relative to the other classes, magden sustain is a problem (probably also a problem for DK if they weren’t getting 129 Magicka Recovery from Z’en’s).

They’re #3 for single target DPS (after Nightblade and pet Sorc), and about the same ranking in AoE (after Necro, and maybe Templar?). I’m not complaining about this, seems pretty balanced IMO.

Maybe the sustain point is fine, but I can't slide the necros having more aoe damage, ye sure necros have around 55% dmg aoe from st vs the magden 45%, but 25% of it (BB+arcanist) is so narrow that it won't cleave as many targets. Then again maybe I am used to dungeons where it is impossible to stack all trash properly.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

Magden is low-key one of the top mag dps classes in PvE at the moment... They hit like a truck. They're also fun to play because, they're like necros, except warden skills actually work.

Bingo, the rotation is basically the same, but the skills actually fire. LOL

Their PVE DPS is top notch. Perhaps not the easiest class to play, but they are very strong right now. I will stay out of the PVP convo for the most part. I will say that I have met some Magdens that can duel their faces off.

WrathOfInnos

zvavi wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Let's address the PvE points you brought up:
1. Sustain, this one is mute in trial environment.
2. Saying deep fissure is a high cost ability, when in fact it costs less than a spammable.
3. Bear dies in arenas. While it is a bit annoying having a semi aoe spammable does wonders in cleaning things before bear dies, not only that the mag morph brings him right back anyway. If it is dying a lot, that's a you problem. Not a bear problem.
4. Playing iceden bringing no group benefits - this point is straight up false. Brittle is a thing.
5. Magdens not pulling huge numbers - they are not top dogs in dps, sure, but there are always only 1 or 2 classes that are anyway, and magdens have their aoe damage without sacrificing anything, which is highest of all 6 classes.

All in all your PvE assessment of magden felt... Just not true.

Magden sustain is pretty terrible, even in optimized trial groups with multiple sustain sets. And if you add more group sustain support than every other class starts oversustaining with Bahsei. Relative to the other classes, magden sustain is a problem (probably also a problem for DK if they weren’t getting 129 Magicka Recovery from Z’en’s).

They’re #3 for single target DPS (after Nightblade and pet Sorc), and about the same ranking in AoE (after Necro, and maybe Templar?). I’m not complaining about this, seems pretty balanced IMO.

Maybe the sustain point is fine, but I can't slide the necros having more aoe damage, ye sure necros have around 55% dmg aoe from st vs the magden 45%, but 25% of it (BB+arcanist) is so narrow that it won't cleave as many targets. Then again maybe I am used to dungeons where it is impossible to stack all trash properly.

@zvavi Yeah, stacks definitely play a part. I’m talking mainly trials, I don’t typically log or analyze dungeons. I should also be more clear what I mean by AoE. Necro has better sustained cleave damage during boss fights with adds, such as Xalvakka. Warden can do more damage when bursting trash packs, in part because Winter’s Revenge is instantly good, while Boneyard and Siphon require corpses to reach full potential, several seconds into the fight.

There’s also the difference in ultimates, Warden often uses Fiery Rage in trash, while most Necros are on Colossus duty. That being said, if a group has enough Necros for one to use Fiery Rage, it is very strong due to their 15% increase to DoTs and ability to quickly build ultimate with Necrotic Potency. This is inverted during boss fights, with the Bear doing no AoE damage, but Colossus is decent, which is important for things like Nahviintaas’ adds.

nightstrike

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

in part because Winter’s Revenge is instantly good

Ground target abilities are inherently difficult to use, especially in a tough fight where you need it the most.

LeHarrt91

As a MagDen main. I disagree with you in regards to PvE, Yes you need to use Inferno staves but so do all classes. Frost staff is getting a nice spammable which will help if playing double Frost which Warden gets a 10% boost too. MagDen with Double Inferno or Dual Wield is capable of 100k+ DPS on the trial dummy, which is more than required. In regards to Shalk, its AoE Breach, this helps with add pulls etc and is really useful, Tanks can only puncture one add at a time.

In PvP I would agree that MagDen could use a good single target stun (not a knock back), change Arctic Blast morph to not be a Health scaling skill, so that StamDen do not use it.
But also MagDen excels in group play in PvP, buffing and Supporting allies while being able to DPS.

WrathOfInnos

I’ll add that Screaming Cliff Racer is a very weak skill. It is essentially Elemental Weapon without Spell Orb or status effects, Force Pulse without splash damage, or Swallow Soul without the HoT. To do good damage on Magden, step one is to forget SCR exists and go with a full DoT rotation. Since Exploiter CP was removed, Off-Balance is largely a meaningless debuff in PVE, and easily applied by a Wall of Storms if needed. The “up to 15% increase” from range is rarely usable in PVE, and even at max range it cannot compete with other spammables.

Ricochet Skull is a great example of what a class spammable should do. It’s Fire Damage for an increase of 15% damage with Encratis and Engulfing. It deals bonus damage every 3rd cast, and has a unique bounce mechanic that is helpful for cleaving adds.

I’m sure SCR will see even less use when Frost Reach goes live. It is without doubt the worst spammable in the game, and I’m eagerly awaiting the replacement.

