Why do I do so little damage?

Zama666

Hello,

PVE - it seems my hit do something (combat metric tracks it)

PVP - 1:1 fights are so quick. I die. But when I do get attacks in, they opponent barely has their health go down. It seems one or two strikes, I am done. I see hits like 2x14k attacks, and then one more, I am done.

So I do I hit harder or at least protect myself.

I could sure use a PvP mechanics and gear group ...

MrMazurski

But what a class you have, sets, dmg, pen stats?

danthemann5

Possible answers:

1. Suboptimal build/gear/skills
2. Insufficient experience to properly respond
3. Wrong place, wrong time
4. A combination of any or all of the above

Unfortunately, without more information, it is impossible to identify where you might need to make improvement. Consider looking at the PvP leader boards for the class you play and talk to some of the people who are playing your class successfully.

VaranisArano

There's a lot of reasons why you aren't doing a lot of damage, so there's no simple answer. I'll try to go over some basics.

1. Your PVP opponents are buffed, using HOTs, and able to turtle defensively. As they fight, they keep these buffs and HOTs up so that they don't ever get into the danger zone or execute range where an opponent could use burst damage to kill them. They are also using movement to mitigate damage by moving around or kiting through obstacles.

2. Your PVP opponents are using burst damage or combos of skills against you to overwhelm your defenses.

In effect, if you aren't using an effective burst combo of damage, your PVP opponents are healing right through whatever you throw at them. Meanwhile, if you aren't buffing and healing over time, they can just chunk you down with their combos.


Now, improving takes a lot of practice. If you give us more details about your build, you'll probably get some specific advice about how PVPers play that class/build or what combos of attacks they use. Expect that it will take time to use those combos effectively and remember that PVP damage is often reactive. You see a weakness in your enemy or they drop to low health - boom, that's the moment to go on the offensive.

For more general advice, I'd encourage you to work on your active defenses. In PVE, defense can be reactive. Often you have time to heal up from any hit that's not a one-shot. In PVP, you must be proactive with your defense. That means you buff up and keep your HOTs going so you don't get to 50-25% health and execute range. As you run in Cyrodiil, you'll probably notice that many PVPers are buffed before they start the fight, and it's not uncommon to see them buff at random times even in a "safe" keep. It's a lifesaving habit.

fred4

VaranisArano wrote: »

For more general advice, I'd encourage you to work on your active defenses. In PVE, defense can be reactive. Often you have time to heal up from any hit that's not a one-shot. In PVP, you must be proactive with your defense. That means you buff up and keep your HOTs going so you don't get to 50-25% health and execute range. As you run in Cyrodiil, you'll probably notice that many PVPers are buffed before they start the fight, and it's not uncommon to see them buff at random times even in a "safe" keep. It's a lifesaving habit.

I agree that this is true for at least half the population, the tanky necros, wardens and DKs, the shielding magsorcs. As to keeping yourself buffed at all times I would call that 100% common among experienced players. It just has to become second nature. However there is definitely a distinction between what I call buff-heavy and buff-light playstyles. If you have 3 or more pure buff skills, I'd call that buff heavy. Personally I prefer buff-light characters, those that only have, say, two buffs to keep up. Those characters typically rely more on speed and dodge rolls, e.g. they are the nightblades and the stamsorcs. Funnily enough I find even magplar can be fairly buff-light, as their main defense tends to be being passively tanky (Pariah, these days) and (block-)healing back up to full with Honor the Dead after having taken damage.

Waffennacht

Probably insufficient gear

Probably stats are off for what you're going for.

Based on the question itself.

fred4

Waffennacht wrote: »

Probably insufficient gear

Probably stats are off for what you're going for.

Based on the question itself.

I honestly think Varanis is on to something. Why are PvEers easy to kill? Because they don't buff. Because they have no dodge roll reflexes. Because they don't run Miat's addon . Why are they no threat? Because they don't burst. Because they're probably not top class PvEers either. If a top class PvEer lays a full rotation on you (and manages to survive) you will feel the pressure, even if they don't play a typical PvP burst combo.

Builds are just easy to talk about. Yeah, it could have to do with being specced for crit and sustained damage, rather than pen and burst damage, but simply PvP experience probably counts for more.

Zama666

Holy Crap!

A lot of good stuff. Really appreciate the help!

I think you are on the nose about my lack of buffing and being able to defend from burst damage. and inability to perform burst damage

Yes, I am a PVE person. I try to be a bit more tanky to outlast bosses and some running around.
Player skill: I like to run dungeons alone, and on non vet can make it thru a few. On Vet, I die, but last longer than PvP

Running a templar,
with heavy Hundings (5pc),
Storm Fist Monster 2 pc set with ,
running sword n board,
multi effect enchants on all gear,
and run Divines. (yes, I liked the TBS set)

But do enjoy healing others, but also myself so have a resto staff on the other bar

Spell and Physical resistance are about 20k
Spell and Physical pen...700? umm...that seems low...

Weapon Crit 30%
Weapon Damage 3261

Potions - I usually put on Bewitched Sugar skulls as a nice all rounder...

Go easy on me, I am such a PvP noob, gank fodder, punching bag....

Tanks!

Z

fred4

So the thing about being buffed at all times means better defense, sure, but also that you are ready to counterattack at all times.

Well, your gear is wrong. Are you a magplar or a stamplar? You can't really run Hunding's (stamina set) and a resto staff (magicka weapon). Well, you can, if you're building some sort of hybrid build, but lets assume that's not where you're at. First decision you have to make: Are you a magicka or stamina templar. If you don't know or don't care, then we need to know your race to make the appropriate recommendation.

Next: 1H+S and resto staff are both defensive weapons. That generally won't work. You need an offensive weapon and defensive weapon. Everything being equal, I recommend you ditch the resto staff and retain 1H+S as the back bar weapon.

