Npc guard skills and general rant about them

milllaurie

An interesting topic here.
Could we please get an update for npc guards skills?
I am sure they were NOT updated since launch, that's why we have:
* Infinite CCs from guards (if I am not mistaken there was no CC immunity at launch)
* Crystal shards that stun
* Eclipse that disorients
* DK guards that heal to 100%

The game has undergone countless of changes to skills since launch, could we please ask that NPC guard skills could follow the skill changes? That would only make sense.
Infinite stuns from guards are:
*not fun
*not neccessary
*not balanced
*not making any sense in current state of game.

Now guards are like time machines to 2014-2015 eso. Could it not be like that?
Please, thanks.

YandereGirlfriend

Indeed.

The NPC guards are like finding a time capsule from the beta days of the game.

When the mage guards manage to chain like 6-7 Negates back-to-back when you're trying to take a keep, it feels like the game is simply out to troll you. That's my biggest complaint with the guards. I'm not sure why they are allowed to use ultimate abilities at all.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

The guards were originally designed to aid the underpopulated factions in defending their keeps. Mage guards used to be really strong and have a large and quite dangerous ground aoe as well as negate. The guards have been toned down and nerfed so much if you nerf them more it's pointless to even have them.

JayKwellen

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

The guards were originally designed to aid the underpopulated factions in defending their keeps. Mage guards used to be really strong and have a large and quite dangerous ground aoe as well as negate. The guards have been toned down and nerfed so much if you need them more it's pointless to even have them.

Yup. They're already speed bumps for anyone with enough damage, and might as well not even be there for anyone else.

If anything I thing the guards should be more dynamic and stronger. The lower your alliances population is in comparison to the others or the highest population alliance, the stronger the guards should get. Let the people who wanna PvDoor at 3AM have to actually work for it.

Hell when it gets down to one alliance being completely gated Grand Warlord Sorcalin and the other alliances boss people should come down with an honor guard and start curb stomping people until the inner keeps are back, or the tri-keeps if the scrolls are gone. Have em pick up volendrung and just go off even.

milllaurie

JayKwellen wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

The guards were originally designed to aid the underpopulated factions in defending their keeps. Mage guards used to be really strong and have a large and quite dangerous ground aoe as well as negate. The guards have been toned down and nerfed so much if you need them more it's pointless to even have them.

Yup. They're already speed bumps for anyone with enough damage, and might as well not even be there for anyone else.

If anything I thing the guards should be more dynamic and stronger. The lower your alliances population is in comparison to the others or the highest population alliance, the stronger the guards should get. Let the people who wanna PvDoor at 3AM have to actually work for it.

Hell when it gets down to one alliance being completely gated Grand Warlord Sorcalin and the other alliances boss people should come down with an honor guard and start curb stomping people until the inner keeps are back, or the tri-keeps if the scrolls are gone. Have em pick up volendrung and just go off even.

Dang maybe I have worded my post wrong but I have never complained about the STRENGTH of guards, I was just asking for their skills to follow current patch (e.g. Stunning frags or several stuns in a row without giving cc immunity).

Thunda

I also don't think the guards are too strong but a single NPC at a resource seems to have abilities across all the classes. For example some guards can each use Dragon Blood, Negates, Eclipse, and abilities that appear to cross other classes. Maybe I'm just seeing things but it seems like it would be more appropriate if guards could only use abilities similar to players based on class even if they are more powerful.

ThePianist

I think guards need a buff to be honest. Give them lanterns that automatically dispel stealth, have them patrolling walls or something.

I’ll be honest, I am guilty of trolling EP whenever I get inside one of their keeps, I’ll stay there for hours. I had a group that failed at taking KC but I did manage to stay inside the keep and kept flagging it from within over and over again. They had 3 bars but couldn’t push lmao.

Taking the lumber resource will weaken the doors, taking mine will weaken the walls and taking the farm will weaken the guards. Trust me, if your group goes deep behind enemy lines to capture a keep or distract the enemy, I suggest to always take the farm. It will weaken the guards. You can take the lumber to bring down doors faster but when there’s a small fight outside or inside, guards will spam negate bubbles.

There’s a well known necro ball group, I won’t say their name. But they’ve been taking advantage of the harmony builds (nerf necro please). So if they fail to take a keep, they’ll just turtle inside a tower and ulti-dump people. If there’s a situation like this, ignore the group and go re-capture your farm. Once the guards spawn, the guards will spam negate bubbles and it will be a wipe for the clown group or whatever group that is inside your castle/keep/fort.

Theignson

Guards exist in order to build Ulti !

JayKwellen

ThePianist wrote: »

Once the guards spawn, the guards will spam negate bubbles and it will be a wipe for the clown group or whatever group that is inside your castle/keep/fort.

That's why you just move out of the front towers which have guards on the top, bottom, and right outside, to the back towers that only have a single mage guard.

geonsocal

i pretty much never, ever check resource strength prior to capturing one - every once in a while though i'll go straight for the flag, do my thing, run out of gas from having to continually break free and boom - i'm dead...it helps to keep me humble in life...

relentless_turnip

I would like zos to do a test where they remove them. My lag around them is always much worse than just fighting players.