LeHarrt91

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I’ll add that Screaming Cliff Racer is a very weak skill. It is essentially Elemental Weapon without Spell Orb or status effects, Force Pulse without splash damage, or Swallow Soul without the HoT. To do good damage on Magden, step one is to forget SCR exists and go with a full DoT rotation. Since Exploiter CP was removed, Off-Balance is largely a meaningless debuff in PVE, and easily applied by a Wall of Storms if needed. The “up to 15% increase” from range is rarely usable in PVE, and even at max range it cannot compete with other spammables.

Ricochet Skull is a great example of what a class spammable should do. It’s Fire Damage for an increase of 15% damage with Encratis and Engulfing. It deals bonus damage every 3rd cast, and has a unique bounce mechanic that is helpful for cleaving adds.

I’m sure SCR will see even less use when Frost Reach goes live. It is without doubt the worst spammable in the game, and I’m eagerly awaiting the replacement.

Agree, although it heals and grants 2% damage done while slotted, its a lackluster spammable.

ESO_Nightingale

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I’ll add that Screaming Cliff Racer is a very weak skill. It is essentially Elemental Weapon without Spell Orb or status effects, Force Pulse without splash damage, or Swallow Soul without the HoT. To do good damage on Magden, step one is to forget SCR exists and go with a full DoT rotation. Since Exploiter CP was removed, Off-Balance is largely a meaningless debuff in PVE, and easily applied by a Wall of Storms if needed. The “up to 15% increase” from range is rarely usable in PVE, and even at max range it cannot compete with other spammables.

Ricochet Skull is a great example of what a class spammable should do. It’s Fire Damage for an increase of 15% damage with Encratis and Engulfing. It deals bonus damage every 3rd cast, and has a unique bounce mechanic that is helpful for cleaving adds.

I’m sure SCR will see even less use when Frost Reach goes live. It is without doubt the worst spammable in the game, and I’m eagerly awaiting the replacement.

Agree, although it heals and grants 2% damage done while slotted, its a lackluster spammable.

It's got a minimum travel time of like 1s even in melee range and it's effects try to punish you for being in melee range. once upon a time before summerset it was used in a combo but that was 4 years ago. Truely one of the worst spammables since then.

ESO_Nightingale

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

As a MagDen main. I disagree with you in regards to PvE, Yes you need to use Inferno staves but so do all classes. Frost staff is getting a nice spammable which will help if playing double Frost which Warden gets a 10% boost too. MagDen with Double Inferno or Dual Wield is capable of 100k+ DPS on the trial dummy, which is more than required. In regards to Shalk, its AoE Breach, this helps with add pulls etc and is really useful, Tanks can only puncture one add at a time.

In PvP I would agree that MagDen could use a good single target stun (not a knock back), change Arctic Blast morph to not be a Health scaling skill, so that StamDen do not use it.
But also MagDen excels in group play in PvP, buffing and Supporting allies while being able to DPS.

Blast doesn't need to have a mag scaling heal, since green balance is where the dps should be getting heals from. That morph should just have healing dropped entirely so it can focus on damage dealing and being an offensive stun. Polar Wind staying as is is fine.

Syrpynt

Oh, ok--you're talking about Magden DD's. My Iceden tank has my most favorite build of all time and is my best tank without a sword&shield even! Has the best damage out of all the tanks I've made in 5.5 years and the sustain is superb. lol

I can also swap his gear and without respec--does decent damage. I play controller, I don't have a set rotation, and I can't consistently animation cancel. Probably 28k dps. Idk man.

LeHarrt91

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

As a MagDen main. I disagree with you in regards to PvE, Yes you need to use Inferno staves but so do all classes. Frost staff is getting a nice spammable which will help if playing double Frost which Warden gets a 10% boost too. MagDen with Double Inferno or Dual Wield is capable of 100k+ DPS on the trial dummy, which is more than required. In regards to Shalk, its AoE Breach, this helps with add pulls etc and is really useful, Tanks can only puncture one add at a time.

In PvP I would agree that MagDen could use a good single target stun (not a knock back), change Arctic Blast morph to not be a Health scaling skill, so that StamDen do not use it.
But also MagDen excels in group play in PvP, buffing and Supporting allies while being able to DPS.

Blast doesn't need to have a mag scaling heal, since green balance is where the dps should be getting heals from. That morph should just have healing dropped entirely so it can focus on damage dealing and being an offensive stun. Polar Wind staying as is is fine.

I didnt say that this morph should be a magicka scaling heal skill, just that it shouldn't be health scaling.

ESO_Nightingale

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

As a MagDen main. I disagree with you in regards to PvE, Yes you need to use Inferno staves but so do all classes. Frost staff is getting a nice spammable which will help if playing double Frost which Warden gets a 10% boost too. MagDen with Double Inferno or Dual Wield is capable of 100k+ DPS on the trial dummy, which is more than required. In regards to Shalk, its AoE Breach, this helps with add pulls etc and is really useful, Tanks can only puncture one add at a time.

