Champion Points feel very unrewarding.

Sililos

Its been awhile since i used the only system so cant remember really what it was like, In this new system however it seems like you need a whole lot of points for almost no benefit and what you do get doesn't feel like it gives any noticeable improvement.

The average is what? 10 points required for a stage that you are lucky to get anything of value for.
30 levels for an extra 2% damage for example.
150 levels to unblock one of the 50 point traits and its effect is to do almost nothing.

Can we please get some kind of system with tangible responses too our choices?
CP is not an enjoyable gameplay mechanic unless you already have a thousand or so points to work with etc, I dont even bother applying my points when i get them, from time to time I may look in (once every 2-3 days) and apply the small number, shrug at how mediocre the improvement is and move on.

YstradClud

I was just thinking today as I looked around and seen all the people with so many differing levels of CP how widely spread the player base are now in terms of these levels and wondering how much of a difference it makes.

I personally don't worry too much about it. I think my main character is only at about 900 CP atm and seems to be left behind compared to a lot of other folks. Still have yet to see anyone anywhere near 3600 CP though.

Sililos

Im only at 508 myself, running content i get about 3-4 levels a day, dont have the patience to spend entire days just grinding dolmens endlessly in one zone. Between me and say a 900, i dont really see any real difference but some of that could be due to play style, i think it takes about 1000 - 1500 levels difference to really notice the gap (Outside of PvP.... although a 100 in PvP played badly with the right skills can still take out a 1500 with the wrong skills played well)

Levels feel like a lot of work, even when grinding, especially when grinding so for me its a bit demoralizing getting what feels like nothing back from my efforts.

Wolfenbelle

I think the previous CP system was far superior to this new version. I don't know why ZOS changed to this new system, but it was a poor decision in my opinion. Maybe it was ZOS' way of refreshing the game, but it just seems like change for change's sake instead of adding something really useful and interesting to the game.

The new version is way too complicated and like the OP says, you have to invest far too many points for little reward.

I especially dislike the fact that you have to slot some stars to activate them, and only four per constellation. That means a lot of stars are not usable, but the way you have to get to some of the more useful ones is you first have to spend points in stars you might not really want to use.

Abigail

Champion Points as of now: a really miniscule carrot dangling from a mile-long stick.

xeNNNNN

Abigail wrote: »

Champion Points as of now: a really miniscule carrot dangling from a mile-long stick.

That carrot is also extremely small.

ectoplasmicninja

I like having more places to put my points, but I don't like that the actual reality is having to choose four low percentage bonuses out of twenty low percentage bonuses. Either make me really lean into specialising for big boosts or let me get smaller boosts across a wide range. As it is I just feel constrained by these small increases and only four slots.

SaucyMcSauceface

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Abigail wrote: »

Champion Points as of now: a really miniscule carrot dangling from a mile-long stick.

That carrot is also extremely small.

Yep, that "miniscule" carrot is also "extremely small"....

SaucyMcSauceface

Seriously though, totally agree. I have stopped assigning CP because it seems entirely pointless. There are some nice elements of the new system, but the way it has been structured is daft.

Casdha

I think I'm up to 30 or so that I haven't even bother to assign yet.

edit: and that is on my main I bet it is around a 100 or so on other characters,,,, I don't know I haven't looked in a while.

edit 2: most of the new ones are useless to me because I will never slot anything different than what I use right now. If I want to fill an new roll I log in with a different character and their points are spent in different places.

Ashtaris

I’ve been having the same thoughts since the new CP system came out. Really what it comes down to is that their are too many slotables and not enough passives. Except for the Crafting tree, most people are not going to move their slotable’s around for combat unless they are a top level raid group that wants to optimize for every trial scenario. The rest of us just pick four slots for our combat and the rest are just waisted. I’m already at 1700 CP and really don’t care about leveling more points because.....what’s the point?

Supertonicbaker

I concur with the sentiments of this council.

