If you could change one thing about dk healer?

Starlight_Whisper

What would it be and why?

the1andonlyskwex

It's hard to pick just one.

I suppose if I had to choose, I would start by making Fragmented Shield scale off max magicka and spell damage instead of health. I would start there because a non-ultimate, non-synergy, group shield is a mechanic that's unique to DK and I think it would be fun if it were actually useful (and it would synergize well with the Bastion and Shield Master CP stars).

On the other hand, the changes that would probably make the biggest difference in overall effectiveness would be:
1) Adjusting passives or ability costs to improve sustain
2) Increasing the radius of Cinder Storm, and replacing its snare with a minor buff (preferably courage, but anything that isn't trivially acquired elsewhere would be fine)

BohnT2

Make DK healers be non existent because trying to let all classes fulfill the three archetypes healing damage and tanking has ruined this game's balance, especially when looking at Warden and Necro but also all older classes.

Starlight_Whisper

BohnT2 wrote: »

Make DK healers be non existent because trying to let all classes fulfill the three archetypes healing damage and tanking has ruined this game's balance, especially when looking at Warden and Necro but also all older classes.

People enjoy play as you want. It's what makes this game on the top list.

BXR_Lonestar

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

It's hard to pick just one.

I suppose if I had to choose, I would start by making Fragmented Shield scale off max magicka and spell damage instead of health. I would start there because a non-ultimate, non-synergy, group shield is a mechanic that's unique to DK and I think it would be fun if it were actually useful (and it would synergize well with the Bastion and Shield Master CP stars).

On the other hand, the changes that would probably make the biggest difference in overall effectiveness would be:
1) Adjusting passives or ability costs to improve sustain
2) Increasing the radius of Cinder Storm, and replacing its snare with a minor buff (preferably courage, but anything that isn't trivially acquired elsewhere would be fine)

I main a healer and I have both a Warden and Templar healer now. The concept of a DK healer has always been intriguing, but I always see comments that they just don't really work. I think one thing that would make them completely viable is if they buffed the crap out of the group shields they can provide. Combine that with a set like combat physician, and the playstyle of the DK healer could be reducing incoming damage via shields rather than trying to outheal incoming damage. Could work, they would definitely need to buff the group shielding abilities first.

Stx

I agree with the other posters who have mentioned fragmented shield. One of the morphs needs to scale off something other than health. Providing group damage shields can be the DK thing. And even if it ends up not being good enough to make dk healer meta, it would still be a fun playstyle imo, and useful.

Vevvev

As a magDK healer it'd be nice if Cinder Storm had a kind of yellow glow. Do you know how many people will step out of it thinking it's a Boss's AoE damage mechanic? It drives me up the wall....

Thankfully a magDK healer has some things going for them like Cauterize giving more critical heals, but better information to the team at what is and isn't a healing ability would be nice and some kind of additional buff to Obsidian Shard to make it worth using over something like Combat Prayer.

YandereGirlfriend

I like the angle of allowing DK Healers to provide shields to their groups.

However, for this to really work in practice then the target cap of 6 players needs to be abolished for BOTH Fragmented Shield as well as Magma Armor.

Currently, those skills "work" only in dungeon content otherwise you are leaving out the other half of your trial group, which completely defeats the point of providing group shields in the first place.

And, as has been said, Fragmented Shield has to scale off of something other than Max HP.

ESO_Nightingale

I'm currently leveling one i really like the concept personally. I think as mentioned before changing the scaling of fragmented to magicka would be cool. But also maybe if obsidian shard was able to do some type of debuff or group buff not obtainable anywhere else?

the1andonlyskwex

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I'm currently leveling one i really like the concept personally. I think as mentioned before changing the scaling of fragmented to magicka would be cool. But also maybe if obsidian shard was able to do some type of debuff or group buff not obtainable anywhere else?