In PvP I would agree that MagDen could use a good single target stun (not a knock back), change Arctic Blast morph to not be a Health scaling skill, so that StamDen do not use it.
But also MagDen excels in group play in PvP, buffing and Supporting allies while being able to DPS.

Blast doesn't need to have a mag scaling heal, since green balance is where the dps should be getting heals from. That morph should just have healing dropped entirely so it can focus on damage dealing and being an offensive stun. Polar Wind staying as is is fine.

I didnt say that this morph should be a magicka scaling heal skill, just that it shouldn't be health scaling.

you left it relatively open so i thought you just meant it should be for magicka scaling.

Stx

I'm not sure why people think magden is bad. They do great dps and in pvp they can hold their own just fine especially if you play dual wield vamp

ESO_Nightingale

Stx wrote: »

I'm not sure why people think magden is bad. They do great dps and in pvp they can hold their own just fine especially if you play dual wield vamp

because in pvp it's self healing is plain bad, just because it has major mending doesn't mean it's actually good at healing itself, it's healing skills have lower tool tips than any other class, or they're situationally effective, it's the only class where it's better at healing groups than itself. it's damage is mediocre and it's sustain isn't good, it's stun options are all bad. it's good at group support and that's about it, if you want to play something something similar play stamden or magcro. both are much better. in pve they're fine except for frostden which still needs help.

nightstrike

Stx wrote: »

I'm not sure why people think magden is bad. They do great dps and in pvp they can hold their own just fine especially if you play dual wield vamp

I do about 9k dps.... maybe it's just a hard build to play, and I don't know how to do it effectively.

I fire shalks like a storm trooper, I use a lightning staff because people move around too fast, and I mainly spam crushing shock, not force pulse, so that I get the ranged interrupt. It's easy to wave light attacks in with that skill, so I mostly just hit '2' and left click.

I try to keep blue Betty and ice fortress up all the time, but invariably, they run out at the worst possible time, and bar swapping to reactivate them is slow.

"Ultimately", my bear fights better than I do.

Stx

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I'm not sure why people think magden is bad. They do great dps and in pvp they can hold their own just fine especially if you play dual wield vamp

because in pvp it's self healing is plain bad, just because it has major mending doesn't mean it's actually good at healing itself, it's healing skills have lower tool tips than any other class, or they're situationally effective, it's the only class where it's better at healing groups than itself. it's damage is mediocre and it's sustain isn't good, it's stun options are all bad. it's good at group support and that's about it, if you want to play something something similar play stamden or magcro. both are much better. in pve they're fine except for frostden which still needs help.

Rapid regen + living trellis + arctic blast seems like a pretty potent healing combo. Lotus adds a small amount too.

I guess they don't have a burst heal like templar or mag dk but Rapid has a much higher tooltip than those heals anyway, and it allows you to swap bars and go back offensive.

I guess I'm just surprised people think magwarden is so bad. I've seen some good ones just wrecking people. Their burst seems just as scary as stamwarden.

oterWitz

nightstrike wrote: »

I do about 9k dps.... maybe it's just a hard build to play, and I don't know how to do it effectively.

Definitely sounds like build/rotation issues rather than the class. People here would be happy to help, though probably best to start your own thread if you want it (Oh and PS, when people parse for dps numbers they do it on a 21m iron atro which has buffs and debuffs which roughly double dps compared to using a different dummy. I hope you didn't beat on the atro for over half an hour to get 9k! You'd be more likely sitting around 20k is my bet.)

Back to the thread- I agree that sustain is a bit of an issue, though I always assumed that was a 'me' problem rather than magden. I'm glad the devs are trying to make iceden dps more viable as I imagine this will help magdens have a clear role on trial teams. I know in the past people have explained away the absence of warden dps because warden healers or tanks provide their class buffs, so if there were something specifically in the dps kit that wardens brought it would be cool

Also, in my experience warden is the easiest class for the solo arenas (except magsorc probably, but I don't have one), but it seems one of the least popular based on leaderboard fill and score pushing. I've always thought this is because there are fewer magden dps running around than sorcs and nightblades due to the aforementioned redundant buffs in raids, though that's just a small anecdote and I could be wrong.

ESO_Nightingale

Stx wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I'm not sure why people think magden is bad. They do great dps and in pvp they can hold their own just fine especially if you play dual wield vamp

because in pvp it's self healing is plain bad, just because it has major mending doesn't mean it's actually good at healing itself, it's healing skills have lower tool tips than any other class, or they're situationally effective, it's the only class where it's better at healing groups than itself. it's damage is mediocre and it's sustain isn't good, it's stun options are all bad. it's good at group support and that's about it, if you want to play something something similar play stamden or magcro. both are much better. in pve they're fine except for frostden which still needs help.

Rapid regen + living trellis + arctic blast seems like a pretty potent healing combo. Lotus adds a small amount too.

I guess they don't have a burst heal like templar or mag dk but Rapid has a much higher tooltip than those heals anyway, and it allows you to swap bars and go back offensive.

I guess I'm just surprised people think magwarden is so bad. I've seen some good ones just wrecking people. Their burst seems just as scary as stamwarden.

They can no longer achieve the trinity of good enough healing, damage and sustain