Hotdog_23

Ashtaris wrote: »

I’ve been having the same thoughts since the new CP system came out. Really what it comes down to is that their are too many slotables and not enough passives. Except for the Crafting tree, most people are not going to move their slotable’s around for combat unless they are a top level raid group that wants to optimize for every trial scenario. The rest of us just pick four slots for our combat and the rest are just waisted. I’m already at 1700 CP and really don’t care about leveling more points because.....what’s the point?

Agree except for the dang green tree. Over 2300 cp now and I have 150-200 unused in the other trees but starved in the green tree.

Stay safe

ADarklore

As others have mentioned... the problem with CP is that you reach a point where there are no FREE passives anymore... they're all slot-required passives. You can only have four, and most people will not change those four, so you basically have useless CP at that point. ZOS definitely NEEDS TO convert many of those 'slot-required' passives to FREE passives, otherwise some players will quit because there is no longer any meaningful character progression.

Artanisul

ADarklore wrote: »

As others have mentioned... the problem with CP is that you reach a point where there are no FREE passives anymore... they're all slot-required passives. You can only have four, and most people will not change those four, so you basically have useless CP at that point. ZOS definitely NEEDS TO convert many of those 'slot-required' passives to FREE passives, otherwise some players will quit because there is no longer any meaningful character progression.

I am at 700 or so and see the point in the quoted thread. I think they believe that "focus switching" like from AOE to single target is what some people do. Even given if someone was to be that driven, the cap is SOO very far above what is needed for that.

Slotted abilities should not be of the % damage sort. It should be those odd ball "gain x enhancement when doing y maneuver."

NylAR

I've not even spent a single point of CP yet ever since the new system came out. Just find 0 necessity of it. Which was kind of the point of the new system I believe.

I still don't understand why didn't they just completely remove it from the game and just keep the craft bonuses all as passives in a new system.

jenwa72ab14_ESO

I don't understand people thinking CP does nothing and don't use it. There's plenty of good places to put points into for quite a while.

lemonizzle

Just as many other decision in the game's history, it seems like it was made by people who don't even play their own game properly. Like a chef who "knows the recipe" and disregards the complaints of customers who find it over salted or burnt. Or more accurately: does not respond, then next day proceeds to change the recipe of vanilla pudding dessert to include Carolina Reaper peppers.

whitecrow

With 1400 points I was able to fill up quite a few when they implemented it, but as I open up new stars it really seems like a crawl. And why do some require 15 and others 75 or 32? I'd really like to know how they decided on these numbers.

I too hate the slots. In real life skills don't turn on and off, well unless you don't use them for a long time...

Urvoth

Zos squandered the opportunity to rework the cp system into something meaningful with real horizontal progression. Once you max out the passives and fully unlock your 4 active nodes, the system has effectively been finished on your character, and pretty much everyone who has regularly played the game for awhile is at this point.

I really wish they tried to at least add some innovative, real horizontal progression options to the system instead of just rehashing a worse version of what we had before. New color options for abilities (like red lighting for sorc instead of blue for example), 3rd class morphs, new dyes, skins, furnishings, etc. would have been much better forms of horizontal progression.

Personally, I would’ve liked if they were able to tie it in with the old spell crafting system zos has discussed awhile back. For example, maybe you unlock the ability to craft a new spell at cp 1000 and cp 2000. It could be limited to these unlocks so characters can only run the max of two at once, helping balance. It would even be great just to be able to modify an existing class skill as part of the system and zos wouldn’t have to add a whole new suite of skills. For example, it could be something simple like adding an execute functionality to a class skill, or making the skill proc a status effect.

itscompton

Ashtaris wrote: »

I’ve been having the same thoughts since the new CP system came out. Really what it comes down to is that their are too many slotables and not enough passives. Except for the Crafting tree, most people are not going to move their slotable’s around for combat unless they are a top level raid group that wants to optimize for every trial scenario. The rest of us just pick four slots for our combat and the rest are just waisted. I’m already at 1700 CP and really don’t care about leveling more points because.....what’s the point?

