So how's the frostbite set for magden right now?

hcbigdogdoghc

I see prettyy much zero discussion on this set after blackwood dropped

The only thing I see is people trashing on that set during PTS.

Is it worth using at least? I really want to use something else other than the same old meta sets

ixthUA

It adds a lot of damage to frost staff light attacks and ice AOE skills (frost wall, ice comet, winters revenge). I use it in my solo PVE build together with winter's respite.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Well, in pretty much every situation it's weaker than some other sets. But if you don't mind having a bit less damage, you can use it.
The main issue I see with that set is that even on a warden most of your good damage skills don't deal frost damage.

ResidentContrarian

I am certain a build can be found to use that set, but it won't be conventional or anything like what players are used to imagining. But that's just the nature of the game and "balance" in it...

WrathOfInnos

It seems pretty good for a magden brittle build with frost staff front bar. Light attacks and Winter’s Revenge make up a decent portion of DPS. You’d probably want to run Charged front bar since your own damage relies so much on chill/brittle uptime, which means no precise and makes it hard to build crit. Most likely need the kilt and 1pc slimecraw to get some crit into the build, since the most likely sets to pair it with don’t have much (Bahsei or Siroria, maybe False Gods if you need sustain).

If you can keep 100% chill and brittle the 2% and 4% add up to 6%, which effectively increases DPS by ~4.7% before considering the 8% boost to frost damage. Tbh in this ideal case you could use it without a frost staff, since the 8% increase to Winter’s Revenge will add another ~0.5% DPS and make the set equivalent to Mother’s Sorrow overall. Realistically you’ll never see 100% chill and brittle, so Sorrow remains better on double Inferno Staff builds.

Fennwitty

It's decent and fun. It went through some buffs vs. its first appearance on PTS.

I expect the traditional MS / Medusa / other meta set would do better raw damage but this has interesting implications for PvP magden I think.

EDIT: Also seems to boost frost-based procs, so my magden has similar tooltips to before they were tied almost entirely to weapon/spell damage.

YandereGirlfriend

Good set idea but the balance team dropped the ball. As is, it's a whole big bag of missed opportunity.

Why go to all of the trouble of making a niche set when you're not even going to tune it well enough to allow it to be the BiS option at filling that niche? It boggles the mind.

Making sets for the sake of making sets rather than thinking through in advance what the purpose of the new set should be.

Zodiarkslayer

The biggest problem that the set has is the general lack of frost damage on class abilities.
Off the top of my hat, I would say there are only four normal and two ultimates? And they are only in Winter's Embrace and the necromancers Grave Lord. All other classes lack that option.
Yes frost staff and enchantments. Blah blah! Compare it to flame damage and shock damage and you won't be able to stop laughing for a minute!

WrathOfInnos

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

The biggest problem that the set has is the general lack of frost damage on class abilities.
Off the top of my hat, I would say there are only four normal and two ultimates? And they are only in Winter's Embrace and the necromancers Grave Lord. All other classes lack that option.
Yes frost staff and enchantments. Blah blah! Compare it to flame damage and shock damage and you won't be able to stop laughing for a minute!

You bring up an interesting point, a Magcro with Boneyard and Colossus deals more frost damage than a full DPS Magden (assuming both use double inferno staves or dual wield, not a brittle ice build). With about 12% of their damage coming from frost sources, Magcro would get more out of this set than Warden. Magcro also relies less on having a crit set like Sorrow, since they still get 16-20% crit chance in execute, and don’t get any bonus to crit damage like Warden does. Additionally Warden’s damage done passive from Animal Companions waters down the % bonuses on Frostbite slightly more than Necro’s DoT passive does.

In theory Frostbite could outperform Mother’s Sorrow on a typical Necromancer build by about 0.5% DPS. That would rely on someone else providing nearly 100% uptime on Minor Brittle and Chilled, and if it dropped to 90% then Sorrow would remain the better option. It also wouldn’t show up in a dummy parse since everyone uses Fiery Rage and Shooting Star instead of Colossus.

phaneub17_ESO

Too reliant on frost staff and lack of enough frost spells. Diamond's Victory, crafted, seems to play out better and not too difficult to maintain total uptime. Plus it works with all your arsenal not just frost staff and spells.

