Should crystal and crushing weapon skills be reworked?

francesinhalover

I don't like skills that buff light attacks, they are weird to use in pvp , and weird in pve too. I want to use skills after light attack not before.
To make things worse the skills animation looks so much like an attack and not a buff when used on a dual wield.

Should the skills be buffed or reworked?
If the psijic and this skill are reworked to be a normal spammable , The skills could have the same animation however the animation now does dmg.
Also the psijic skill crushing weapon... the sound needs a rework too imo.

Some problems i have with this 2 abilitys are the fact sometimes if i press too soon i can't even light attack before i use the skill again to spam the enemy with dmg., the timing is weird because the skill feels slow so sometimes lagg makes me not even able to properly weave autos

sharquez

No just use the spamable alternatives like crushing/forceshock or crowsbow or whatever class spammable. they work with specific builds to boost light/ heavy attacks to creat burst. I use them both on several builds and there are already alternatives for those that dislike them.

Alucardo

They aren't very lag friendly, so yeah, I think I'd prefer something else. I never liked the psijic one, so when they finally added a stamina crystal shards and discovered it was the same deal I nearly cried.

WrathOfInnos

I love Crystal weapon, it might be the smoothest spammable in the game to weave. So much better than the clunky cast time on Crystal Fragments. And it gives a unique debuff that helps the whole group, activates Minor Prophecy, and triggers the self heal passive. 10/10 skill redesign, I wish they’d do something similar for other class spammables (Stone Giant, Jabs/Sweeps, Dark Flare, Cliff Racer).

francesinhalover

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I love Crystal weapon, it might be the smoothest spammable in the game to weave. So much better than the clunky cast time on Crystal Fragments. And it gives a unique debuff that helps the whole group, activates Minor Prophecy, and triggers the self heal passive. 10/10 skill redesign, I wish they’d do something similar for other class spammables (Stone Giant, Jabs/Sweeps, Dark Flare, Cliff Racer).

isn't minor prophecy aka spell crit, useless for stam?

rabidmyers

francesinhalover wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I love Crystal weapon, it might be the smoothest spammable in the game to weave. So much better than the clunky cast time on Crystal Fragments. And it gives a unique debuff that helps the whole group, activates Minor Prophecy, and triggers the self heal passive. 10/10 skill redesign, I wish they’d do something similar for other class spammables (Stone Giant, Jabs/Sweeps, Dark Flare, Cliff Racer).

isn't minor prophecy aka spell crit, useless for stam?

yeah he meant that it helps magicka players in group basically

Alucardo

I mentioned this idea a few years ago, but I always envisioned it working the same way as crystal shards. Slotting it on your bar has a chance to proc a Crystal Sword whenever you use stamina abilities. Using it unleashes an insta cast, high damaging attack

WrathOfInnos

rabid64 wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I love Crystal weapon, it might be the smoothest spammable in the game to weave. So much better than the clunky cast time on Crystal Fragments. And it gives a unique debuff that helps the whole group, activates Minor Prophecy, and triggers the self heal passive. 10/10 skill redesign, I wish they’d do something similar for other class spammables (Stone Giant, Jabs/Sweeps, Dark Flare, Cliff Racer).

isn't minor prophecy aka spell crit, useless for stam?

yeah he meant that it helps magicka players in group basically

Yep this. Before Crystal weapon a stam sorc could not really fill the Sorc role in a mixed group, still would need a mag Sorc if there were any mag DPS. Now it’s the opposite, stam sorc can do everything mag sorc provides and more. Even with a full stam group spell crit helps healers and sometimes tanks.

WrathOfInnos

Alucardo wrote: »

I mentioned this idea a few years ago, but I always envisioned it working the same way as crystal shards. Slotting it on your bar has a chance to proc a Crystal Sword whenever you use stamina abilities. Using it unleashes an insta cast, high damaging attack

Would have made sense at one point, but another semi-spammable burst skill isn’t needed since the Bound Armaments rework filled that role. In the same way, I don’t think Bound Aegis needs to become a Merciless/Armaments clone because mag sorc has a similar mechanic with Frags.

