PTS Update 31 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for any combat or class change. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance and changes.

electriczzz

I do not appreciated the changes to armor passives one bit. Removing crit from medium armor and giving that + physical pen to light armor seems a bit overkill. I'll lose roughly 8% crit chance on my current stamblade build if I will no longer get medium armor crit chance which would put me on 55% which is too low to benefit from the crit damage passive for the crit damage. Also why the hell would I need extra healing on medium armor? For my one healing ability called vigor? Since crushing weapon will no longer heal I couldn't even count on the heal from the spammable to benefit from the extra healing. Sometimes I wonder who comes up with those ideas, those changes will most likely make stamina damage dealers irrelevant for any endgame PvE content.

YandereGirlfriend

@ZOS_GinaBruno The No-Proc campaign truly needs to be its own new campaign rather than cannibalizing Ravenwatch.

This is a matter of existential importance to the existing Ravenwatch player base.

The proposed changes represent the worst of all possible outcomes, with CP players dissatisfied and unwilling to switch over to Non-CP and Non-CP players despondent over losing access to the format that they love.

And all of this while we have two redundant CP campaigns, one of which (Blackreach) remains perennially underpopulated compared to the main campaign. I do not want to volunteer Blackreach without their consent but it should be noted that it is not a unique format and would thus make a much more suitable candidate for repurposing into the No-Proc campaign.

A brand new campaign, however, remains the best option that will satisfy the most players.

prof_doom

electriczzz wrote: »

I do not appreciated the changes to armor passives one bit. Removing crit from medium armor and giving that + physical pen to light armor seems a bit overkill. I'll lose roughly 8% crit chance on my current stamblade build if I will no longer get medium armor crit chance which would put me on 55% which is too low to benefit from the crit damage passive for the crit damage. Also why the hell would I need extra healing on medium armor? For my one healing ability called vigor? Since crushing weapon will no longer heal I couldn't even count on the heal from the spammable to benefit from the extra healing. Sometimes I wonder who comes up with those ideas, those changes will most likely make stamina damage dealers irrelevant for any endgame PvE content.

People are starting to do the math, and it looks like it's probably an overall damage nerf to everything but the handful of max crit stamina builds.

So at best, you can say this change is shoehorning every single stamina player into a very tiny box.
But really, let's just call it a nerf.

Cirantille

If we were not going to be able to use the sets we paid for, then why did you make them scale with stats?
This already solved the issue that no one can run Kill-by-LA sets and be defensive, or be full defensive and good at damage
Restricting people is a very bad idea whereas giving them options is more in line with play-how-you-want.
Give people a no-proc as option.

Ps. Also some of the sets not being included does not even make sense. What is wrong with New moon acolyte?
Or better yet why Stygian is disabled? Stygian has the same calculation as "Strike from shadows", they are both activated upon leaving sneak/invisibility.
This is clearly not a well planned/thought change

WrathOfInnos

prof_doom wrote: »

electriczzz wrote: »

I do not appreciated the changes to armor passives one bit. Removing crit from medium armor and giving that + physical pen to light armor seems a bit overkill. I'll lose roughly 8% crit chance on my current stamblade build if I will no longer get medium armor crit chance which would put me on 55% which is too low to benefit from the crit damage passive for the crit damage. Also why the hell would I need extra healing on medium armor? For my one healing ability called vigor? Since crushing weapon will no longer heal I couldn't even count on the heal from the spammable to benefit from the extra healing. Sometimes I wonder who comes up with those ideas, those changes will most likely make stamina damage dealers irrelevant for any endgame PvE content.

People are starting to do the math, and it looks like it's probably an overall damage nerf to everything but the handful of max crit stamina builds.

So at best, you can say this change is shoehorning every single stamina player into a very tiny box.
But really, let's just call it a nerf.

It’s not as bad as it sounds. Losing 7% crit chance and gaining 14% crit damage. Or to put it another way, losing the equivalent of 71% of the Thief Mundus to gain 78% of the Shadow Mundus. It’s still a DPS loss, but less than 1%.

