Silly overnight inflation on Dreugh Wax

mrfrontman

Save your gold, seems to be a bunch of silly players thinking they can inflate the market by buying all the wax they can overnight and reselling at over 20k+ a pop.

don't waste a single coin on them, you've been warned

PeacefulAnarchy

I don't know which server you're on, but Dreugh Wax has been selling at 20K for a month on PCNA. Given what we've seen of mat prices in general the last year I don't see a reason to think it'll stop.

bmnoble

Its been around the 15 - 20K mark for months now on PC/NA, nothing new, doubt its going to go down anytime soon.

ShawnLaRock

It’s actually funny and quite disheartening coming from the VERY reasonable prices on XBOX NA to PCNA.

Literally the ONLY reason people CAN charge the exorbitant prices they charge on this server is because people actually PAY that amount.

Gross. Weird.

S.

thorwyn

Or maybe (just maybe) there is a high demand of dreugh wax because there are new playable and quite powerful light and medium sets in the pool after Blackwood release?

Pevey

1) People are gearing out for mid year mayhem. Price increase on mats as demand outpaces supply entirely predictable
2) Good new trial sets and and craft able set (diamond’s victory) in Blackwood. Price increase on mats as demand outpaces supply entirely predictable.
3) At least some of the people who normally farm and do writs and surveys (the supply part of the equation) are using some of their limited game time budget participating in the event. Price increase on mats as demand outpaces supply entirely predictable.
...
Oh, wait, I’m starting to see a pattern here.

jssriot

Pevey wrote: »

1) People are gearing out for mid year mayhem. Price increase on mats as demand outpaces supply entirely predictable
2) Good new trial sets and and craft able set (diamond’s victory) in Blackwood. Price increase on mats as demand outpaces supply entirely predictable.
3) At least some of the people who normally farm and do writs and surveys (the supply part of the equation) are using some of their limited game time budget participating in the event. Price increase on mats as demand outpaces supply entirely predictable.
...
Oh, wait, I’m starting to see a pattern here.

Yes. I'm someone who sell via guild traders, it's a big part of my day-to-day in ESO, and right now, since Blackwood, a huge bulk of what I've been selling is related to what people need to upgrade gear and builds. And know that not all of us sellers are asking the highest prices--one reason I'm selling a lot right now is because I sell on the lower end of what's the average price. That means sellers like me, our stuff sells super fast when the market is like this, and if you're seeing just things for the highest prices, it's not because of a conspiracy to keep prices high--it's because you got there after the cheaper stuff sold.

And regarding #3--this is important, and not just for MYM. We sellers need time to acquire materials and other things that we sell, and the time it takes us to do that factors into the prices, because we're saving other players time and our time isn't free. But with Blackwood, a lot of us sellers want to do that content too. I'm personally spending a lot of time leveling up my companions and just playing through the new content. My surveys are piling up, and some days I have to throw up some odds and ends in my guild stores because I don't have time to farm the good stuff. And I'm not the only seller doing this. This mean fewer sellers are competing for your sales, and that means prices can creep up, again not because of a conspiracy, but because there's fewer sellers pricing things competitively and giving buyer more options price-wise. This is just the nature of the ESO player economy. Deal with it, or go farm your own stuff.

Lastly, regarding Dreugh Wax specifically--the drop rate for it from refining raw mats has been always terrible. The prices for it only drop when we have an event like the Jubilee where a lot of people are getting a lot of it without a lot of work. But the Jubilee was months ago now, so it's back to people spending a lot of time harvesting raw mats and refining it. Go spend 3 hours harvesting enough raw mats to maybe get 8 pieces of it, and then see how much you'd want to sell it for.

bmnoble

Pevey wrote: »

1) People are gearing out for mid year mayhem. Price increase on mats as demand outpaces supply entirely predictable
2) Good new trial sets and and craft able set (diamond’s victory) in Blackwood. Price increase on mats as demand outpaces supply entirely predictable.
3) At least some of the people who normally farm and do writs and surveys (the supply part of the equation) are using some of their limited game time budget participating in the event. Price increase on mats as demand outpaces supply entirely predictable.
...
Oh, wait, I’m starting to see a pattern here.