Amottica

francesinhalover wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I love Crystal weapon, it might be the smoothest spammable in the game to weave. So much better than the clunky cast time on Crystal Fragments. And it gives a unique debuff that helps the whole group, activates Minor Prophecy, and triggers the self heal passive. 10/10 skill redesign, I wish they’d do something similar for other class spammables (Stone Giant, Jabs/Sweeps, Dark Flare, Cliff Racer).

isn't minor prophecy aka spell crit, useless for stam?

Group buff. It seems a number of classes have passives that help the group even if they do not help their specific build.

WrathOfInnos

I guess we’re kinda ignoring the Psijic Crushing Weapon part of the topic. Agreed that skill is awful and nobody uses it ever. Maybe it could become more like the mag morph, and apply a status effect on every cast, based on Poison, Disease or Bleed.

sharquez

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I guess we’re kinda ignoring the Psijic Crushing Weapon part of the topic. Agreed that skill is awful and nobody uses it ever. Maybe it could become more like the mag morph, and apply a status effect on every cast, based on Poison, Disease or Bleed.

speak for yourself its a staple for single target gank builds

WrathOfInnos

sharquez wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I guess we’re kinda ignoring the Psijic Crushing Weapon part of the topic. Agreed that skill is awful and nobody uses it ever. Maybe it could become more like the mag morph, and apply a status effect on every cast, based on Poison, Disease or Bleed.

speak for yourself its a staple for single target gank builds

Do single target gank builds need it to have a self-heal at the expense of damage?

francesinhalover

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I guess we’re kinda ignoring the Psijic Crushing Weapon part of the topic. Agreed that skill is awful and nobody uses it ever. Maybe it could become more like the mag morph, and apply a status effect on every cast, based on Poison, Disease or Bleed.

speak for yourself its a staple for single target gank builds

Do single target gank builds need it to have a self-heal at the expense of damage?

The skill's dmg works on light attacks = short range. Aren't there skills with bigger range for gank builds?

Starlight_Whisper

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I guess we’re kinda ignoring the Psijic Crushing Weapon part of the topic. Agreed that skill is awful and nobody uses it ever. Maybe it could become more like the mag morph, and apply a status effect on every cast, based on Poison, Disease or Bleed.

As the other guy said speak for yourself, my healer uses it.

francesinhalover

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I guess we’re kinda ignoring the Psijic Crushing Weapon part of the topic. Agreed that skill is awful and nobody uses it ever. Maybe it could become more like the mag morph, and apply a status effect on every cast, based on Poison, Disease or Bleed.

As the other guy said speak for yourself, my healer uses it.

Your healer uses a stamina skill?

Starlight_Whisper

francesinhalover wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I guess we’re kinda ignoring the Psijic Crushing Weapon part of the topic. Agreed that skill is awful and nobody uses it ever. Maybe it could become more like the mag morph, and apply a status effect on every cast, based on Poison, Disease or Bleed.

As the other guy said speak for yourself, my healer uses it.

Your healer uses a stamina skill?

Of course it's a support skill to help the group. Templars do it too with their similar skills.

francesinhalover

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I guess we’re kinda ignoring the Psijic Crushing Weapon part of the topic. Agreed that skill is awful and nobody uses it ever. Maybe it could become more like the mag morph, and apply a status effect on every cast, based on Poison, Disease or Bleed.

As the other guy said speak for yourself, my healer uses it.

Your healer uses a stamina skill?

Of course it's a support skill to help the group. Templars do it too with their similar skills.

I mean yeah, but shouldn't healers use the magicka morph? and not the stamina morph?

WrathOfInnos

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I guess we’re kinda ignoring the Psijic Crushing Weapon part of the topic. Agreed that skill is awful and nobody uses it ever. Maybe it could become more like the mag morph, and apply a status effect on every cast, based on Poison, Disease or Bleed.

As the other guy said speak for yourself, my healer uses it.

Your healer uses a stamina skill?

Of course it's a support skill to help the group. Templars do it too with their similar skills.

You mean Crystal Weapon for the armor debuff? My opinion is Crystal Weapon good, Crushing Weapon bad. Very similar function, but one helps the group, while the other just provides a tiny heal to the user.

Starlight_Whisper

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I guess we’re kinda ignoring the Psijic Crushing Weapon part of the topic. Agreed that skill is awful and nobody uses it ever. Maybe it could become more like the mag morph, and apply a status effect on every cast, based on Poison, Disease or Bleed.