Overall stamina groups should see a damage increase from the new physical penetration options. Alkosh is now 6k, which is more penetration than Magicka groups have in 6 pieces light armor. There is also the new tank set with an easy to maintain AoE armor debuff that stacks with Alkosh.

I do agree with the shoehorning point. AY will be more meta than ever, with some use of Tzogvins, Leviathan and Dragonguard Elite possible.

prof_doom

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Overall stamina groups should see a damage increase from the new physical penetration options. Alkosh is now 6k, which is more penetration than Magicka groups have in 6 pieces light armor. There is also the new tank set with an easy to maintain

The question is whether anyone is going actually to use either set.
Magicka groups still don't need extra penetration.

electriczzz

prof_doom wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Overall stamina groups should see a damage increase from the new physical penetration options. Alkosh is now 6k, which is more penetration than Magicka groups have in 6 pieces light armor. There is also the new tank set with an easy to maintain

The question is whether anyone is going actually to use either set.
Magicka groups still don't need extra penetration.

I've seen multiple guilds recruiting people for trials with the requirement being a magicka DD and I can't even blame them, mag DDs have the range, the crit, the peneration and (most of them) aren't locked out by boss mechanics due to the are on range already. With the new changes I am wondering what'll happen to stam dds when they realize all of a sudden they are bottlenecked into using AY. With kinra+ rele and 2daggers on my khajiit stamblade I got 63% crit atm with kilt buffs up to 74%, I wonder how the numbers may look with the new armor passives.

Elo106

I like the armor changes opening builds up to use all 3 types now. But please for the love of god give DKs one of the several requested changes, across the forums.

IARTOI

Since the rework on whole vampire skill line as we all know only mist form is usable in game (maybe vampire ultimate in some cases). All other vampire active skills are trash and don't have unique features for replace with class or weapon skills.

Eviscerate: and it's morphs got nerf after release. And now it has nothing special to be an alternative for magicka class. Maybe it could have stamina morph too.

Blood Frenzy and it's morphs lost their effectiveness after nerfs so its not being used.

Vampiric Drain and it's morphs... I remember the days when we had only 3 active vampire skills and we were happy. All of them was working really good. Please bring back the old damage value of vampiric drain to be competitive for other weapon and class spammables. Also one morph can be stamina based so stamina classes can have alternative.

Mesmerize and it's morphs. This skill has too much cost and provide nothing worth to use. So noone is using.

ZoS came with good idea for rework on Vampire Skill Line but they have failed. They added 3 more skills but they also reduced the working skill number to "1". I hope these skills gets one more rework.

gariondavey

Inner beast change - not allowed for pvp please. That is too much. @ZOS_GinaBruno

CP5

After going through the patch notes these are a few of my reactions while I wait for pts to finish updating.

Crushing Weapon; kinda find this change funny at the most. I generally run group content and generally, either the tank or now healer with ele-drain doing this, provide the major breach passive as is. The heal was nice to give you an option in a spammable that healed for high damage fights. Now in those groups this morph choice doesn't really do anything, just like focus aim doing minor breach when the popular puncture morph does it as well.

Deliberation; it's nice to see you guys realize after nerfing many of the major/minor buffs that they're too weak to be worth bothering with. Giving this passive a unique pass is good at making it relevant again, but some other things need attention as well, I feel. The night blade shadow ultimate, veil something, honestly can't remember its name off hand given how no one uses it. Tiny aoe, maybe heals, I forget, provides a laughably weak defensive bonus for an ultimate, things like that could use a pass as well I feel.