I'm not really opposed to any DK healer improvements, but I also don't really understand why people want to buff Obsidian Shard (or turn it into a Combat Prayer replacement). It's a class burst heal and is already pretty much in line with Malevolent Offering, Twilight Matriarch, Rushed Ceremony, Nature's Grasp, and Render Flesh, which are the other classes' skills that fulfil the same purpose.

exeeter702

The game would need to allow stronger instances of fragmented shield to override weaker ones. This alongside changed its scaling would shift frag shield utility to the dk healer from the dk tank, since drag sheild is the unique source of affording 100 percent major mending uptime to the healer. This would be a start in the right direction.

Obsidian shards unqiue strength goes largely unused. It is technically, the longest range burst heal in the game assuming you have the target required to leap from it so to speak. Not really a meaningful consideration but a cool perk I suppose. Frankly it's just too slow. But to cleanly list what I think they need....

Obsidian shards heal component to trigger immediately, and a secondary lesser heal to trigger when projectile hits enemy target.

Cinder to have an attached synergy that provides a minor damage shield, roughly above fragmented since it would be on a synergy CD. This would reinforce a damage prevention style of healing, along side fragmented, and cauterize doing passive triage along side cinder, would be a nice proactive buffer.

Fragmented needs to scale (mildly) off of magicka, or zos needs to allow stronger versions of it to not be overwritten by weaker ones. Currently if a dk healer attempts to maintain major mending, he will likely be replacing a dk tanks frag shield regularly. This is not a massive issue all things considered, but I honestly feel that moving frag shield tonthe dk healer entirely, from the dk tank, wouldnt be too damaging.

Give dks a way to provide minor resistance buff to group members.

Starlight_Whisper

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I like the angle of allowing DK Healers to provide shields to their groups.

However, for this to really work in practice then the target cap of 6 players needs to be abolished for BOTH Fragmented Shield as well as Magma Armor.

Currently, those skills "work" only in dungeon content otherwise you are leaving out the other half of your trial group, which completely defeats the point of providing group shields in the first place.

And, as has been said, Fragmented Shield has to scale off of something other than Max HP.

I personally agree to that along with issue of scaling and overriding other shields

ESO_Nightingale

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I'm currently leveling one i really like the concept personally. I think as mentioned before changing the scaling of fragmented to magicka would be cool. But also maybe if obsidian shard was able to do some type of debuff or group buff not obtainable anywhere else?

I'm not really opposed to any DK healer improvements, but I also don't really understand why people want to buff Obsidian Shard (or turn it into a Combat Prayer replacement). It's a class burst heal and is already pretty much in line with Malevolent Offering, Twilight Matriarch, Rushed Ceremony, Nature's Grasp, and Render Flesh, which are the other classes' skills that fulfil the same purpose.

Because if you give a debuff like that to any other dk healer skill, tank dk will just eat it up again. They already want stone giant for stagger.

Froil

Maybe give Cinder Storm Minor/Major Evasion or something when allies are in it?
Make Cauterize go off every second or maybe turn it in to a pulse AoE?
I do agree with what's been said about Fragmented Shield's scaling and player cap.

DK healers are such strange creatures. They can work really well, but in group PvE (mostly trials), they're less useful if there's a DK tank as, as I've said before in another thread like this, DK tanks and healers tend to have the same buff/debuff skills and each version of Obsidian Shield overrides the other.

Starlight_Whisper

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I'm currently leveling one i really like the concept personally. I think as mentioned before changing the scaling of fragmented to magicka would be cool. But also maybe if obsidian shard was able to do some type of debuff or group buff not obtainable anywhere else?

I'm not really opposed to any DK healer improvements, but I also don't really understand why people want to buff Obsidian Shard (or turn it into a Combat Prayer replacement). It's a class burst heal and is already pretty much in line with Malevolent Offering, Twilight Matriarch, Rushed Ceremony, Nature's Grasp, and Render Flesh, which are the other classes' skills that fulfil the same purpose.

Because if you give a debuff like that to any other dk healer skill, tank dk will just eat it up again. They already want stone giant for stagger.

I think biggest thing to make sure tank or dps don't get it is to make it costly and unsustainable so only healer with regain can use it frequently

ESO_Nightingale

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I'm currently leveling one i really like the concept personally. I think as mentioned before changing the scaling of fragmented to magicka would be cool. But also maybe if obsidian shard was able to do some type of debuff or group buff not obtainable anywhere else?

