Is a Non-Crit pet sorc build viable?

BXR_Lonestar

I was looking to update my petsorc after realizing that I'm just short of hitting the 6500 spell damage requirement to make my Maw of the Infernal hit like he used to pre-patch, and that is including when boss is in execute phase (3x blood thirsty jewelry). With that in mind, I was considering running a non-crit build with Band of Malacath, with something like Infalliable Ether in order to get some flat % damage increase. Infal seems like a good choice because it also increases heavy attack damage, and as a pet sorc, you do a lot of heavy attacks.

Along those same lines, I was thinking of trying Overload Occult again with a charged trait front bar. The focus of the build would mainly be to burn down trash mobs effortlessly.

I'm not sure what I should take for the other 5 piece set though. I could do another HA set like Undaunted Infiltrator or noble duelist, or if I should go with something that is just going to increase my raw spell power to buff up my base damage. I thought about the Ritualist set, but when I tried that set with my previous pet sorc build, I was less than impressed.

Any thoughts on if a build like this would work?

WrathOfInnos

In PVE, puttting on the Band of Malacath will reduce your damage output. 16% damage done simply isn’t worth giving up 50% crit damage. Additionally, some things that appear to be flat damage, are actually able to crit and would be weakened as well, including the bonus damage from HA sets (IA, vMA staff, UI, Noble).

Agree that Ritualist is a weak set. I’d highly recommend fitting at least one crit set into the build (Sorrow, Medusa, Acuity, or even the Harpooner’s Kilt if you don’t plan on taking many hits). The other set is ideally going to have a Minor Slayer 3pc. I like Siroria or Bahsei for this, but IA can be good if you plan to heavy attack a lot. Some players still use False Gods for the sustain, and there are situations where Master Architect is useful.

Basically if you combine a crit set with a slayer set you can’t go wrong.

Kel

Look, unless you're doing hard mode trial speed runs, everything is viable in this game.

Rotation and weaving goes farther to make a build viable in everything but the case above for 98% of this game.

Sluggy

Kel wrote: »

Look, unless you're doing hard mode trial speed runs, everything is viable in this game.

Rotation and weaving goes farther to make a build viable in everything but the case above for 98% of this game.

Just wanted to second this. 'Viable' and 'best possible option for a situation' are two completely different things.

BXR_Lonestar

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

In PVE, puttting on the Band of Malacath will reduce your damage output. 16% damage done simply isn’t worth giving up 50% crit damage. Additionally, some things that appear to be flat damage, are actually able to crit and would be weakened as well, including the bonus damage from HA sets (IA, vMA staff, UI, Noble).

Agree that Ritualist is a weak set. I’d highly recommend fitting at least one crit set into the build (Sorrow, Medusa, Acuity, or even the Harpooner’s Kilt if you don’t plan on taking many hits). The other set is ideally going to have a Minor Slayer 3pc. I like Siroria or Bahsei for this, but IA can be good if you plan to heavy attack a lot. Some players still use False Gods for the sustain, and there are situations where Master Architect is useful.

Basically if you combine a crit set with a slayer set you can’t go wrong.

So it sounds like the flat damage increase isn't worth the reduction in crit damage, even if you completely ignore crit stats and build around raw power? That is a shame, as it sucks to be pigeon holed into the same sets over and over again for DPS.

With that said, my petsorc is my farming character and me and my gf often 2 man content with our pet sorcs (especially now with companions), and I do HA a lot, so Infal is very appealing because it not only fits how the character plays, but it also helps boost the damage of my partner. Just not sure what else to try to pair with it to increase my DPS.

Currently running rattlecage weapons/jewelry and MS and Maw just to see if I could reach the 6500 threshhold for monster helps to perform as they did pre-patch, but I'm just short and won't reach it without a healer running SPC.

WrathOfInnos

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

In PVE, puttting on the Band of Malacath will reduce your damage output. 16% damage done simply isn’t worth giving up 50% crit damage. Additionally, some things that appear to be flat damage, are actually able to crit and would be weakened as well, including the bonus damage from HA sets (IA, vMA staff, UI, Noble).

Agree that Ritualist is a weak set. I’d highly recommend fitting at least one crit set into the build (Sorrow, Medusa, Acuity, or even the Harpooner’s Kilt if you don’t plan on taking many hits). The other set is ideally going to have a Minor Slayer 3pc. I like Siroria or Bahsei for this, but IA can be good if you plan to heavy attack a lot. Some players still use False Gods for the sustain, and there are situations where Master Architect is useful.

Basically if you combine a crit set with a slayer set you can’t go wrong.

So it sounds like the flat damage increase isn't worth the reduction in crit damage, even if you completely ignore crit stats and build around raw power? That is a shame, as it sucks to be pigeon holed into the same sets over and over again for DPS.

With that said, my petsorc is my farming character and me and my gf often 2 man content with our pet sorcs (especially now with companions), and I do HA a lot, so Infal is very appealing because it not only fits how the character plays, but it also helps boost the damage of my partner. Just not sure what else to try to pair with it to increase my DPS.

