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Please enlighten me: How is that possible?
Adernath
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Hey folks,
after some time I dipped into PvP again and there was some intense fighting at a keep. A few fellow AD players chased some reds inside a keep edge tower, when one of them turned back and killed the 4 of us in an instant. Due to the high numbers there was no form of counterplay or anything what could be done. In the death recap I saw that I even got hit 2x with this insane amount of dmg, and I suspect the others too as they were killed as well (see screenshot).
I played a magcorc and so I understand that I am quite squishy, as you can see in my stats below. However, I still have some sort of defenses and therefore would not expect that these numbers are that high, without any form of counterplay. Perhaps sone of you could give me a hint of what happened and perhaps prevent getting 1-shotted like this?
Thanks in advance for helping me out. I hope there will be some solution.
Current stats:
after some time I dipped into PvP again and there was some intense fighting at a keep. A few fellow AD players chased some reds inside a keep edge tower, when one of them turned back and killed the 4 of us in an instant. Due to the high numbers there was no form of counterplay or anything what could be done. In the death recap I saw that I even got hit 2x with this insane amount of dmg, and I suspect the others too as they were killed as well (see screenshot).
I played a magcorc and so I understand that I am quite squishy, as you can see in my stats below. However, I still have some sort of defenses and therefore would not expect that these numbers are that high, without any form of counterplay. Perhaps sone of you could give me a hint of what happened and perhaps prevent getting 1-shotted like this?
Thanks in advance for helping me out. I hope there will be some solution.
Current stats:
1
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ClawOfTheTwoMoons✭✭✭✭Dk used corssive armor which bypasses all your resistance. On top of that they're probably using the masters 2h which increases the damage of brawler for every target it hits.11 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭lol squishy? I dream of that much recovery and health.
Everything below 30k is squishy. Actually 30k without armors is medium toughness, isn't even enough for high MMR premades because 2 player coordinated burst gets you and healer can't save.8 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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Yep. This. The reason to use Brawler at all is that weapon. The more targets you hit, the more damage you do and you deal that increased damage to every single target. I don't think there is a cap. Hitting 9 target skeletons with Brawler hits them harder than Reverse Slice in execute range (with Master's 2H). If you happen to run a pet sorc, a Brawler build is your counterplay. Normally pets protect you, because they make you hard to hit. Brawler turns that on it's head. It's just rarely played in PvP or, at least, it doesn't win you duels, which is why it probably flies under the radar. Let's say you're on a flag with a couple of guards around you and you have two to three pets out, Brawler may hit you incredibly hard.ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »Dk used corssive armor which bypasses all your resistance. On top of that they're probably using the masters 2h which increases the damage of brawler for every target it hits.
Your counterplay is to not stay together and get away from NPCs. Also watch out for Corrosive Armor in general. There is a subtle sound and green poison effect on the DK. Corrosive Armor is not that commonly used. In a duel it is easy to see and wait it out. Look out for it and stay away from the DK. They're not going to leap you, because they've just blown their ultimate. It's an easy one to avoid, if you know what to look for.6 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭
Yep. This. The reason to use Brawler at all is that weapon. The more targets you hit, the more damage you do and you deal that increased damage to every single target. I don't think there is a cap. Hitting 9 target skeletons with Brawler hits them harder than Reverse Slice in execute range (with Master's 2H). If you happen to run a pet sorc, a Brawler build is your counterplay. Normally pets protect you, because they make you hard to hit. Brawler turns that on it's head. It's just rarely played in PvP or, at least, it doesn't win you duels, which is why it probably flies under the radar. Let's say you're on a flag with a couple of guards around you and you have two to three pets out, Brawler may hit you incredibly hard.ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »Dk used corssive armor which bypasses all your resistance. On top of that they're probably using the masters 2h which increases the damage of brawler for every target it hits.
Your counterplay is to not stay together and get away from NPCs. Also watch out for Corrosive Armor in general. There is a subtle sound and green poison effect on the DK. Corrosive Armor is not that commonly used. In a duel it is easy to see and wait it out. Look out for it and stay away from the DK. They're not going to leap you, because they've just blown their ultimate. It's an easy one to avoid, if you know what to look for.
