Diamond's Victory proves the 5% Skill Cost on NMA pointless!

StarOfElyon

Why have a set as powerful as Diamond's Victory with such an easy proc condition while forcing such a terrible penalty on New Moon Acolyte which offers less in total power already? Remove the 5% additional Skill Cost, please.

Urzigurumash

My thoughts exactly. I would say buff NMA back to its old values, comparing it to Clever or Air.

Also, can we get 2 piece Potatoes back at 5%?

Fennwitty

New expansion: Set overpowered.
Next expansion: Suddenly a need to 'balance' previous sets.

twing1_

Tbh, diamonds victory is a lot more situational of a set. Not every class/build can use it effectively, especially with a duration as short as 5 seconds. It is also a lot more limited in the types of attacks the weapon/Spell Damage bonus applies to. Because of this, most heals will not see the benefit of diamonds victory, while NMA boosts everything, heals included.

I don't see a problem with diamonds victory being numerically a bit stronger than NMA, even without the cost increase.

Firstmep

twing1_ wrote: »

Tbh, diamonds victory is a lot more situational of a set. Not every class/build can use it effectively, especially with a duration as short as 5 seconds. It is also a lot more limited in the types of attacks the weapon/Spell Damage bonus applies to. Because of this, most heals will not see the benefit of diamonds victory, while NMA boosts everything, heals included.

I don't see a problem with diamonds victory being numerically a bit stronger than NMA, even without the cost increase.

Pretty much this. It doesn't affect heals.
Same reason why sets like war maiden provide a higher bonus as well.
New moon has no condition whatsoever and affect everything that scales with weapon or spell damage including heals.

WrathOfInnos

DV is well balanced. It gives the same damage as Mother’s Sorrow on body, just nice that you can run it front bar (paired with something like Bahsei) and carry over to back. You do have to work a little to keep both buffs active, but that is an appropriate price for the benefit.

NMA is a joke currently, 101 more Spell Damage than Julianos does not justify a 5% cost increase to all skills, including ultimates. It was completely fine at 481, and was only popular then because pFGD had good stat density and negated the cost increase.

Stevie6

The nerfbat is on the way! Alcast made a video on DV and said as much. Might as well not bother with crafting it only to get a hefty nerf in a couple of months. ESO should be called Trash Sets Online. The devs should buff the older sets and make them great again…lol.

Can’t have the casual peasants have anything nice…please nerf it tomorrow and put an end to it.

LightYagami

Stevie6 wrote: »

The nerfbat is on the way! Alcast made a video on DV and said as much. Might as well not bother with crafting it only to get a hefty nerf in a couple of months. ESO should be called Trash Sets Online. The devs should buff the older sets and make them great again…lol.

Can’t have the casual peasants have anything nice…please nerf it tomorrow and put an end to it.

I watched the video too. Even light attacks can proc the set... It's ridiculously OP...

hands0medevil

but NMA is in the past, it is already done, played it's role, boosted DLC sales, now you need to move on, buy next chapter for similar set, just a little bit more op

It's like asking car dealer for pimping your old ride when they try to sell their new cars

Alcast

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Why have a set as powerful as Diamond's Victory with such an easy proc condition while forcing such a terrible penalty on New Moon Acolyte which offers less in total power already? Remove the 5% additional Skill Cost, please.

Lets see where this set is in 1-2 patches. That is why I tell players to be cautious golding it out. It will most likely get "adjusted".

I think ZOS is happy how New Moon performs, that is also why I think it is more likely that DV will get nerfed rather than NM getting buffed in the future.

https://eso-hub.com/en/sets/new-moon-acolyte
https://eso-hub.com/en/sets/diamonds-victory

Stx

I've looked at the chart showing what procs this set and I disagree that it needs a nerf. It will be good for classes that can easily proc both conditions with a normal rotation. But this set won't be good for some classes especially stamina, and it also isn't going to be a good set for content that requires movement or frequent breaks in your rotation.

katorga

Stevie6 wrote: »

The nerfbat is on the way! Alcast made a video on DV and said as much. Might as well not bother with crafting it only to get a hefty nerf in a couple of months. ESO should be called Trash Sets Online. The devs should buff the older sets and make them great again…lol.

Can’t have the casual peasants have anything nice…please nerf it tomorrow and put an end to it.

Streamers gonna hype things to get views. The set is average.