ESO_Nightingale

The set is alright but magicka warden definitely needs skill support to make it work better than a lot of other sets. Frost Shalks would be a massive improvement, along with perhaps frost SCR. However i also think that warden just needs another frost damage skill as well. Specifically via a reworked Arctic Blast. Definitely a set to keep your eye on.

ESO_Nightingale

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Good set idea but the balance team dropped the ball. As is, it's a whole big bag of missed opportunity.

Why go to all of the trouble of making a niche set when you're not even going to tune it well enough to allow it to be the BiS option at filling that niche? It boggles the mind.

Making sets for the sake of making sets rather than thinking through in advance what the purpose of the new set should be.

Maybe they had frost shalks in mind for a future patch, considering the huge amount of support for it and how it just makes so much sense for the class. I really hope so.

Stx

Not enough frost damage skills. Not even a spammable

khyrkat

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Why go to all of the trouble of making a niche set when you're not even going to tune it well enough to allow it to be the BiS option at filling that niche? It boggles the mind.

Making sets for the sake of making sets rather than thinking through in advance what the purpose of the new set should be.

This.
I mean... Out of hundreds sets available, 95% (guessing, probably more) is precisely a niche set without any logical niche build to use it with. Personally I am not into wasting time on making something useless but alright. At least "make 300 gear sets in game" task is checked.

ESO_Nightingale

khyrkat wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Why go to all of the trouble of making a niche set when you're not even going to tune it well enough to allow it to be the BiS option at filling that niche? It boggles the mind.

Making sets for the sake of making sets rather than thinking through in advance what the purpose of the new set should be.

This.
I mean... Out of hundreds sets available, 95% (guessing, probably more) is precisely a niche set without any logical niche build to use it with. Personally I am not into wasting time on making something useless but alright. At least "make 300 gear sets in game" task is checked.

we've been trying to get zos to make the niche for like 4 years. we're SLOWLY getting there.

ESO_Nightingale

Stx wrote: »

Not enough frost damage skills. Not even a spammable

While FP is technically one i definitely understand. If you play a magden with frostbite, only 1/3 of the ST damage gets the 18% bonus. Would be nice to have frost shalks and AB4.0 to be able to proc chilled in aoe so you could really get the aoe cleave from force pulse.

robpr

It's pretty decent, you can use it in absence of DK Zen in groups and your dps won't suffer that much.
This is with Siroria, you can get more with Bahsei Mania. Also I'm not very good with Wardens so if you main one you can get even more damage. Plus I used double Ice staves, backbar inferno would do more I assume.

ESO_Nightingale

robpr wrote: »

It's pretty decent, you can use it in absence of DK Zen in groups and your dps won't suffer that much.
This is with Siroria, you can get more with Bahsei Mania. Also I'm not very good with Wardens so if you main one you can get even more damage. Plus I used double Ice staves, backbar inferno would do more I assume.

Unfortunately there's just better sets and very little support for frostbite

six2fall

Yeah it feels underwhelming when compared to the top sets. Saw some damage increase spikes here & there but overall dps was down. If warden had more skills based on ice/freeze damage think would help the inconsistencies

ESO_Nightingale

six2fall wrote: »

Yeah it feels underwhelming when compared to the top sets. Saw some damage increase spikes here & there but overall dps was down. If warden had more skills based on ice/freeze damage think would help the inconsistencies

Absolutely.

AcadianPaladin

I won't use it for two reasons:
- Ignores healing for allies that are not grouped with you.
- Shalks, cliff racer and bear are not frost damage.