As you like healing others from time to time, I would recommend you become a magicka templar. That means investing into magicka, magicka regeneration and using predominantly magicka skills. However your race should factor into the decision, if you want to be optimal.

Yes, your pen is ... non-existent. PvPers have anything from 10K to 30K penetration when they burst. How? Sharpened weapons, mauls / maces, sets that give pen (Spriggan, Stuhn, Spinner's, Heartland Conqueror etc.), light armor, Major and / or Minor penetration buffs (Elemental Drain, Pierce Armor and so on) and, to top it all off, Balorgh is often used as the monster set.

All Divines is a no no. On a ganking nightblade ... maybe ... but in general you want to run all Impenetrable or some mixture of Impenetrable and Well-Fitted. Divines might be used with the Shadow mundus or maybe a penetration or armor mundus, but ... meh. The regen munduses are good, because their value is relatively high and they boost your out of combat regen (when you're standing on a flag, doing a buff cycle for example). The weapon / spell damage munduses are also always a good compromise, because they boost both damage and healing as well as any proc sets you may wear. With those munduses you won't generally go Divines.

Damage, this patch, is extremely high and therefore half the population, those who know what they're doing, are running Pariah, one of the few sets that still provides reasonable all-round damage mitigation. The problem with having only 20K resistances is that some, heck even most PvPers, will hit right through that. Armor is mathematically still one of the best defenses, but you need to stack it. Especially on a templar that is traditionally one of the ways that class tends to work. If you're going that route you need to aim for at least 30K buffed resistances, ideally more like 35K. (However personally I find that good stamina sustain and speed - Wild Hunt - also works. You're more liable to be one shot, though.)

The top PvP monster sets include:
Balorgh (high damage after ultimate use)
Malubeth (on a melee class like templar - enhances self-healing)
Bloodspawn (just all round good PvP set)
Zoal (new, CCs (disables) opponents when you get stunned)
Engine Guardian (gives you resources and is annoying to fight against, since opponents frequently hit it instead of you)

Bewitched Sugar Skulls are fine, but it depends on the build.

As a stamina templar, the kind of sets you should be looking at include:

Pariah
Deadly Strike (+20% Jabs damage)
Good old Shacklebreaker for some magicka sustain
Eternal Vigor
Stuhn (if you use Toppling Charge)
Heartland Conqueror
Spriggan's

As a magicka templar:

Pariah
Amber Plasm
Shacklebreaker
Eternal Vigor
Auroran's Thunder or Overwhelming Surge
Stuhn (if you use Toppling Charge)
Heartland Conqueror
Spinner's

Very hard to get away from wearing one defensive set and one offensive set, these days, and Pariah is everyone's #1 on the list for the defensive set. Buffer of the Swift is another, but ... meh.

Amber Plasm, Shacklebreaker and Eternal Vigor give you opposite stat. As a stamplar you want that for Extended Ritual and possibly Toppling Charge. As a magplar you want that for dodge rolling, breaking free and sprinting.

Stuhn, Spinner's, Spriggan's are all pen sets, which are generally some of the best sets for PvP.

Thunder and Overwhelming Surge are lightning sets that may proc Minor Vulnerability on the target and that may help you keep nightblades exposed, because they are AOE.

Heartland Conqueror is new and very flexible. A typical way of running this might be with a Sharpened Weapon on the front bar for the pen and a Powered weapon on the back bar for extra healing. Defending is also a good back bar trait and, together with this set, another way to get your resistances up into the 30s, at least so long as you are on the back bar.

In either case you may consider becoming a vampire. Vamp stage 3 synergises with wearing Pariah and Mist Form is one of the best defensive skills a templar can use.

Heavy versus medium or light armor tends to be a personal preference. Medium / light facilitate higher damage and more dodge rolling. I prefer that. You can wear Pariah jewelry in that case.

Front bar weapon should probably be Lightning Staff (magplar) or DW (magplar) or 2H maul (magplar / stamplar)
Back bar weapon should probably be 1H+S (magplar / stamplar) or resto staff (magplar) or bow (stamplar)

Good Templar PvP skills include:

Jabs / Sweeps (front bar). You want to pay attention and push tooltip damage as high as you can. Something like 4K in CP with Major Brutality / Sorcery is a good value. Easier to reach on stamplar. Incidentally templar is mostly a pressure class. It's burst potential has been nerfed and was never that great. This, however, does make it easy to play. Combine Sweeps with Solar Barrage, Crescent Sweep and Elemental Drain as a magplar and you are an AOE monster. Radiant Glory / Oppression is iffy in a 1v1. Just doesn't do enough. However it's pretty nasty when you're zerging players.

Toppling Charge (front bar). Look no further for a gap closer, CC and source of off balance. Good on either flavor of the class.

Extended Ritual (back bar). Your cleanse and healing area to fight in. Can, in particular, prevent sorcs and DKs from bursting you in duels as you cleans off their effects (sorc curse / execute, DK DOTs). Class defining staple skill on both flavors of the class.

Channeled or Restoring Focus (back bar). Always keep this up. I prefer getting stam, rather than mag, via Restoring Focus on magplar as well as stamplar. Helps with retaining your stamina while sprinting or blocking. The resistances make this a staple skill on every single PvP class / build. No PvPer runs without their resistance skill and they never drop this buff.

Race Against Time or Mist Form or using bow + medium armor + Shuffle. Your speed / escape skills. Indispensible.

Honor the Dead and Living Dark on magplar. The latter is flexible, but kind of hard to live without. Also for the snare it puts on opponents.

Resolving Vigor, Rally and probably Repentence on stamplar. Your heals and sustain skills.

Crescent Sweep: Cheap, powerful and even works on stamplar.

LightYagami

Zama666 wrote: »

Holy Crap!

A lot of good stuff. Really appreciate the help!