I'm not really opposed to any DK healer improvements, but I also don't really understand why people want to buff Obsidian Shard (or turn it into a Combat Prayer replacement). It's a class burst heal and is already pretty much in line with Malevolent Offering, Twilight Matriarch, Rushed Ceremony, Nature's Grasp, and Render Flesh, which are the other classes' skills that fulfil the same purpose.

Because if you give a debuff like that to any other dk healer skill, tank dk will just eat it up again. They already want stone giant for stagger.

I think biggest thing to make sure tank or dps don't get it is to make it costly and unsustainable so only healer with regain can use it frequently

I think that was the goal with stone giant. Can't say it worked out well though.

Sluggy

Used to play a DK healer in PvP. They are quite strong in that regard. Especially as a hybrid. Vigor and healing springs combined was VERY strong. But they still had and continue to have issues.

But I'd say the two biggest problems are:

1) that their class AoE heal is is absolutely terrible. It's too expensive, too small, and the heal-to-cost ratio isn't really a better option over Healing Springs. Especially when you consider the option of using it with a Master Resto Staff. To make matters worse it doesn't even look like a heal to your allies. It looks like a death trap.

2) Major mending on demand was nice when it was 25%. At 16% it's not quite as impressive and due to the constant need to heavy attack I basically have it up through the resto staff passive anyway.

Of those two issues, I'd prefer the class AoE heal be stronger somehow. It has a very long-lasting effect yes, but that isn't so useful in a PvP setting where you need to always be moving. It either needs a much cheaper cost, a MUCH bigger AoE, or a reasonably stronger heal.

Zodiarkslayer

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

What would it be and why?

I would make it a Warden!

zvavi

One thing is not enough. Here are the 5 things I would change:
1. Ash cloud - add a burst heal on cast to better mirror the damage morph.
2. Cauterize - add an additional target to better mirror the damage morph.
3. Add a sustain passive somehow (since the burning sustain passive only works for mag dds, and not for heals)
4. Longer major mending from frag shield, to offset the reduction to 16% from 25% it got in the past.
5. Add a non ult class synergy that works on bosses.

Sluggy

I hopped into Cyrodiil earlier with my Hybrid healer DK. It's just as strong if not stronger than it ever was before. Mostly due to the extra damage and resource stats we get at base now. I definitely want to double down on my two points above. The class AoE is positively useless and I found myself very very rarely casting Frag Shield. In fact I only cast it so that I could get Minor Brutality up.

I'll say that while this build is amazingly useful in Cyrodiil in group fights, I wouldn't want to take it into a 1vX or even a duel in most cases. And in PvE I I just can't see this setup being useful at all (healers don't need burst AoE damage like Tornado or Noxious Breath after all).

I think I'll agree with zvavi that a much longer major mending would be useful. At least 9 seconds would make it worthwhile to me. And sustain through heavy attacks is pretty decent but that's very situational. I'm not sure about Ash Cloud though. A burst heal would be okay but I think I'd rather just have a huge blanket AoE. Something like 15 or 20 meters in radius. The pathetic radius is has currently makes it useless for all types of content.

So to sum it up I'll stick with my original 'one thing'. Make that Ash Cloud actually useful somehow!

Dragonredux

Vevvev wrote: »

As a magDK healer it'd be nice if Cinder Storm had a kind of yellow glow. Do you know how many people will step out of it thinking it's a Boss's AoE damage mechanic? It drives me up the wall....

This is why I stopped playing a DK healer. Too many times I had step out of Cinder Storm because they think it'll hurt them. Can't blame them either, doesn't look inviting because fire bad.

Problem is, I don't know how to fix it visually really to suit DK. I don't know, make it gaseous or smoky to look like you're on that good skooma.

Sluggy

Dragonredux wrote: »

Problem is, I don't know how to fix it visually really to suit DK. I don't know, make it gaseous or smoky to look like you're on that good skooma.

Well, for a starter the entire concept of an Ash Cloud somehow healing people is just bizarre. I'd say just drop that concept entirely.