That and quite a few of us that sell it, stop selling while we upgrade sets rather than buying the mats, can some times be a week before I start selling again while I prioritize upgrading my own gear.

trackdemon5512

jssriot wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

1) People are gearing out for mid year mayhem. Price increase on mats as demand outpaces supply entirely predictable
2) Good new trial sets and and craft able set (diamond’s victory) in Blackwood. Price increase on mats as demand outpaces supply entirely predictable.
3) At least some of the people who normally farm and do writs and surveys (the supply part of the equation) are using some of their limited game time budget participating in the event. Price increase on mats as demand outpaces supply entirely predictable.
...
Oh, wait, I’m starting to see a pattern here.

Yes. I'm someone who sell via guild traders, it's a big part of my day-to-day in ESO, and right now, since Blackwood, a huge bulk of what I've been selling is related to what people need to upgrade gear and builds. And know that not all of us sellers are asking the highest prices--one reason I'm selling a lot right now is because I sell on the lower end of what's the average price. That means sellers like me, our stuff sells super fast when the market is like this, and if you're seeing just things for the highest prices, it's not because of a conspiracy to keep prices high--it's because you got there after the cheaper stuff sold.

And regarding #3--this is important, and not just for MYM. We sellers need time to acquire materials and other things that we sell, and the time it takes us to do that factors into the prices, because we're saving other players time and our time isn't free. But with Blackwood, a lot of us sellers want to do that content too. I'm personally spending a lot of time leveling up my companions and just playing through the new content. My surveys are piling up, and some days I have to throw up some odds and ends in my guild stores because I don't have time to farm the good stuff. And I'm not the only seller doing this. This mean fewer sellers are competing for your sales, and that means prices can creep up, again not because of a conspiracy, but because there's fewer sellers pricing things competitively and giving buyer more options price-wise. This is just the nature of the ESO player economy. Deal with it, or go farm your own stuff.

Lastly, regarding Dreugh Wax specifically--the drop rate for it from refining raw mats has been always terrible. The prices for it only drop when we have an event like the Jubilee where a lot of people are getting a lot of it without a lot of work. But the Jubilee was months ago now, so it's back to people spending a lot of time harvesting raw mats and refining it. Go spend 3 hours harvesting enough raw mats to maybe get 8 pieces of it, and then see how much you'd want to sell it for.

The drop rate is 5% just like every other gold may. Around 6% to 7% with Meticulous Disassembly. Only PC has ridiculous prices for mats, crowns, and items and it’s likely attributable to add-ons. Add-ons allowing market manipulation, easy item collection, increased gold in the ecosystem, and wild inflation seeing as accumulated wealth has few sinks.

ApoAlaia

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

jssriot wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

1) People are gearing out for mid year mayhem. Price increase on mats as demand outpaces supply entirely predictable
2) Good new trial sets and and craft able set (diamond’s victory) in Blackwood. Price increase on mats as demand outpaces supply entirely predictable.
3) At least some of the people who normally farm and do writs and surveys (the supply part of the equation) are using some of their limited game time budget participating in the event. Price increase on mats as demand outpaces supply entirely predictable.
...
Oh, wait, I’m starting to see a pattern here.

Yes. I'm someone who sell via guild traders, it's a big part of my day-to-day in ESO, and right now, since Blackwood, a huge bulk of what I've been selling is related to what people need to upgrade gear and builds. And know that not all of us sellers are asking the highest prices--one reason I'm selling a lot right now is because I sell on the lower end of what's the average price. That means sellers like me, our stuff sells super fast when the market is like this, and if you're seeing just things for the highest prices, it's not because of a conspiracy to keep prices high--it's because you got there after the cheaper stuff sold.

And regarding #3--this is important, and not just for MYM. We sellers need time to acquire materials and other things that we sell, and the time it takes us to do that factors into the prices, because we're saving other players time and our time isn't free. But with Blackwood, a lot of us sellers want to do that content too. I'm personally spending a lot of time leveling up my companions and just playing through the new content. My surveys are piling up, and some days I have to throw up some odds and ends in my guild stores because I don't have time to farm the good stuff. And I'm not the only seller doing this. This mean fewer sellers are competing for your sales, and that means prices can creep up, again not because of a conspiracy, but because there's fewer sellers pricing things competitively and giving buyer more options price-wise. This is just the nature of the ESO player economy. Deal with it, or go farm your own stuff.