Ippokrates

DV is much more complicated to use than NMA, which offer boost 24/7. And TBH only some builds like magplars, magblade & magDK (armed with staffs not daggers) & magsorc/magcro&stamcro (daggers + crystal shards/skull or blasty) can use it with reasonable 90%+ uptime. Warden is probably in the worst place, cause it will lose to much benefits using its spammable in close range...

So I don't really know what they want to nerf. And if they nerf it after a month or two, and I will lose all that gold tempers I have used... well, another straw to do not extend ESO+, cause with all that bugs & unexpexted maintenances, this game is going... nowhere.

YandereGirlfriend

katorga wrote: »

Stevie6 wrote: »

The nerfbat is on the way! Alcast made a video on DV and said as much. Might as well not bother with crafting it only to get a hefty nerf in a couple of months. ESO should be called Trash Sets Online. The devs should buff the older sets and make them great again…lol.

Can’t have the casual peasants have anything nice…please nerf it tomorrow and put an end to it.

Streamers gonna hype things to get views. The set is average.

Indeed.

I hate seeing click-bait content intended to get things nerfed.

Most pitch-forks wielders don't even know how the set works or its rather consequential limitations.

The comparison to NMA is not a good one.

Lughlongarm

NMA and DV are not really comparable in my opinion. NMA is much more suited to PvP needs, its an equip and forget set, boost both damage and healing.

DV feels more like a PVE set, you need to paly this proc mini game and it doesn't boost heals.

But even in High level PVE what set would you replace for DV? A trail set? a back bone set like mother's sorrow? I'm not sure this set got even a room in the end game PVE meta.

If it will destroy the damage charts, sure. You can give it small nerf by adding 1 sec CD on procs(active 4 sec and can proc on 5 sec CD, or you can't poc both the range and the melee buffs together, or something like that).

If it doesn't replace anything in the end game PVE meta, just let it be. It helps new players to catch up with decent gear for their first trials and veterans arenas.

Regarding this set being OP to sell blackwood copies, its not a great argument. As a crafted set, this set is available to anyone. You get get your hands on this set in various ways if you don't have blackwood.

Ippokrates

Lughlongarm wrote: »

NMA and DV are not really comparable in my opinion. NMA is much more suited to PvP needs, its an equip and forget set, boost both damage and healing.

DV feels more like a PVE set, you need to paly this proc mini game and it doesn't boost heals.

But even in High level PVE what set would you replace for DV? A trail set? a back bone set like mother's sorrow? I'm not sure this set got even a room in the end game PVE meta.

If it will destroy the damage charts, sure. You can give it small nerf by adding 1 sec CD on procs(active 4 sec and can proc on 5 sec CD, or you can't poc both the range and the melee buffs together, or something like that).

If it doesn't replace anything in the end game PVE meta, just let it be. It helps new players to catch up with decent gear for their first trials and veterans arenas.

Regarding this set being OP to sell blackwood copies, its not a great argument. As a crafted set, this set is available to anyone. You get get your hands on this set in various ways if you don't have blackwood.

I think it has a place in *meta universe*, especially in current proc sets situation. I am using it on my Magplar and thanks to DV I can reach 100% Zaan (although Dragonstar infused Staff & Willpower infused jewelry are giving me more SD than DV. Each ^^).

However, trial sets would always have advantage in form of a minor slayer, so DV even if used, would always have a place of secondary set. Especially in a situation when you have to carefully planned & maintain rotation (mainly on stam builds) to keep the buff.

Everest_Lionheart

I’ve only tried it parsing on magblade so far and there is definitely a power difference. The set is easy enough to proc both conditions if you can comfortably weave ele weapon with dual daggers and get off your back bar quickly. I have only paired this set with Medusa so far and hit 85K on the first try. 84.5 with the flame staff on the second.

I find the set easier to use and more reliable than acuity on the condition that you are comfortable weaving daggers plus ele weapon and bar swapping often which when compared to NMA comes with a higher skill level needed to run. As far as crafted sets goes though for those that can do the above things it’s head and shoulders above the rest.

And as a crafted set that has the potential to actually raise the floor I am all for it. Julianos and Acuity had their time and it’s nice to see new sets with boosts to all character types and play styles.

StarOfElyon

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Why have a set as powerful as Diamond's Victory with such an easy proc condition while forcing such a terrible penalty on New Moon Acolyte which offers less in total power already? Remove the 5% additional Skill Cost, please.