ESO_Nightingale

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I won't use it for two reasons:
- Ignores healing for allies that are not grouped with you.
- Shalks, cliff racer and bear are not frost damage.

the latter I fully agree with but the former? what? i'm so confused

Alucardo

Buff Ysgramor 5pc to 600 (similar to sword singer for the 2h skill line), and I might be able to finally make my Cryomancer. Personally I'd buff Frostbite to at least 12%, OR alternatively add 200 spell damage to the current 5pc.

ESO_Nightingale

Alucardo wrote: »

Buff Ysgramor 5pc to 600 (similar to sword singer for the 2h skill line), and I might be able to finally make my Cryomancer. Personally I'd buff Frostbite to at least 12%, OR alternatively add 200 spell damage to the current 5pc.

honestly, i think a ysgram buff would be awesome, but i think frostbite is relatively okay at the moment by itself, we need more skills via animal companions and/or winter's embrace

Alucardo

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Buff Ysgramor 5pc to 600 (similar to sword singer for the 2h skill line), and I might be able to finally make my Cryomancer. Personally I'd buff Frostbite to at least 12%, OR alternatively add 200 spell damage to the current 5pc.

honestly, i think a ysgram buff would be awesome, but i think frostbite is relatively okay at the moment by itself, we need more skills via animal companions and/or winter's embrace

It'd probably be enough, yeah. I suppose if you wanted to go all out on frost damage, buffing Ysgramor to 600 and wearing Frostbite as well would in turn buff that set.

ESO_Nightingale

Alucardo wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Buff Ysgramor 5pc to 600 (similar to sword singer for the 2h skill line), and I might be able to finally make my Cryomancer. Personally I'd buff Frostbite to at least 12%, OR alternatively add 200 spell damage to the current 5pc.

honestly, i think a ysgram buff would be awesome, but i think frostbite is relatively okay at the moment by itself, we need more skills via animal companions and/or winter's embrace

It'd probably be enough, yeah. I suppose if you wanted to go all out on frost damage, buffing Ysgramor to 600 and wearing Frostbite as well would in turn buff that set.

600 ysgram and frost shalks+scr would probably be enough to start getting stuff working, but man, it would be awesome to see arctic blast be a legit damage skill, it has the potential.

Alucardo

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Buff Ysgramor 5pc to 600 (similar to sword singer for the 2h skill line), and I might be able to finally make my Cryomancer. Personally I'd buff Frostbite to at least 12%, OR alternatively add 200 spell damage to the current 5pc.

honestly, i think a ysgram buff would be awesome, but i think frostbite is relatively okay at the moment by itself, we need more skills via animal companions and/or winter's embrace

It'd probably be enough, yeah. I suppose if you wanted to go all out on frost damage, buffing Ysgramor to 600 and wearing Frostbite as well would in turn buff that set.

600 ysgram and frost shalks+scr would probably be enough to start getting stuff working, but man, it would be awesome to see arctic blast be a legit damage skill, it has the potential.

Completely agree on all points. So much lost potential with Wardens right now.

ESO_Nightingale

Alucardo wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Buff Ysgramor 5pc to 600 (similar to sword singer for the 2h skill line), and I might be able to finally make my Cryomancer. Personally I'd buff Frostbite to at least 12%, OR alternatively add 200 spell damage to the current 5pc.

honestly, i think a ysgram buff would be awesome, but i think frostbite is relatively okay at the moment by itself, we need more skills via animal companions and/or winter's embrace

It'd probably be enough, yeah. I suppose if you wanted to go all out on frost damage, buffing Ysgramor to 600 and wearing Frostbite as well would in turn buff that set.

600 ysgram and frost shalks+scr would probably be enough to start getting stuff working, but man, it would be awesome to see arctic blast be a legit damage skill, it has the potential.

Completely agree on all points. So much lost potential with Wardens right now.

I'm kinda hoping that because the cp and gear stuff is over now, that zos finally has some time for classes again since dragonhold. and given the recent support via minor brittle and frostbite, and the now overwhelming support for frost animal companions i'm anticipating some actual changes to skills which has been the main problem for a long time. but i'm probably hyping myself up way too much. either way we'll see in about 2 weeks or so.