I think you are on the nose about my lack of buffing and being able to defend from burst damage. and inability to perform burst damage

Yes, I am a PVE person. I try to be a bit more tanky to outlast bosses and some running around.
Player skill: I like to run dungeons alone, and on non vet can make it thru a few. On Vet, I die, but last longer than PvP

Running a templar,
with heavy Hundings (5pc),
Storm Fist Monster 2 pc set with ,
running sword n board,
multi effect enchants on all gear,
and run Divines. (yes, I liked the TBS set)

But do enjoy healing others, but also myself so have a resto staff on the other bar

Spell and Physical resistance are about 20k
Spell and Physical pen...700? umm...that seems low...

Weapon Crit 30%
Weapon Damage 3261

Potions - I usually put on Bewitched Sugar skulls as a nice all rounder...

Go easy on me, I am such a PvP noob, gank fodder, punching bag....

Tanks!

Z

A few questions for people to better understand your situation:

What's your CP?
What about your health, stam, magicka? (After food buff)
Which sets are you wearing in addition to the monster set?
What mundus stone do you use?
Do you block or roll dodge frequently?

MrMazurski

I don't play too much with Templar, but I saw a good set once.
Leviathan + Dreugh King Slayer + any offensive monster set.

I do not think that this set up gave high survivability, but from what I know the critics were at with out CP at the level of 60% and the damage was around 5-6k. Jab Jab Jab did their job.

another thing is, you have to mix your sets. I mean, if you can wear a heavy chest then put it on. Like gloves and a belt are the first items you replace with lighter weights because they give you the least amount of armor.

fred4

MrMazurski wrote: »

I don't play too much with Templar, but I saw a good set once.
Leviathan + Dreugh King Slayer + any offensive monster set.

Leviathan is tempting, because templar has a crit damage passive. However, it is very and I mean very hard to get away from Deadly Strike for pure damage on a stamplar. If I wanted to boost crit and go for pure damage, I would be tempted to run a Precise Maul, Heartland Conqueror and Deadly Strike, this patch, probably with a Master's 1H+S back bar.

Dreugh Kind Slayer is just a no. You're going to run Rally. You need it for the heal on stamplar and you're going to cover the Major Brutality that way.

I do not think that this set up gave high survivability, but from what I know the critics were at with out CP at the level of 60% and the damage was around 5-6k. Jab Jab Jab did their job.

It is true that stamplar needs to be played very aggressively. IMO it is all about aggression, but in this patch the damage is so extremely high already. Stamplar is not my main class. I have played it very little. What's worked best for me, so far, is a variation of Kristofer ESO's build, e.g. build for health and weapon damage, then use Bone Shield, Blazing Shield and Bear Haunch for a somewhat hybrid playstyle. You can forego Pariah, but health and shields make you somewhat tanky.

Waffennacht

You're a stamina templar that runs resto BB.

Only the best of the best can get away with a weapon combination like that.

The above advice is what you're lookin for

taugrim

fred4 wrote: »

Why are PvEers easy to kill? Because they don't buff. Because they have no dodge roll reflexes. Because they don't run Miat's addon . Why are they no threat? Because they don't burst. Because they're probably not top class PvEers either.

Also
* PVE doesn't prepare you for hitting PVP targets
* PVE players are far slower to Break Free than PVP players
* PVE players don't know what abilities and counters opponents do in PVP
* PVE players tend to build for glass cannon, which only works if you are high-finesse and very very good with your aiming and timing

angelofdeath333

Could be
1: not enough pen.
2: you need to work on a burst rotation and make sure to light attack inbetween every attack.
3: youre a magicka-toon and youre fighting stam-toons.

4: Youre just inexperienced when it comes to PvP. Everyone is new at some Point.

angelofdeath333

taugrim wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Why are PvEers easy to kill? Because they don't buff. Because they have no dodge roll reflexes. Because they don't run Miat's addon . Why are they no threat? Because they don't burst. Because they're probably not top class PvEers either.

Also
* PVE doesn't prepare you for hitting PVP targets
* PVE players are far slower to Break Free than PVP players
* PVE players don't know what abilities and counters opponents do in PVP
* PVE players tend to build for glass cannon, which only works if you are high-finesse and very very good with your aiming and timing

Basically this. Dont build like a class canon untill youre REALLY comfortable with your class, you really got to know its strenghts and weaknesess IF you wanna play a glass canon.

Unless youre a ganker, then you can be a glass canon from day one, ofc.

MrMazurski

fred4 wrote: »

MrMazurski wrote: »

I don't play too much with Templar, but I saw a good set once.
Leviathan + Dreugh King Slayer + any offensive monster set.

Leviathan is tempting, because templar has a crit damage passive. However, it is very and I mean very hard to get away from Deadly Strike for pure damage on a stamplar. If I wanted to boost crit and go for pure damage, I would be tempted to run a Precise Maul, Heartland Conqueror and Deadly Strike, this patch, probably with a Master's 1H+S back bar.

Dreugh Kind Slayer is just a no. You're going to run Rally. You need it for the heal on stamplar and you're going to cover the Major Brutality that way.

I do not think that this set up gave high survivability, but from what I know the critics were at with out CP at the level of 60% and the damage was around 5-6k. Jab Jab Jab did their job.

It is true that stamplar needs to be played very aggressively. IMO it is all about aggression, but in this patch the damage is so extremely high already. Stamplar is not my main class. I have played it very little. What's worked best for me, so far, is a variation of Kristofer ESO's build, e.g. build for health and weapon damage, then use Bone Shield, Blazing Shield and Bear Haunch for a somewhat hybrid playstyle. You can forego Pariah, but health and shields make you somewhat tanky.

Yea thx for tips.