A reminder that this isn't a "nerf Diamond's Victory" thread. It will be nerfed when the next set ZOS wants to sell comes along anyway. I just want to be able to use NMA on my hybrids without that extremely punishing 5% cost increase.

milllaurie

StarOfElyon wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Why have a set as powerful as Diamond's Victory with such an easy proc condition while forcing such a terrible penalty on New Moon Acolyte which offers less in total power already? Remove the 5% additional Skill Cost, please.

A reminder that this isn't a "nerf Diamond's Victory" thread. It will be nerfed when the next set ZOS wants to sell comes along anyway. I just want to be able to use NMA on my hybrids without that extremely punishing 5% cost increase.

Where would that leave sets like automaton? Trash damage on a specific type of damage?
By removing 5% from NMA they should look at automaton, swamp raider, etc.
Too much work for zos.

WrathOfInnos

StarOfElyon wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Why have a set as powerful as Diamond's Victory with such an easy proc condition while forcing such a terrible penalty on New Moon Acolyte which offers less in total power already? Remove the 5% additional Skill Cost, please.

A reminder that this isn't a "nerf Diamond's Victory" thread. It will be nerfed when the next set ZOS wants to sell comes along anyway. I just want to be able to use NMA on my hybrids without that extremely punishing 5% cost increase.

TBH I don’t mind the cost increase, it makes the set unique. The problem is that the power level does not offset this curse.

To be more specific, 5% cost increase negates 5/6 or 83% of a 5pc bonus (Alteration Mastery or Battlefield Acrobat), therefore to be balanced it would need to give 183% of a standard 5pc in damage. This could be 300 x 1.83 = 549 Weapon/Spell Damage (might be a little strong for burst in practice).

Alternatively we could look at its current power level and determine how much cost increase is justified. It gives 401/300 = 134% of a standard 5pc set. So that extra 34% of a 5pc would justify a curse equal to 34% of a 6% cost increase, or 2% cost on all abilities.

Another idea would be to make it only affect Stamina/Magicka costs (not ultimates or health). Then 5% would only be 50% of Seducer 5pc. This would mean the NMA 5pc could be 300 x 1.5 = 450 Weapon/Spell Damage.

If it did not increase ultimate/health costs (only stam and mag), and kept the current 401 Weapon/Spell Damage on the 5pc, then the appropriate cost increase would be 3%.

Luckylancer

In worst case scenario they will nerf it asap.
In best case scenario they will nerf it the release patch of next expansion.
After the nerf, set will be useless.

Thats how ZoS works.

Stx

The cost increase to nma shouldn't be removed that's crazy talk.. it could be buffed though.. 4% or maybe even 3%. NMA is good not just because the 5 pc is 400 damage compared to hundings 300, but because it has better 2-4 bonuses too. 3% cost increase might make NMA too good but I'm certainly not a math expert.

Tommy_The_Gun

NMA nerf is the reason why I don't even bother with newer sets. It is just a matter of trust. And obviously, new set is going to be nerfed soon I guess. ZOS puts so much effort into their "standardization" that it is almost laughable. Like that time they buffed Draugr Hulk, then a patch later they nerfed it, and oddly buffed Shacklebreaker... I mean maybe there is some kind of logic behind it, but from a perspective of a player, those changes seems chaotic, almost as if devs did not had a plan or vision what to do and they change things on the fly. I mean, if they made some kind of "standardization" to act as a guideline for balancing stuff, then they should keep everything on a certain level, right ? But it seems their "standardization" changes every patch lol.

WrathOfInnos

Stx wrote: »

NMA is good not just because the 5 pc is 400 damage compared to hundings 300, but because it has better 2-4 bonuses too.

That’s debatable. I agree the 2-4 piece bonuses beat Hundings/Julianos for PvP. In organized PvE groups the 2 crit bonuses are better than overpenetration.

iksde

twing1_ wrote: »

Tbh, diamonds victory is a lot more situational of a set. Not every class/build can use it effectively, especially with a duration as short as 5 seconds. It is also a lot more limited in the types of attacks the weapon/Spell Damage bonus applies to. Because of this, most heals will not see the benefit of diamonds victory, while NMA boosts everything, heals included.