Alucardo

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Buff Ysgramor 5pc to 600 (similar to sword singer for the 2h skill line), and I might be able to finally make my Cryomancer. Personally I'd buff Frostbite to at least 12%, OR alternatively add 200 spell damage to the current 5pc.

honestly, i think a ysgram buff would be awesome, but i think frostbite is relatively okay at the moment by itself, we need more skills via animal companions and/or winter's embrace

It'd probably be enough, yeah. I suppose if you wanted to go all out on frost damage, buffing Ysgramor to 600 and wearing Frostbite as well would in turn buff that set.

600 ysgram and frost shalks+scr would probably be enough to start getting stuff working, but man, it would be awesome to see arctic blast be a legit damage skill, it has the potential.

Completely agree on all points. So much lost potential with Wardens right now.

I'm kinda hoping that because the cp and gear stuff is over now, that zos finally has some time for classes again since dragonhold. and given the recent support via minor brittle and frostbite, and the now overwhelming support for frost animal companions i'm anticipating some actual changes to skills which has been the main problem for a long time. but i'm probably hyping myself up way too much. either way we'll see in about 2 weeks or so.

Honestly, there was overwhelming negativity when they finally released a frost skill line and people discovered it was for tanking. I too hope they can add more damage options for frost, and I rarely play magicka builds. Just giving shalks/cliff racer frost damage would be an amazing start. I think just by adding Frostbite they are open to the option of frost being a useful damage source, and it could be the start of something, but I'm probably just hyping myself up too.

ESO_Nightingale

Alucardo wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Buff Ysgramor 5pc to 600 (similar to sword singer for the 2h skill line), and I might be able to finally make my Cryomancer. Personally I'd buff Frostbite to at least 12%, OR alternatively add 200 spell damage to the current 5pc.

honestly, i think a ysgram buff would be awesome, but i think frostbite is relatively okay at the moment by itself, we need more skills via animal companions and/or winter's embrace

It'd probably be enough, yeah. I suppose if you wanted to go all out on frost damage, buffing Ysgramor to 600 and wearing Frostbite as well would in turn buff that set.

600 ysgram and frost shalks+scr would probably be enough to start getting stuff working, but man, it would be awesome to see arctic blast be a legit damage skill, it has the potential.

Completely agree on all points. So much lost potential with Wardens right now.

I'm kinda hoping that because the cp and gear stuff is over now, that zos finally has some time for classes again since dragonhold. and given the recent support via minor brittle and frostbite, and the now overwhelming support for frost animal companions i'm anticipating some actual changes to skills which has been the main problem for a long time. but i'm probably hyping myself up way too much. either way we'll see in about 2 weeks or so.

Honestly, there was overwhelming negativity when they finally released a frost skill line and people discovered it was for tanking. I too hope they can add more damage options for frost, and I rarely play magicka builds. Just giving shalks/cliff racer frost damage would be an amazing start. I think just by adding Frostbite they are open to the option of frost being a useful damage source, and it could be the start of something, but I'm probably just hyping myself up too.

Yeah i agree. They've enabled support for the subclass via great passives (firstly, my glacial presence buff suggestion which i pitched to a developer which they added in harrowstorm. And then the minor brittle buff which was almost certainly them trying to mediate between the 2 parties. As we had said for a long time that we wanted the frost staff to focus on critical.

And then with frostbite which is pretty much exactly what we asked for in a new frost based stat set. Since we tried pitching ideas for sets based around the application of chilled and then recieved exactly that via frostbite, my thoughts are that they absolutely do have us in mind. But i still have some scepticism just because of the history of balance changes. However at this point we absolutely need frost damage skills in warden's main rotation.

AcadianPaladin

@ESO_Nightingale thanks for mentioning your confusion about my healing comment. I had healer on the brain and was mixing Frostbite with Winter's Respite. Glad you gave me the opportunity to address my error.