I feel that way at 1400. I have a few passives in the red and green trees that aren't quite totally filled out but none of what they do will improve the experience of playing my characters.
For example I can up the damage of bash slightly but Zos ruined my mist tank with the no HP regen and my other characters bashing enemies that have between 30K and 3 million health for 250 extra damage is laughable.
In the green tree I've got a few passives left that will net me more gold or reduce the cost of wayshrines. The only reason those are left undone is the incredibly tedious and cp expensive route you have to take to get up to the active that does away with stamina cost for riding out of combat.

Sylosi

I find the new CP system way better.

I much prefer how they separated out all the crafting, gathering, etc into one tree, because now there is no conflict between what I want for combat and what I want for crafting, gathering, etc. So to take one example on the old CP tree the passive for increased quality of items in treasure chests was 75 into one of the green trees that I had little use for on many magcika builds, so basically couldn't take it on a lot of builds, the new system solves that.

I also think limiting it to 4 active slots is a good thing bearing in mind they removed the 810 CP limit, it helps reduce the power creep of 3600cp(?) max, which is good for the health of the game.

Lastly I find the notion of the reward for higher CP to be able to tinker with or switch builds easily pretty nice.

ArgonianAustin

YstradClud wrote: »

I was just thinking today as I looked around and seen all the people with so many differing levels of CP how widely spread the player base are now in terms of these levels and wondering how much of a difference it makes.

I personally don't worry too much about it. I think my main character is only at about 900 CP atm and seems to be left behind compared to a lot of other folks. Still have yet to see anyone anywhere near 3600 CP though.

On PlayStation i saw a cp 3006, i wonder if he has everything maxed.

Wolfster

Yep.

The old system was bad because the power creep was too severe and they had to cap progress to stop some players from just trivialising the hardest content in the game.

This system, more than 50% of the earnable points aren't even worth earning. Really just a complete waste of what could have been a great system for small incremental improvement.

Max out the four combat stars you wanna slot and you've basically won at CP. No real incentive to chase the rest. So what, 600-800 points is the sweet spot.

Wolfster

ZOS have made some really bad gameplay design choices lately.

CP revamp. Putting possibly the most highly desirable item in the game in harvesting nodes that players have to compete for.

Really this is some regressive stuff that a game design student should know to avoid. Whoever is green lighting these decisions needs to take a look at their choices and well... just do better. ZOS should be embarrassed.

Baconlad

I think most of you guys forget or don't know the point of the cp system.

It was supposed to be a complete revamp of the Never ending vet rank system. Every expac we were supposed to get two new vet ranks. And gear would be capped at that new rank. It led to mass irritation when you have to farm the exact same gear and gold it out every three months.

So they scrapped it, at only three increases or VR 16. CP system replaced that horrible system. The goal was to gain miniscule increases in power with an ultimate cap. Problem being was that the cap was rediculous. 3600 I think it was, and you could get every single point and passive in the system. It was a failure, although still better than the outgoing system. They began to implement caps every couple hundred CP. New xpac brought a new cap raise. But if you were above the cap you immediatly got new passives, while new players got further behind every patch. That was a problem. So they gave us a indefinite cap, 810. And it sucked. No new increases, huge cost to change around CP.

This new system...while it feels unrewarded solves every issue they had before.

-new players aren't left out more each patch. They're on the same level if they start today or six months from now.

-there is an ultimate cap, although you are incentivised to keep gaining champ points for different roles. Let's say you max all passives in blue tree, now you have four slottables that you have for a current build. But you can continue to gain levels to have the option of swapping for PvP or PvE. you now get to have both builds without having to respec, you just have to swap around swappable.

-due to the system being such miniscule gains, the power creep is still very small. And at a certain point you gain no more power creep through CP.