I am always very tempted by Brainheart. I miss the Jab Jab Jab heal, just like the magic version of it does

Kaysha

I think your build or gear choices are completely irrelevant.
The first thing you have to learn is to make the right movement decisions.
Try to never stand still, try to get behind things (opponent, corners, trees, stones) while fighting at the same time.
Start a fight with a dodge roll the moment your opponent attacks you. Block attacks (but not all the time).
Use your movement to prevent hits.
Keep your buffs up. Always. In PvP your are in fight the moment you leave your home base.
Don´t get in situations where you a severely outnumbered.
Assign dodge to a key.
Assign break-free to a key/mousewheel.

fred4

Kaysha wrote: »

I think your build or gear choices are completely irrelevant.

While I agree with the sentiment, you probably wouldn't say that, if you'd read what the OP has been wearing, e.g. Hunding's Rage + resto staff. He is simply a PvP beginner and at that point everything is relevant.

Kaysha

Yes, but I think the OP won‘t feel any difference with perfect gear as long as the playstyle does not change from PvE to PvP. The OP will spend money and time to get recommended gear just to be as disappointed with the results as before.

Mitaka211

Zama666 wrote: »

Holy Crap!

A lot of good stuff. Really appreciate the help!

I think you are on the nose about my lack of buffing and being able to defend from burst damage. and inability to perform burst damage

Yes, I am a PVE person. I try to be a bit more tanky to outlast bosses and some running around.
Player skill: I like to run dungeons alone, and on non vet can make it thru a few. On Vet, I die, but last longer than PvP

Running a templar,
with heavy Hundings (5pc),
Storm Fist Monster 2 pc set with ,
running sword n board,
multi effect enchants on all gear,
and run Divines. (yes, I liked the TBS set)

But do enjoy healing others, but also myself so have a resto staff on the other bar

Spell and Physical resistance are about 20k
Spell and Physical pen...700? umm...that seems low...

Weapon Crit 30%
Weapon Damage 3261

Potions - I usually put on Bewitched Sugar skulls as a nice all rounder...

Go easy on me, I am such a PvP noob, gank fodder, punching bag....

Tanks!

Z

1. Your gear is not really optimal for pvp at all. It looks like something i did when i first started getting into pvp which is to be expected. I would recomend trowing it in the bank and look at other options. I assume you are playing stamina. Well stamplars have a hard time surviving to begin with, as we don't have easy access to most damage or defending buffs as some of the newer classes and our self healing is the worst and our mobility is poor. For pvp i follow a simple rule for my stamplar where i use a defencive oriented monster helm / 1 defensive set/1 damage set, in heavy armor.
- for monster sets i would reccomend ones like pirate skeleton , troll king, , blood spawn (troll king is not good in bgs however it only works if you intend to stack health recovery). The most optimal replacement i have found is just using gaze of sithis and combining it with 1 piece of monster set you want.
- for damage sets - hundings is fine, clever alchemist is briliant for tank oriented pvp builds, deadly strikes works really well for bruisers and tanks too and it is kinda designed for templars. Briarhearth is a really good option as it will almost always stay up with a stamplar (but more for medium armor builds)
- for defence i have used sets like fortified brass(it was a while ago not sure how it is now, i used to make in in medium believe it or not and i was a really hard to kill bruiser) , ethernal vigor (my current def set), you can use crimson twilight but i prefer ethernal.

2. With the latest changes to templars our house is somewhat good now so picking up Restoring focus and ritual are a must, you put them in your backbar. And your fights should try to revolve around your buffs , unless you are fighting a ranged class they have no choice but to play by your rules. Another ability you can use is actually Eclipse , it's really solid when you combine it with a mobility skill like race against time. For def ult you can use our ult heal , it's really solid and you help your teammates, or just use the reflective shield and 1h ult.

3. For damage, you need to pump up that weapon dmg + penetration. I always use a maul for pvp and try to get around 6k penetration after i debuff the enemy, i don't like having less than 4k wpn dmg if i am using heavy armor, mine i around 5k. Jabs is a must no other spamable is better for stamplars, grab power of the light so you can apply more pressure by bringing out all your damage before it pops. Use topling charge as a gap closer and stun, i use it on the front bar so i can get to dishing out damage faster. Grab an execute , both 2h and duel wield have them. For damage ult use eighter dawnbreaker or empowering sweep(don't listen to people saying it's useless i used to be one of them, with the latest changes to burning light you will melt people and not to mention you can pretty much spam it due to low cost). You can use poisen for your weapons i personally prefer just a weapon damage enchant.

4. Try to learn about potions and staying buffed at all times. As we stamplars don't have any damage mitigation we can't slack off in that department. We are good damage dealers but we need to be on edge when it comes to staying alive. The only damage mitigation we get from the class is when we spam jabs really and it's nothing special.

5. Don't expect to jump in a group of people and survive. Even in my tank build i need to pick my fights, if you are fighting new players you can 1vx them sure, but if they are semi competent , they will melt you. That is why you need a mobility skill like race against time , so you can get away if you need to. You can be really mobile even in heavy armor.

6. Speaking of buffs try to cover all the major debuffs and buffs for yourself. We don't just get them like other classes do, we need to use weapon/world/guild skills. That's why a monster set like pirate skeleton is really good for us, skills like pierce armor from the 1h and shield skills ect. Also experiment with potions and foods/drinks. You can compensate any weak points your build has with those three.

7. Stats.You need to learn what stat values are acceptable for pvp like crit resistance (around 2k) , spell/physical resistance(around 27k after buffs is more than enough), weapon damage (4-5k after buffs if you are a bruiser) , penetration(around 6k after debuffs is ok) , recoveries(for me anything less than 1400 stam recovery is trouble) and so on. You don't need to follow the meta, if you try to match the minimum for all your stats depending on your role you will be fine.