And just because it's been since pre-Elsweyr since I honestly tried using the skill, could the dev's please take another pass at mend wounds? The skill used to be so fun to use in niche fights where healing a priority target mattered, with the strong heal over time you could aim and the focused healing of the heavy attack. Making it 'free' to cast but laughably weak makes it too much work to bother slotting, the opportunity cost of turning the skill on/off is outweighed by just doing a resto heavy attack. Just, make say the symbiosis morph act like it did pre-elsweyr and see if people bother using it again, if we're looking at things that aren't used that's one on my own personal list that I would enjoy getting looked at.

ajkb78

IARTOI wrote: »

Since the rework on whole vampire skill line as we all know only mist form is usable in game (maybe vampire ultimate in some cases). All other vampire active skills are trash and don't have unique features for replace with class or weapon skills.

Eviscerate: and it's morphs got nerf after release. And now it has nothing special to be an alternative for magicka class. Maybe it could have stamina morph too.

Blood Frenzy and it's morphs lost their effectiveness after nerfs so its not being used.

Vampiric Drain and it's morphs... I remember the days when we had only 3 active vampire skills and we were happy. All of them was working really good. Please bring back the old damage value of vampiric drain to be competitive for other weapon and class spammables. Also one morph can be stamina based so stamina classes can have alternative.

Mesmerize and it's morphs. This skill has too much cost and provide nothing worth to use. So noone is using.

ZoS came with good idea for rework on Vampire Skill Line but they have failed. They added 3 more skills but they also reduced the working skill number to "1". I hope these skills gets one more rework.

The vampire line might not fit your use but it's still strong in PvP. Exhilarating drain is an op way to get fast ulti recharge on a bomber, not something you'd have permaslotted but after your bomb, drink potions and go use it on the nearest NPC enemies to get ready to go again. And mist form has been made kind of borderline essential for tanking Rock Grove, or for anyone doing the hard modes. It's kind of the worst mechanic design I've seen in the game, I love everything else about that trial but content should never force one and only one possible build choice.

Ragnaroek93

Buffing Templar (again) and ignoring magblade (again)...

BattleAxe

Leave the crit chance on medium armor stamina dps is already undesired for trials this is just shoehorning players who like to play stamina to only be good in pvp. If nothing else take away a different medium passive and give crit chance in its place.

YandereGirlfriend

I like the change to Frost Touch and the effort to provide Frost Wardens with an actual Frost Damage spammable.

However... where is the love for Shock Mages?

I just hopped on the PTS and the new morph of Frost Reach deals higher damage than BOTH Shock Reach AND Shock Clench! And this is even with those Shock Damage abilities buffed by the new 10% Ancient Knowledge passive to AoE damage.

To make matters even worse, Shock Clench is still limited to the tiny range of 15 meters despite not having any CC component tied to it, which is the usual justification for such short ranges. It is thus weaker along two different axes and is inferior to Frost Reach in every possible way.

This is simply unacceptable. Shock Mages do not have a spammable of their own and are now clearly established as the forgotten archetype among elemental damage dealers. Please rectify this situation.

WrathOfInnos

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Buffing Templar (again) and ignoring magblade (again)...

Yes, buffing the worst DPS (fixing Purifying Light scaling and the issues with beam while using Bahsei’s Mania) and leaving the best alone (no Nightblade nerfs ). It’s a great day for ESO.

YandereGirlfriend

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Buffing Templar (again) and ignoring magblade (again)...

Yes, buffing the worst DPS (fixing Purifying Light scaling and the issues with beam while using Bahsei’s Mania) and leaving the best alone (no Nightblade nerfs ). It’s a great day for ESO.

Would have been nice if they had applied that line of thinking when Death Knell was on the chopping block.

Ragnaroek93

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Buffing Templar (again) and ignoring magblade (again)...

Yes, buffing the worst DPS (fixing Purifying Light scaling and the issues with beam while using Bahsei’s Mania) and leaving the best alone (no Nightblade nerfs ). It’s a great day for ESO.