Ok thanks, I was not aware that brawler dmg multiplies due to several targets. Together with corrosive armor it is pretty OP still...Edited by Adernath on June 20, 2021 11:49PM0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
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Yep. This. The reason to use Brawler at all is that weapon. The more targets you hit, the more damage you do and you deal that increased damage to every single target. I don't think there is a cap. Hitting 9 target skeletons with Brawler hits them harder than Reverse Slice in execute range (with Master's 2H). If you happen to run a pet sorc, a Brawler build is your counterplay. Normally pets protect you, because they make you hard to hit. Brawler turns that on it's head. It's just rarely played in PvP or, at least, it doesn't win you duels, which is why it probably flies under the radar. Let's say you're on a flag with a couple of guards around you and you have two to three pets out, Brawler may hit you incredibly hard.ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »Dk used corssive armor which bypasses all your resistance. On top of that they're probably using the masters 2h which increases the damage of brawler for every target it hits.
Your counterplay is to not stay together and get away from NPCs. Also watch out for Corrosive Armor in general. There is a subtle sound and green poison effect on the DK. Corrosive Armor is not that commonly used. In a duel it is easy to see and wait it out. Look out for it and stay away from the DK. They're not going to leap you, because they've just blown their ultimate. It's an easy one to avoid, if you know what to look for.
Ok thanks, I was not aware that brawler dmg multiplies due to several targets. Together with corrosive armor it is pretty OP still...
It's not OP. It's (very) situational in that you must willingly fight numerous opponents in close quarters combat to get those numbers, while using an ultimate no less. Otherwise it's a waste of a gearing bonus on an otherwise meh skill.8 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Yep. This. The reason to use Brawler at all is that weapon. The more targets you hit, the more damage you do and you deal that increased damage to every single target. I don't think there is a cap. Hitting 9 target skeletons with Brawler hits them harder than Reverse Slice in execute range (with Master's 2H). If you happen to run a pet sorc, a Brawler build is your counterplay. Normally pets protect you, because they make you hard to hit. Brawler turns that on it's head. It's just rarely played in PvP or, at least, it doesn't win you duels, which is why it probably flies under the radar. Let's say you're on a flag with a couple of guards around you and you have two to three pets out, Brawler may hit you incredibly hard.ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »Dk used corssive armor which bypasses all your resistance. On top of that they're probably using the masters 2h which increases the damage of brawler for every target it hits.
Your counterplay is to not stay together and get away from NPCs. Also watch out for Corrosive Armor in general. There is a subtle sound and green poison effect on the DK. Corrosive Armor is not that commonly used. In a duel it is easy to see and wait it out. Look out for it and stay away from the DK. They're not going to leap you, because they've just blown their ultimate. It's an easy one to avoid, if you know what to look for.
Ok thanks, I was not aware that brawler dmg multiplies due to several targets. Together with corrosive armor it is pretty OP still...
It's not OP. It's (very) situational in that you must willingly fight numerous opponents in close quarters combat to get those numbers, while using an ultimate no less. Otherwise it's a waste of a gearing bonus on an otherwise meh skill.
How I understand OP it is. That guy just had to pop up the ultimate to ignore the defense of each and everyone and use his standard aoe spammable. This doesnt require much skill really. If such a hard-hitting combo would have some delay OK, but being instant this is extremely difficult to avoid in particular with lag. Not staying together or avoid meele is very difficult either when chasing someone inside keeps or running around obstacles, which is what happens all the time. I guess I got hit with combos like this already more than once. Just happens now that I checked my log.
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ResidentContrarian✭✭✭✭✭That's why I say low armor, extreme damage, and % reduction offers better value than stacking resists.