8. Just experience helps a lot to be honest. I remember how everyone wiped the floor with me in the start and i know it can be demotivating. From dueling you can learn when to dodge and block vs the other classes. The fight is basically you and your opponent fighting for the initiative to deal damage. With a single dodge roll you can negate the entire dmg dealing combo of someone. Knowing when to block and dodge is the best damage mitigation tool you need.

Zama666

My head is spinning.
Like I am playing a brand new game.

I would like to think I am a stamplar (dropped 64 into Stam)
I am an Imperial.

I do feel better being defensive - but that comes my lack of PvP experience.

I had NO idea how hard PvP'ers can hit...and how damn fast.

Agreed, sets are not going to do it all. Practice. Will go guild hunting.

I sold SO much Pariah recently!!!


@fred4 @Mitaka211 Thank you so much.

Spurius_Lucilius

Mitaka211 wrote: »

Zama666 wrote: »

Holy Crap!

A lot of good stuff. Really appreciate the help!

I think you are on the nose about my lack of buffing and being able to defend from burst damage. and inability to perform burst damage

Yes, I am a PVE person. I try to be a bit more tanky to outlast bosses and some running around.
Player skill: I like to run dungeons alone, and on non vet can make it thru a few. On Vet, I die, but last longer than PvP

Running a templar,
with heavy Hundings (5pc),
Storm Fist Monster 2 pc set with ,
running sword n board,
multi effect enchants on all gear,
and run Divines. (yes, I liked the TBS set)

But do enjoy healing others, but also myself so have a resto staff on the other bar

Spell and Physical resistance are about 20k
Spell and Physical pen...700? umm...that seems low...

Weapon Crit 30%
Weapon Damage 3261

Potions - I usually put on Bewitched Sugar skulls as a nice all rounder...

Go easy on me, I am such a PvP noob, gank fodder, punching bag....

Tanks!

Z

troll king, , blood spawn (troll king is not good in bgs however it only works if you intend to stack health recovery). The most optimal replacement i have found is just using gaze of sithis and combining it with 1 piece of monster set you want.

Troll King is bad because your health recovery stat is cut in half by Battle Spirit this patch, so don’t use that! Also eternal vigor is nerfed pretty hard, so consider another option like pariah. Gaze of Sithis is not a good mythic on templar, because you need to block. Only NB and sorc can somewhat get away with wearing this mythic. If you want a good defensive monster helm, use bloodspawn, malubeth or engine guardian.

Amerises

I personally find it difficult blocking well on a templar because Jabs being a channeled ability, so I like Gaze of Sithis, personally. Dodge roll works better for me. Stampede=>jabs and that's a good start to a fight, then from there, it depends on how your opponent reacts.

Zama666 wrote: »

My head is spinning.
Like I am playing a brand new game.

I would like to think I am a stamplar (dropped 64 into Stam)
I am an Imperial.

I do feel better being defensive - but that comes my lack of PvP experience.

I had NO idea how hard PvP'ers can hit...and how damn fast.

Agreed, sets are not going to do it all. Practice. Will go guild hunting.

I sold SO much Pariah recently!!!


@fred4 @Mitaka211 Thank you so much.

As others have said, defense is good, but like another said, it's a different kind of defense than PvE. You can't drop your focus buff and a couple of HoTs while your just got combo'd on, you'll be dead before you get your second ability off... Watch some videos, but what you could do, throw down your armor buff, give yourself a HoT, then stampede=>jabs and even if they start hitting you, you have a second or two fully buffed yet, so keep spamming. If they break free and dodge roll of of jabs, drop a HoT and focus again, roll dodge, and stampede=>jabs again.

Mitaka211

Just keep in mind that the majority of players are running burst builds now, so overwhelming their defences is so easy it's not even funny. Even with heavy armor you will be able to 1 combo people. When you first jump in, look at how your opponent is reacting to you as @Amerises said. Chances are they will panic and try to survive , you will know when a player is really flustered by the damage they are recieving. To me tank builds are still king in pvp, even with the burst meta you can sit right infront of someones face and they can't do anything about you, but you can do everything to them lol. I will be honest in the last couple of days i have seen 3 or 4 players who were as tanky as me and they were usually always the best performing in their team when it comes to k/d ratio. I strongly stand with using gaze of sithis as a stamplar, it looks off in theory but this item is crazy even in bgs.

fred4

@Zama666: OK, so you've inspired me to work on my own stamplar. It is not a class I often play, but I do know how to PvP and how to build for that. Before I tried this variation, the mag DKs - a strong duelling class - in Imperial City today were slaughtering me. This feels better:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=364990

This is a relatively unambitious build. I am a beginner at the class and I also lack skill points on the character, so I kept things simple. Perhaps this might suit you too. The only aim is to jab people and push the damage of that skill as much as possible. A "proper" build would do more than that. Historically stamplars use Power of the Light to burst people down. There is scope for improvement in the build.

Note I am wearing Pariah, but saying that doesn't fully describe a build like this. You have to pick a build philosophy and tailor the build alround it. This is especially true when it comes to resistances. Due to penetration, some of your resistance will be mitigated by your opponent. Due to combat engine math, the remaining resistance feels better and better the more you stack. In other words, if you're wearing Pariah you better build into resistances as a whole. This is what I have done by going for Protective jewelry, by getting more resistances from red CPs, by using a Defending back bar trait, a Reinforced Cuirass and by cutting my magicka requirements to the bare minimum, so I can use a Physical Resistance / Health / Stamina potion. I have also gone for both single target and AOE mitigation in the blue trees ... not resistances but it plays into the tanky theme. Covering both those options helps against hard hitting single target attacks, such as Dizzying Swing, but also against Leaps, Subterranean Assaults, Dawnbreakers, Vateshran 2H and so on.

The UESP summary is configured to show the character under optimal conditions in CP, standing on her rune with Pariah at 50%. Even on the front bar she has 35K Spell Resistance and 38K Physical Resistance. On the back bar she has more. At the same time I was able to push the Jabs tooltip to 4.5K with Continuous Attack and we have 16K penetration and decent sustain.