Lastly, regarding Dreugh Wax specifically--the drop rate for it from refining raw mats has been always terrible. The prices for it only drop when we have an event like the Jubilee where a lot of people are getting a lot of it without a lot of work. But the Jubilee was months ago now, so it's back to people spending a lot of time harvesting raw mats and refining it. Go spend 3 hours harvesting enough raw mats to maybe get 8 pieces of it, and then see how much you'd want to sell it for.

The drop rate is 5% just like every other gold may. Around 6% to 7% with Meticulous Disassembly. Only PC has ridiculous prices for mats, crowns, and items and it’s likely attributable to add-ons. Add-ons allowing market manipulation, easy item collection, increased gold in the ecosystem, and wild inflation seeing as accumulated wealth has few sinks.

The crux of the matter is, no one has to deal with the in-game economy.

Is not like for instance Dreugh Wax - which is the subject of this discussion - requires a huge industrial complex to refine thus making it impractical if not impossible to obtain for the average denizen of Tamriel.

Anyone can do the same thing the person that is putting the goods in traders does: do daily writs, harvest surveys, complement it with Craglorn/'starter island' farming runs if one has the time and dispositions to do so, refine the harvest and presto! Dreugh Wax.

Is not gated behind veteran HM trials or anything, is just there on the floor waiting for people to pick it up.

mrfrontman

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

I don't know which server you're on, but Dreugh Wax has been selling at 20K for a month on PCNA. Given what we've seen of mat prices in general the last year I don't see a reason to think it'll stop.

I'm playing on PCNA, dreugh wax has not been at 20k for the last month lol. It's been selling around the 12-16k mark, sometimes 18k. Now it's pushing for 20-30k which is absurd and if you take a look at the TTC website you'll see that the inflation happened overnight.

It's not like wax has stopped dropping and become rare all of a sudden. Greedy players looking to maximize their profits, that's all it is. I can assure you they didn't buy it anywhere near that price. I've got several people on my friends list who still sell at 13-14k each with no issues and they sell by the hundreds.

All I'm saying is, don't let these players take advantage of you. Wait it out until they realize we're not THAT desperate. Personally for me, I draw the line at 16k for wax and that's already an absurd price compared to what we used to pay. I only hope the rest of you don't give in too because we'll be paying 50k per wax before you know it if you allow them to get away with it.

b101uk

it is about time they implemented price caps for selling some items via traders, which would overnight stop groups from buying up large amounts of specific things to create amount of shortage to drive price up so they can then resell at the new higher price.

Lysette

There will always be people who pay more than usual - it just takes a little longer to sell it in this case - but someone will come along and pay the price - even it would be 25 or 30k a pop - most people aren't using a trading add-on and they browse just at a few shops before they make their decision - so there is a good chance to get it sold within 30 days, even heavily overpriced.

Lysette

b101uk wrote: »

it is about time they implemented price caps for selling some items via traders, which would overnight stop groups from buying up large amounts of specific things to create amount of shortage to drive price up so they can then resell at the new higher price.

nah, all it takes is more discipline not caving in and buy it despite it's too high price. It is not the seller's fault, if the price is too high, but the buyer's fault, when he actually pays the price. Just don't buy it, then the price would go down. But as there are always some people buying it nevertheless, so why not offer them overpriced items then?- They want it, they can have it.

And if you want it that desperately to pay this price - then it's your fault that it is not going down, but might rise even more.

Naftal

The problem is gold inflation. EVERYTHING costs more and more because gold is less and less valuable.

Use your gold, because saving it will only make you poorer.

confettibae

I don’t understand complaints about mat prices. As someone in 3 trade guilds and 2 PvP guilds, the prices are set by everyone who needs it and doesn’t want to farm it.