Pointless endeavor.0 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭Or put it another way: An ulti like meteor may hit hard once (I dont get even come close to >10k mostly because it doesnt ignore def) and is extremely telegraphed. Here we have a situation were such large amount of damage can be spammed in an instant, and damage mitigation as a bonus on top of it.1
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ResidentContrarian✭✭✭✭✭Or put it another way: An ulti like meteor may hit hard once (I dont get even come close to >10k mostly because it doesnt ignore def) and is extremely telegraphed. Here we have a situation were such large amount of damage can be spammed in an instant, and damage mitigation as a bonus on top of it.
The thing is, though, you could always have still:
Blocked
Rolled
Shielded
Ran AoE damage reduction (Major Evasion)
Ran minor protection, major protection
Spammed healing ward
Snared enemy, moved
A combination of those would effectively make that person's build useless. I always run low armor and don't shield and it seems to be enough to do two to three of the above and survive nearly every burst situation.4 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭ResidentContrarian wrote: »Or put it another way: An ulti like meteor may hit hard once (I dont get even come close to >10k mostly because it doesnt ignore def) and is extremely telegraphed. Here we have a situation were such large amount of damage can be spammed in an instant, and damage mitigation as a bonus on top of it.
The thing is, though, you could always have still:
Blocked
Rolled
Shielded
Ran AoE damage reduction (Major Evasion)
Ran minor protection, major protection
Spammed healing ward
Snared enemy, moved
A combination of those would effectively make that person's build useless. I always run low armor and don't shield and it seems to be enough to do two to three of the above and survive nearly every burst situation.
It is very difficult to anticipate such large amounts of spammable damage in the haste of combat, in particular if there is some lag. Indeed, in that particular situation I had no shields and maybe I would have survided this burst otherwise, but remember 3 others did not managed to survive as well. We all died in an instant. Uusally I do a dodge very quickly but here it was too fast to react at all. Therefore, I find it OP to have the ability to being able to spam 10s with hits like >15k to an entire group.0 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Yep. This. The reason to use Brawler at all is that weapon. The more targets you hit, the more damage you do and you deal that increased damage to every single target. I don't think there is a cap. Hitting 9 target skeletons with Brawler hits them harder than Reverse Slice in execute range (with Master's 2H). If you happen to run a pet sorc, a Brawler build is your counterplay. Normally pets protect you, because they make you hard to hit. Brawler turns that on it's head. It's just rarely played in PvP or, at least, it doesn't win you duels, which is why it probably flies under the radar. Let's say you're on a flag with a couple of guards around you and you have two to three pets out, Brawler may hit you incredibly hard.ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »Dk used corssive armor which bypasses all your resistance. On top of that they're probably using the masters 2h which increases the damage of brawler for every target it hits.
Your counterplay is to not stay together and get away from NPCs. Also watch out for Corrosive Armor in general. There is a subtle sound and green poison effect on the DK. Corrosive Armor is not that commonly used. In a duel it is easy to see and wait it out. Look out for it and stay away from the DK. They're not going to leap you, because they've just blown their ultimate. It's an easy one to avoid, if you know what to look for.
Ok thanks, I was not aware that brawler dmg multiplies due to several targets. Together with corrosive armor it is pretty OP still...
It's not OP. It's (very) situational in that you must willingly fight numerous opponents in close quarters combat to get those numbers, while using an ultimate no less. Otherwise it's a waste of a gearing bonus on an otherwise meh skill.
How I understand OP it is. That guy just had to pop up the ultimate to ignore the defense of each and everyone and use his standard aoe spammable. This doesnt require much skill really. If such a hard-hitting combo would have some delay OK, but being instant this is extremely difficult to avoid in particular with lag. Not staying together or avoid meele is very difficult either when chasing someone inside keeps or running around obstacles, which is what happens all the time. I guess I got hit with combos like this already more than once. Just happens now that I checked my log.