Playstyle: While you're running around, keep up Race Against Time, Rally and Restoring Focus. Once a target is sighted, Vigor -> Invasion -> Pierce Armor -> bar swap and Jab, Jab, Jab. Against bad / mediocre players that may be enough. Against said mag DKs I found it important to cleanse and stay in my Rune and Ritual. You need the ongoing healing from that. I didn't kill them, because I or they got zerged first, but I could hold my own.

Note that I deliberately wanted my gap closer on the back bar and into the all-important Pierce Armor skill. By stunning people I make sure that Pierce Armor lands. Otherwise what frequently happens to me is that I cast Pierce Armor, it fails because opponents are too fast, but I have already bar swapped and gone into Jabs. Running skills in the above order helps you manage your bar swaps better.

There are some things that are down to personal preference and subject to change. I am a Redguard, because that's what my character is. Other races may be better. I use Wild Hunt because I like speed and I'm never happy without it on any build. If you find yourself in a duel with a mag DK of all things, then that's redundant, but in Cyrodiil you need to run and keep up with the battle lines. I use Race Against Time for the same reason. I also really like the combination of Race Against Time and Restoring Focus as it gives you Major Expedition and you can sprint without running down your stamina. Compare that to wielding a bow where you typically dodge roll for the Major Expedition. You lose stamina sprinting with a bow. You don't with this build.

Repentance is double-barred because I am out of skill points and I wanted the passive sustain buff from that skill. Like I said, there is scope for long term improvement of the build.

I'm using Invasion instead of Toppling Charge since another player recommended it as being more reliable and because it costs stamina. With no investment into mag regen, it's better to reserve the magicka for Extended Ritual and Race Against Time. The Extended Ritual cleanse is situational, but when you need it - notably against magsorcs and DKs - you really do need it.

Waffennacht

Stuhn's is great for any class with access to reliable off balance; such as a Templar

Zama666

LightYagami wrote: »

Zama666 wrote: »

Holy Crap!

A lot of good stuff. Really appreciate the help!

I think you are on the nose about my lack of buffing and being able to defend from burst damage. and inability to perform burst damage

Yes, I am a PVE person. I try to be a bit more tanky to outlast bosses and some running around.
Player skill: I like to run dungeons alone, and on non vet can make it thru a few. On Vet, I die, but last longer than PvP

Running a templar,
with heavy Hundings (5pc),
Storm Fist Monster 2 pc set with ,
running sword n board,
multi effect enchants on all gear,
and run Divines. (yes, I liked the TBS set)

But do enjoy healing others, but also myself so have a resto staff on the other bar

Spell and Physical resistance are about 20k
Spell and Physical pen...700? umm...that seems low...

Weapon Crit 30%
Weapon Damage 3261

Potions - I usually put on Bewitched Sugar skulls as a nice all rounder...

Go easy on me, I am such a PvP noob, gank fodder, punching bag....

Tanks!

Z

A few questions for people to better understand your situation:

What's your CP?
What about your health, stam, magicka? (After food buff)
Which sets are you wearing in addition to the monster set?
What mundus stone do you use?
Do you block or roll dodge frequently?

CP 1087
Bewitched Sugar Skull Buffed: M:21K H:32k S:35K
Monster Set - StormFist
5pc Hundings Heavy (too bad Twice Born Star does not work in PvP land)
Mundus: Tower
*and here is an issue* block - rarely - so messed up by PvP I do occasionally. PVE you have so much warning. Dodge roll, not nearly enough.*

Tanks!

chuckythexii

Zama666 wrote: »

Holy Crap!

A lot of good stuff. Really appreciate the help!

I think you are on the nose about my lack of buffing and being able to defend from burst damage. and inability to perform burst damage

Yes, I am a PVE person. I try to be a bit more tanky to outlast bosses and some running around.
Player skill: I like to run dungeons alone, and on non vet can make it thru a few. On Vet, I die, but last longer than PvP

Running a templar,
with heavy Hundings (5pc),
Storm Fist Monster 2 pc set with ,
running sword n board,
multi effect enchants on all gear,
and run Divines. (yes, I liked the TBS set)

But do enjoy healing others, but also myself so have a resto staff on the other bar

Spell and Physical resistance are about 20k
Spell and Physical pen...700? umm...that seems low...

Weapon Crit 30%
Weapon Damage 3261

Potions - I usually put on Bewitched Sugar skulls as a nice all rounder...

Go easy on me, I am such a PvP noob, gank fodder, punching bag....

Tanks!

Z

My two cents

First off build Tank before Gank especially when starting off, you need experience actually playing PvP in order to learn and you need to survive to get that experience. This advice works in basically all PvP games. A good starter set for this is Fortified Brass which is easy to craft since it only requires four traits. Use that while collecting Pariah which is the best defense set.

Resistances get more effective the higher they are, 20k is not enough and really low for a sword and board heavy armor wearer. My Archer with F brass medium armor has 20k unbuffed, and it relies on not being hit in the first place. This is also why penetration is so important, use the puncture morph that gives major and minor breach it reduces armor by 9k in one hit for 15 secs, that is equivalent to increasing your damage by 20% with how the math works out depending on target armor.

Armor should be crit protection or dodge roll or block. I use dodge roll because my SB tank is also my vet dungeon tank and it works well for both. Crit protection will generally always be effective so easier to get benefit but as you learn to roll dodge or block at appropriate times they will be better I think. I'm still working on it myself tbh.