I don't see a problem with diamonds victory being numerically a bit stronger than NMA, even without the cost increase.

and so we can say is situational and the best only for nb acuity set

situational is mother sorrow with medusa combo set on crit classes as on backbar you will ahve to big loss from 1 set having only on frontbar as universal BSW will be working on backbar when procced from front like siroria

situational and only for dk is elfbane - for short fights this set would be nonsense

situational are catalyst for necro and Z'en for dk - to buff raid group, not much of use of these sets for solo or to buff just single other dd in group

all of these sets are more or less situational and all of them also are not for every class

yet this diamonds victory can be used well for every class, also more or less situation but for everyone
we know now how mag classes can use also melee weapons - so use daggers and here we go with 100% uptime of this set
or class which is already spamming melee skill? use staff and still 100% uptime

I wont say to much only abot stam builds right now but I guess for most it wont be such big problem either to be viable for every class and have sense in using it for everyone, not like using elfbane outside magdk or acuity which is perfect for nb to land his burst with ult while procced set but for rest classes wont give that much power

WrathOfInnos

iksde wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Tbh, diamonds victory is a lot more situational of a set. Not every class/build can use it effectively, especially with a duration as short as 5 seconds. It is also a lot more limited in the types of attacks the weapon/Spell Damage bonus applies to. Because of this, most heals will not see the benefit of diamonds victory, while NMA boosts everything, heals included.

I don't see a problem with diamonds victory being numerically a bit stronger than NMA, even without the cost increase.

and so we can say is situational and the best only for nb acuity set

situational is mother sorrow with medusa combo set on crit classes as on backbar you will ahve to big loss from 1 set having only on frontbar as universal BSW will be working on backbar when procced from front like siroria

situational and only for dk is elfbane - for short fights this set would be nonsense

situational are catalyst for necro and Z'en for dk - to buff raid group, not much of use of these sets for solo or to buff just single other dd in group

all of these sets are more or less situational and all of them also are not for every class

yet this diamonds victory can be used well for every class, also more or less situation but for everyone
we know now how mag classes can use also melee weapons - so use daggers and here we go with 100% uptime of this set
or class which is already spamming melee skill? use staff and still 100% uptime

I wont say to much only abot stam builds right now but I guess for most it wont be such big problem either to be viable for every class and have sense in using it for everyone, not like using elfbane outside magdk or acuity which is perfect for nb to land his burst with ult while procced set but for rest classes wont give that much power

Sure, 100% uptime on both buffs is possible, but that doesn’t make it too powerful. Plenty of sets have 100% uptime.

Looking at it from a PVE perspective. 437 Weapon or Spell Damage results in ~5.4% DPS, which falls right between the 5pc strength of Mother’s Sorrow (typically 4.9 to 5.2%) and Medusa (5.6 to 6%). It’s weaker than Siroria or Bahsei with mediocre uptimes, and far behind most Stamina DPS sets (Kinra, Advancing Yokeda, Deadly, Tzogvin, Relequen, etc.)

carlos424

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Why have a set as powerful as Diamond's Victory with such an easy proc condition while forcing such a terrible penalty on New Moon Acolyte which offers less in total power already? Remove the 5% additional Skill Cost, please.

You know that will never happen. Instead, they will simply nerf Diamonds Victory.

iksde

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Tbh, diamonds victory is a lot more situational of a set. Not every class/build can use it effectively, especially with a duration as short as 5 seconds. It is also a lot more limited in the types of attacks the weapon/Spell Damage bonus applies to. Because of this, most heals will not see the benefit of diamonds victory, while NMA boosts everything, heals included.

I don't see a problem with diamonds victory being numerically a bit stronger than NMA, even without the cost increase.

and so we can say is situational and the best only for nb acuity set

situational is mother sorrow with medusa combo set on crit classes as on backbar you will ahve to big loss from 1 set having only on frontbar as universal BSW will be working on backbar when procced from front like siroria

situational and only for dk is elfbane - for short fights this set would be nonsense

situational are catalyst for necro and Z'en for dk - to buff raid group, not much of use of these sets for solo or to buff just single other dd in group

all of these sets are more or less situational and all of them also are not for every class

yet this diamonds victory can be used well for every class, also more or less situation but for everyone
we know now how mag classes can use also melee weapons - so use daggers and here we go with 100% uptime of this set
or class which is already spamming melee skill? use staff and still 100% uptime

I wont say to much only abot stam builds right now but I guess for most it wont be such big problem either to be viable for every class and have sense in using it for everyone, not like using elfbane outside magdk or acuity which is perfect for nb to land his burst with ult while procced set but for rest classes wont give that much power

Sure, 100% uptime on both buffs is possible, but that doesn’t make it too powerful. Plenty of sets have 100% uptime.