As the other guy said speak for yourself, my healer uses it.

Your healer uses a stamina skill?

Of course it's a support skill to help the group. Templars do it too with their similar skills.

You mean Crystal Weapon for the armor debuff? My opinion is Crystal Weapon good, Crushing Weapon bad. Very similar function, but one helps the group, while the other just provides a tiny heal to the user.

Crushing is nice on healer too cause with charged weapon it procs burning and minor maim often along with new cp passives

WrathOfInnos

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I guess we’re kinda ignoring the Psijic Crushing Weapon part of the topic. Agreed that skill is awful and nobody uses it ever. Maybe it could become more like the mag morph, and apply a status effect on every cast, based on Poison, Disease or Bleed.

As the other guy said speak for yourself, my healer uses it.

Your healer uses a stamina skill?

Of course it's a support skill to help the group. Templars do it too with their similar skills.

You mean Crystal Weapon for the armor debuff? My opinion is Crystal Weapon good, Crushing Weapon bad. Very similar function, but one helps the group, while the other just provides a tiny heal to the user.

Crushing is nice on healer too cause with charged weapon it procs burning and minor maim often along with new cp passives

That sounds like the Elemental Weapon morph, which i would agree is a useful skill.

sharquez

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I guess we’re kinda ignoring the Psijic Crushing Weapon part of the topic. Agreed that skill is awful and nobody uses it ever. Maybe it could become more like the mag morph, and apply a status effect on every cast, based on Poison, Disease or Bleed.

speak for yourself its a staple for single target gank builds

Do single target gank builds need it to have a self-heal at the expense of damage?

it's extra damage added to a weave while using another skill, your getting a light attack and two skills worth of damage at the same time.

Alucardo

I've actually been playing around with it a lot more on an 8k weapon damage stam sorc. I'd like to retract my previous statement.. crystal weapon is fine as it is

Zodiarkslayer

I love crystal weapon on my StamSorc Bow build. If I have the range, I can cast it after I let loose a Light Attack and still get the additional damage. I can one shot daedroths from stealth with a heavy attack. That fits the sniper theme perfectly.

On 2W or 2H setups it is more awkward to use. But still far bettter than crushing or elemental weapon. The reason simply being that the animation has this backwards movement of the arms. It is totally counterintuitive.
The animation of the psijic skills feels even more clunkier. From a strict "effect only" point of view both are alright, though.

I think the type of "buff LA" ability is generally awkward, when compared to direct damage type of spammables. So if anything should change, than this buff LA concept should be dropped in favour of diversity in "real" spammables.

And PvP ramifications shouldn't be considered here. They have enough options as is.

Alucardo

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I think the type of "buff LA" ability is generally awkward, when compared to direct damage type of spammables. So if anything should change, than this buff LA concept should be dropped in favour of diversity in "real" spammables.

And PvP ramifications shouldn't be considered here. They have enough options as is.

Yeah it is pretty awkward, especially when compared to, say, surprise attack. It instantly goes off and arguably hits harder or just as hard. Crystal weapon requires the animation to play out, and then the time it takes to perform a light/heavy attack. If you miss, or get CCd, then you need to reapply wasting resources. It'd be nice if it gave resources back if not used, or alternatively, increase the duration so you don't have to keep casting it when your target runs out of range or stuns you.
This is one of the reasons I never used the psijic ability, but at least that refunds a large portion of its cost.

WrathOfInnos

sharquez wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I guess we’re kinda ignoring the Psijic Crushing Weapon part of the topic. Agreed that skill is awful and nobody uses it ever. Maybe it could become more like the mag morph, and apply a status effect on every cast, based on Poison, Disease or Bleed.

speak for yourself its a staple for single target gank builds

Do single target gank builds need it to have a self-heal at the expense of damage?

it's extra damage added to a weave while using another skill, your getting a light attack and two skills worth of damage at the same time.

Right, I get the concept. I just mean that the morph effect does almost nothing. You could do the same with unmorphed Imbue Weapon. It would be a much more versatile skill if it worked more like Ele Weapon (giving status effects) or Crystal Weapon (a unique debuff). A niche use in gank builds, that don’t even make use of the self-heal component, is not enough to justify the state of Crushing Weapon.