Healing, my S/B tank is also my Vet dungeon tank so I use regen. Its really inefficient in BG due to regen nerf which is where I do most PvP with that one but it still does the trick as long as I manage to not get isolated. There is a good group heal from Assault skills that works well and blood fountain from Undaunted is good when fighting for a position like a cap point, plus it helps your whole team not just you. As a templar you also have access to decent healing even if it is magicka. Even if you are a stamplar you want to slot a couple of magicka abilities anyway otherwise you are wasting that entire pool. It also gives much better return on investment for tri glyphs, foods, and pots. I don't use staves for any reason because I think waving a stick around in combat is silly so I'd ditch the staff entirely, but someone that actually has experience with them is probably going to give you better advice. Right now due to regen nerf healing is about using mag/stam regen which weren't nerfed and converting that into health/shield via skills.

As for damage like I said I'd get rid of the resto staff back bar and make it a damage bar, probably with Two handed. As a tank you want to have your primary bar be sustainment and then switch to back bar for damage when you see an opening presents itself. I think most other players do front bar damage and back bar healing/buffs, this won't work well for someone just starting by the time your situational awareness tells you to switch to healing its probably too late. if using sword and board look up bash canceling on Youtube its hard on stam but gives you a 25% increase in burst dps for a few secs which can really help finish off someone on the brink. Dots are also an easy way to maintain pressure while you focus on sustain.

Templar tanks can also do hybrid builds more easily by stacking attributes into health and using tri food/pots/glyphs to get best all round performance. Then use Heavy armor which can be effective for mag and stam. This allows you to use one resource pool then switch to the other when it runs low. You won't get the best performance from either but overall you will be better. This build favors tanking which is based on living long enough to get the most out of your regen. The longer the fight the more important regen is than maxes.

Zama666

chuckythexii wrote: »

Zama666 wrote: »

Holy Crap!

A lot of good stuff. Really appreciate the help!

I think you are on the nose about my lack of buffing and being able to defend from burst damage. and inability to perform burst damage

Yes, I am a PVE person. I try to be a bit more tanky to outlast bosses and some running around.
Player skill: I like to run dungeons alone, and on non vet can make it thru a few. On Vet, I die, but last longer than PvP

Running a templar,
with heavy Hundings (5pc),
Storm Fist Monster 2 pc set with ,
running sword n board,
multi effect enchants on all gear,
and run Divines. (yes, I liked the TBS set)

But do enjoy healing others, but also myself so have a resto staff on the other bar

Spell and Physical resistance are about 20k
Spell and Physical pen...700? umm...that seems low...

Weapon Crit 30%
Weapon Damage 3261

Potions - I usually put on Bewitched Sugar skulls as a nice all rounder...

Go easy on me, I am such a PvP noob, gank fodder, punching bag....

Tanks!

Z

My two cents

First off build Tank before Gank especially when starting off, you need experience actually playing PvP in order to learn and you need to survive to get that experience. This advice works in basically all PvP games. A good starter set for this is Fortified Brass which is easy to craft since it only requires four traits. Use that while collecting Pariah which is the best defense set.

Resistances get more effective the higher they are, 20k is not enough and really low for a sword and board heavy armor wearer. My Archer with F brass medium armor has 20k unbuffed, and it relies on not being hit in the first place. This is also why penetration is so important, use the puncture morph that gives major and minor breach it reduces armor by 9k in one hit for 15 secs, that is equivalent to increasing your damage by 20% with how the math works out depending on target armor.

Armor should be crit protection or dodge roll or block. I use dodge roll because my SB tank is also my vet dungeon tank and it works well for both. Crit protection will generally always be effective so easier to get benefit but as you learn to roll dodge or block at appropriate times they will be better I think. I'm still working on it myself tbh.

Healing, my S/B tank is also my Vet dungeon tank so I use regen. Its really inefficient in BG due to regen nerf which is where I do most PvP with that one but it still does the trick as long as I manage to not get isolated. There is a good group heal from Assault skills that works well and blood fountain from Undaunted is good when fighting for a position like a cap point, plus it helps your whole team not just you. As a templar you also have access to decent healing even if it is magicka. Even if you are a stamplar you want to slot a couple of magicka abilities anyway otherwise you are wasting that entire pool. It also gives much better return on investment for tri glyphs, foods, and pots. I don't use staves for any reason because I think waving a stick around in combat is silly so I'd ditch the staff entirely, but someone that actually has experience with them is probably going to give you better advice. Right now due to regen nerf healing is about using mag/stam regen which weren't nerfed and converting that into health/shield via skills.

As for damage like I said I'd get rid of the resto staff back bar and make it a damage bar, probably with Two handed. As a tank you want to have your primary bar be sustainment and then switch to back bar for damage when you see an opening presents itself. I think most other players do front bar damage and back bar healing/buffs, this won't work well for someone just starting by the time your situational awareness tells you to switch to healing its probably too late. if using sword and board look up bash canceling on Youtube its hard on stam but gives you a 25% increase in burst dps for a few secs which can really help finish off someone on the brink. Dots are also an easy way to maintain pressure while you focus on sustain.

Templar tanks can also do hybrid builds more easily by stacking attributes into health and using tri food/pots/glyphs to get best all round performance. Then use Heavy armor which can be effective for mag and stam. This allows you to use one resource pool then switch to the other when it runs low. You won't get the best performance from either but overall you will be better. This build favors tanking which is based on living long enough to get the most out of your regen. The longer the fight the more important regen is than maxes.

Tanks!

I am trying to acquire Pariah. FB looks like a easier alternative to get quickly.

What trait and glyphs do you recommend for that armor/

I am guessing for weapons you want he Sharpened trait (not sure how this works on sword n board both need the trait)

Dodge Rolling - definitely a fail for me. PVE you are stand still and take it for some bosses or run around in circles, plus be fore they heavy attack, plenty of warning....

I do try to use puncture a lot, then jabs, but the opponent health bar seems to never move - guess that means my attacks are doing nothing due to lack of pen? That is IF I last that long.