It is not OP because brawler skill range is so tiny (7m in a cone) that you basically you just need to scatter a bit after first hit and everyone will be fine, as second hit will catch 2-3 players and the damage won't be that high.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Yep. This. The reason to use Brawler at all is that weapon. The more targets you hit, the more damage you do and you deal that increased damage to every single target. I don't think there is a cap. Hitting 9 target skeletons with Brawler hits them harder than Reverse Slice in execute range (with Master's 2H). If you happen to run a pet sorc, a Brawler build is your counterplay. Normally pets protect you, because they make you hard to hit. Brawler turns that on it's head. It's just rarely played in PvP or, at least, it doesn't win you duels, which is why it probably flies under the radar. Let's say you're on a flag with a couple of guards around you and you have two to three pets out, Brawler may hit you incredibly hard.ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »Dk used corssive armor which bypasses all your resistance. On top of that they're probably using the masters 2h which increases the damage of brawler for every target it hits.
Your counterplay is to not stay together and get away from NPCs. Also watch out for Corrosive Armor in general. There is a subtle sound and green poison effect on the DK. Corrosive Armor is not that commonly used. In a duel it is easy to see and wait it out. Look out for it and stay away from the DK. They're not going to leap you, because they've just blown their ultimate. It's an easy one to avoid, if you know what to look for.
Ok thanks, I was not aware that brawler dmg multiplies due to several targets. Together with corrosive armor it is pretty OP still...
It's not OP. It's (very) situational in that you must willingly fight numerous opponents in close quarters combat to get those numbers, while using an ultimate no less. Otherwise it's a waste of a gearing bonus on an otherwise meh skill.
How I understand OP it is. That guy just had to pop up the ultimate to ignore the defense of each and everyone and use his standard aoe spammable. This doesnt require much skill really. If such a hard-hitting combo would have some delay OK, but being instant this is extremely difficult to avoid in particular with lag. Not staying together or avoid meele is very difficult either when chasing someone inside keeps or running around obstacles, which is what happens all the time. I guess I got hit with combos like this already more than once. Just happens now that I checked my log.
You and a bunch of AD willingly chased outnumbered players into a defensive position of their choosing and got ambushed. Not seeing a problem here. If you think it's OP and not particularly skillful, go ahead and grab a Master's 2H and have a go at trying to melee more numerous foes. There are far too many people in Cyrodiil who opt to instead be on the more numerous side and chase people inside keeps and around obstacles.7 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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Yep, I agree.Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »
Yep. This. The reason to use Brawler at all is that weapon. The more targets you hit, the more damage you do and you deal that increased damage to every single target. I don't think there is a cap. Hitting 9 target skeletons with Brawler hits them harder than Reverse Slice in execute range (with Master's 2H). If you happen to run a pet sorc, a Brawler build is your counterplay. Normally pets protect you, because they make you hard to hit. Brawler turns that on it's head. It's just rarely played in PvP or, at least, it doesn't win you duels, which is why it probably flies under the radar. Let's say you're on a flag with a couple of guards around you and you have two to three pets out, Brawler may hit you incredibly hard.ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »Dk used corssive armor which bypasses all your resistance. On top of that they're probably using the masters 2h which increases the damage of brawler for every target it hits.
Your counterplay is to not stay together and get away from NPCs. Also watch out for Corrosive Armor in general. There is a subtle sound and green poison effect on the DK. Corrosive Armor is not that commonly used. In a duel it is easy to see and wait it out. Look out for it and stay away from the DK. They're not going to leap you, because they've just blown their ultimate. It's an easy one to avoid, if you know what to look for.
Ok thanks, I was not aware that brawler dmg multiplies due to several targets. Together with corrosive armor it is pretty OP still...
It's not OP. It's (very) situational in that you must willingly fight numerous opponents in close quarters combat to get those numbers, while using an ultimate no less. Otherwise it's a waste of a gearing bonus on an otherwise meh skill.
How I understand OP it is. That guy just had to pop up the ultimate to ignore the defense of each and everyone and use his standard aoe spammable. This doesnt require much skill really. If such a hard-hitting combo would have some delay OK, but being instant this is extremely difficult to avoid in particular with lag. Not staying together or avoid meele is very difficult either when chasing someone inside keeps or running around obstacles, which is what happens all the time. I guess I got hit with combos like this already more than once. Just happens now that I checked my log.
You and a bunch of AD willingly chased outnumbered players into a defensive position of their choosing and got ambushed. Not seeing a problem here.