It is literally free on the ground. I have a storage character full of survey maps and you know what, I’d prefer to make my gold other ways and pay someone else to do it. They deserve every penny, because that’s not how I want to spend my time.

If you don’t want to pay for it you can farm it. Or you can spend loads of time and make gold off it. Totes up to you.

Fikkan

Forget the wax!

How about dang silver ore?!!

I've been stuck on lvl 35 jeweler forever. I'd love to go out and just harvest the stuff myself but the seams I run into are a level or two higher and I can't even point/spec into that until I get to 40 jeweler.

I go all over the map looking for the stuff on guild vendors. Found one batch of 50 for 25k. Nope.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

The problem is the price of things including Dreugh Wax just keeps rising and has been for many months

Dreugh Wax has increased in price by over 500% in the last few years, I remember when it used to be around 3k-4k, I can tell you that if things keep going the way they are soon they will cost 30k each, do you really want to be paying that much?

ZOS has to do something, flood the economy with Gold Tempers until they lose their value, hell we need something to outright reduce the amount of gold in the game to get the price of things back to non-inflated levels, sometimes drastic measures need to be taken.

vesselwiththepestle

Fikkan wrote: »

Forget the wax!

How about dang silver ore?!!

I've been stuck on lvl 35 jeweler forever. I'd love to go out and just harvest the stuff myself but the seams I run into are a level or two higher and I can't even point/spec into that until I get to 40 jeweler.

I go all over the map looking for the stuff on guild vendors. Found one batch of 50 for 25k. Nope.

Go do dolmen, decon the jewelry.

Also, who golds out their light/medium armor? In most cases it is not worth it. Many sets have a fixed 5 piece bonus which does not increase by the item quality. That's different for Jewelry, where you want to get the most out of Infused/Harmony/Bloodthirsty. If you run Arcane/Robust, again, it doesn't matter if it's gold or purple.

kmontywrwb17_ESO

I mean, I just refuse to buy it at the inflated prices. [snip]

[snipped for inappropriate content & language]

Fikkan

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Fikkan wrote: »

Forget the wax!

How about dang silver ore?!!

I've been stuck on lvl 35 jeweler forever. I'd love to go out and just harvest the stuff myself but the seams I run into are a level or two higher and I can't even point/spec into that until I get to 40 jeweler.

I go all over the map looking for the stuff on guild vendors. Found one batch of 50 for 25k. Nope.

Go do dolmen, decon the jewelry.

Also, who golds out their light/medium armor? In most cases it is not worth it. Many sets have a fixed 5 piece bonus which does not increase by the item quality. That's different for Jewelry, where you want to get the most out of Infused/Harmony/Bloodthirsty. If you run Arcane/Robust, again, it doesn't matter if it's gold or purple.

I'm a total newb (mostly noob) so will have to look up the dolmen gizmo. Thanks.

xSurge

It's supply and demand. With the PvP event going on right now, people are gearing up toons to increase their chances of survival. I can't even begin to explain how many requests our guilds crafters are getting for stuff at the moment as everyone feverishly tries to find something that keepsr them alive for longer than 3 and a half seconds in PvP. IThe prices will probably fall again after the events over and all the PvE players stop caring about PvP again.

Valion

xSurge wrote: »

It's supply and demand.

Tendencially yes, but once your business network has got a certain size and influence - simply put: Gold! - you can invoke a huge impact on the prices of a certain ware, controlling it finally.
That's why there are regulations on the global markets, and that's why every developed country has antitrust divisions and -laws in action.

ESO hasn't many of these besides the taxation.
Which serves us not, by the way.
(Read: Boston, please!)

So, scenarios of price manipulation might not be a current fact, but they still are realistic.

PigofSteel

Good its the right time to sell stacks now.

Asardes

On PC-NA I have only one character, and he has 3 full setups for PvE DPS, tanking and PvP, all full gold quality. I haven't bought any upgrade materials in more than a year and all I did was writs, surveys and casual pickup & refinement. In fact I've even started selling the surplus recently. So if you play one character and you do writs on that character only you'll probably have enough upgrade materials to do a full setup every couple of months. In fact there's no extra effort involved since you have 2-3 spare minutes while queueing for BGs, Cyrodiil or getting the trial group together.