Fawn4287

Guards are a non issue for most cyro players since most people run in a large group, however me as a predominantly solo player find them so incredibly annoying like I think most other solos do. I actually find a resource of guards is equivalent to the damage and exponentially more debuffs and CCs than 2 low skill zerg players.

Sephyr

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I would like zos to do a test where they remove them. My lag around them is always much worse than just fighting players.

Sometimes I think that it's some of those outdated abilities that can cause some weirdness around them. I'm not sure if it's placebo or not, but hearing that someone else experiences lag around them... WELL...

milllaurie

Sephyr wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I would like zos to do a test where they remove them. My lag around them is always much worse than just fighting players.

Sometimes I think that it's some of those outdated abilities that can cause some weirdness around them. I'm not sure if it's placebo or not, but hearing that someone else experiences lag around them... WELL...

When the lag starts the first thing to start delaying is npc positioning. You can't hit them, they start teleporting back and forth.
Gatehouses and walls start having delays too. They get stuck at 0hp for a few seconds before opening.
Siege weapons also start behaving as npcs and having delays on firing.
I also noticed that the laggier it gets the more cc npcs fire. Might just be my annoyance but it sure seems like it.

finehair

JayKwellen wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

The guards were originally designed to aid the underpopulated factions in defending their keeps. Mage guards used to be really strong and have a large and quite dangerous ground aoe as well as negate. The guards have been toned down and nerfed so much if you need them more it's pointless to even have them.

Yup. They're already speed bumps for anyone with enough damage, and might as well not even be there for anyone else.

If anything I thing the guards should be more dynamic and stronger. The lower your alliances population is in comparison to the others or the highest population alliance, the stronger the guards should get. Let the people who wanna PvDoor at 3AM have to actually work for it.

Hell when it gets down to one alliance being completely gated Grand Warlord Sorcalin and the other alliances boss people should come down with an honor guard and start curb stomping people until the inner keeps are back, or the tri-keeps if the scrolls are gone. Have em pick up volendrung and just go off even.

Love the idea. Grand Sorclord Waralin rushes to the temple with the honor guard to lay down some beating on the PVD people.
Or general Zimmerman with the 2 named guards that constantly run around the Morrowind gate comes down to Farragut to take sweet vengeance upon the enemy with an npc zerg that spams chains, negates and bubbles all around.
Also they should have a camp that constantly spawns more npc guard, alongside few scout npc that lays down even more camps around.
We had our fun wrecking mindless npc, now it's their turn and we, the players, gotta stack in one faction against them.

vesselwiththepestle

In case you haven't noticed, there will be finally fixes to the CC and abilities of the Guards! It's in the current PTS Patch Notes. Yeeha!

xylena_lazarow

Can we just get rid of that old version of Eclipse they use that reflects your own attacks on you?

DrSlaughtr

My only issue is that they don't follow the same rules as players. They use class skills from multiple classes. They mix mag and stam attacks. They have endless resources. They auto heal if you are hitting from long range.

Other than that, archers are the most egregious as far as damage. They can one shot some players.

Sephyr

milllaurie wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I would like zos to do a test where they remove them. My lag around them is always much worse than just fighting players.

Sometimes I think that it's some of those outdated abilities that can cause some weirdness around them. I'm not sure if it's placebo or not, but hearing that someone else experiences lag around them... WELL...

When the lag starts the first thing to start delaying is npc positioning. You can't hit them, they start teleporting back and forth.
Gatehouses and walls start having delays too. They get stuck at 0hp for a few seconds before opening.
Siege weapons also start behaving as npcs and having delays on firing.
I also noticed that the laggier it gets the more cc npcs fire. Might just be my annoyance but it sure seems like it.

I noticed that about the gatehouses. If there's also an intense fight going on near them, I've also seen them lag when being repaired enough where people can get through. I haven't had them teleport on me (yet), but I don't doubt it happens.

milllaurie

TheEndBringer wrote: »

My only issue is that they don't follow the same rules as players. They use class skills from multiple classes. They mix mag and stam attacks. They have endless resources. They auto heal if you are hitting from long range.

Other than that, archers are the most egregious as far as damage. They can one shot some players.

Good old negate - chains and 100% coag combo...

L_Nici

You forgot D Swings that launch you to space.

Asardes

PVP is usually very laggy, but those guards are the cherry on the cake. Sometimes it takes 3 full seconds for cast time skills to work against them. I once soloed a resource and Dizzying Swing was hanging like hell, and the guards where rubber banding over the tower. It felt horrible and I almost died a few times because of health/skills desync.

Cirantille

L_Nici wrote: »

You forgot D Swings that launch you to space.

If only they launch into space...

I get launched into walls

* furious /stuck *

geonsocal

well, glad to know i'm not the only one they drive crazy at times

i've started counting the number of eclipses that hit me soloing a resource from start to finish, it''s usually about five or six...add in another one or two negates, maybe a chain, and at least twice have a flag guard go from almost dead to full health...

seriously, cuz it's useful to build towards pvp survival and sustain, and not always dps, it can be a challenge...obviously my more dps oriented characters have a way easier time clearing resources - it can be a painful experience on a tank, more than once i've had guards start re-appearing around the resource...

and, if you're not built to burn away an aoe area - and you don't watch your aggro, you can get swarmed by like 8 guard/workers at a time