@Adernath, you got caught off guard by something you did not know about. Now you do. That's part of this game's learning curve. Corrosive Armor has a subtle, but distinctive sound. Next time you hear it, you'll know that the DK may be up to something. At the very least you know that he will mitigate a lot of damage and that alone should make you back off and wait out the ulti. DKs who use that ulti hate nothing more than that.
The correct play in close quarters would probably have been to roll through him, so he has to turn 180 degrees before he can hit you with his Brawler. Players are not solid. You can just sprint or roll through them and you had 1 second to do so between the activation of his ultimate and him spamming Brawler. On the other hand, if you were at one of the doorway openings, rolling sideways into one of those and then hugging the wall is the bread and butter move, much like running around a tree is for LoS.
I might have been caught off guard by the sheer damage as well, to be honest. I usually fail to look at and remember people's names. That might be a good thing to do, so next time you know the guy by name and you know the build he's running and that you have to be quick when he pops Corrosive.
The defensive component of Corrosive can be easily overwhelmed, by the way. It's cap on incoming damage fails miserably against skills such as Flurry, Jabs, Crushing Shock and against DOTs. Caught in open field with 4 people spamming Force Pulse / Crushing Shock at him, that DK would be in trouble. It's all situational.2 -
Kartalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Major evasion is pretty useful at this point, between all the bombers, wardens, necros, and the odd templar who all rely on AOE damage to some degree. And apparently stamdk’s wielding a 2h masters weapon.-
Tri-faction tryhard but mainly EP in Gray Host lately (PC/NA)
- DISCARNATE - Tertiary Meat - @ Kartalin - Youtube
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Sluggy✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm going to have backup Joy Disivion on this one too. As a DK main I've tried this setup many times and I almost always end up dropping it very shortly after. It's *extremely* situational and landing that high-cost, low-cross-section AoE on even two people is mostly a matter of luck. The other thing is that it's *never* a two button combo. There are a lot of buffs that need to be managed on DKs just to keep them alive and ticking without considering things like maximizing burst potential and it takes a lot of practice and discipline to know when and where to use them. The counter play to almost every StamDK is to simply know what they can do and then watch for the signs. While they can be simple to play they are also extremely predictable and almost any experienced person I've fought will shut me down just as I'm about to enter my burst either with stuns, kiting and blocking, or simply putting so much pressure on me that I had to abandon my onslaught and go straight into survival mode.0 -
MrMazurski✭✭✭Corrosive armor + 2h weapon from dragonstar arena. If good remember you need only like 5k dmg, + like 3 target for achieve that 18k dmg with crital hit- Where "Update on Cyrodiil Performance & Upcoming AOE Tests"? I wish ZOS would stop kicking players' balls, especially those on Cyro
- - PC-EU / Ravenwatch0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ResidentContrarian wrote: »Or put it another way: An ulti like meteor may hit hard once (I dont get even come close to >10k mostly because it doesnt ignore def) and is extremely telegraphed. Here we have a situation were such large amount of damage can be spammed in an instant, and damage mitigation as a bonus on top of it.
The thing is, though, you could always have still:
Blocked
Rolled
Shielded
Ran AoE damage reduction (Major Evasion)
Ran minor protection, major protection
Spammed healing ward
Snared enemy, moved
A combination of those would effectively make that person's build useless. I always run low armor and don't shield and it seems to be enough to do two to three of the above and survive nearly every burst situation.
It is very difficult to anticipate such large amounts of spammable damage in the haste of combat, in particular if there is some lag. Indeed, in that particular situation I had no shields and maybe I would have survided this burst otherwise, but remember 3 others did not managed to survive as well. We all died in an instant. Uusally I do a dodge very quickly but here it was too fast to react at all. Therefore, I find it OP to have the ability to being able to spam 10s with hits like >15k to an entire group.
It's AOE, you block. Don't dodge and shields take too many global cooldowns to be reactive.
There is always someone or something that will catch you by surprise, or do massive damage. It doesn't mean it is "OP".0