Currently running rattlecage weapons/jewelry and MS and Maw just to see if I could reach the 6500 threshhold for monster helps to perform as they did pre-patch, but I'm just short and won't reach it without a healer running SPC.

For solo and duo content you could slot SPC yourself. It just becomes redundant if you’re in a group with a healer using the same set or Olorime. I believe crit surge is enough to keep the buff active on yourself, and gives Major Sorcery so you won’t need Rattlecage. You’d have to get creative if you want to proc SPC on your GF though, I would not recommend the other morph of Surge or the Twilight Matriarch. Energy Orb would also be a significant damage loss over Mystic Orb. Might have to slot a Restoration Staff or use something like Ring of Preservation.

WrathOfInnos

Oh btw, stacking damage sets is definitely a thing this patch. Bahsei + Diamond’s Victory is an excellent combination to give % Damage increase and a good amount of Spell Damage. This build just typically has to use the Kilt + 1 Slimecraw with Thief and Precise to get a decent crit chance. Unfortunately that build doesn’t work at all with a Heavy Attack rotation, your resources will be too full to use Bahsei and Diamond’s Victory requires either dual wield or having Elemental Weapon + Light Attacks as your spammable.

Zodiarkslayer

On my petsorc, I use Undaunted Unweaver and Noble Duelist to push heavy attack damage to the max. Slimecraw and Grundwulf push me over 50% and the Shadow Mundus is topping everything off, with a serious damage boost.

I use only the Twilight Tormentor, though.
The sorcerers bar space problems remain, even on a HA build.

I use crystal weapon to proc UU and get the minor prophecy buff, with shield, inner light, bound armor and the Attro on the frontbar, plus wall, lightning, crit surge and boundless armor typically in the flexspot, I am easily able to solo anything in Overland and all normal dungs. Vetdungs are just not happening anymore. If I need healing at the beginning of a fight, I have Mirri active as a healer. She doesn't last on most tougher Bosses, though.

Hope the Info helps and encourages to emulate and adapt.

Septimus_Magna

Yes its possible to an extend, with Bahsei and Siroria and you'll have a low-crit but hard hiting pet sorc build for example.
Malacath is not for PVE but you can run something like Death Dealers Fete + 1pc monster instead of 2pc Maw.

As mundus the Thief is the best option, Apprentice will be a dps loss but probably the best alternative.
Most mag builds are at the pen cap so the Lover is not needed.

BXR_Lonestar

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

On my petsorc, I use Undaunted Unweaver and Noble Duelist to push heavy attack damage to the max. Slimecraw and Grundwulf push me over 50% and the Shadow Mundus is topping everything off, with a serious damage boost.

I use only the Twilight Tormentor, though.
The sorcerers bar space problems remain, even on a HA build.

I use crystal weapon to proc UU and get the minor prophecy buff, with shield, inner light, bound armor and the Attro on the frontbar, plus wall, lightning, crit surge and boundless armor typically in the flexspot, I am easily able to solo anything in Overland and all normal dungs. Vetdungs are just not happening anymore. If I need healing at the beginning of a fight, I have Mirri active as a healer. She doesn't last on most tougher Bosses, though.

Hope the Info helps and encourages to emulate and adapt.

The pet sorc skill bar space is why I wanted to try using Rattlecage, as it basically frees up an additional slot that I can use to run a number of skills, but I'm now wondering if it would be better to swap to medusa to free up the need to run the Psjic skill that increases crit damage, and rely on a potion for major sorcery instead. My damage isn't bad right now to be fair. I'm slaying Maelstrom Vet with this build, and where I'm struggling, its because I'm struggling to control my damage output (triggering mechanics too quickly) rather than having too little DPS. That said, I was just wondering if there was a way that I could up my game on my petsorc. But definitely sounds like it would have to be through a mix of adding Medusa, a damage set, and Whaler's Kilt with 1 piece monster set, or something along those lines.

They really do need some dedicated pet-buffing sets outside of Ritualist and Necropotence. Both of those sets aren't nearly as good as they would have been several patches ago before they changed the way pet damage scaled.

Zodiarkslayer

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I'm struggling to control my damage output (triggering mechanics too quickly) rather than having too little DPS.

That is a problem I'd like to have too.😂

But seriously, how are you healing?
Matriarch?
In Solo, crit surge is a must for the multi effect it offers while it only takes one slot. Healing and damage. Just like boundless armor: armor speed and damage in one ability.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

You need to start by defining "Viable". A non-crit PVE build will certainly NOT be optimal. For Non Vet 4 man and 99% of overland (other than soloing WBs), darn near anything is viable. Still not sure I have seen what your target content is for this.

Also, I would never suggest running Rattlecage when Crit surge is an option. Crit surge is one of the most useful skills a sorc has. Only reason i would drop crit surge is in Vet group content where you have a healer and plan to run potions. A 5 piece bonus for a skill slot is usually a bad tradeoff.