My take on the price increase is basically gold inflation. With the new CP you get up to 10% increased gold from just killing mobs or turning in quests, you can get an extra 20% gold from looting chests, and even before that gold was quite easy to get. Additionally there are free gold drops, often up to 100k from the daily login rewards. Add the fact that there are few actual gold sinks once you're done with bank and bag upgrades and mount training, as well as houses and it's not surprising there are plenty of players with millions running around and speculating on materials.

xSurge

Valion wrote: »

xSurge wrote: »

It's supply and demand.

Tendencially yes, but once your business network has got a certain size and influence - simply put: Gold! - you can invoke a huge impact on the prices of a certain ware, controlling it finally.
That's why there are regulations on the global markets, and that's why every developed country has antitrust divisions and -laws in action.

ESO hasn't many of these besides the taxation.
Which serves us not, by the way.
(Read: Boston, please!)

So, scenarios of price manipulation might not be a current fact, but they still are realistic.

I'm not saying that there is absolutely NO price manipulation in ESO, I'm simply stating that a small increase in the price of gold mats overnight, doesn't mean that there's some massive conspiracy to manipulate the market. It's easy to tell when it's the natural flow of the market, and when players are manipulating it. For example DW went up slightly as everyone bought it up. But if you remember the other day, pariah gear that was selling for next to nothing suddenly skyrocketed when certain players found out it people were gonna use it for PvP. So I'm talking about what the threads author was complaining about, which was the issue they had with DW.

trackdemon5512

Regardless of the current spike in prices, it’s been clear for quite some time that the trader prices of items on PC is dramatically higher than on consoles. I can understand the notion of the developer taking a hands free approach to an essentially free market but it’s rather clear that they dynamics of PC play differ so wildly from that of console that you have to wonder if it goes beyond what ZOS wants. And in that respect I mean that serving the development and expectations of the PC crowd is becoming out of touch of serving the entire game community.

The way I hear some players utilize add-ons for buying low mats to resell higher instantly is like listening to reports about computerized instant stock selling. In such cases the facilitation of technology has resulted in a real life buying/trading of stocks at prices to maximize gain that’s impossible for a human to do. By engaging in such you cut the average Joe out who can’t participate but you also develop a system and market where things aren’t valued as they should be.

There is clearly more than enough Dreugh Wax in the game and on PC. Between add-ons, farmers, bots, surveys, and regular play there should be no reason for a shortage. And yet prices go up for everyone for reasons of clear price manipulation. Prices for everything have been manipulated and ruined by whatever is going on with PC that the consoles generally ignore the results of trading bots on discord.

Everything on PC is coming across as being roughly 4 times more expensive than consoles and when those platforms are healthy without extreme gold sinks it pains to players to think what happens when the developers begin to account for the amount on gold floating around on PC, implement drops and item rates based on that, and it trickles to console wildly out of touch with reality.

Waseem

thorwyn wrote: »

Or maybe (just maybe) there is a high demand of dreugh wax because there are new playable and quite powerful light and medium sets in the pool after Blackwood release?

[snip]
you are aware that some players hoard not thousands but millions of yellow upgrade materials in their crafting bag right?
and just to keep prices as high as possible

[Edited for rude comments]

SidraWillowsky

Fikkan wrote: »

Forget the wax!

How about dang silver ore?!!

I've been stuck on lvl 35 jeweler forever. I'd love to go out and just harvest the stuff myself but the seams I run into are a level or two higher and I can't even point/spec into that until I get to 40 jeweler.

I go all over the map looking for the stuff on guild vendors. Found one batch of 50 for 25k. Nope.

What server/platform are you on? If you're PC/NA send me a PM with your @ name in-game and I can send you a bunch.

(Assuming you need ore, not dust)

Red_Feather

It is pretty crazy. I sold some for 17k and thought it was nuts as I remembered a time when it was easily half that.

Wing

bmnoble wrote: »

Its been around the 15 - 20K mark for months now on PC/NA, nothing new, doubt its going to go down anytime soon.

its because of mods, TTC turns it into a global AH and people run around target buying cheap items to resell at inflated values