Go tell PvP players that mNb is the best class in PvP lmao. And the Templar buff was because of PvP according to their comment xd

RogueShark

electriczzz wrote: »

I do not appreciated the changes to armor passives one bit. Removing crit from medium armor and giving that + physical pen to light armor seems a bit overkill. I'll lose roughly 8% crit chance on my current stamblade build if I will no longer get medium armor crit chance which would put me on 55% which is too low to benefit from the crit damage passive for the crit damage. Also why the hell would I need extra healing on medium armor? For my one healing ability called vigor? Since crushing weapon will no longer heal I couldn't even count on the heal from the spammable to benefit from the extra healing. Sometimes I wonder who comes up with those ideas, those changes will most likely make stamina damage dealers irrelevant for any endgame PvE content.

Agreed, this is becoming an issue. We lost pen from CP last PTS, now we're losing crit.

Stam already falls way behind in PvE. There's a reason I'm the only stam in all my prog groups... and I already have to sacrifice my crit to be able to barely get to pen cap (or sit just below it) because mag doesn't need pen sets because they get it free on their armor and so tanks aren't running alkosh. Mag is just pulling more ahead, as usual, in PvE content.

L_Nici

I agree that medium armor has to keep its Critchance. Critchance is already insanely hard to come by on stamina without sacrificing an entire 5 piece for Leviathan or similar, taking away the chance from medium armor will be an insane nerf. Of what use is critdamage, if I never even do crit?
There is skills like Critical Surge of Sorcs for example that need a critchance to function, with the medium armor critchance gone, there is absolutely no use in it anymore, since you will almost never crit for that heal. Which in turn forces Stamsorcs on 2h for Rally, which also lowers their weapon power by 2%, since Rally is no Sorcerer skill.
The best would be to leave the magical critchance on Light Armor and the physical one on Medium Armor, otherwise Medium Armor won't be viable at all anymore.

Also with the new CP we lost Pen already and only light armor still gets it up to nice values, now we lose crit on top.

WrathOfInnos

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Buffing Templar (again) and ignoring magblade (again)...

Yes, buffing the worst DPS (fixing Purifying Light scaling and the issues with beam while using Bahsei’s Mania) and leaving the best alone (no Nightblade nerfs ). It’s a great day for ESO.

Go tell PvP players that mNb is the best class in PvP lmao. And the Templar buff was because of PvP according to their comment xd

Fair enough, I’m happy about the changes for PVE balance

Marillea

You are taking away critical chance, when stamina is already lacking penetration, requiring a tank to cater to us OR have to give up further critical chance from daggers/precise to run sharpened and maces.

This changes cannot be serious, if anything take away stuff like "Improved sneak" and leave it into the cp passives, and finally provide medium armor with critical chance AND penetration. Stop pushing stamina players behind in PvE.

Hybrid builds should be possible, but not at the expense of pure stamina damage dealers.

FrancisCrawford

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno The No-Proc campaign truly needs to be its own new campaign rather than cannibalizing Ravenwatch.

This is a matter of existential importance to the existing Ravenwatch player base.

The proposed changes represent the worst of all possible outcomes, with CP players dissatisfied and unwilling to switch over to Non-CP and Non-CP players despondent over losing access to the format that they love.

And all of this while we have two redundant CP campaigns, one of which (Blackreach) remains perennially underpopulated compared to the main campaign. I do not want to volunteer Blackreach without their consent but it should be noted that it is not a unique format and would thus make a much more suitable candidate for repurposing into the No-Proc campaign.

A brand new campaign, however, remains the best option that will satisfy the most players.

Blackreach is essential for luring PvEers into Cyrodiil. If Blackreach changes in nature, then it is mandatory to also:

• Remove any Cyrodiil-based possibilities from the endeavor roation.
• Provide another good source of transmute crystals.

FrancisCrawford

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I like the change to Frost Touch and the effort to provide Frost Wardens with an actual Frost Damage spammable.

However... where is the love for Shock Mages?

I just hopped on the PTS and the new morph of Frost Reach deals higher damage than BOTH Shock Reach AND Shock Clench! And this is even with those Shock Damage abilities buffed by the new 10% Ancient Knowledge passive to AoE damage.