And yeah, I'll agree with the idea that people run away from it. Even when I was in groups I played with many times and in voice coms and demonstrated what it looks like people would still avoid it in the heat of battle.

the1andonlyskwex

Dragonredux wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

As a magDK healer it'd be nice if Cinder Storm had a kind of yellow glow. Do you know how many people will step out of it thinking it's a Boss's AoE damage mechanic? It drives me up the wall....

This is why I stopped playing a DK healer. Too many times I had step out of Cinder Storm because they think it'll hurt them. Can't blame them either, doesn't like inviting because fire bad.

Problem is, I don't know how to fix it visually really to suit DK. I don't know, make it gaseous or smoky to look like you're on that good skooma.

Animation-wise, I think simply swapping the cinder Storm and eruption animations would be a big step in the right direction.

Functionally, I would increase the radius to 8-10m and replace the snare with a buff of some sort (because a 70% snare with a large radius is clearly unbalanced, and it also doesn't really fit a healing spell anyway).

Starlight_Whisper

Dragonredux wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

As a magDK healer it'd be nice if Cinder Storm had a kind of yellow glow. Do you know how many people will step out of it thinking it's a Boss's AoE damage mechanic? It drives me up the wall....

This is why I stopped playing a DK healer. Too many times I had step out of Cinder Storm because they think it'll hurt them. Can't blame them either, doesn't like inviting because fire bad.

Problem is, I don't know how to fix it visually really to suit DK. I don't know, make it gaseous or smoky to look like you're on that good skooma.

How about Mini volcano?

Hotdog_23

Just to add to the excellent ideas already posted.

Igneous Shield should only cover the individual (Tank roll) only and be something like 20-25% of health. Fragmented Shield should scale with highest offensive stat and be in the 5-6k range and cover up to 12 players. Anything higher and it would once again be to strong like it was back in the days when VMOL was very hard and I believe DK shields giving everyone 10-12k shield every few seconds was how it was finally cleared the first time.

Also like the idea of both morphs of Obsidian Shield, Igneous and fragmented both purging one negative effect per cast.

Obsidian Shard get rid of the target requirement so it can be used outside of combat. I like the idea of throwing a rock on the ground that brakes and the magma travels to the players to heal them.

Cinder Storm needs an 8-meter radius and some type of synergy to it. Example extra heal or 5% crit chance etc. Or give it a unique buff like1-2k armor resistance to go along with the “shielding” healer theme. Also needs a different visual look for the skill on the ground.


Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS, ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

Marchastre

The problem with a strong shield that can be casted without restrain, it's the shield can simply replace the needs for strong heals. You cast one skill, again and again, only to ignore the strat and the incoming damage.
It did happened on WoW with the Discipline priest and that class was a textbook example of all the issues shielding can bring in the game because, remember:
- A shield cannot be healed and reinforced, only replaced (often by the same caster)
- A shield can totally block some mechanics whereas the presence of Oblivion damage makes it worthless

With that in mind, we can think about other way to bring a powerful shield in the game with a gimmick that only exist for the DK:
- Either the shield isn't active directly: During a short period, each heal (heal and not overheal) received by the target is copied and the value stored into a buff. And once the period is done, a shield is applied to the target with a basic value + the copied ammount (That way, the shield cannot be spammed, cannot be used as a "Oh *** button" but instead a build-up mechanic that smooth the damages taken by the team and it does involve others healers in the process)
- Or the shield has a strong base value but doesn't block all the damage but partially. As if the shield can only reduce the damage taken by 30% (more or less (mostly less)) over a short period and with a limit cap. (That version is better for the tanks and pvp in general but it has the inconvenient of being potentielly extremely strong as it can add up to any DR present in the game)


Outside of fragmented shield... We can have the passive Helping hands that may purge one effect when it heals a target with a cooldown of 8 sec at most.
And Cinder Storm could bring one buff we almost never see in the game: Minor evasion. It would fit with the current theme and bring the idea of the cinder storm protecting from the incoming damage.


Just throwing my ideas though.