Getting snagged (stunned) is also a huge fail for me.

Puncture then switching to 2H sounds good - get that cleave n shield?

Gratitude for chiming in!

chuckythexii

Zama666 wrote: »

chuckythexii wrote: »

Zama666 wrote: »

Holy Crap!

A lot of good stuff. Really appreciate the help!

I think you are on the nose about my lack of buffing and being able to defend from burst damage. and inability to perform burst damage

Yes, I am a PVE person. I try to be a bit more tanky to outlast bosses and some running around.
Player skill: I like to run dungeons alone, and on non vet can make it thru a few. On Vet, I die, but last longer than PvP

Running a templar,
with heavy Hundings (5pc),
Storm Fist Monster 2 pc set with ,
running sword n board,
multi effect enchants on all gear,
and run Divines. (yes, I liked the TBS set)

But do enjoy healing others, but also myself so have a resto staff on the other bar

Spell and Physical resistance are about 20k
Spell and Physical pen...700? umm...that seems low...

Weapon Crit 30%
Weapon Damage 3261

Potions - I usually put on Bewitched Sugar skulls as a nice all rounder...

Go easy on me, I am such a PvP noob, gank fodder, punching bag....

Tanks!

Z

My two cents

First off build Tank before Gank especially when starting off, you need experience actually playing PvP in order to learn and you need to survive to get that experience. This advice works in basically all PvP games. A good starter set for this is Fortified Brass which is easy to craft since it only requires four traits. Use that while collecting Pariah which is the best defense set.

Resistances get more effective the higher they are, 20k is not enough and really low for a sword and board heavy armor wearer. My Archer with F brass medium armor has 20k unbuffed, and it relies on not being hit in the first place. This is also why penetration is so important, use the puncture morph that gives major and minor breach it reduces armor by 9k in one hit for 15 secs, that is equivalent to increasing your damage by 20% with how the math works out depending on target armor.

Armor should be crit protection or dodge roll or block. I use dodge roll because my SB tank is also my vet dungeon tank and it works well for both. Crit protection will generally always be effective so easier to get benefit but as you learn to roll dodge or block at appropriate times they will be better I think. I'm still working on it myself tbh.

Healing, my S/B tank is also my Vet dungeon tank so I use regen. Its really inefficient in BG due to regen nerf which is where I do most PvP with that one but it still does the trick as long as I manage to not get isolated. There is a good group heal from Assault skills that works well and blood fountain from Undaunted is good when fighting for a position like a cap point, plus it helps your whole team not just you. As a templar you also have access to decent healing even if it is magicka. Even if you are a stamplar you want to slot a couple of magicka abilities anyway otherwise you are wasting that entire pool. It also gives much better return on investment for tri glyphs, foods, and pots. I don't use staves for any reason because I think waving a stick around in combat is silly so I'd ditch the staff entirely, but someone that actually has experience with them is probably going to give you better advice. Right now due to regen nerf healing is about using mag/stam regen which weren't nerfed and converting that into health/shield via skills.

As for damage like I said I'd get rid of the resto staff back bar and make it a damage bar, probably with Two handed. As a tank you want to have your primary bar be sustainment and then switch to back bar for damage when you see an opening presents itself. I think most other players do front bar damage and back bar healing/buffs, this won't work well for someone just starting by the time your situational awareness tells you to switch to healing its probably too late. if using sword and board look up bash canceling on Youtube its hard on stam but gives you a 25% increase in burst dps for a few secs which can really help finish off someone on the brink. Dots are also an easy way to maintain pressure while you focus on sustain.

Templar tanks can also do hybrid builds more easily by stacking attributes into health and using tri food/pots/glyphs to get best all round performance. Then use Heavy armor which can be effective for mag and stam. This allows you to use one resource pool then switch to the other when it runs low. You won't get the best performance from either but overall you will be better. This build favors tanking which is based on living long enough to get the most out of your regen. The longer the fight the more important regen is than maxes.

Tanks!

I am trying to acquire Pariah. FB looks like a easier alternative to get quickly.

What trait and glyphs do you recommend for that armor/

I am guessing for weapons you want he Sharpened trait (not sure how this works on sword n board both need the trait)

Dodge Rolling - definitely a fail for me. PVE you are stand still and take it for some bosses or run around in circles, plus be fore they heavy attack, plenty of warning....

I do try to use puncture a lot, then jabs, but the opponent health bar seems to never move - guess that means my attacks are doing nothing due to lack of pen? That is IF I last that long.

Getting snagged (stunned) is also a huge fail for me.

Puncture then switching to 2H sounds good - get that cleave n shield?

Gratitude for chiming in!

For armor traits either Dodge or block depending on what you are gonna do more, impen if you only want the armor for PvP. For glyphs don't worry too much just use resource glyphs of whatever you can change them as you go so just experiment. Though I would say only use blue/purple as you can afford. Once you get everything how you want it and if you like the build gold tri-stat it. Don't waste a tri stat on anything less than gold. As for improving gear gold the weapon first, then chest/head/greaves which give most bonus. Don't get too wrapped up in improving the gear it does not make that much difference for cost. I run mostly purple because I'm still doing a lot of theory crafting, If you gold anything the weapon is the most valuable.

weapon trait you want infused for a crushing enchant, this will give you personally slightly less penetration but it will give your team-mates more. Gold weapons make a very large difference for damage output. Also shield does not need nor can it have the same trait or enchant as a weapon.

As for developing skills, I would suggest doing solo world bosses. They wont teach you the situational awareness you need in PvP but it will teach how to manage your resources and reaction speed, plus help you develop your bars/rotation under pressure. Once you've got that down, Battlegrounds. Battlegrounds are great for learning since you will die a lot but you can get right back in the fight and learn from your mistakes. Cyrodil is longer and more drawn out you die then you have to travel several minutes to get back in the fight.