To make matters even worse, Shock Clench is still limited to the tiny range of 15 meters despite not having any CC component tied to it, which is the usual justification for such short ranges. It is thus weaker along two different axes and is inferior to Frost Reach in every possible way.

This is simply unacceptable. Shock Mages do not have a spammable of their own and are now clearly established as the forgotten archetype among elemental damage dealers. Please rectify this situation.

Shock damage is for casual play, where enemies are weak enough that spamming AoE is realistic.

Extinct_Solo_Player

DK needs some love

emilyhyoyeon

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I like the change to Frost Touch and the effort to provide Frost Wardens with an actual Frost Damage spammable.

However... where is the love for Shock Mages?

I just hopped on the PTS and the new morph of Frost Reach deals higher damage than BOTH Shock Reach AND Shock Clench! And this is even with those Shock Damage abilities buffed by the new 10% Ancient Knowledge passive to AoE damage.

To make matters even worse, Shock Clench is still limited to the tiny range of 15 meters despite not having any CC component tied to it, which is the usual justification for such short ranges. It is thus weaker along two different axes and is inferior to Frost Reach in every possible way.

This is simply unacceptable. Shock Mages do not have a spammable of their own and are now clearly established as the forgotten archetype among elemental damage dealers. Please rectify this situation.

I agree. I think a good solution is to make destructive reach an elemental spammable for the 3 types.

Could make them differ a bit in terms of the initial hit damage number. Shock can have 100% increased initial hit damage instead of ice's 80%, for example, since concussed doesn't do anything anymore in terms of PVE/dps. Not sure about fire especially since fire already has a lot of damage tools.

Maybe there's better solutions but I think each element deserves an available-to-all-classes spammable.

Oakiyo

It seems like the medium armor doesn't provide magical critical. Is that a forgoten passive for the hybridation of armor bonus ?
@ZOS_GinaBruno

YandereGirlfriend

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno The No-Proc campaign truly needs to be its own new campaign rather than cannibalizing Ravenwatch.

This is a matter of existential importance to the existing Ravenwatch player base.

The proposed changes represent the worst of all possible outcomes, with CP players dissatisfied and unwilling to switch over to Non-CP and Non-CP players despondent over losing access to the format that they love.

And all of this while we have two redundant CP campaigns, one of which (Blackreach) remains perennially underpopulated compared to the main campaign. I do not want to volunteer Blackreach without their consent but it should be noted that it is not a unique format and would thus make a much more suitable candidate for repurposing into the No-Proc campaign.

A brand new campaign, however, remains the best option that will satisfy the most players.

Blackreach is essential for luring PvEers into Cyrodiil. If Blackreach changes in nature, then it is mandatory to also:

• Remove any Cyrodiil-based possibilities from the endeavor roation.
• Provide another good source of transmute crystals.

Well then they should simply create a separate campaign for No-Proc.

If it's as popular as some of the loudest voices seem to think that it is then surely it wouldn't have trouble fielding a healthy population....

People don't play in Ravenwatch because they don't like sets. They play there because they don't like CP. Yet we're the ones getting punished to appease a vocal minority of the PvP population.

shrekt4303

The root cause is having crit as a requirement to min max in pve. Just give crit resist to enemies so its not as effective.

LeHarrt91

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I like the change to Frost Touch and the effort to provide Frost Wardens with an actual Frost Damage spammable.

However... where is the love for Shock Mages?

I just hopped on the PTS and the new morph of Frost Reach deals higher damage than BOTH Shock Reach AND Shock Clench! And this is even with those Shock Damage abilities buffed by the new 10% Ancient Knowledge passive to AoE damage.

To make matters even worse, Shock Clench is still limited to the tiny range of 15 meters despite not having any CC component tied to it, which is the usual justification for such short ranges. It is thus weaker along two different axes and is inferior to Frost Reach in every possible way.

This is simply unacceptable. Shock Mages do not have a spammable of their own and are now clearly established as the forgotten archetype among elemental damage dealers. Please rectify this situation.

What class are you checking these on? and what are their CP allocations?