Its a very thoughtful system. I disagree with small aspects of it. But its better than the alternative of not having the system at all. Personally I would like to see less breakup between the slottables. There two crit damage stars, and FIVE damage type stars and two weapon damage stars. Its too much I think. Frustrates me when I can't have all damage passives! Still...

Remember the system was always supposed to be miniscule gains...still is and really isn't that big of a deal.

disintegr8

My main beef with the change is the green tree and what to do with it once you've 'completed' your characters. I have 16 characters who are all level 50 in all crafting lines and all are at least 8 trait crafters (the last 2 are on their way). What do I do with the green tree?

And for the others, insufficient passives and too many that need slotting. For someone like me it's far easier to assign different characters for different content than to switch CP skills on the same character. I'd hate to be doing different content (PVE, PVP, open world, vet trials, etc.), or different roles on the one character.

tim99

The first version of cp2.0 wasn't so bad at the end, the second is just garbage.
Green tree felt in both version like just trolling the players.

So much people were complaining about the green tree... and they changed.... the red and blue.

Guess the real nerf this patch was aiming for gaming fun.

ThorianB

They replaced a terrible leveling system with an even worse leveling system. I was hoping for something different not something more watered down.

Supreme_Atromancer

@Baconlad @Sylosi

Baconlad wrote: »

-there is an ultimate cap, although you are incentivised to keep gaining champ points for different roles. Let's say you max all passives in blue tree, now you have four slottables that you have for a current build. But you can continue to gain levels to have the option of swapping for PvP or PvE. you now get to have both builds without having to respec, you just have to swap around swappable.

But the system is made in ignorance of how the game is actually played. Those of us who do different roles on the same character can't really achieve this horizontal flexibility without respeccing anyway. I reach enough cp to get 4 passives as a healer main, and if I want to do damage, I must respec. I earn enough cp to gain another passive. But I STILL have to respec because I don't have the other passives for good damage in content. So that's 50 points of this amazing horizontal progress that is meaningless, because I will still be paying the same fee. What happens when I've earned 100 points beyond the softcap? Still the same, because I'm no more flexible with all this extra cp I've earned. In fact, beyond the soft cap, no progress is in the least bit meaningful because I could always just respec anyway for the small fee that everyone has been paying forever anyhow, and this wont really go away for some alternate particular spec until you've earned enough cp to slot 4 new passives. So where are these horizons I'm meant to be progressing into?

Sylosi wrote: »

it helps reduce the power creep of 3600cp(?) max, which is good for the health of the game.

Its a very thoughtful system.

I strongly disagree. While they've achieved the (important) aim of bounding power, they've done it by butchering any sense of progress after the soft cap is reached, and replacing it with massive, artificial sinks and champion point taxes, ensuring big quantities of the points you've earned are negated.

The concept of horizontal progression is a fantastic idea, - I, too, don't want a system where the power gap is so great and daunting that new players have a ridiculous amount of grind to do before we can play together. But the designers were not able to come up with thoughtful ways for horizontal progress or build diversity with the system. They're saying "horizontal progression" but really just finding sneaky ways to sink out our champion points.

So which part is the well thought out part? Did they carefully consider the amount of grind needed when they did 2.0? Did they consider the levels of power the were giving players with 2.0 as a good amount to have? If it was well thought out, how come they were taking it all back so rapidly, just a few small months later? Was that amount of power suddenly wrong? No, it really does read like they're throwing *** at the wall and looking at what sticks. That's not well thought out. The premise is great, the execution is really, really messy.

But its better than the alternative of not having the system at all.

Isn't that a false dichotomy? Why are there only two alternatives: a *** system or no system?

xeNNNNN

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Abigail wrote: »

Champion Points as of now: a really miniscule carrot dangling from a mile-long stick.

That carrot is also extremely small.

Yep, that "miniscule" carrot is also "extremely small"....

My point was its even smaller than miniscule lol