WrathOfInnos

Agreed that Medusa is a better set than Rattlecage. I wouldn’t call Medusa optimal in most scenarios this patch, but it’s more than viable, and a great way to save a bar slot while getting some Spell Crit. If you’re doing solo content like vMA then avoid the kilt, it can only build stacks if you have a tank holding aggro so you don’t take many hits. Thrassian Stranglers are actually good for vMA if you can survive the loss of health, since you’ll get every killing blow. If you want something more survivable then go with Pale Order, it gives massive healing when solo or in a small group. With any of these Mythics, Slimecraw 1pc is going to be your friend, giving 3.5% Spell Crit. And if you choose not to use a Mythic then Slimecraw 2pc is also useful.

Ippokrates

Non-crit build could be an option for pve but surely not for a class like Sorcerer which have a lot of bonuses from criticals (minor prophecy, crit surge).

I did it on my stamden and maaan, with Stuhn's and Malacath before last patch, this was murderous build for both pve & pvp. It was possible because in ESO dmg is set by three factors: dmg, pen & crit chance/dmg, so usually you need to balance all three to make reasonable dmg. BUT if you remove one piece from the equation and focus on two others, in some situations (like above mentioned stamden) you can get a really good results.

However, in case of Sorcerer, I don't think it will work, cause you are losing to much bonuses.

BXR_Lonestar

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I'm struggling to control my damage output (triggering mechanics too quickly) rather than having too little DPS.

That is a problem I'd like to have too.😂

But seriously, how are you healing?
Matriarch?
In Solo, crit surge is a must for the multi effect it offers while it only takes one slot. Healing and damage. Just like boundless armor: armor speed and damage in one ability.

Matriarch, hardened ward, and tri-pots. It helps that I've been through maelstrom before on this character, though back then, I was running Crafty Alfiqi, Necropotence, and Maw of Infernal. Was nice running around with 65k Magika and could burn everything down and cast heals/shields for days. Now, I have to be a little more careful, but I'm getting through.

BXR_Lonestar

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

You need to start by defining "Viable". A non-crit PVE build will certainly NOT be optimal. For Non Vet 4 man and 99% of overland (other than soloing WBs), darn near anything is viable. Still not sure I have seen what your target content is for this.

Also, I would never suggest running Rattlecage when Crit surge is an option. Crit surge is one of the most useful skills a sorc has. Only reason i would drop crit surge is in Vet group content where you have a healer and plan to run potions. A 5 piece bonus for a skill slot is usually a bad tradeoff.

Me and my gf do a lot of content 2 man, especially now with our companions. But since the changes to pet damage scaling to be more dependent on spell damage than max magika, we've been fiddling with our builds to get them back to where they were before when we could basically destroy content running Maw of Infernal/Necropotence/Crafty Alfiqi. We can still get the same stuff done, but especially now the nerf to proc set damage scaling, the builds simply haven't given us the same feel of raw power and survivability we had before.

I have what is maybe an irrational hatred for sets like siroria that require you to "turret" and maintain stacks, and I see that almost every petsorc build now is siroria/MS or MS/Medusa, or Siroria/Medusa and I'm just looking for other good options that will let me have high DPS (Doesn't need to be top tier, but respectable enough for vet content), and still maintain good survivability.

LashanW

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I have what is maybe an irrational hatred for sets like siroria that require you to "turret" and maintain stacks, and I see that almost every petsorc build now is siroria/MS or MS/Medusa, or Siroria/Medusa and I'm just looking for other good options that will let me have high DPS (Doesn't need to be top tier, but respectable enough for vet content), and still maintain good survivability.

@BXR_Lonestar
You don't need siroria. You can go false god + Mother's sorrow/Medusa. It's still very strong. Since they give pure stats upfront, no need to worry about positioning or maintaining stacks.

• pFG + Mother's Sorrow (dual wield front bar) + kilt = ~100k dps on raid dummy
• pFG + Medusa (staves) + 2 crit monster pieces = ~90k dps on raid dummy

Good enough for pretty much all vet content. But it's ofc based on crit.

mocap

you can always make magicka old-school build. Crafty + Necro + Inner light + Bound Aegis + blue food + mage mundus. Though it is only for heavy attack rotation.

BXR_Lonestar

mocap wrote: »

you can always make magicka old-school build. Crafty + Necro + Inner light + Bound Aegis + blue food + mage mundus. Though it is only for heavy attack rotation.

That is what I ran before, but it's been made substantially weaker by the reconfiguration of pet damage scaling based on a hybrid of spell damage and max magika. Not to mention that Maw of the Infernal was nerfed due to the fact that you now need 6500 spell damage to get pre-patch performance.

I think what I'm going to do is run Infalliable ether and Medusa with wild impulse back bar (will upgrade to Maelstrom Desto Staff if it ever drops ) and slimecraw. Depending on how my max stats are with Tri-food, I may even add in Thrassian Stranglers in content where it is viable to keep max stats up