Looking at it from a PVE perspective. 437 Weapon or Spell Damage results in ~5.4% DPS, which falls right between the 5pc strength of Mother’s Sorrow (typically 4.9 to 5.2%) and Medusa (5.6 to 6%). It’s weaker than Siroria or Bahsei with mediocre uptimes, and far behind most Stamina DPS sets (Kinra, Advancing Yokeda, Deadly, Tzogvin, Relequen, etc.)

ofc it is weaker than siroria but it will have use when needs to be mobile where siroria would have barely use

mother sorrow with meduse will have good use if you can have 100% active both of them - so sacrifacing mosnter set or if staying significant most of the time on front bar where it will work for most time rarther than jsut half lets sa if you would swap weapons often or be often or backbar

and are you planning to be entire fight at around 10% of your max magica for use of bahsei?

WrathOfInnos

iksde wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Tbh, diamonds victory is a lot more situational of a set. Not every class/build can use it effectively, especially with a duration as short as 5 seconds. It is also a lot more limited in the types of attacks the weapon/Spell Damage bonus applies to. Because of this, most heals will not see the benefit of diamonds victory, while NMA boosts everything, heals included.

I don't see a problem with diamonds victory being numerically a bit stronger than NMA, even without the cost increase.

and so we can say is situational and the best only for nb acuity set

situational is mother sorrow with medusa combo set on crit classes as on backbar you will ahve to big loss from 1 set having only on frontbar as universal BSW will be working on backbar when procced from front like siroria

situational and only for dk is elfbane - for short fights this set would be nonsense

situational are catalyst for necro and Z'en for dk - to buff raid group, not much of use of these sets for solo or to buff just single other dd in group

all of these sets are more or less situational and all of them also are not for every class

yet this diamonds victory can be used well for every class, also more or less situation but for everyone
we know now how mag classes can use also melee weapons - so use daggers and here we go with 100% uptime of this set
or class which is already spamming melee skill? use staff and still 100% uptime

I wont say to much only abot stam builds right now but I guess for most it wont be such big problem either to be viable for every class and have sense in using it for everyone, not like using elfbane outside magdk or acuity which is perfect for nb to land his burst with ult while procced set but for rest classes wont give that much power

Sure, 100% uptime on both buffs is possible, but that doesn’t make it too powerful. Plenty of sets have 100% uptime.

Looking at it from a PVE perspective. 437 Weapon or Spell Damage results in ~5.4% DPS, which falls right between the 5pc strength of Mother’s Sorrow (typically 4.9 to 5.2%) and Medusa (5.6 to 6%). It’s weaker than Siroria or Bahsei with mediocre uptimes, and far behind most Stamina DPS sets (Kinra, Advancing Yokeda, Deadly, Tzogvin, Relequen, etc.)

ofc it is weaker than siroria but it will have use when needs to be mobile where siroria would have barely use

mother sorrow with meduse will have good use if you can have 100% active both of them - so sacrifacing mosnter set or if staying significant most of the time on front bar where it will work for most time rarther than jsut half lets sa if you would swap weapons often or be often or backbar

and are you planning to be entire fight at around 10% of your max magica for use of bahsei?

No, you don’t need good uptimes on perfect Siroria or Bahsei to beat DV. 5 stacks average of Siroria is all it takes to beat 100% DV, and both can easily be used front bar.

Bahsei doesn’t work well front bar, but it outperforms 100% DV at around 87% Magicka, not 10%. Beyond these there are numerous other options for front bar sets that are far better than DV, including crafted ones like Dragonguard Elite.

I do agree that Medusa is in a tough spot this patch. It doesn’t work well front bar, and you can’t body it with the kilt (would result in 4-1-2 armor weight, bad sustain, low crit, and lacking Spell Pen).

Bl4ckR3alm93

twing1_ wrote: »

Tbh, diamonds victory is a lot more situational of a set. Not every class/build can use it effectively, especially with a duration as short as 5 seconds. It is also a lot more limited in the types of attacks the weapon/Spell Damage bonus applies to. Because of this, most heals will not see the benefit of diamonds victory, while NMA boosts everything, heals included.

I don't see a problem with diamonds victory being numerically a bit stronger than NMA, even without the cost increase.

Yes especially for Mag Dragonknights! We need this because MagDK doesnt have any excutes STILL, no sustain, no good damage passives for things like crit, dmg, or minor sorcery. We have to rely on damage over time so Diamonds Victory helps with burning spellweave and other mag classes STILL outperform us without Diamonds Victory lol.

axi

The only thing with Diamond's Victory that needs to be looked at is that blastbones are proccing both effects. That is bananas.